Author Topic: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools  (Read 72846 times)

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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #450 on: June 01, 2015, 09:52:33 AM »
Or are you saying we can educate children without paying teachers (an idea I could get behind)?

You mean like slaves?

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #451 on: June 01, 2015, 10:19:37 AM »
That is not what I said.  I am describing why districts are reporting that they are feeling squeezed.  I am glad that the KPERS funding gap was closed.  I don't really have an opinion on what per-pupil spending should include, just that it should be consistent over time for comparisons sake.  I absolutely agree that it is "education spending" in the sense that someone, somewhere is paying for it and it is a benefit to teachers.

The post does a good job of explaining why, from a school district's budgeting perspective that is tangential.

Well, I'll agree with you that the post does a good job of explaining the absurd "reasoning" of the teachers' union. But they can't have their cake and eat it too - if the money is spent on teacher benefits, there's less money to spend on other things. (Actually, I guess they can have their cake and eat it too as long as they and the Supreme Court continue to pressure the legislature to spend ever growing gobs of cash on education, which is the whole point of this dishonest campaign.)
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #452 on: June 01, 2015, 10:21:53 AM »
Or are you saying we can educate children without paying teachers (an idea I could get behind)?

You mean like slaves?

I don't consider volunteers to be slaves, do you? Seriously though, I don't expect teachers to work for free, but they're laying on the irony a little thick complaining about funding "cuts" because more money was spent shoring up their pensions.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #453 on: June 01, 2015, 10:24:30 AM »
Or are you saying we can educate children without paying teachers (an idea I could get behind)?

You mean like slaves?

I don't consider volunteers to be slaves, do you? Seriously though, I don't expect teachers to work for free, but they're laying on the irony a little thick complaining about funding "cuts" because more money was spent shoring up their pensions.

I guess they should be happy that the state finally agreed to fund the pension program they agreed to fund when they took the job in the first place. That's basically the same thing as a raise.

Offline CNS

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #454 on: June 01, 2015, 10:25:11 AM »
Volunteers?  Oh man!

Offline ednksu

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #455 on: June 01, 2015, 11:07:37 AM »
Or are you saying we can educate children without paying teachers (an idea I could get behind)?

You mean like slaves?

I don't consider volunteers to be slaves, do you? Seriously though, I don't expect teachers to work for free, but they're laying on the irony a little thick complaining about funding "cuts" because more money was spent shoring up their pensions.

I guess they should be happy that the state finally agreed to fund the pension program they agreed to fund when they took the job in the first place. That's basically the same thing as a raise.

Yeah its times like this that KSUW makes it totally clear he has no rough ridin' clue what the facts are in this and he is flying as blind as a single issue voter.  He is probably worse than them on a theoretical level because they just lack knowledge whereas KSUW is willfully blinding himself for his partisan interests over the facts.
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Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #456 on: June 01, 2015, 11:21:21 AM »

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #457 on: June 01, 2015, 11:37:40 AM »
That is not what I said.  I am describing why districts are reporting that they are feeling squeezed.  I am glad that the KPERS funding gap was closed.  I don't really have an opinion on what per-pupil spending should include, just that it should be consistent over time for comparisons sake.  I absolutely agree that it is "education spending" in the sense that someone, somewhere is paying for it and it is a benefit to teachers.

The post does a good job of explaining why, from a school district's budgeting perspective that is tangential.

Well, I'll agree with you that the post does a good job of explaining the absurd "reasoning" of the teachers' union. But they can't have their cake and eat it too - if the money is spent on teacher benefits, there's less money to spend on other things. (Actually, I guess they can have their cake and eat it too as long as they and the Supreme Court continue to pressure the legislature to spend ever growing gobs of cash on education, which is the whole point of this dishonest campaign.)

1.  The link I posted was a response sent out by the central office of Kansas City, Kansas Public Schools (KCKPS).  Consider it to be the words of the superintendent's office.  That is the chief representative that a teacher's union would bargain with (against/in opposition to) to determine the benefits/salary working conditions within a district.

2.  KPERS is not bargained at the local level and has nothing to do with school district budgets.  It is a retirement pension plan that the state of Kansas set up for government employees and that since 1970 has included teachers.  It is entirely under the purview of the state legislature and while benefits are promised/guaranteed to members that have already been vested, it is not guaranteed in perpetuity for new workers.  In other words, the legislature has the power to change it to a 401k style program at any time for non-vested members.  I'm not sure exactly how it would work for people that are already vested, but it isn't guaranteed by the constitution, so my understanding is the pension is pretty much entirely within the purview of the legislature.  They exercise control of it.

3.  It is perfectly fine to note that when looking at the totality of dollars, the legislature just spent money on KPERS, and that KPERS relates to education and to even label that "education spending."  It is absolutely true that the money ultimately comes from the same source-- taxpayers.  No qualms with any of that thinking.  But it has anything to do with districts or why they are having budget issues, which was what I was talking about.

HTH


Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #458 on: June 01, 2015, 11:57:11 AM »
That is not what I said.  I am describing why districts are reporting that they are feeling squeezed.  I am glad that the KPERS funding gap was closed.  I don't really have an opinion on what per-pupil spending should include, just that it should be consistent over time for comparisons sake.  I absolutely agree that it is "education spending" in the sense that someone, somewhere is paying for it and it is a benefit to teachers.

The post does a good job of explaining why, from a school district's budgeting perspective that is tangential.

Well, I'll agree with you that the post does a good job of explaining the absurd "reasoning" of the teachers' union. But they can't have their cake and eat it too - if the money is spent on teacher benefits, there's less money to spend on other things. (Actually, I guess they can have their cake and eat it too as long as they and the Supreme Court continue to pressure the legislature to spend ever growing gobs of cash on education, which is the whole point of this dishonest campaign.)

1.  The link I posted was a response sent out by the central office of Kansas City, Kansas Public Schools (KCKPS).  Consider it to be the words of the superintendent's office.  That is the chief representative that a teacher's union would bargain with (against/in opposition to) to determine the benefits/salary working conditions within a district.

2.  KPERS is not bargained at the local level and has nothing to do with school district budgets.  It is a retirement pension plan that the state of Kansas set up for government employees and that since 1970 has included teachers.  It is entirely under the purview of the state legislature and while benefits are promised/guaranteed to members that have already been vested, it is not guaranteed in perpetuity for new workers.  In other words, the legislature has the power to change it to a 401k style program at any time for non-vested members.  I'm not sure exactly how it would work for people that are already vested, but it isn't guaranteed by the constitution, so my understanding is the pension is pretty much entirely within the purview of the legislature.  They exercise control of it.

3.  It is perfectly fine to note that when looking at the totality of dollars, the legislature just spent money on KPERS, and that KPERS relates to education and to even label that "education spending."  It is absolutely true that the money ultimately comes from the same source-- taxpayers.  No qualms with any of that thinking.  But it has anything to do with districts or why they are having budget issues, which was what I was talking about.

HTH

Wow. You really believe the fiction that the teachers union bargains "against" the KCKPS?! :lol: I don't think you understand the fundmanetal problem of public sector unions. I can't help you, KK. Continue to live your delusion.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Online steve dave

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #459 on: June 01, 2015, 12:05:39 PM »
lol

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #460 on: June 01, 2015, 12:14:35 PM »
Quote
I can't help you. Continue to live your delusion.

Same.

 :frown:

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #461 on: June 01, 2015, 12:28:25 PM »
Funniest part of the ongoing KS legislature shenanigans?

Tom Arpke, a KS Senate Republican from Salina, is a travel agent and booked an Alaskan cruise for the week thinking the session would be over.  He is on the cruise and collecting his legislator pay.

I offer my consulting services free of charge in the hopes that this ad comes to fruition:

Tom Arpke voted against welfare recipients using their taxpayer dollars to go on a cruise.  Then during the budget crisis, Tom Arpke booked himself a cruise on your tax payer dollars.  Let's send Tom Arpke packing on November 1st and send him on a cruise far away from the capitol building.



« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 12:32:04 PM by Kat Kid »

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #462 on: June 01, 2015, 12:37:42 PM »
Funniest part of the ongoing KS legislature shenanigans?

Tom Arpke, a KS Senate Republican from Salina, is a travel agent and booked an Alaskan cruise for the week thinking the session would be over.  He is on the cruise and collecting his legislator pay.

I offer my consulting services free of charge in the hopes that this ad comes to fruition:

Tom Arpke voted against welfare recipients using their taxpayer dollars to go on a cruise.  Then during the budget crisis, Tom Arpke booked himself a cruise on your tax payer dollars.  Let's send Tom Arpke packing on November 1st and send him on a cruise far away from the capitol building.




I don't know if this was your intent, but this sounds strikingly similar to the Obama vacation/golf memes the libtards love to deride.
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Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #463 on: June 01, 2015, 12:46:09 PM »
FWIW, the archaic "per pupil" formula is the whole reason the "school funding" issue is constantly being wrangled over. No matter how much money is spent on education, there's always a way to argue that it's being cut. It's ridiculous and 95% political propaganda.

It's quite a boon politically for the dems, and I imagine they want things as obfuscated as possible. They don't give a crap about people, just power. And this issue is their only foothold in Kansas. Congrats! The amount of money spent redebating this every year of every republican governorship could fill the budget gap 10 times over.
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Offline EMAWican

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #464 on: June 01, 2015, 12:48:38 PM »
I just realized that ole Mr. Brownback was penciled in to speak at an education-related thing that I have to go to tomorrow.  Is he going to Skype in his signing the proclamation as well?  Too busy?

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #465 on: June 01, 2015, 12:56:44 PM »
Kk is lying, there is no such thing as a travel agent
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #466 on: June 01, 2015, 01:02:32 PM »
Funniest part of the ongoing KS legislature shenanigans?

Tom Arpke, a KS Senate Republican from Salina, is a travel agent and booked an Alaskan cruise for the week thinking the session would be over.  He is on the cruise and collecting his legislator pay.

I offer my consulting services free of charge in the hopes that this ad comes to fruition:

Tom Arpke voted against welfare recipients using their taxpayer dollars to go on a cruise.  Then during the budget crisis, Tom Arpke booked himself a cruise on your tax payer dollars.  Let's send Tom Arpke packing on November 1st and send him on a cruise far away from the capitol building.




lol

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #467 on: June 01, 2015, 01:04:44 PM »
I won't be happy until someone I don't know publishes it on facebook and it gets posted in the political facebook thread.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 01:08:04 PM by Kat Kid »

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #468 on: June 01, 2015, 01:05:16 PM »
Kk is lying, there is no such thing as a travel agent

Probably a Russian Spy.

Offline Tobias

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #469 on: June 01, 2015, 01:07:41 PM »
Kk is lying, there is no such thing as a travel agent

our former mayor was also a "travel agent".  drugs?

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #470 on: June 01, 2015, 01:08:38 PM »
Not drugs, just Salina.

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #471 on: June 01, 2015, 01:34:52 PM »
I just realized that ole Mr. Brownback was penciled in to speak at an education-related thing that I have to go to tomorrow.  Is he going to Skype in his signing the proclamation as well?  Too busy?

FYI, the governor is not a member of the legislature.
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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #472 on: June 01, 2015, 01:43:08 PM »
I just realized that ole Mr. Brownback was penciled in to speak at an education-related thing that I have to go to tomorrow.  Is he going to Skype in his signing the proclamation as well?  Too busy?

Hopefully he Skypes in. The state needs to save all of the money it can.

Offline EMAWican

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #473 on: June 01, 2015, 01:59:31 PM »
I just realized that ole Mr. Brownback was penciled in to speak at an education-related thing that I have to go to tomorrow.  Is he going to Skype in his signing the proclamation as well?  Too busy?

FYI, the governor is not a member of the legislature.
IIRC, that's right. I hope an out of town education-based forum is more important that signing a budget bill.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools
« Reply #474 on: June 01, 2015, 04:08:53 PM »
Wait - is there a bill to sign? Last I heard, the Chamber GOP and Conservative GOP can't agree on which taxes to increase, and nobody (at least in leadership) has the guts to bring spending cuts to the floor for a vote.

I wonder if there is any precedent for this sort of budget impasse when one party so completely dominates the Legislature and Executive? It would actually be pretty amusing but for, you know, the liklihood of higher taxes.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.