Holy War

[ew2x4]

A Christian can be as horrible as anyone, but a Christian admits what he/she has done was wrong and is repentant.

I am a horrible person. I need help.

Yeah effing right, PW. Most "Christians" from college that I know go out and get absolutely hammered drunk every weekend, do drugs, eff eachother, cheat on eachother, lie to eachother, envy eachother, ETC. But it's ok in their minds since the next day they are "Forgiven" or whatever. This is what angers me about religion the most, is how hypocritical people are.

Hate the player, don't hate the game.  Though I don't think that really applies literally in this case.  I often used to say, "It isn't Christianity that I have a problem with, its the Christians."

The thing is, there are Christians and there are people who were only raised Christians. There's not always a long touching born again, coming back to Jesus story with everyone, but there has to be a point in life where you make that choice. Those guys haven't made their choice yet.

Good point.

So real Christians wouldn't claim these people as actual Christians? I for one, would not. Behavior like this is disgraceful to religion if these people still call them selves "Christians", and some of the ones that I know that exhibit this behavior are very religoius and like I said above it's ok because they're "forgiven".

Honestly, it's not up to the "real" Christians to label or claim others. It's more Christian like to reach out to them. Not segregate them. Jesus had a supposed hooker and a tax collector in his posse, after all.

[nicname]

I love this kind of stuff. You can argue all damn day...and there really isn't anyway for anyone to prove they're right. Love it.

Pretty much how I see it.  Goes along with the difference between knowing something and believing something.  I'm good with that.

[michigancat]

More like Theban steel!

same thing

Yeah, I'm not so sure the Spartans were conquered because they were morally inferior (socially I guess) than Thebes or Rome. Just that Theban Military Doctrine evolved faster. Not necessarily their morals. After all, the Thebans had their Sacred Band of Gay Lovers.  Not exactly morally superior to Sparta or inferior to Rome.

maybe theban military doctrine evolved faster because they spent less time worrying about dickheads stealing.

Super jealous of all the people who know what they are doing after they die. I'm sure heaven (or having 72 virgins, or being a cow, whatever) will be a hell of a time.  Of course, I hope for your sake that you aren't wrong about which religion you chose, because most of them seem to condemn those that didn't choose their idea of a deity.  I really am jealous of those who have confidence and solace in their beliefs about the afterlife, but I can't believe it myself. On the other hand, I don't have terrible memories of the time before I became conscious, and I'm not too concerned about the time after I lose consciousness at the end.  

Super unheralded aspect of Pascal's Wager. There is a 1 in tens of thousands chance that you pick the right religion. And even if you do, you have to really really really mean it if you want to get to that heaven and not go to hell.

The odds are so against you that it makes life nearly as hopeless as being a stupid atheist. But you gotta try. That is why I am a Christian.

You could just follow the golden rule as best you can (without picking the wrong religion) and hope for the best. Personally, I'd take my chances at being a good atheist over picking the religion that the correct religion just couldn't stand.

[bubbles4ksu]

the god people have a disadvantage because they have no proof of an invisible ghost guy.  the burden is on them.

 

maybe you missed all of the proof in the morality arguments?

[nicname]

A Christian can be as horrible as anyone, but a Christian admits what he/she has done was wrong and is repentant.

I am a horrible person. I need help.

Yeah effing right, PW. Most "Christians" from college that I know go out and get absolutely hammered drunk every weekend, do drugs, eff eachother, cheat on eachother, lie to eachother, envy eachother, ETC. But it's ok in their minds since the next day they are "Forgiven" or whatever. This is what angers me about religion the most, is how hypocritical people are.

Hate the player, don't hate the game.  Though I don't think that really applies literally in this case.  I often used to say, "It isn't Christianity that I have a problem with, its the Christians."

The thing is, there are Christians and there are people who were only raised Christians. There's not always a long touching born again, coming back to Jesus story with everyone, but there has to be a point in life where you make that choice. Those guys haven't made their choice yet.

Good point.

So real Christians wouldn't claim these people as actual Christians? I for one, would not. Behavior like this is disgraceful to religion if these people still call them selves "Christians", and some of the ones that I know that exhibit this behavior are very religoius and like I said above it's ok because they're "forgiven".

Honestly, it's not up to the "real" Christians to label or claim others. It's more Christian like to reach out to them. Not segregate them. Jesus had a supposed hooker and a tax collector in his posse, after all.

I look at it like this.  Jesus said I (my words) are the way, the truth, light etc.  If you believe in me (my words) and work to apply them to your life, then you will be a beacon of that light.  So, should someone who chooses to follow the teachings of Christ stop hanging out with old friends, and only with other people deemed "good enough?"  I think it is precisely the opposite.  Where would that light be more valuable?

[pike]

the god people have a disadvantage because they have no proof of an invisible ghost guy.  the burden is on them.

 

maybe you missed all of the proof in the morality arguments?

Nothing was proven by the God people in the morality arguments 

[yoga-like_abana]

Whats wrong with living your life as a good person but not worrying about God or religion?  

[PoetWarrior]

There is a line. That line is saying that God couldn't do it that way, so it probably didn't happen. What I'm saying is it's more likely that it is a poetic description of his design, his passion in creation. Our place on this earth and historical evidence supports this. What I'm not saying, is God's power is limited. He could have done it any way He pleases. For us to limit ourselves and limit him because of what Moses wrote a some 4000 years ago in a completely different culture with completely different translations, is not helping anyone.

But again, I believe He has allowed the Bible to move through time accurately and plainly for us to read and understand. It's not a puzzle. So, questioning how things are translated is perhaps doubting his intention.

[8manpick]

Super jealous of all the people who know what they are doing after they die. I'm sure heaven (or having 72 virgins, or being a cow, whatever) will be a hell of a time.  Of course, I hope for your sake that you aren't wrong about which religion you chose, because most of them seem to condemn those that didn't choose their idea of a deity.  I really am jealous of those who have confidence and solace in their beliefs about the afterlife, but I can't believe it myself. On the other hand, I don't have terrible memories of the time before I became conscious, and I'm not too concerned about the time after I lose consciousness at the end.  

Super unheralded aspect of Pascal's Wager. There is a 1 in tens of thousands chance that you pick the right religion. And even if you do, you have to really really really mean it if you want to get to that heaven and not go to hell.

The odds are so against you that it makes life nearly as hopeless as being a stupid atheist. But you gotta try. That is why I am a Christian.

You could just follow the golden rule as best you can (without picking the wrong religion) and hope for the best. Personally, I'd take my chances at being a good atheist over picking the religion that the correct religion just couldn't stand.

Bingo

Whats wrong with living your life as a good person but not worrying about God or religion?  

Nothing

[bubbles4ksu]

the god people have a disadvantage because they have no proof of an invisible ghost guy.  the burden is on them.

 

maybe you missed all of the proof in the morality arguments?

Nothing was proven by the God people in the morality arguments 

was being completely facetious in my last two posts.

[the KHAN!]

I love this kind of stuff. You can argue all damn day...and there really isn't anyway for anyone to prove they're right. Love it.

Pretty much how I see it.  Goes along with the difference between knowing something and believing something.  I'm good with that.

I find it amusing that people DEMAND "to be as certain of invisible things as I (or in this case they) was that seven and three are ten"

Yet they do not demand this type of proof that their parents are actually their parents. That the Civil War actually happened. That Milan, as a city, exists.

We simply take these other things at other peoples word.  We believe our parents when they tell us that they are our parents. We believe historians when they tell us the Civil War happened without doing the research ourselves. We believe Milan is real just because someone said they were there or had a picture of a city and labeled it so.  But God must present himself personally and shake your hand (you will no doubt check yourself into a psychiatric hospital because it would still be too unbelievable to you) for you to buy in.

[WillieWatanabe]

the god people have a disadvantage because they have no proof of an invisible ghost guy.  the burden is on them.

 

I believe "burden" is the wrong word in this case. oh my.

[pike]

Whats wrong with living your life as a good person but not worrying about God or religion?  

Many people don't think it's possible to have morals without a superior being to judge you, which is pretty dumb

[PoetWarrior]

What if Jesus was just a really nice guy?  What if a god judged people based off of the daily choices they make rather than Jesus getting offed?  What if what he did got him judged kindly, but has nothing to do with you or yours?


Better yet, what if god didn't pay any attention to anything "us" related.  What if god exists but doesn't serve the function that many think? 

Christians believe that the Bible is the divinely inspired word of God. It answers all of these questions...There's not much else a Christian can say...

[OK_Cat]

BOOM

[the KHAN!]

BOOM

we can do this all day...

[PoetWarrior]

the god people have a disadvantage because they have no proof of an invisible ghost guy.  the burden is on them.

 

Look out your window.

Look at your hands. Watch them move.

Watch the moon eclipse the sun.

Ask yourself why you haven't killed yourself or your family?

Proof is surrounding you on every side.

Look at it.

[PoetWarrior]

Whats wrong with living your life as a good person but not worrying about God or religion?  

It's meaningless and stupid.

Only a real idiot would do it.

[OK_Cat]

the god people have a disadvantage because they have no proof of an invisible ghost guy.  the burden is on them.

 

Look out your window.

Look at your hands. Watch them move.

Watch the moon eclipse the sun.

Ask yourself why you haven't killed yourself or your family?

Proof is surrounding you on every side.

Look at it.

 

[OK_Cat]

BOOM

we can do this all day...

mine is funnier.

[WillieWatanabe]

the god people have a disadvantage because they have no proof of an invisible ghost guy.  the burden is on them.

 

Look out your window.

Look at your hands. Watch them move.

Watch the moon eclipse the sun.

Ask yourself why you haven't killed yourself or your family?

Proof is surrounding you on every side.

Look at it.

 

[PoetWarrior]

the god people have a disadvantage because they have no proof of an invisible ghost guy.  the burden is on them.

 

Look out your window.

Look at your hands. Watch them move.

Watch the moon eclipse the sun.

Ask yourself why you haven't killed yourself or your family?

Proof is surrounding you on every side.

Look at it.

 

You'll think about it.

[ew2x4]

What if Jesus was just a really nice guy?  What if a god judged people based off of the daily choices they make rather than Jesus getting offed?  What if what he did got him judged kindly, but has nothing to do with you or yours?

People call him the Son of God, but he was actually God in human form. In Revelation, he actually returns to John in a different form. He resembles the Jesus he knew, but with white hair, a dagger, and bronzed feet. To separate Jesus and God is interesting to think about, but they are indeed one.

Better yet, what if god didn't pay any attention to anything "us" related.  What if god exists but doesn't serve the function that many think?

Anything is possible. It would go against everything in the bible, though. Especially the new testament.

[pike]

I love this kind of stuff. You can argue all damn day...and there really isn't anyway for anyone to prove they're right. Love it.

Pretty much how I see it.  Goes along with the difference between knowing something and believing something.  I'm good with that.

I find it amusing that people DEMAND "to be as certain of invisible things as I (or in this case they) was that seven and three are ten"

Yet they do not demand this type of proof that their parents are actually their parents. That the Civil War actually happened. That Milan, as a city, exists.

We simply take these other things at other peoples word.  We believe our parents when they tell us that they are our parents. We believe historians when they tell us the Civil War happened without doing the research ourselves. We believe Milan is real just because someone said they were there or had a picture of a city and labeled it so.  But God must present himself personally and shake your hand (you will no doubt check yourself into a psychiatric hospital because it would still be too unbelievable to you) for you to buy in.

There's really no evidence of God though, other than some ridiculously hard to believe things in the Bible. On the other hand, there are millions and millions of witnesses to the Civil war, your "parents" argument is completely irrelevant, and millions and millions of people have been to Milan and can describe it.

[the KHAN!]

BOOM

we can do this all day...

mine is funnier.

Mine is more accurate.