bbba and bib discussion.

[Kat Kid]

I am more pissed at Gottheimer and the SALT caucus than Manchin anyways. Manchin is playing a dumb game, but I think I know how it ends.  Gottheimer is just a piece of crap.

[kim carnes]

Kk, say less

[steve dave]

yeah, stfu kk

[Justwin]

they did, thus all the gimmicks.

however clever the aides that drew up the gimmicks thought they were, they failed to fool manchin, so back to the drawing board, but this time for real.

He just arbitrarily made the number up so they arbitrarily tried to do as much of the actual policy proposals they wanted to meet his dumb number.  Then he said he didn’t like that.

Who even knows that the number means anyways, do tax raises off set? Also Manchin now seems to say that any program must be counted for the 10 year window, but even that is kind of dumb because if it is “permanent” then that number is just an arbitrary window too.

The only reason any of this is taken seriously is because everyone in a position to help get this done has to treat Manchin like he is Cicero while he struts around and gives his daily press conference to try to convince Weat Virginians he isn’t rolling over for the dems.

The entire thing is a farce and theatre. I can’t understand why you are pretending it is anything but. And even if you like that Manchin is preventing this crap you don’t like from getting passed, the way he is doing it must be a bit distasteful to you.

Would you prefer for West Virginia to have a Republican senator and Mitch McConnell be majority leader?

[IPA4Me]

Yes

[sys]

good summary (thread).

https://twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/1471560279272030209

[Kat Kid]

they did, thus all the gimmicks.

however clever the aides that drew up the gimmicks thought they were, they failed to fool manchin, so back to the drawing board, but this time for real.

He just arbitrarily made the number up so they arbitrarily tried to do as much of the actual policy proposals they wanted to meet his dumb number.  Then he said he didn’t like that.

Who even knows that the number means anyways, do tax raises off set? Also Manchin now seems to say that any program must be counted for the 10 year window, but even that is kind of dumb because if it is “permanent” then that number is just an arbitrary window too.

The only reason any of this is taken seriously is because everyone in a position to help get this done has to treat Manchin like he is Cicero while he struts around and gives his daily press conference to try to convince Weat Virginians he isn’t rolling over for the dems.

The entire thing is a farce and theatre. I can’t understand why you are pretending it is anything but. And even if you like that Manchin is preventing this crap you don’t like from getting passed, the way he is doing it must be a bit distasteful to you.

Would you prefer for West Virginia to have a Republican senator and Mitch McConnell be majority leader?

no, I understand why Manchin is doing it and why the Biden admin and Senators are treating him like a very special senate boy. I don't have to like it. This is like me getting to look ahead on the schedule and kstate players not getting to. I don't understand what sys thinks is happening.

[sys]

I don't understand what sys thinks is happening

i think my understanding is the same as yours (whatever manchin wants is what happens because they can't do anything without his vote).

[CNS]

It seems to me like the bill just needs to include a special super awesome project, that is very obvious, for WV.  Just give them three airports and a bridge or something.  Lets get this crap going.

[Kat Kid]

I don't understand what sys thinks is happening

i think my understanding is the same as yours (whatever manchin wants is what happens because they can't do anything without his vote).

then I don't understand why you think that is good, other than just hating the ctc.  is that the whole thing for you?

[sys]

then I don't understand why you think that is good, other than just hating the ctc.  is that the whole thing for you?

i think it's good because, while my preferences don't align very well with manchin's (if i was 51 senators, i'd pass like a 5t climate change bill and nothing else), i think the bill manchin will agree to is better than the bill the senate would have passed without manchin and sinema to restrain them.

[Justwin]

then I don't understand why you think that is good, other than just hating the ctc.  is that the whole thing for you?

i think it's good because, while my preferences don't align very well with manchin's (if i was 51 senators, i'd pass like a 5t climate change bill and nothing else), i think the bill manchin will agree to is better than the bill the senate would have passed without manchin and sinema to restrain them.

What would be in a $5 trillion climate bill? Why not just put an $80 per metric ton of carbon tax in place and redistribute the proceeds on a per capita basis?

[sys]

What would be in a $5 trillion climate bill? Why not just put an $80 per metric ton of carbon tax in place and redistribute the proceeds on a per capita basis?

crap tons of money for research and incentives; i'm fully convinced by the ramez naam thesis that the best/only way to accelerate global carbon-free energy adoption is to make it cheaper than carbon-intensive energy.

a carbon tax is great except that people seem to hate the idea.  maybe if i was 51 senators i wouldn't care about that, but i don't expect 51 actual senators to not care about it.

[Rage Against the McKee]

The problem with going after the CTC is that a whole bunch of people who have to start paying their fair share of taxes would start voting R to get back onto the government teat and we would have President Trump again. They should probably go after a smaller voting block, like rich people, instead.

[MakeItRain]

they did, thus all the gimmicks.

however clever the aides that drew up the gimmicks thought they were, they failed to fool manchin, so back to the drawing board, but this time for real.

He just arbitrarily made the number up so they arbitrarily tried to do as much of the actual policy proposals they wanted to meet his dumb number.  Then he said he didn’t like that.

Who even knows that the number means anyways, do tax raises off set? Also Manchin now seems to say that any program must be counted for the 10 year window, but even that is kind of dumb because if it is “permanent” then that number is just an arbitrary window too.

The only reason any of this is taken seriously is because everyone in a position to help get this done has to treat Manchin like he is Cicero while he struts around and gives his daily press conference to try to convince Weat Virginians he isn’t rolling over for the dems.

The entire thing is a farce and theatre. I can’t understand why you are pretending it is anything but. And even if you like that Manchin is preventing this crap you don’t like from getting passed, the way he is doing it must be a bit distasteful to you.

Would you prefer for West Virginia to have a Republican senator and Mitch McConnell be majority leader?

That would not present a different scenario that we have now. As it stands the only real function of the Senate right now is a rubber stamp for raising the debt ceiling and confirmations for appointees. Dems have already lost the supreme court for at least a generation, so really what are we talking about. By blocking the removal of the filibuster and not supporting BBB he's functionally supporting a republican agenda by stalling cornerstone democrat initiatives.

[sonofdaxjones]

Joe Manchin = Hero

[wiley]

they did, thus all the gimmicks.

however clever the aides that drew up the gimmicks thought they were, they failed to fool manchin, so back to the drawing board, but this time for real.

He just arbitrarily made the number up so they arbitrarily tried to do as much of the actual policy proposals they wanted to meet his dumb number.  Then he said he didn’t like that.

Who even knows that the number means anyways, do tax raises off set? Also Manchin now seems to say that any program must be counted for the 10 year window, but even that is kind of dumb because if it is “permanent” then that number is just an arbitrary window too.

The only reason any of this is taken seriously is because everyone in a position to help get this done has to treat Manchin like he is Cicero while he struts around and gives his daily press conference to try to convince Weat Virginians he isn’t rolling over for the dems.

The entire thing is a farce and theatre. I can’t understand why you are pretending it is anything but. And even if you like that Manchin is preventing this crap you don’t like from getting passed, the way he is doing it must be a bit distasteful to you.

Would you prefer for West Virginia to have a Republican senator and Mitch McConnell be majority leader?

That would not present a different scenario that we have now. As it stands the only real function of the Senate right now is a rubber stamp for raising the debt ceiling and confirmations for appointees. Dems have already lost the supreme court for at least a generation, so really what are we talking about. By blocking the removal of the filibuster and not supporting BBB he's functionally supporting a republican agenda by stalling cornerstone democrat initiatives.

You forgot passing defense budgets

[MakeItRain]

Manchin announcing that he won't vote for BBB while making an appearance on Fox News is simply perfect.

[kim carnes]

We’ve got to figure out a way to get salt relief done, perhaps through standalone legislation.

[sys]

a senate-written version of the bbba will pass.  i don't think anything has changed in that regard.

[Justwin]

We’ve got to figure out a way to get salt relief done, perhaps through standalone legislation.

No Republicans will support it and there are a number of Democrats that are not going to support a tax break for the wealthy.

[sys]

manchin fighting for the people.   

https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1473003746510745602

[kim carnes]

I don’t understand why the WH wouldn’t agree to that

[Kat Kid]

No CTC is dog crap.

[wiley]

No CTC is dog crap.

Daycare will just spike the cost like they did last year.  Our daycare raised the tuition cost 10% the month that the payments started being sent.  Impeccable timing if you ask me.  Look forward to another solid increase if this bill passes again.