Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....

[Jabeez]

4 Stories from Ohio, 1 from South Carolina:
Our band wagon is pretty immense in the northern midwest, I think it's safe to say Ohio is Big 12 'tuck country.  Flew into Cleveland Monday and the Dollar car rental guy said, "K-State! I catch them on ABC all the time, I like the way that Collin Klein plays!"

Townie bar in Dayton last night, some townie, "Boy, it's a good thing you guys kicked out that mexican basketball coach, that team is fun to watch win despite terrible coaching."

Wearing my elite nike polo on the way to the airport and got some Tim Horton's for some espressos and the manager said him and his huge k-state fan brother went to watch the 'cats play bball in Pittsburgh in the tourney

Then while going through security a TSA agent pulled me out of the line and I was expecting a cavity search he showed me a picture of his 3 year old niece in a K-State polo and said, "My family grew up in KC and are huge fans!  My niece says go k-state when any sport is on tv."  Told him that her parents are raising her right and wished him well.

In south Carolina last week and went out in Charlotte(Borders South Carolina) one night and met some South Carolina grads,  they didnt even know they had a new bball coach.  Met a Uconn grad who actually said, "Manhattan Kansas!? The Little Apple!"

Moral of the story,  there is a reason there was a civil war, it is because the south is full of idiots.
 

[pissclams]

Louisville is a commuter school.  DO NOT WANT.

yeah. louuisville is one small step about cinicinatti. they're both disgusting.

Both add more televisions than Clemson.

garbage city commuter school garbage

q:  other than to help you and sd fabricate a reason why UL isnt good enough for the b12, what bearing does being a commuter school have as it relates to UL's qualifications to join the b12?

a: none

[Trim]

Louisville is a commuter school.  DO NOT WANT.

yeah. louuisville is one small step about cinicinatti. they're both disgusting.

Both add more televisions than Clemson.

garbage city commuter school garbage

q:  other than to help you and sd fabricate a reason why UL isnt good enough for the b12, what bearing does being a commuter school have as it relates to UL's qualifications to join the b12?

a: none

It's a funny thing Pete was screaming at the UNLV student section during the VegasPak game.  Thought you were there. 

[pissclams]

well trim then i take it back.  just redirect my post to steven david. 

[Dr Rick Daris]

741 pages and people still don't understand that the ONLY thing you should consider when adding teams to a conference is how much they increase the value of your television deal.  If the SEC gave a damn about football success they wouldn't have added A&M and Mizzou instead of WVU.  They added Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Kansas City, and St. Louis instead of Charleston, WV and 1/5 of Pittsburgh.

Can't remember if you were advocating Louisville or not, but if you were, you're making a counterpoint to adding them. UL adds like 50% of their own city, some scraps of the remaining state, and virtually nobody else. If FSU is the only ACC school that wants to come, then bell yeah, add UL too, they simply aren't the top choice. crap, I'd take Cinci with FSU if that meant getting FSU.

I wasn't really advocating anyone, just posting about Louisville/Cincinnati/Clemson.  I don't think that the value of those three right now to a television contract is much different.  Clemson has a very strong fan base with virtually no televisions and corporate advertising potential.  Cincinnati has a ton of televisions and potential corporate cash, but no fan base to speak of.  Louisville has more TVs than Clemson and a stronger fan base than Cincinnati.

You all need to remember that Cincinnati and Louisville have recently been average programs in a substandard conference, but both have been slowly gaining higher profiles through the years.  They both saw surges when they joined the Big East and logic would tell you that would happen again when they joined the Big 12.  Easier to draw fans to your stadium to see UT and OU as opposed to Big East powerhouses, WVU, Pitt, and Syracuse.  If Cincinnati and/or Louisville entered the national championship picture in the Big 12 their fan bases would explode.  Clemson just doesn't have that growth potential, they already have a strong, dedicated fan base and their television numbers in the south are as strong as they're going to be.

well if this is your argument, you should be arguing for adding south and central florida above all three of the above.

Pretty similar but I don't think they have the growth potential, even in Miami's heyday the didn't constantly fill up the OB.  Like nearly everything else, Florida specifically Florida south of of I-4 is completely unique.  I just watched the Florida Panthers last night host a game 7 to a 3/4 full arena.

i'm kind of surprised that you'd say that. i think the growth potential of those schools are much greater.

enrollment numbers...

south florida enrollment- 47,000
central florida enrollment- 58,000  (second in the nation to only asu)
miami- 21,000

plus you look at when all the schools started playing football, what their current avg attendance is, growth rate of the school and the area, plus your arguments above about conf affiliation etc., i can't help but think that football would absolutely explode at those schools if all of the sudden they were added to the big12. much moreso than cincinatti, louiseville and miami anyway. given your argument, you should be using the florida schools as your example.

[MakeItRain]

741 pages and people still don't understand that the ONLY thing you should consider when adding teams to a conference is how much they increase the value of your television deal.  If the SEC gave a damn about football success they wouldn't have added A&M and Mizzou instead of WVU.  They added Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Kansas City, and St. Louis instead of Charleston, WV and 1/5 of Pittsburgh.

Can't remember if you were advocating Louisville or not, but if you were, you're making a counterpoint to adding them. UL adds like 50% of their own city, some scraps of the remaining state, and virtually nobody else. If FSU is the only ACC school that wants to come, then bell yeah, add UL too, they simply aren't the top choice. crap, I'd take Cinci with FSU if that meant getting FSU.

I wasn't really advocating anyone, just posting about Louisville/Cincinnati/Clemson.  I don't think that the value of those three right now to a television contract is much different.  Clemson has a very strong fan base with virtually no televisions and corporate advertising potential.  Cincinnati has a ton of televisions and potential corporate cash, but no fan base to speak of.  Louisville has more TVs than Clemson and a stronger fan base than Cincinnati.

You all need to remember that Cincinnati and Louisville have recently been average programs in a substandard conference, but both have been slowly gaining higher profiles through the years.  They both saw surges when they joined the Big East and logic would tell you that would happen again when they joined the Big 12.  Easier to draw fans to your stadium to see UT and OU as opposed to Big East powerhouses, WVU, Pitt, and Syracuse.  If Cincinnati and/or Louisville entered the national championship picture in the Big 12 their fan bases would explode.  Clemson just doesn't have that growth potential, they already have a strong, dedicated fan base and their television numbers in the south are as strong as they're going to be.

well if this is your argument, you should be arguing for adding south and central florida above all three of the above.

Pretty similar but I don't think they have the growth potential, even in Miami's heyday the didn't constantly fill up the OB.  Like nearly everything else, Florida specifically Florida south of of I-4 is completely unique.  I just watched the Florida Panthers last night host a game 7 to a 3/4 full arena.

i'm kind of surprised that you'd say that. i think the growth potential of those schools are much greater.

enrollment numbers...

south florida enrollment- 47,000
central florida enrollment- 58,000  (second in the nation to only asu)
miami- 21,000

plus you look at when all the schools started playing football, what their current avg attendance is, growth rate of the school and the area, plus your arguments above about conf affiliation etc., i can't help but think that football would absolutely explode at those schools if all of the sudden they were added to the big12. much moreso than cincinatti, louiseville and miami anyway. given your argument, you should be using the florida schools as your example.

Enrollment numbers have nothing to do with what I'm talking about.  Now I will agree that my conference affiliation and burgeoning program argument fits USF and UCF very well.  However, I'm using my south Florida has a long and extensive history of not giving two craps about sports of any kind veto stamp on those two schools.  They are so sports indifferent that they can't even attract a MLS team with their large and diverse Latin population.  We know South Carolina and the Ohio Valley region are far from indifferent to college sports.

[Trim]

USF isn't in south Florida.

[Dr Rick Daris]

741 pages and people still don't understand that the ONLY thing you should consider when adding teams to a conference is how much they increase the value of your television deal.  If the SEC gave a damn about football success they wouldn't have added A&M and Mizzou instead of WVU.  They added Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Kansas City, and St. Louis instead of Charleston, WV and 1/5 of Pittsburgh.

Can't remember if you were advocating Louisville or not, but if you were, you're making a counterpoint to adding them. UL adds like 50% of their own city, some scraps of the remaining state, and virtually nobody else. If FSU is the only ACC school that wants to come, then bell yeah, add UL too, they simply aren't the top choice. crap, I'd take Cinci with FSU if that meant getting FSU.

I wasn't really advocating anyone, just posting about Louisville/Cincinnati/Clemson.  I don't think that the value of those three right now to a television contract is much different.  Clemson has a very strong fan base with virtually no televisions and corporate advertising potential.  Cincinnati has a ton of televisions and potential corporate cash, but no fan base to speak of.  Louisville has more TVs than Clemson and a stronger fan base than Cincinnati.

You all need to remember that Cincinnati and Louisville have recently been average programs in a substandard conference, but both have been slowly gaining higher profiles through the years.  They both saw surges when they joined the Big East and logic would tell you that would happen again when they joined the Big 12.  Easier to draw fans to your stadium to see UT and OU as opposed to Big East powerhouses, WVU, Pitt, and Syracuse.  If Cincinnati and/or Louisville entered the national championship picture in the Big 12 their fan bases would explode.  Clemson just doesn't have that growth potential, they already have a strong, dedicated fan base and their television numbers in the south are as strong as they're going to be.

well if this is your argument, you should be arguing for adding south and central florida above all three of the above.

Pretty similar but I don't think they have the growth potential, even in Miami's heyday the didn't constantly fill up the OB.  Like nearly everything else, Florida specifically Florida south of of I-4 is completely unique.  I just watched the Florida Panthers last night host a game 7 to a 3/4 full arena.

i'm kind of surprised that you'd say that. i think the growth potential of those schools are much greater.

enrollment numbers...

south florida enrollment- 47,000
central florida enrollment- 58,000  (second in the nation to only asu)
miami- 21,000

plus you look at when all the schools started playing football, what their current avg attendance is, growth rate of the school and the area, plus your arguments above about conf affiliation etc., i can't help but think that football would absolutely explode at those schools if all of the sudden they were added to the big12. much moreso than cincinatti, louiseville and miami anyway. given your argument, you should be using the florida schools as your example.

Enrollment numbers have nothing to do with what I'm talking about.  Now I will agree that my conference affiliation and burgeoning program argument fits USF and UCF very well.  However, I'm using my south Florida has a long and extensive history of not giving two craps about sports of any kind veto stamp on those two schools.  They are so sports indifferent that they can't even attract a MLS team with their large and diverse Latin population.  We know South Carolina and the Ohio Valley region are far from indifferent to college sports.

so your reason to have cincinnati instead of usf or ucf in the big 12 would be due to the fact that south florida didn't support an mls team? welp, i guess i can't argue w/ that. have fun. bye.

[steve dave]

well trim then i take it back.  just redirect my post to steven david.

No, I was there too

[MakeItRain]

USF isn't in south Florida.

Neither is UCF but they both are if you split Florida north/south using I-4 like I did earlier.  Point is that the area north of Orlando and Tampa fire life and college sports differently than the people south of it.

[pissclams]

well trim then i take it back.  just redirect my post to steven david.

No, I was there too

then i take it all back, everything.  all of it is taken back and retracted.

[Trim]

USF isn't in south Florida.

Neither is UCF but they both are if you split Florida north/south using I-4 like I did earlier.  Point is that the area north of Orlando and Tampa fire life and college sports differently than the people south of it.

Oh, I didn't split.  I just went by where south florida is.

[sonofdaxjones]

it's funny to listen to k-state fans discussing the merits of schools joining a conference that we ourselves sit near the bottom of

I was talking to my Nigerian friend yesterday about how K-State fans really shouldn't discuss the value of other programs because literally none of us are self-aware so our opinions on the matter are completely tainted.

Great minds, clams, great minds.

Most folks on here are completely aware, and the reason we discuss these things, and why I lean in favor of schools like Clemson is because Clemson (and obviously FSU) are bigger names, with bigger fan bases, located in the most college sports centric region in the Country.   Thus, them joining the Big 12 would likely mean larger TV contracts, the likely probability of an extended Granting of Rights period, thus solidifying the Big 12 conference for a protracted period, and strengthening K-State's overall position strategically and financially.   
 

[Bloodfart]

We should just take whoevs ESPN tells us to   

[pissclams]

it's funny to listen to k-state fans discussing the merits of schools joining a conference that we ourselves sit near the bottom of

I was talking to my Nigerian friend yesterday about how K-State fans really shouldn't discuss the value of other programs because literally none of us are self-aware so our opinions on the matter are completely tainted.

Great minds, clams, great minds.

Most folks on here are completely aware, and the reason we discuss these things, and why I lean in favor of schools like Clemson is because Clemson (and obviously FSU) are bigger names, with bigger fan bases, located in the most college sports centric region in the Country.   Thus, them joining the Big 12 would likely mean larger TV contracts, the likely probability of an extended Granting of Rights period, thus solidifying the Big 12 conference for a protracted period, and strengthening K-State's overall position strategically and financially.   
 

how do you quantify "bigger name" ?

[sonofdaxjones]

FSU and Clemson in regards to football have National Championship trophies, their stadiums seat 30-50,000 more than Louisville and Cincy.  In terms of college football they are much closer to "household names" than Louisville and Cinncy.

FSU particularly benefits from ranking inflation because of their name.

[MakeItRain]

it's funny to listen to k-state fans discussing the merits of schools joining a conference that we ourselves sit near the bottom of

I was talking to my Nigerian friend yesterday about how K-State fans really shouldn't discuss the value of other programs because literally none of us are self-aware so our opinions on the matter are completely tainted.

Great minds, clams, great minds.

Most folks on here are completely aware, and the reason we discuss these things, and why I lean in favor of schools like Clemson is because Clemson (and obviously FSU) are bigger names, with bigger fan bases, located in the most college sports centric region in the Country.   Thus, them joining the Big 12 would likely mean larger TV contracts, the likely probability of an extended Granting of Rights period, thus solidifying the Big 12 conference for a protracted period, and strengthening K-State's overall position strategically and financially.   
 

I was being sarcastic

[Panjandrum]

On Twitter, people were saying Utah State and San Jose State to the MWC.  That should give them an even ten after the Big East and Big 12 defections.

[Panjandrum]

Also, with these losses and Benson leaving, the WAC is pretty much dead.  Sorry, 42.

 

[0.42]

Texas State to the Sun Belt is what it's looking like. Meh. I'd be able to handle that if UTSA wasn't going to Conference USA. That's just a goddamn knife in the gut.

[0.42]

That said, if I'm a New Mexico State fan I'm running for the nearest toilet and if I'm an Idaho fan I already have a giant load dropped in my pants. At least Texas State will have a conference to go to when it's all said and done. NMSU is going to have to beg the Sun Belt to get in and Idaho is just completely mumped.

[Deez Nutz]

Also, with these losses and Benson leaving, the WAC is pretty much dead.  Sorry, 42.

 

That's kind of ironic considering the WAC was the first 16-team conference.  Could be a warning not to cross that line or else total destruction will befall you.   

[ben ji]

From the WV sight that was linked earlier, guy has been right about his info so far.


http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=159&f=4582&t=8952148

After 2 days of busting at the seams to tell you guys this I am finally allowed to spill the beans.


FSU wants in....but under their conditions...

FSU wants to be in a League on par with the SEC in both size and Competition.
FSU wants the B12 to go to 14
FSU wants Miami
FSU wants GT
FSU wants the conference title game to be hosted at rotating sites
FSU wants to keep ties to the Orange bowl in some way

[steve dave]

Well, FSU can go eff themselves and all of their demands.  Especially that 14 teams bullshit. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

Staying at 10 is much better than adding FSU, Clemson, Miami, and Louisville. 14 is only worth it if we somehow get Notre Dame.