Assistant Coach Rumor Thread

[sonofdaxjones]

Anybody on Greenburg's staff worth looking at?

Anybody with high major experience that hasn't been fired worth looking at?

Recruiting wasn't what got Greenburg fired.

His recruiting wasn't good relative to the ACC, either.

They got commits from 4 Top 100 guys in the last 2 recruiting classes.   Once you get past UNC and Duke that's actually some really good recruiting for the ACC, which right now, isn't that good of a basketball conference.

[kso_FAN]

Why not say you believe oscar can have a better conference winning percentage, better average conference finish, better NCAA tournament record, etc.?

no one has answered this question. Does anyone think oscar will leave with a better conference winning percentage, average conference finish, or do better in the NCAA tournament than Frank did?

Because I don't know. I would say the same thing had we hired Gottlieb, kept Brad, etc.

But here are my best guesses:

I think its most likely his overall first 5 years record will be slightly worse in the league.

I think K-State be in postseason every year.

I think K-State have at least 3 NCAA appearances.

I think at least 3 upper half league finishes.

If we don't at least do that, I'll be all for getting rid of him.

[Cire]

time will tell in the end and i guess we'll see if oscar weber can actually win a conference title at kstate like you think he can. i don't think he can but you do so i guess we'll just have to wait and see is what i'm saying.

Honest question - with Frank's '12-'13 team, which coach has a better chance of contending for a title?  Frank or oscar? 

dnr the rest forrest gump.

[sonofdaxjones]

Why not say you believe oscar can have a better conference winning percentage, better average conference finish, better NCAA tournament record, etc.?

no one has answered this question. Does anyone think oscar will leave with a better conference winning percentage, average conference finish, or do better in the NCAA tournament than Frank did?

It will be close.

[Panjandrum]

Anybody on Greenburg's staff worth looking at?

Anybody with high major experience that hasn't been fired worth looking at?

Recruiting wasn't what got Greenburg fired.

His recruiting wasn't good relative to the ACC, either.

They got commits from 4 Top 100 guys in the last 2 recruiting classes.   Once you get past UNC and Duke that's actually some really good recruiting for the ACC, which right now, isn't that good of a basketball conference.

Getting 4 star players (plural) to Blacksburg is pretty good recruiting.

[sonofdaxjones]

time will tell in the end and i guess we'll see if oscar weber can actually win a conference title at kstate like you think he can. i don't think he can but you do so i guess we'll just have to wait and see is what i'm saying.

Honest question - with Frank's '12-'13 team, which coach has a better chance of contending for a title?  Frank or oscar? 

dnr the rest forrest gump.

Good question . . . and the first question you'd have to ask yourself once the Franking's ended, and then Frank was out there picking up crumbs on the JuCo circuit is . . . how many times Frank tells Stan "we're young".

[CNS]

Why not say you believe oscar can have a better conference winning percentage, better average conference finish, better NCAA tournament record, etc.?

no one has answered this question. Does anyone think oscar will leave with a better conference winning percentage, average conference finish, or do better in the NCAA tournament than Frank did?

Because I don't know. I would say the same thing had we hired Gottlieb, kept Brad, etc.

But here are my best guesses:

I think its most likely his overall first 5 years record will be slightly worse in the league.

I think K-State be in postseason every year.

I think K-State have at least 3 NCAA appearances.

I think at least 3 upper half league finishes.

If we don't at least do that, I'll be all for getting rid of him.

I think you should revise to clarify "postseason".  I mean, if we go NIT'ing or CBI'ing every yr for the next 5, w/ no NCAA'ing, and do the rest of what you listed, I would be pissed.

[pissclams]

PISSED.

[yosh]

Why not say you believe oscar can have a better conference winning percentage, better average conference finish, better NCAA tournament record, etc.?

no one has answered this question. Does anyone think oscar will leave with a better conference winning percentage, average conference finish, or do better in the NCAA tournament than Frank did?

I'm not sure who you are baiting with this.  Has anyone claimed this was an obvious upgrade?  I will say I wouldn't be shocked if this is the case.  I'm not expecting it though. 

[kso_FAN]

I think you should revise to clarify "postseason".  I mean, if we go NIT'ing or CBI'ing every yr for the next 5, w/ no NCAA'ing, and do the rest of what you listed, I would be pissed.

I did, that's why I said at least 3 NCAAs. If he has no NCAAs in the first 3 years he should be fired, let alone 5.

[sonofdaxjones]

I think you should revise to clarify "postseason".  I mean, if we go NIT'ing or CBI'ing every yr for the next 5, w/ no NCAA'ing, and do the rest of what you listed, I would be pissed.

I did, that's why I said at least 3 NCAAs. If he has no NCAAs in the first 3 years he should be fired, let alone 5.

I'd lower 3 to 2. 

[CNS]

My reading comprehension is lacking today.

Sorry to all.

[wabash909]

We'll give him the Wooly treatment.  Just needs to make it to the NIT every once in a while and he'll be good.

[michigancat]

Anybody on Greenburg's staff worth looking at?

Anybody with high major experience that hasn't been fired worth looking at?

Recruiting wasn't what got Greenburg fired.

His recruiting wasn't good relative to the ACC, either.

They got commits from 4 Top 100 guys in the last 2 recruiting classes.   Once you get past UNC and Duke that's actually some really good recruiting for the ACC, which right now, isn't that good of a basketball conference.

Getting 4 star players (plural) to Blacksburg is pretty good recruiting.

Not really.

[kso_FAN]

I think you should revise to clarify "postseason".  I mean, if we go NIT'ing or CBI'ing every yr for the next 5, w/ no NCAA'ing, and do the rest of what you listed, I would be pissed.

I did, that's why I said at least 3 NCAAs. If he has no NCAAs in the first 3 years he should be fired, let alone 5.

I'd lower 3 to 2. 

Probably, but I'm being realistic. He will feel plenty of pressure next year because of the talent he inherited, and if he only managed an NIT he would feel heat. But the admin would give him another year or two most likely. Then in year 2 if it tanked and he went 10-20, then you have to make a change. But if he's competitive and fields an NIT team again in year 2, then he'll get the third year. Granted, none of us want that to happen and (I hope) the majority of fans would be ticked, but he'd certainly get 3 years under that scenario IMO.

Of course none of us want to go down that path because that is leading to mediocre basketball, but I trust that the fans and admin wouldn't let it go on more than 3 years. I think we've come far enough to this point that this is expected, but as long as Currie stays he will give his hire a fair shot as long as the program doesn't completely tank. If that makes you more frustrated, so be it, but that's where we are at.

[WillieWatanabe]

Getting 4 star players (plural) to Blacksburg is pretty good recruiting.

Not really.

if you can't get goEMAW to agree with you...you won't get mike decoursey.

[michigancat]

Of course none of us want to go down that path because that is leading to mediocre basketball, but I trust that the fans and admin wouldn't let it go on more than 3 years. I think we've come far enough to this point that this is expected, but as long as Currie stays he will give his hire a fair shot as long as the program doesn't completely tank. If that makes you more frustrated, so be it, but that's where we are at.

The fans and admin have convinced themselves that a coach that SMU interviewed and turned down was a decent hire so I see no reason why the gradual downward slide of expectations will stop any time soon.

[michigancat]

Getting 4 star players (plural) to Blacksburg is pretty good recruiting.

Not really.

if you can't get goEMAW to agree with you...you won't get mike decoursey.

panj is like a mini Mike DeCoursey

[Belvis Noland]

Why not say you believe oscar can have a better conference winning percentage, better average conference finish, better NCAA tournament record, etc.?

no one has answered this question. Does anyone think oscar will leave with a better conference winning percentage, average conference finish, or do better in the NCAA tournament than Frank did?

I think it will be close.  I think Weber's ceiling is higher than Frank's.  I also think his floor is lower than Frank's.  Frank had a unique style that worked at K-State, but it was pretty clear that it had limitations.  Same is true with Mike Anderson teams.  We outworked teams.  On the upside, Frank's style lent itself to being competitive in most games and road games even when shooting 35%.  Also, with "down" teams sans Pullen, Kelly, Clemente, we were still competitive.  On the downside, we were pretty limited offensively and it seems like good coaches schemed the crap out of us.     

With Weber, I'm not sure what we'll get.  He won with Southern Illinois players.  He won with Self's players.  He won with his own players.  He lost with his own players.  He's been on both ends of the spectrum.  So, it's possible that he'll fail to live up to Martin in every statistical category.  It's possible that he could exceed Martin.  I think he'll probably be somewhere in the middle.       

[michigancat]

Why not say you believe oscar can have a better conference winning percentage, better average conference finish, better NCAA tournament record, etc.?

no one has answered this question. Does anyone think oscar will leave with a better conference winning percentage, average conference finish, or do better in the NCAA tournament than Frank did?

I think it will be close.  I think Weber's ceiling is higher than Frank's.  I also think his floor is lower than Frank's.  Frank had a unique style that worked at K-State, but it was pretty clear that it had limitations.  Same is true with Mike Anderson teams.  We outworked teams.  On the upside, Frank's style lent itself to being competitive in most games and road games even when shooting 35%.  Also, with "down" teams sans Pullen, Kelly, Clemente, we were still competitive.  On the downside, we were pretty limited offensively and it seems like good coaches schemed the crap out of us.     

With Weber, I'm not sure what we'll get.  He won with Southern Illinois players.  He won with Self's players.  He won with his own players.  He lost with his own players.  He's been on both ends of the spectrum.  So, it's possible that he'll fail to live up to Martin in every statistical category.  It's possible that he could exceed Martin.  I think he'll probably be somewhere in the middle.       

I'll mark you down for worse, worse, and better.

[WillieWatanabe]

Of course none of us want to go down that path because that is leading to mediocre basketball, but I trust that the fans and admin wouldn't let it go on more than 3 years. I think we've come far enough to this point that this is expected, but as long as Currie stays he will give his hire a fair shot as long as the program doesn't completely tank. If that makes you more frustrated, so be it, but that's where we are at.

The fans and admin have convinced themselves that a coach that SMU interviewed and turned down was a decent hire so I see no reason why the gradual downward slide of expectations will stop any time soon.

Link?

[michigancat]

Of course none of us want to go down that path because that is leading to mediocre basketball, but I trust that the fans and admin wouldn't let it go on more than 3 years. I think we've come far enough to this point that this is expected, but as long as Currie stays he will give his hire a fair shot as long as the program doesn't completely tank. If that makes you more frustrated, so be it, but that's where we are at.

The fans and admin have convinced themselves that a coach that SMU interviewed and turned down was a decent hire so I see no reason why the gradual downward slide of expectations will stop any time soon.

Link?

http://collegesportsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2012/03/source-smu-interviews-oscar-weber.html

so maybe I stretched the truth a bit. They just waited until 18 days after firing Doherty to interview oscar. I'm sure he was their first choice, though.

[Belvis Noland]

I'll mark you down for worse, worse, and better.

Put me down for "wait and see."  If you need something more definitive, put me down for "about the same." 

If Weber's first 3 years are as follows:  '12-'13: Conference Title + Sweet 16, '13-'14 NIT, '14-'15 NIT is he worse, better, or about the same as Martin, and why?     

[yosh]

Does anyone think Frank would've topped himself in those three categories over a second five years?

[kso_FAN]

Of course none of us want to go down that path because that is leading to mediocre basketball, but I trust that the fans and admin wouldn't let it go on more than 3 years. I think we've come far enough to this point that this is expected, but as long as Currie stays he will give his hire a fair shot as long as the program doesn't completely tank. If that makes you more frustrated, so be it, but that's where we are at.

The fans and admin have convinced themselves that a coach that SMU interviewed and turned down was a decent hire so I see no reason why the gradual downward slide of expectations will stop any time soon.

Link?

http://collegesportsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2012/03/source-smu-interviews-oscar-weber.html

so maybe I stretched the truth a bit. They just waited until 18 days after firing Doherty to interview oscar. I'm sure he was their first choice, though.

To your "decent hire" point; I'd say less than 10% of K-State fans thought he was a decent hire when they heard about it. But a majority have since said they're willing to give him a chance. I don't see why that equates with going back to mediocre expectations. I mean the talk of burning things down and firing Currie was nice, but it was never realistic. I'm on record that if things go south quickly I'll be all for making a change quickly, I think most of our fanbase will be the same. I think if Currie is still here he'll be the same, because if the resume talking point is remotely accurate, he won't want to sit on below average success at K-State with a coach he hired.