Author Topic: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread  (Read 111480 times)

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Offline Fedor

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #325 on: December 15, 2014, 11:14:53 AM »
For the record there's only one big 12 school playing on turf and to no surprise it's tech.
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Offline CHONGS

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #326 on: December 15, 2014, 11:33:17 AM »
Where are these studies from state agencies that say that rubber infill athletic playing surfaces cause cancer, or higher rates of cancer?


I am not making a claim one way or the other.  But, as the resident expert on these issues, I expect you should have a number of studies you can point us to. It would also be nice if you could summarize in your own words what scientific information you found most compelling (or perhaps weakest) about each study.

First off, it's just typical angered up passive aggressive Chingon at work, playing the "whatever Dax says, I'll say the opposite game". 

http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/publications/Documents/Tires/2010009.pdf

My biggest takeaways from that study and similar studies is that while surface temps on artificial grass in-fill fields are higher, just a few feet above the surface there's very little difference in air temps between modern artificial grass and  natural grass fields.    The study did say that rate of abrasion for college athletes was 2x to 3x higher on artificial surfaces.   However based on FIFA database research there are only 2 FIFA certified artificial grass pitches in California and it isn't known if they were part of the study.   Also appears to be lower levels of infection causing bacteria in artificial grass fields in this study as compared to studied natural turf surfaces.

If history is our guide, than the chances of K-State maintaining a pristine natural grass field throughout the course of an entire season with practice and games is about 50%.   I'll push that to 75% since we are in an era where K-State has more money than it had back when it had natural grass playing surfaces.   When K-State had grass in the football stadium it was only in decent condition by season end, at best.   When K-State had grass in the baseball stadium, teams used to complain about the infield all the time.     

Plus, I'm not saying that K-State should roll out any old artificial grass surface.
Wow swayed by one study.  One study from 2010 which was performed under a contract from the Department of Resources Recycling and Recovery (CalRecycle).  A study that says using recycled tires is A-OK.  I wonder what the consequences would be if the "scientists" had come to a different conclusion?  Just Asking Questions guys.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #327 on: December 15, 2014, 11:36:07 AM »
OEHHA in the pocket of big crumb rubber.


Offline CHONGS

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #328 on: December 15, 2014, 11:42:17 AM »
I would be grateful for your thoughts on dependence on VOC and air temperature dax.  I suspect most would believe (perhaps naively so) that the concentration of VOCs emitted into the air would increase with surface (or near surface) temperature.  Using your expertise, can you explain why this would be case?  I think most interesting would be your counter as to why this might not be the case (as found by this study). Why did they find that the concentrations did not depend (heavily) on temperature?  What physical/chemical phenomenon is occurring here that runs counter to what most people would expect?

Offline slobber

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #329 on: December 15, 2014, 11:43:05 AM »
Let's put in an '80's rubber gym floor at the Bram. Might be the only thing that would allow "The Octagon if Doom" to live on.


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Offline CHONGS

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #330 on: December 15, 2014, 11:46:13 AM »
OEHHA in the pocket of big crumb rubber.


gotta support those studies and grad students.   big recycling is paying for their existence.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #331 on: December 15, 2014, 11:52:38 AM »
I would be grateful for your thoughts on dependence on VOC and air temperature dax.  I suspect most would believe (perhaps naively so) that the concentration of VOCs emitted into the air would increase with surface (or near surface) temperature.  Using your expertise, can you explain why this would be case?  I think most interesting would be your counter as to why this might not be the case (as found by this study). Why did they find that the concentrations did not depend (heavily) on temperature?  What physical/chemical phenomenon is occurring here that runs counter to what most people would expect?

I knew it wouldn't be long before you pulled the smartest guy in the room card, Chin.

Now, tell me, what does any of what you said have anything to do with why K-State women's soccer should or shouldn't play on an artificial grass surface?

If you're predisposed to natural grass and since you are the smartest guy in the room could you please list the types of chemicals that are often needed to maintain a natural turf athletic field in Central Kansas.   Please note that would be the necessary chemicals to maintain a natural turf athletic field in Central Kansas at level that would afford above average, if not superior playing conditions in all climatic circumstances one can typically find in Central Kansas from August until the late Fall (let's pretend our Lady Soccer players are eventually going to be really good).   I can only guess what those chemicals might be, but surely you know.

Thanks

Chin, nice agenda, because we all know that there's a hell of a lot more money in crumb rubber research than there is in climate research.




Offline MakeItRain

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #332 on: December 15, 2014, 11:56:21 AM »
Colgate, St. John's, Florida International all have FIFA certified FieldTurf pitches.

Marshall has a FIFA certified AstroTurf (AstroTurf GT+) pitch

In order to maintain FIFA certification the fields have to be regularly tested by 3rd party testing companies.

So you're okay with our facilities meeting the exacting and nationally renowned standards such as Texas Tech, Marshall, Colgate, St. Johns, and FIU?

You can't just install an Artificial Grass field and call it FIFA certified.   Why is this so hard for you to understand?   

Henry, is one guy, who lives in non reality when it comes to well maintained, modern artificial grass fields.

And you just can't understand that FIFA certification of these fields have nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm even confused as to why you brought it up. Did that kbor agenda mention fifa? You ranted about people bitching about something that hasn't happened but then you brought in an element not in play. FIFA fields still bake in the sun and maim people.

Can you tell me how many high level fifa competitions have been played on these fifa fields?

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #333 on: December 15, 2014, 11:59:07 AM »
You implied that an artificial grass field would be a mistreatment of the Women's soccer program at K-State . . . please don't even attempt to say that you didn't.

FIFA certification takes into account testing for playability and safety . . . of course the 3rd party testing companies could also be in the hip pocket of big crumb rubber.

I'm saying that if K-State women's soccer is given a FIFA tested and certified artificial playing surface, that it will be perfectly fine.




Offline CHONGS

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #334 on: December 15, 2014, 12:02:57 PM »
I would be grateful for your thoughts on dependence on VOC and air temperature dax.  I suspect most would believe (perhaps naively so) that the concentration of VOCs emitted into the air would increase with surface (or near surface) temperature.  Using your expertise, can you explain why this would be case?  I think most interesting would be your counter as to why this might not be the case (as found by this study). Why did they find that the concentrations did not depend (heavily) on temperature?  What physical/chemical phenomenon is occurring here that runs counter to what most people would expect?

I knew it wouldn't be long before you pulled the smartest guy in the room card, Chin.

Now, tell me, what does any of what you said have anything to do with why K-State women's soccer should or shouldn't play on an artificial grass surface?

If you're predisposed to natural grass and since you are the smartest guy in the room could you please list the types of chemicals that are often needed to maintain a natural turf athletic field in Central Kansas.   Please note that would be the necessary chemicals to maintain a natural turf athletic field in Central Kansas at level that would afford above average, if not superior playing conditions in all climatic circumstances one can typically find in Central Kansas from August until the late Fall (let's pretend our Lady Soccer players are eventually going to be really good).   I can only guess what those chemicals might be, but surely you know.

Thanks

Chin, nice agenda, because we all know that there's a hell of a lot more money in crumb rubber research than there is in climate research.
I am not saying that rubber infill has any negative health effects when compared to natural grass. I am hoping you can convince me in the same way the studies you read convinced you that there is no need for concern.  I was also curious as to why you gulped down these studies with none of the skepticism in gov't funded studies I have come to expect from dax. (It's because they support your initial cause/belief, and that's OK.  Everyone does this to some extent).

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #335 on: December 15, 2014, 12:06:12 PM »
I would be grateful for your thoughts on dependence on VOC and air temperature dax.  I suspect most would believe (perhaps naively so) that the concentration of VOCs emitted into the air would increase with surface (or near surface) temperature.  Using your expertise, can you explain why this would be case?  I think most interesting would be your counter as to why this might not be the case (as found by this study). Why did they find that the concentrations did not depend (heavily) on temperature?  What physical/chemical phenomenon is occurring here that runs counter to what most people would expect?

I knew it wouldn't be long before you pulled the smartest guy in the room card, Chin.

Now, tell me, what does any of what you said have anything to do with why K-State women's soccer should or shouldn't play on an artificial grass surface?

If you're predisposed to natural grass and since you are the smartest guy in the room could you please list the types of chemicals that are often needed to maintain a natural turf athletic field in Central Kansas.   Please note that would be the necessary chemicals to maintain a natural turf athletic field in Central Kansas at level that would afford above average, if not superior playing conditions in all climatic circumstances one can typically find in Central Kansas from August until the late Fall (let's pretend our Lady Soccer players are eventually going to be really good).   I can only guess what those chemicals might be, but surely you know.

Thanks

Chin, nice agenda, because we all know that there's a hell of a lot more money in crumb rubber research than there is in climate research.
I am not saying that rubber infill has any negative health effects when compared to natural grass. I am hoping you can convince me in the same way the studies you read convinced you that there is no need for concern.

But didn't you ask me what convinced me in the studies?   Weird series of posts, kind of circular and flailing.


Offline EMAWican

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #336 on: December 15, 2014, 01:16:57 PM »
If a tire-fill soccer field is bad, you guys are gonna crap when you find out where else tire-fill is used. 

Almost half of Americans will get cancer.  Must be a lot of moonlighting artificial-surface soccer players.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #337 on: December 15, 2014, 02:35:22 PM »
You implied that an artificial grass field would be a mistreatment of the Women's soccer program at K-State . . . please don't even attempt to say that you didn't.

FIFA certification takes into account testing for playability and safety . . . of course the 3rd party testing companies could also be in the hip pocket of big crumb rubber.

I'm saying that if K-State women's soccer is given a FIFA tested and certified artificial playing surface, that it will be perfectly fine.

I didn't imply anything, I straight out said that, and I said it more than once. I've said it in other soccer conversations on this board, which is one of the reasons your FIFA lecture to me is hilarious. The safety issues I brought up don't come into play with that farcical FIFA certification.

I'll ask one more time, how many FIFA major competitions have been played on these FIFA certified surfaces? I'll answer for you, the answer is one. It was something like a U17 tournament played in South America over 5 years ago. The WWC in 2015 are playing on artificial surfaces and none of them have received the FIFA certification.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #338 on: December 15, 2014, 02:36:42 PM »
If a tire-fill soccer field is bad, you guys are gonna crap when you find out where else tire-fill is used. 

Almost half of Americans will get cancer.  Must be a lot of moonlighting artificial-surface soccer players.

There is a reason why only one conference school plays on a rug. There are schools that have artificial surfaces for football but not for soccer, maybe you should ask yourself why.

Offline EMAWican

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #339 on: December 15, 2014, 02:41:30 PM »
If a tire-fill soccer field is bad, you guys are gonna crap when you find out where else tire-fill is used. 

Almost half of Americans will get cancer.  Must be a lot of moonlighting artificial-surface soccer players.

There is a reason why only one conference school plays on a rug. There are schools that have artificial surfaces for football but not for soccer, maybe you should ask yourself why.

Maybe they don't want to have a Persian rug for a pud sport?

http://cafnr.missouri.edu/research/turfgrass-costs.php



Offline MakeItRain

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #340 on: December 15, 2014, 02:45:37 PM »
Also dax, if they have a practice field, the wear and tear on the fields will be far less. The bigger concern is the amount of water that will be needed in late July-early September to maintain them. As you rightly pointed out earlier poorly maintained grass can be just a dangerous as turf. I have a lifetime scar on my leg from playing one game on a baked field and I was the keeper, my teammates looked like they were attacked by cheese graters.

Offline slobber

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #341 on: December 15, 2014, 02:48:45 PM »

Also dax, if they have a practice field, the wear and tear on the fields will be far less. The bigger concern is the amount of water that will be needed in late July-early September to maintain them. As you rightly pointed out earlier poorly maintained grass can be just a dangerous as turf. I have a lifetime scar on my leg from playing one game on a baked field and I was the keeper, my teammates looked like they were attacked by cheese graters.
I didn't think black people scarred?





(Too far?)


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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #342 on: December 15, 2014, 02:49:58 PM »
If a tire-fill soccer field is bad, you guys are gonna crap when you find out where else tire-fill is used. 

Almost half of Americans will get cancer.  Must be a lot of moonlighting artificial-surface soccer players.

There is a reason why only one conference school plays on a rug. There are schools that have artificial surfaces for football but not for soccer, maybe you should ask yourself why.

Hmm, West Texas climate maybe?   :rolleyes:

Have you even been on a high end FieldTurf or AstroTurf field?


Offline MakeItRain

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #343 on: December 15, 2014, 02:50:35 PM »
If a tire-fill soccer field is bad, you guys are gonna crap when you find out where else tire-fill is used. 

Almost half of Americans will get cancer.  Must be a lot of moonlighting artificial-surface soccer players.

There is a reason why only one conference school plays on a rug. There are schools that have artificial surfaces for football but not for soccer, maybe you should ask yourself why.

Maybe they don't want to have a Persian rug for a pud sport?

http://cafnr.missouri.edu/research/turfgrass-costs.php

The old, I'm going to come into a soccer thread to tell people that soccer sucks, fantastic.

Offline EMAWican

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #344 on: December 15, 2014, 02:56:33 PM »
If a tire-fill soccer field is bad, you guys are gonna crap when you find out where else tire-fill is used. 

Almost half of Americans will get cancer.  Must be a lot of moonlighting artificial-surface soccer players.

There is a reason why only one conference school plays on a rug. There are schools that have artificial surfaces for football but not for soccer, maybe you should ask yourself why.

Maybe they don't want to have a Persian rug for a pud sport?

http://cafnr.missouri.edu/research/turfgrass-costs.php

The old, I'm going to come into a soccer thread to tell people that soccer sucks, fantastic.

Read the rough ridin' link so we can have a conversation on why K-State chose artificial turf.  The VOCs from tirefill is going to kill our soccer players in a soccer thread was bad enough.   

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #345 on: December 15, 2014, 03:01:15 PM »
Boston College Soccer and Lacrosse . . . now playing on AstroTurf Gameday Grass 3D


Offline MakeItRain

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #346 on: December 15, 2014, 03:07:12 PM »
If a tire-fill soccer field is bad, you guys are gonna crap when you find out where else tire-fill is used. 

Almost half of Americans will get cancer.  Must be a lot of moonlighting artificial-surface soccer players.

There is a reason why only one conference school plays on a rug. There are schools that have artificial surfaces for football but not for soccer, maybe you should ask yourself why.

Hmm, West Texas climate maybe?   :rolleyes:

Have you even been on a high end FieldTurf or AstroTurf field?

UTEP, UNM, NMSU, U of A, ASU, USC, and UCLA all play on grass.

Also I've played on fieldturf, I'm not sure how relevant that is to this conversation though.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #347 on: December 15, 2014, 03:11:07 PM »
If a tire-fill soccer field is bad, you guys are gonna crap when you find out where else tire-fill is used. 

Almost half of Americans will get cancer.  Must be a lot of moonlighting artificial-surface soccer players.

There is a reason why only one conference school plays on a rug. There are schools that have artificial surfaces for football but not for soccer, maybe you should ask yourself why.

Maybe they don't want to have a Persian rug for a pud sport?

http://cafnr.missouri.edu/research/turfgrass-costs.php

The old, I'm going to come into a soccer thread to tell people that soccer sucks, fantastic.

Read the rough ridin' link so we can have a conversation on why K-State chose artificial turf.  The VOCs from tirefill is going to kill our soccer players in a soccer thread was bad enough.

I read the link dipshit, K-State hasn't chosen anything yet. No one said anything about anyone dying. Read better.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #348 on: December 15, 2014, 03:12:16 PM »
If the droughts in those areas persist they may have to move to artificial grass.   

I was just curious, because you act like these fields are like the old AstroTurf fields.   

Marshall is a FIFA 1 Star Certified Pitch, the highest is 2 stars.   A German company produces a turf that often gets 2 Star FIFA ratings, of course it's not just he surface itself that gets the rating, it's the entire installation. 

Lessor version of what Texas Tech has from AstroTurf received a 1 Star FIFA certification in Leesburg, VA.


Offline MakeItRain

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Re: First Official K-State Women's Soccer Thread
« Reply #349 on: December 15, 2014, 03:23:41 PM »
If the droughts in those areas persist they may have to move to artificial grass.   

I was just curious, because you act like these fields are like the old AstroTurf fields.   

Marshall is a FIFA 1 Star Certified Pitch, the highest is 2 stars.   A German company produces a turf that often gets 2 Star FIFA ratings, of course it's not just he surface itself that gets the rating, it's the entire installation. 

Lessor version of what Texas Tech has from AstroTurf received a 1 Star FIFA certification in Leesburg, VA.

I'm not acting like anything. Maybe you're not reading but I have specifically talked about the temperature of the artificial surfaces (they have been recorded at 130 degrees +), the increased occurrences of serious skin abrasions, and the POSSIBILITY of carcinogens in the surface. All of these things are issues with any fieldturf surface, fifa certified or not