Rep. Gabriella Gifford

[AzCat]

As leftist ass-clownery goes that's pretty standard fare.  Nothing more there than the typical shotgun blast of lefty memes supported by much emotional hand-wringing. 

[Paul Moscow]

You guys are right on target surveyor's symbol with this one.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Ass clownery reaches new heights

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110113/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot_arizona

I only read the first half, but its enough to "get the picture".  The comments are more thoughtful and insightful than the article (first time ever I'm guessing).

 You got farther through it than I did, but I found this funny:

Just as the tragedy has prompted national politicians and citizens elsewhere to rethink who we are and where we're going as a country, it has left some here questioning the identity and ideals of a state that has come to exemplify a radical, antiestablishment, we'll-do-things-our-way approach to governing.

Like trying to enforce federal law, that kind of anti establishment?

[AzCat]

I made it as far as the part where the author suggested that requiring a safety class prior to allowing concealed carry would have prevented the Tucson shootings.   

[wetwillie]

I made it as far as the part where the author suggested that requiring a safety class prior to allowing concealed carry would have prevented the Tucson shootings.   

Was thinking about this earlier today and it seems like someone with a concealed weapon might have been able to at least deter a few of the injuries or deaths by shooting this guy.  I have not read enough to know what he was carrying or how much time went down between the first shot and the last so maybe even someone else with a gun wouldn't have been able to stop him.  You hate to see someone with a concealed weapon pull it out and then not have the ability or nerve to use it properly and just end up hurting more people.  Guns are a pretty tricky issue.

[AzCat]

Was thinking about this earlier today and it seems like someone with a concealed weapon might have been able to at least deter a few of the injuries or deaths by shooting this guy.  I have not read enough to know what he was carrying or how much time went down between the first shot and the last so maybe even someone else with a gun wouldn't have been able to stop him.  You hate to see someone with a concealed weapon pull it out and then not have the ability or nerve to use it properly and just end up hurting more people.  Guns are a pretty tricky issue.

I don't disagree with any of that but it's pretty much moot since concealed carry is presently legal in AZ with no permit.  The author of the linked piece frets about all sorts of gun law issues but fails utterly to note that Arizona prohibits the mentally ill from owning or purchasing firearms thus the legal stance in AZ is already where it needs to be to do everything a gun law can possibly to do prevent this sort of event from happening (to be clear: the best a gun law can do is prohibit a legal purchase, nothing more).  The failures are in Sheriff's Dupnik Dept. and Pima CC's unwillingness to get the shooter into the system and have him adjudged mentally ill in time for the law to have its intended effect.  No need to penalize citizens for what seems a clear failure of government.

[Sugar Dick]

Was watching a basketball game last night.  Guy made a shot and the announcer said, "Bulls Eye!"

 

I think it was a Wizards game (formerly the Bullets).  So the next time someone gets shot in the former murder capital of the U.S., a city with the most restrictive gun laws, it'll be his fault, and the city will need to rethink its overly restrictive stance on guns. 

At approximately 4-5 murders a week, it shouldn't be too long before this story breaks.

[ednksu]

Was thinking about this earlier today and it seems like someone with a concealed weapon might have been able to at least deter a few of the injuries or deaths by shooting this guy.  I have not read enough to know what he was carrying or how much time went down between the first shot and the last so maybe even someone else with a gun wouldn't have been able to stop him.  You hate to see someone with a concealed weapon pull it out and then not have the ability or nerve to use it properly and just end up hurting more people.  Guns are a pretty tricky issue.

I don't disagree with any of that but it's pretty much moot since concealed carry is presently legal in AZ with no permit.  The author of the linked piece frets about all sorts of gun law issues but fails utterly to note that Arizona prohibits the mentally ill from owning or purchasing firearms thus the legal stance in AZ is already where it needs to be to do everything a gun law can possibly to do prevent this sort of event from happening (to be clear: the best a gun law can do is prohibit a legal purchase, nothing more).  The failures are in Sheriff's Dupnik Dept. and Pima CC's unwillingness to get the shooter into the system and have him adjudged mentally ill in time for the law to have its intended effect.  No need to penalize citizens for what seems a clear failure of government.

I agree.  People fail to not that there were reports of several CCW people that rushed to the shooting.  One guy (kinda schumkish) did exactly what you are suppose to do.  Thought he saw a shooter, verbally ordered the weapon to be dropped and when it was most important put his weapon away when he realized he his weapon was escalating the situation instead of resolving it.  He realized he was not approaching the shooter but another good sumerian who had taken the gun.  The CCW guy put his weapon away because he feared he would be IDed as a second shooter.  He didn't fire, no one fired at him.  Shame he wasn't a second or two earlier and maybe someone could have stopped the loon a bit earlier. 


And the wacko had a glock 19 (I think) with an extended mag that isn't made anymore (i think).  I know the mags were banned for a little while with the Clinton ban.  He was unable to reload and chamber his weapon before people intervened.   You can easily go through 30+ in under 10-15 seconds.

[AzCat]

And the wacko had a glock 19 (I think) with an extended mag that isn't made anymore (i think).  I know the mags were banned for a little while with the Clinton ban.  He was unable to reload and chamber his weapon before people intervened.   You can easily go through 30+ in under 10-15 seconds.

The Clinton ban on extended mags was kind of a joke.  It, IIRC, prohibited the manufacture, importation & sale of newly made mags but not the possession, and I believe also not the transfer among individuals, of those already floating around out there.  It had the effect of creating a massive spike in the sales of extended mags and driving their price up going forward but it didn't prevent anyone who wanted one from acquiring one.  Fact is that we're not going to make the tens of millions already in circulation contraband and their owners felons so any newly-minted ban will similarly have no practical impact.  And, as a practical matter, a new ban on extended mags wouldn't prevent a shooter from simply bringing multiple weapons as we've seen them do in these situations in the past. 

[Paul Moscow]

I actually agree with you guys. It can't be any more illegal than it already is to shoot a congresswoman in the head.

The fact of the matter is that the National Instant Criminal Background Check System hasn't been able to acquire names of mentally and criminally ill persons from states as well as it should. Reading an article in Time that stated that 121,000 persons in Arizona meet the mentally defective criteria but from the beginning of 2008 to Oct. 2010 only 4,000 names have been submitted by the state to the system. Nebraska, Pennsylvania and Louisiana have only submitted 1 name combined in that same time period.

Here's the list of  prohibitions:

Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year
Is under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year
Is a fugitive from justice
Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance
Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution
Is illegally or unlawfully in the United States
Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions
Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced U.S. citizenship
Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner
Has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence

[Sugar Dick]

I actually agree with you guys. It can't be any more illegal than it already is to shoot a congresswoman in the head.

The fact of the matter is that the National Instant Criminal Background Check System hasn't been able to acquire names of mentally and criminally ill persons from states as well as it should. Reading an article in Time that stated that 121,000 persons in Arizona meet the mentally defective criteria but from the beginning of 2008 to Oct. 2010 only 4,000 names have been submitted by the state to the system. Nebraska, Pennsylvania and Louisiana have only submitted 1 name combined in that same time period.

Here's the list of  prohibitions:

Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year
Is under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year
Is a fugitive from justice
Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance
Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution
Is illegally or unlawfully in the United States
Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions
Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced U.S. citizenship
Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner
Has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence

Probably a HIPPA thing

[Jeffy]

The sheriff is now an urban dictionary legend.



http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dupnik

[AzCat]

Tucson shooter garden variety Bush-hating lefty:

He became intrigued by antigovernment conspiracy theories, including that the Sept. 11 attacks were perpetrated by the government .... His anger would well up at the sight of President George W. Bush, or in discussing what he considered to be the nefarious designs of government.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Tucson shooter garden variety Bush-hating lefty:

He became intrigued by antigovernment conspiracy theories, including that the Sept. 11 attacks were perpetrated by the government .... His anger would well up at the sight of President George W. Bush, or in discussing what he considered to be the nefarious designs of government.

The lefties have finally figured out he is one of them. The silence from the media is deafening.   

[AzCat]

Tucson shooter garden variety Bush-hating lefty:

He became intrigued by antigovernment conspiracy theories, including that the Sept. 11 attacks were perpetrated by the government .... His anger would well up at the sight of President George W. Bush, or in discussing what he considered to be the nefarious designs of government.

The lefties have finally figured out he is one of them. The silence from the media is deafening.   

Should probably get Krugman, Gore, Obama, et al. in for psychiatric evaluations stat.   

[Rage Against the McKee]

Tucson shooter garden variety Bush-hating lefty:

He became intrigued by antigovernment conspiracy theories, including that the Sept. 11 attacks were perpetrated by the government .... His anger would well up at the sight of President George W. Bush, or in discussing what he considered to be the nefarious designs of government.

The lefties have finally figured out he is one of them. The silence from the media is deafening.   

 

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Tucson shooter garden variety Bush-hating lefty:

He became intrigued by antigovernment conspiracy theories, including that the Sept. 11 attacks were perpetrated by the government .... His anger would well up at the sight of President George W. Bush, or in discussing what he considered to be the nefarious designs of government.

The lefties have finally figured out he is one of them. The silence from the media is deafening.   

 

   YES, this is what the media looked like last week trying to tie Palin and the vast right wing conspiracy to the shootings.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Maybe the media isn't giving the shooting more coverage now because it's an old story.

Certain members of the media looked just as ridiculous trying to tie Palin to the shootings as Bill O'Reilly does when he claims that there is a war on Christmas. Sarah Palin had the opportunity to take the high road and gain some much needed respect. Instead, she wrote a speech claiming she was the victim of blood libel.

[Paul Moscow]

Tucson shooter garden variety Bush-hating lefty:

He became intrigued by antigovernment conspiracy theories, including that the Sept. 11 attacks were perpetrated by the government .... His anger would well up at the sight of President George W. Bush, or in discussing what he considered to be the nefarious designs of government.

The lefties have finally figured out he is one of them. The silence from the media is deafening.  

You realize that those who are anti-govenrment (at least those who haven't been sandbagged into becoming tea party members) typically maintain this position regardless of what party is in power? This kid, given his loosely held ability to understand what the hell was going on around him, seemed to subscribe (a stretch given his mental state) to the New World Order, Alex Jones, Trilateral Commission, paranoid, conspiracy subculture. These movements don't hold affiliations to the major political parties. They never will. Saying that he is anti-bush therefore he is a lefty is disingenuous. There are righties who were anti-Bush. Just like there are lefties who are anti-government.  

Someone before mentioned the doc Loose Change. The Obama Deception and Zeitgeist pushes these theories even further. No one could describe these docs as "hit pieces" on either party  it takes a broad stake against the government.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Tucson shooter garden variety Bush-hating lefty:

He became intrigued by antigovernment conspiracy theories, including that the Sept. 11 attacks were perpetrated by the government .... His anger would well up at the sight of President George W. Bush, or in discussing what he considered to be the nefarious designs of government.

The lefties have finally figured out he is one of them. The silence from the media is deafening.  

You realize that those who are anti-govenrment (at least those who haven't been sandbagged into becoming tea party members) typically maintain this position regardless of what party is in power? This kid, given his loosely held ability to understand what the hell was going on around him, seemed to subscribe (a stretch given his mental state) to the New World Order, Alex Jones, Trilateral Commission, paranoid, conspiracy subculture. These movements don't hold affiliations to the major political parties. They never will. Saying that he is anti-bush therefore he is a lefty is disingenuous. There are righties who were anti-Bush. Just like there are lefties who are anti-government.  

Someone before mentioned the doc Loose Change. The Obama Deception and Zeitgeist pushes these theories even further. No one could describe these docs as "hit pieces" on either party  it takes a broad stake against the government.

How can you be a lefty and anti-government?  To whom are you going to pay your taxes to support free-loaders?

[Paul Moscow]

Tucson shooter garden variety Bush-hating lefty:

He became intrigued by antigovernment conspiracy theories, including that the Sept. 11 attacks were perpetrated by the government .... His anger would well up at the sight of President George W. Bush, or in discussing what he considered to be the nefarious designs of government.

The lefties have finally figured out he is one of them. The silence from the media is deafening.  

You realize that those who are anti-govenrment (at least those who haven't been sandbagged into becoming tea party members) typically maintain this position regardless of what party is in power? This kid, given his loosely held ability to understand what the hell was going on around him, seemed to subscribe (a stretch given his mental state) to the New World Order, Alex Jones, Trilateral Commission, paranoid, conspiracy subculture. These movements don't hold affiliations to the major political parties. They never will. Saying that he is anti-bush therefore he is a lefty is disingenuous. There are righties who were anti-Bush. Just like there are lefties who are anti-government.  

Someone before mentioned the doc Loose Change. The Obama Deception and Zeitgeist pushes these theories even further. No one could describe these docs as "hit pieces" on either party  it takes a broad stake against the government.

How can you be a lefty and anti-government?  To whom are you going to pay your taxes to support free-loaders?

You've never heard of any far-left group ousting  or attempting to overthrow a government before? In the USA there are many leftists who clandestinely support the ousting of governments or leaders therein.

You can check out that slight newsmaker, Wikileaks for more information.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Tucson shooter garden variety Bush-hating lefty:

He became intrigued by antigovernment conspiracy theories, including that the Sept. 11 attacks were perpetrated by the government .... His anger would well up at the sight of President George W. Bush, or in discussing what he considered to be the nefarious designs of government.

The lefties have finally figured out he is one of them. The silence from the media is deafening.  

You realize that those who are anti-govenrment (at least those who haven't been sandbagged into becoming tea party members) typically maintain this position regardless of what party is in power? This kid, given his loosely held ability to understand what the hell was going on around him, seemed to subscribe (a stretch given his mental state) to the New World Order, Alex Jones, Trilateral Commission, paranoid, conspiracy subculture. These movements don't hold affiliations to the major political parties. They never will. Saying that he is anti-bush therefore he is a lefty is disingenuous. There are righties who were anti-Bush. Just like there are lefties who are anti-government.  

Someone before mentioned the doc Loose Change. The Obama Deception and Zeitgeist pushes these theories even further. No one could describe these docs as "hit pieces" on either party  it takes a broad stake against the government.

How can you be a lefty and anti-government?  To whom are you going to pay your taxes to support free-loaders?

You've never heard of any far-left group ousting  or attempting to overthrow a government before? In the USA there are many leftists who clandestinely support the ousting of governments or leaders therein.

You can check out that slight newsmaker, Wikileaks for more information.

Perhaps, but don't they then install there own socialist government and rob the people in the name of "helping the little man", while lining their own pockets with billions? (see Hugo Chavez)

[Paul Moscow]

Tucson shooter garden variety Bush-hating lefty:

He became intrigued by antigovernment conspiracy theories, including that the Sept. 11 attacks were perpetrated by the government .... His anger would well up at the sight of President George W. Bush, or in discussing what he considered to be the nefarious designs of government.

The lefties have finally figured out he is one of them. The silence from the media is deafening.  

You realize that those who are anti-govenrment (at least those who haven't been sandbagged into becoming tea party members) typically maintain this position regardless of what party is in power? This kid, given his loosely held ability to understand what the hell was going on around him, seemed to subscribe (a stretch given his mental state) to the New World Order, Alex Jones, Trilateral Commission, paranoid, conspiracy subculture. These movements don't hold affiliations to the major political parties. They never will. Saying that he is anti-bush therefore he is a lefty is disingenuous. There are righties who were anti-Bush. Just like there are lefties who are anti-government.  

Someone before mentioned the doc Loose Change. The Obama Deception and Zeitgeist pushes these theories even further. No one could describe these docs as "hit pieces" on either party  it takes a broad stake against the government.

How can you be a lefty and anti-government?  To whom are you going to pay your taxes to support free-loaders?

You've never heard of any far-left group ousting  or attempting to overthrow a government before? In the USA there are many leftists who clandestinely support the ousting of governments or leaders therein.

You can check out that slight newsmaker, Wikileaks for more information.

Perhaps, but don't they then install there own socialist government and rob the people in the name of "helping the little man", while lining their own pockets with billions? (see Hugo Chavez)

I'd agree. The cycle repeats itself again and again throughout the world. Slightly OT.

Anyways, Loughner isn't a 'garden variety, bush-hating lefty" as Azcat claims him to be. Applaud his copying/pasting selective tidbits in order to make it look that way, however.

Basically doing the same thing he's accusing the left of doing. But that's not lost on him. Neither is the fact that Azcat has spent time calling Loughner a "nutjob" or a "lunatic" while simultaneously pretending Loughner's non-existent right/left political ideology is perfectly lucid..... but only when it suits him.....Can't have it both ways.

[Louises West]

Tucson shooter garden variety Bush-hating lefty:

He became intrigued by antigovernment conspiracy theories, including that the Sept. 11 attacks were perpetrated by the government .... His anger would well up at the sight of President George W. Bush, or in discussing what he considered to be the nefarious designs of government.

The lefties have finally figured out he is one of them. The silence from the media is deafening.  

You realize that those who are anti-govenrment (at least those who haven't been sandbagged into becoming tea party members) typically maintain this position regardless of what party is in power? This kid, given his loosely held ability to understand what the hell was going on around him, seemed to subscribe (a stretch given his mental state) to the New World Order, Alex Jones, Trilateral Commission, paranoid, conspiracy subculture. These movements don't hold affiliations to the major political parties. They never will. Saying that he is anti-bush therefore he is a lefty is disingenuous. There are righties who were anti-Bush. Just like there are lefties who are anti-government.  

Someone before mentioned the doc Loose Change. The Obama Deception and Zeitgeist pushes these theories even further. No one could describe these docs as "hit pieces" on either party  it takes a broad stake against the government.

How can you be a lefty and anti-government?  To whom are you going to pay your taxes to support free-loaders?

this is full of fail.  govt acts we are against:

govt. starting 2 failed wars
govt. failed patriot act, govt run tsa, dept of homeland security etc...
govt. blocking equal rights for gays
govt. enforced war on drugs
govt. tax cuts to rich people who dont need nor deserve them.
govt. failed response to katrina
govt.  trying to regulate health insurance instead of providing health care(single payer)
govt. loosening regulations, allowing lobbying


you are really too stupid to pinpoint govt acts the left disagrees with?

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Tucson shooter garden variety Bush-hating lefty:

He became intrigued by antigovernment conspiracy theories, including that the Sept. 11 attacks were perpetrated by the government .... His anger would well up at the sight of President George W. Bush, or in discussing what he considered to be the nefarious designs of government.

The lefties have finally figured out he is one of them. The silence from the media is deafening.  

You realize that those who are anti-govenrment (at least those who haven't been sandbagged into becoming tea party members) typically maintain this position regardless of what party is in power? This kid, given his loosely held ability to understand what the hell was going on around him, seemed to subscribe (a stretch given his mental state) to the New World Order, Alex Jones, Trilateral Commission, paranoid, conspiracy subculture. These movements don't hold affiliations to the major political parties. They never will. Saying that he is anti-bush therefore he is a lefty is disingenuous. There are righties who were anti-Bush. Just like there are lefties who are anti-government.  

Someone before mentioned the doc Loose Change. The Obama Deception and Zeitgeist pushes these theories even further. No one could describe these docs as "hit pieces" on either party  it takes a broad stake against the government.

How can you be a lefty and anti-government?  To whom are you going to pay your taxes to support free-loaders?

this is full of fail.  govt acts we are against:

govt. starting 2 failed wars
govt. failed patriot act, govt run tsa, dept of homeland security etc...
govt. blocking equal rights for gays
govt. enforced war on drugs
govt. tax cuts to rich people who dont need nor deserve them.
govt. failed response to katrina gulf oil spill
govt.  trying to regulate health insurance instead of providing health care(single payer)
govt. loosening regulations, allowing lobbying


you are really too stupid to pinpoint govt acts the left disagrees with?

So you are full-on anti Obama. Good for you.