Author Topic: "Obamacare"  (Read 321215 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Kat Kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 20517
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3000 on: May 07, 2017, 07:43:11 AM »
I have elderly relatives who go to the doctor because they are bored.  Like 3-4 times a week.  How to stop that?

Death panels

Medicare is desperately in need of reform and probably the single biggest driver of our deficits. People tend to use more of something, even if they don't really need it, when it is "Free." You solve that by gradually converting Medicare into a voucher aka "premium support" program that still provides a generous subsidy but isn't unlimited. Serious policy people generally support this plan. Democrats see an opportunity to score political points so it has very little chance of happening.

What happens when someone gets a catastrophic illness or a disease that requires lots of maintenance care?

Why is the US literally the only rich country in the world that needs this bizarre, health care system that is extremely complicated and provides fewer people with health care, for more money?

Offline SdK

  • Libertine
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 20951
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3001 on: May 07, 2017, 07:48:22 AM »
Maga

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

  • Racist Piece of Shit
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 18431
  • Kiss my ass and suck my dick
    • View Profile
    • I am the one and only Sugar Dick
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3002 on: May 07, 2017, 11:55:52 AM »
I have elderly relatives who go to the doctor because they are bored.  Like 3-4 times a week.  How to stop that?

Death panels

Medicare is desperately in need of reform and probably the single biggest driver of our deficits. People tend to use more of something, even if they don't really need it, when it is "Free." You solve that by gradually converting Medicare into a voucher aka "premium support" program that still provides a generous subsidy but isn't unlimited. Serious policy people generally support this plan. Democrats see an opportunity to score political points so it has very little chance of happening.

What happens when someone gets a catastrophic illness or a disease that requires lots of maintenance care?

Why is the US literally the only rich country in the world that needs this bizarre, health care system that is extremely complicated and provides fewer people with health care, for more money?

Their health insurance pays for it, just like it always has. If they don't have health insurance because they are stupid, they still get care and lose all their nonexempt assets in bankruptcy. Nobody is dying in the street.

In other rich countries it's okay to be stupid because those countries still use a feudal serfdom system and 95% of the citizens are unable to accumulate any assets or wealth in their lifetime, thus have nothing to lose but nothing to gain from the piece of mind of not having to take an hour once a year to enroll for health insurance
goEMAW Karmic BBS Shepherd

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 10040
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3003 on: May 07, 2017, 11:58:06 AM »
I have elderly relatives who go to the doctor because they are bored.  Like 3-4 times a week.  How to stop that?

Death panels

Medicare is desperately in need of reform and probably the single biggest driver of our deficits. People tend to use more of something, even if they don't really need it, when it is "Free." You solve that by gradually converting Medicare into a voucher aka "premium support" program that still provides a generous subsidy but isn't unlimited. Serious policy people generally support this plan. Democrats see an opportunity to score political points so it has very little chance of happening.

What happens when someone gets a catastrophic illness or a disease that requires lots of maintenance care?

Why is the US literally the only rich country in the world that needs this bizarre, health care system that is extremely complicated and provides fewer people with health care, for more money?

People would still receive the subsidy, which would allow them to buy insurance for exactly such catastrophic events (which is what insurance is for) plus some out of pocket expenses for routine care. About the only seniors who would be "harmed" by a subsidy system are the extremely heavy users of routine care. The walk-in bathtub business and other groups that depend upon the absurd largess of Medicare would take a hit.

I'm not interested in debating the merits of socialized medicine with you. If you. Want to believe that Medicaid for all wouldn't require a massive tax increase while further jeopardizing the quality of healthcare and availability of doctors, particularly speciality docs, go right ahead and live in your fantasy land.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40544
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3004 on: May 07, 2017, 05:58:45 PM »
Why is the US literally the only rich country in the world that needs this bizarre, health care system?

one does not become exceptional by copying others.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

  • Racist Piece of Shit
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 18431
  • Kiss my ass and suck my dick
    • View Profile
    • I am the one and only Sugar Dick
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3005 on: May 07, 2017, 07:52:55 PM »
Quote
NOLAN FINLEY
Finley: Obamacare lies keep coming
Facebook
Twitter
Email
Aa
_
+
Nolan Finley | The Detroit News
11:06 p.m. ET May 6, 2017
Democrats lied to Americans to get Obamacare passed, and they’re still lying about it today.

Only worse, because now their whoppers are aimed at keeping Republicans from cleaning up the rock-hard mess Democrats made of the health insurance market.
The current big lie is that the GOP’s Obamacare fix, passed by the House last week, would strip millions of America’s most vulnerable citizens of health insurance and drive up premiums for those who manage to keep coverage.
Obamacare is already doing that, thanks to the economic naivety of the Democrats who crafted the law.
In 11 states last year, average premiums rose by 40 percent or more. Obamacare exchanges across the country are in crisis because insurers are bailing out, burned by the unfulfilled promises of the Affordable Care Act. Unchecked Medicaid expansion is ravaging state budgets.
Deductibles and co-pays are so high they’ve made insurance policies useless for much of the middle class. Money that might have fattened paychecks is being diverted by employers into rapidly rising health insurance premiums.
Democrats and their media chorus are pushing the canard that heartless Republicans are ending protection for the sickest Americans, including those with pre-existing conditions. The GOP plan doesn’t do that.
Mandates remain in place for guaranteed coverage, and for controlling premium prices for those most at risk. It does allow states to seek waivers if they believe they can craft better plans for less money, but only if they agree to tap into a $100 billion high-risk pool.
That pool will shift the burden of subsidizing the sickest policyholders from their healthier neighbors to the federal government, which promises to both lower premiums and end the unsavory practice of insurers filtering out the costliest customers with onerous co-pays and deductibles. It could fix a major Obamacare cost driver.

Democrats, on the other hand, offer nothing than a demand to “spend more money.”
Cost of Obamacare to federal taxpayers rose to $110 billion in 2016. What are they getting for that money? President Barack Obama sold Obamacare on the promise that it would provide coverage to the 45 million, or 15 percent, of Americans who lacked it in 2009.
Not even close. Seven years later, 28.4 million people, or roughly 10 percent of the population, remain uninsured, according to the National Center for Health Statistics.
So Obamacare upended the insurance market for all Americans, and sharply drove up their health care costs, to reduce the number of uninsured by 5 percentage points, or just under 17 million people. We could have let the market be and given all of the uninsured vouchers for private plans and produced a better outcome.
House Minority leader Nancy Pelosi predicts Republicans will pay a high price at the ballot box for trying to relieve taxpayers of the Obamacare burden, saying this bill will be a “tattoo” on their foreheads.

She knows something about that. The Affordable Care Act she championed has tattooed “Loser” on scores of Democrats over the past three election cycles, and cost the party control of Congress and the White House.
Their GOP replacements were sent to Washington by voters who are tired of being lied to, and want what they were promised: Affordable, effective health insurance.
Republicans must tune out the hysteria and give it to them.
[email protected]
goEMAW Karmic BBS Shepherd

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 10040
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3006 on: May 08, 2017, 12:59:57 PM »
Why is the US literally the only rich country in the world that needs this bizarre, health care system?

one does not become exceptional by copying others.

Also, I agree that our healthcare system is bizarre. But the answer is not socialized medicine. This isn't an either/or propostiion. The better solution is to return health insurance to the proper role of insurance instead of being the primary purchaser of all healthcare (we'll actually Medicare is, but you see my point).
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline SdK

  • Libertine
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 20951
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3007 on: May 08, 2017, 02:02:25 PM »
Who pays for all the uninsured that have babies?

Offline Kat Kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 20517
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3008 on: May 08, 2017, 02:11:25 PM »
Why is the US literally the only rich country in the world that needs this bizarre, health care system?

one does not become exceptional by copying others.

Also, I agree that our healthcare system is bizarre. But the answer is not socialized medicine. This isn't an either/or propostiion. The better solution is to return health insurance to the proper role of insurance instead of being the primary purchaser of all healthcare (we'll actually Medicare is, but you see my point).

Then why has literally every other similary situated country, faced with the same options, chosen some form of socialized or nationalized medicine?
AND GETS BETTER OUTCOMES FOR MUCH LESS COST BECAUSE THERE AREN'T PROFITS BEING EXTRACTED BY PRIVATE COMPANIES!


Offline kim carnes

  • chingon!
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 13591
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3009 on: May 08, 2017, 02:25:56 PM »
Better outcomes eh?

Offline Kat Kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 20517
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3010 on: May 08, 2017, 02:28:00 PM »
Better outcomes eh?

According to all public health data I'm aware of. Feel free to unskew the data.

Offline Dr Rick Daris

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 23383
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3011 on: May 08, 2017, 02:31:35 PM »
the answer is that there should absolutely be medicare for all. this shouldn't even be a debate. people in countries with similar healthcare systems would never trade what they have for what we have today or had ten years ago. but the problem is that most people are too stupid and uninformed to understand that. so they say things like ksu just said. they say that healthcare is "bizarre" but that the answer isn't medicare for all. you can't be an expert in everything but that won't stop most from pretending they are.

this latest bill is nothing more than a tax cut for the super rich that is being funded by both taking away and lessening the amount of healthcare for the poor, middle class and people with pre-existing conditions. as it is, it won't get passed by the senate and whatever ends up happening won't have much of an immediate direct effect for the majority of people on this board (myself included). the house had the chance to pass something and it did because the majority of them spent the last 8 years convincing the people who vote for them that it was horrible.

Offline cfbandyman

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 9446
  • To da 'ville.
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3012 on: May 08, 2017, 03:35:11 PM »
the answer is that there should absolutely be medicare for all. this shouldn't even be a debate. people in countries with similar healthcare systems would never trade what they have for what we have today or had ten years ago. but the problem is that most people are too stupid and uninformed to understand that. so they say things like ksu just said. they say that healthcare is "bizarre" but that the answer isn't medicare for all. you can't be an expert in everything but that won't stop most from pretending they are.

this latest bill is nothing more than a tax cut for the super rich that is being funded by both taking away and lessening the amount of healthcare for the poor, middle class and people with pre-existing conditions. as it is, it won't get passed by the senate and whatever ends up happening won't have much of an immediate direct effect for the majority of people on this board (myself included). the house had the chance to pass something and it did because the majority of them spent the last 8 years convincing the people who vote for them that it was horrible.

Yup, single payer (medicare for all) is pretty much the superior way to go. Canada, France, UK, Germany, all nordic countries laugh at our terrible system, and trying to provide some subsidies or credits or w/e is just junking up an already terrible system. We pay out the nose for a horrible system, and the pubs answer is to make it even worse. People freak out at "socialized" medicine, simply cause it's da gubernment. Canada still keeps pretty damn high standards, there is no drop off in emergency services, and the only longer lines are in elective items, which are elective.



Ton of cool explanations of all the different healthcare systems vs. the US on that channel. Though probably to ksu, fsd, et al it's fake news. But spoiler alert, US is basically ridiculed on vs all the others.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 07:44:34 PM by cfbandyman »
A&M Style: 1/19/13 Co-Champion of THE ED's College Basketball Challenge

The art of the deal with it poors

OG Elon hater with a tesla


Offline kim carnes

  • chingon!
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 13591
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3013 on: May 08, 2017, 04:56:43 PM »
Our healthcare system is better than canada's

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

  • Racist Piece of Shit
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 18431
  • Kiss my ass and suck my dick
    • View Profile
    • I am the one and only Sugar Dick
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3014 on: May 08, 2017, 05:33:47 PM »
In a stunning turn of events a bunch of socialist neophytes (who have never been subjected to the shitiness that is socialism) think socialist healthcare is best because it's socialist. A socialist study they read once reinforces their belief.

Meanwhile, back in reality, socialist medicaid/medicare are insolvent, offer substandard care from the bottom bucket of medical professionals, and are subsidized by real insurance.
goEMAW Karmic BBS Shepherd

Offline gatoveintisiete

  • Racist Piece of Shit
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 4036
  • Cold Ass Honkey
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3015 on: May 08, 2017, 05:51:26 PM »
Donald and I don't want single-payer, so we're not gonna do that in this country ever, 'kay-bye.
it’s not like I’m tired of WINNING, but dude, let me catch my breath.

Online star seed 7

  • hyperactive on the :lol:
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 64182
  • good dog
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3016 on: May 08, 2017, 06:09:19 PM »
Donald loves Universal Healthcare dude
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

The Big Train

  • Guest
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3017 on: May 08, 2017, 06:16:13 PM »
It's better than what we have

Offline Phil Titola

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15346
  • He took it out!
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3018 on: May 08, 2017, 06:40:14 PM »
It's better than what we have

No way you can take him literally on that one....everybody knows he has no idea what their health care is.

The Big Train

  • Guest
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3019 on: May 08, 2017, 06:43:30 PM »
It's better than what we have

No way you can take him literally on that one....everybody knows he has no idea what their health care is.

So what are you saying... that the president of the US, who the people voted in, has no idea what he's talking about?

Offline Phil Titola

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15346
  • He took it out!
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3020 on: May 08, 2017, 06:46:29 PM »
It's better than what we have

No way you can take him literally on that one....everybody knows he has no idea what their health care is.

So what are you saying... that the president of the US, who the people voted in, has no idea what he's talking about?

 :Wha:

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 10040
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3021 on: May 08, 2017, 07:35:32 PM »
But it works in Sweden! And Norway! And Denmark! So of course it will work here!

No it doesn't, and no it won't.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Online star seed 7

  • hyperactive on the :lol:
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 64182
  • good dog
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3022 on: May 08, 2017, 08:14:00 PM »
Good rebuttal from ksuw, can't wait for the doozey of an op-ed fsd has queued up
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline puniraptor

  • Tastemaker
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 21338
  • nostalgic reason
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3023 on: May 08, 2017, 08:53:03 PM »
neither the free market nor insurance are mechanisms well suited to healthcare.

I propose a model where a person pays a subscription to a health provider to keep them healthy. As the person health declines, they pay less and if it falls below a certain baseline the health provider pays them.

Offline wetwillie

  • goEMAW Poster of the WEEK
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 30538
    • View Profile
Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3024 on: May 08, 2017, 08:54:39 PM »
neither the free market nor insurance are mechanisms well suited to healthcare.

I propose a model where a person pays a subscription to a health provider to keep them healthy. As the person health declines, they pay less and if it falls below a certain baseline the health provider pays them.

Is j-care a single payer model?
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best