Game of Thrones SHOW thread for people who are confused by the book thread

[star seed 7]

Do you guys want to hear another theory about how Hodor got to be Hodor?


In Bran's visions, he is actually time travelling (as evidenced by Ned hearing him) and at some point he is going to warg into young Wylis to try to warn his family of the upcoming danger. But for some reason (warging into people is bad, or warging across time is bad) that is going to screw up Wylis' mind and he is going to turn into Hodor...maybe Bran says the word "Hodor" during the warging debacle. 

Do you guys notice how very similar this is to what actually happened? Maybe you should put more weight in my theories.

You dismissed my time traveling warging theory, smdh.


Also I think the mad king was just targ mad

[Rage Against the McKee]

Do you guys want to hear another theory about how Hodor got to be Hodor?


In Bran's visions, he is actually time travelling (as evidenced by Ned hearing him) and at some point he is going to warg into young Wylis to try to warn his family of the upcoming danger. But for some reason (warging into people is bad, or warging across time is bad) that is going to screw up Wylis' mind and he is going to turn into Hodor...maybe Bran says the word "Hodor" during the warging debacle. 

Do you guys notice how very similar this is to what actually happened? Maybe you should put more weight in my theories.

You had another theory where Hodor was the warg and he warged into a horse smdh.

[Mrs. Gooch]

You dismissed my time traveling warging theory, smdh.

You had another theory where Hodor was the warg and he warged into a horse smdh.

I like to present all the possibilities for discussion.

[michigancat]

How quickly before the zombies catch bran? I mean they got like a minute head start and those zombies are fast.

[Mrs. Gooch]

How quickly before the zombies catch bran? I mean they got like a minute head start and those zombies are fast.

Pretty quick unless Coldhands comes to help him.

[sys]

How quickly before the zombies catch bran? I mean they got like a minute head start and those zombies are fast.

i hate the zombies, at least on the show.  so stupid.  love the walkers though.  they should have just had walkers with no zombies.

[michigancat]

How quickly before the zombies catch bran? I mean they got like a minute head start and those zombies are fast.

Pretty quick unless Coldhands comes to help him.

I suppose it's also possible that Hodor held them longer than was shown. But not likely because those zombies are a feisty bunch.

Also, how stupid are the rough ridin' rules of the cave? Oh, we're 100% safe here eating moss until the white dude touches you in a vision and then he can be there in like five minutes and have free reign of the place? GMAFB

[sys]

just saw the episode last night.  not boring at least.  not really about the episode, but from the preview - littlefinger's "time to join the fray" = time to join the freys?  seems like the sort of Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) punny foreshadowing the show writers would think is clever.

[michigancat]

How quickly before the zombies catch bran? I mean they got like a minute head start and those zombies are fast.

i hate the zombies, at least on the show.  so stupid.  love the walkers though.  they should have just had walkers with no zombies.

Yeah. They don't seem to fit. I think they belong in a different show every time I see them.

[sys]

how stupid are the rough ridin' rules of the cave? Oh, we're 100% safe here eating moss until the white dude touches you in a vision and then he can be there in like five minutes and have free reign of the place? GMAFB

book grrm did a really good job with limiting magic and binding it with rules to make it compelling.  the show writers have no idea what they're doing.  it's just "hmm, we need x for plot device y, welp, magic."

[michigancat]

how stupid are the rough ridin' rules of the cave? Oh, we're 100% safe here eating moss until the white dude touches you in a vision and then he can be there in like five minutes and have free reign of the place? GMAFB

book grrm did a really good job with limiting magic and binding it with rules to make it compelling.  the show writers have no idea what they're doing.  it's just "hmm, we need x for plot device y, welp, magic."

The book did a great job of making me think to myself, "oh crap, was that magic?!? Damn!"

[catastrophe]

So maybe Bran is going to think he can stop all this by going back in time and warning King Aerys that the White Walkers are coming and that they need to send word North to burn all the bodies.......but the king just hears "burn them all" and starts burning people alive (like Ned's father & brother).

I really hope this isn't the direction they go, just having Bran Mr. Magoo everything in the past which screws up the future where he feels compelled to go back in time to fix everything he screwed up in the first place.

[Mrs. Gooch]

OK, so let's talk about the ridiculous travel times.
 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KAqa9wwODqaFkegqf8Si6fmuE55-M-GMIj0ZmcKUFxs/edit

It is about 650 miles from Winterfell to Castle Black, so it should have taken Sansa 16 days (even if she was pushing her horse for 10 hours per day) to get there.

The distance from the Vale to Mole's Town is about twice that (plus over mountains) and Little finger was traveling with a larger party. (Plus, did he stop in the Riverlands to find out about the Blackfish?) So it should have taken him at least 36 days to get there, and that is assuming he had replacement horses and could therefore travel 12 hours per day.

[star seed 7]

I thought the wall was only 2 day ride from winterfell. Also kings landing to winterfell is a month for king Robert in the first episode so I doubt the vale to winterfell is longer

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

I don't even think Bran was warged into young Wylis. I think he was warged into old Hodor and just the past vision thing in general. And then that caused something to get crossed....

It looked like old hodor snapped out of his simple mindedness. His eyes went worg white but then went back to normal a second later and then started whomping ass. So I'm not sure bran was controlling old hodor at the end, he might have just been watching the past

I am pretty sure Bran was warging into Hodor while Hodor was fighting off the wights. It was exactly the same as when he warged into Hodor at Craster's Keep - Hodor's eyes went white for a second then back to normal except not simple-minded.

https://youtu.be/qlSZZdDrKFw?t=57s

I think this is right. I'm pretty sure that Bran's presence in the past and future caused him to warg into not only present day Hodor but also Wylis, making Wylis aware and live his own future death.

Really weird though. Why didn't he just stopped his vision quest and returned to the present day danger?

Because he had to mess up Wylis - that's the time loop thing. If Bran had just left the dream and warg'd normally into present day Hodor, the event would not have occurred to turn Wylis into Hodor in the first place.

It is pretty clear that the 3ER knew what was going to happen, which is why he urged Bran to do what Meera said instead of shoving Bran out of the dream to do it normally. Somehow, Bran's warg'ing of present-day Hodor from the dream only worked because Wylis was in the dream to act as a conduit, which mumped Wylis up and turned him into Hodor.

The problem with the time loop is the bootstrap paradox. If each event causes the other event, then how could it have ever started? It is illustrated most simply with the chicken/egg question. But as others have said, I'm not that annoyed by an impossible time loop because it was beautifully executed.

[Mrs. Gooch]

I thought the wall was only 2 day ride from winterfell. Also kings landing to winterfell is a month for king Robert in the first episode so I doubt the vale to winterfell is longer

But the Vale has a bunch of mountains to go over, plus you have to go around a bunch of water (The Bite?), or else go over the water but then that means you have to get ships or a ferry or something which would delay your travels.

Where are you getting the 2 days ride thing?

[star seed 7]

I thought it took jon/tyrion 2 days to get to the wall in s1/book 1.  Maybe it was 2 weeks

[asava]

[asava]

[michigancat]

what is shown on each episode is not necessarily happening simultaneously

[sys]

in addition to the whole time travel deus ex machina, i didn't like that everyone was all "hold the door, hodor" a thousand times when he held the door.  like what an bad person thing to do.  trick/force some Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) giant into killing himself to buy you a couple of minutes.  the child that blew up, the ravenman and the wolf all willingly sacrificed themselves and no one was egging them on.  but with hodor it was all, "come on hodor, hold the door.  do it, big man, hold the rough ridin' door."  they weren't even guilty or conflicted about it.

[asava]

pretty par for the course when it comes to servants v. lords.

[Cire]

Awesome episode.


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[Mrs. Gooch]

in addition to the whole time travel deus ex machina, i didn't like that everyone was all "hold the door, hodor" a thousand times when he held the door.  like what an bad person thing to do.  trick/force some Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) giant into killing himself to buy you a couple of minutes.  the child that blew up, the ravenman and the wolf all willingly sacrificed themselves and no one was egging them on.  but with hodor it was all, "come on hodor, hold the door.  do it, big man, hold the rough ridin' door."  they weren't even guilty or conflicted about it.

It isn't clear to me if Bran left Hodor's mind toward the end. Maybe he did and it was actually Hodor himself holding the door. Not sure. BUT we all know that Hodor would have done anything to save Bran, so he would have been willing to sacrifice himself. Also, by saving Bran he basically gave his life to save all of Westeros since Bran is going to eventually beat the White Walkers.

[halfEmpty]

Anyone else think Cersei's plan to have the Tyrell's move their army in against the sect is entirely to have said army then destroyed?  She's always scheming against everyone else, so I see this as her likely end game with them.  I realize this was not the last episode, but whatever, I just watched 5 and a half seasons in 2 weeks, so everything runs together.