oscar still sucks

[MakeItRain]

I wanted to wait until I cooled off before I posted anything.  I completely agree with this thread title.  Yes, it was a successful season.  Yes, we had an easy road and would have gotten crushed had we played Virginia.  Yes, we made the elite 8 and I was on board.

All of that stated, oscar still sucks.  This doesn’t change my perception of him at all.  One year doesn’t change who he is, a weird little eff face with a scratchy voice and money stealing dick.  I’m more optimistic for next than I have ever been with oscar but my opinion of him has not changed.

[MakeItRain]

Meh. I don't think he sucks. He's a dork, but I think he and his staff are doing ok at this point.

It's definitely more accurate to say "oscar does ok" than to say he sucks. But the overall point of this thread is that these last four games have told us nothing new about oscar as a coach, good or bad. He's the same boring old ok coach he's always been.

The two primary criticisms of oscar, even earlier this season, was that he didn't win in the tournament and he and his teams were awful in close games. Both of those things completely melted away this season, one of them was rationalized, the other completely ignored.

['taterblast]

i've been very very anti-oscar but i have to say i'm impressed at the ability of some of you to stick to it after an elite eight with our best player hurt and everyone returning for next year.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

The criticisms of oscar can be boiled down to this:

"But, [poop comes out of mouth]"

[MakeItRain]

There's literally nothing he could do to convince some of these fellas, short of winning the tournament (obv winning the big12 wasn't enough).

Do you think oscar will win the Big 12 again?

I do. Take away year one and the program accomplishments and his recruiting have improved. Looking at his '19 targets leads me to believe that will continue. I would like to see him hire an assistant who can recruit and or develop bigs.

[michigancat]

Meh. I don't think he sucks. He's a dork, but I think he and his staff are doing ok at this point.

It's definitely more accurate to say "oscar does ok" than to say he sucks. But the overall point of this thread is that these last four games have told us nothing new about oscar as a coach, good or bad. He's the same boring old ok coach he's always been.

The two primary criticisms of oscar, even earlier this season, was that he didn't win in the tournament and he and his teams were awful in close games. Both of those things completely melted away this season, one of them was rationalized, the other completely ignored.

those weren't mine, at all.

[MakeItRain]

the whole knock on oscar was that he can’t win tournament games, then he wins 3 of them in one year and the narrative becomes it was a fluke.

Earning a 9 seed and then playing the same competition a 1 seed would play all the way to the elite 8 is definitely a fluke.

So is losing to la salle as a 3 seed in the sprint center.  The tournament is a single elimination crap shoot.  Most (all?) of the HBIQ posters on this blog site have brought up how you perform in your conference as the most accurate measure of success.  He has been like maybe a few games above .500 in conference in 6 years so you can certainly say that’s not up to your standards if you wish.

Absolutely that loss was a fluke. If he'd had 3 seeds consistently I'd have expected him to make the sweet 16 a couple times.

If he got another one next year but didn't make the second weekend it feels like two top three seeds in 7 years wouldn't be enough for you.

['taterblast]

it was a 4 seed in '13, fwiw

[MakeItRain]

my hatred of oscar was always because of a CERTAINTY i had that his teams would never be good enough to do anything meaningful in the tournament. he has proven me wrong with reason for optimism in the future.

He had a meaningful run, but there is no reason for optimism there will be more elite 8 runs unless you think he's going to start consistently earning 1 or 2 seeds.

Did you lodge this same complaint when Frank was here?

[michigancat]

how people don't care if we even win a single game in the tournament is beyond me.

Yeah, this.

Making tourney runs is great. See 2010.

Of course it's great. But coaches shouldn't be judged for their performance in a single elimination tournament. If oscar is getting us into the tournament every year, he's doing fine, and anything beyond that is just gravy.

He needs to get us in the position to makes runs, i.e. getting a good seed.

I think if you're getting into the tourney every year those seasons will happen on their own. No one gets in as a ten seed every year with any consistency.

So basically, my requirements aren't that different than yours, I just don't worry about year to year specifics or judge an entire season (or career) based on the results of one or two games

[Rage Against the McKee]

my hatred of oscar was always because of a CERTAINTY i had that his teams would never be good enough to do anything meaningful in the tournament. he has proven me wrong with reason for optimism in the future.

He had a meaningful run, but there is no reason for optimism there will be more elite 8 runs unless you think he's going to start consistently earning 1 or 2 seeds.

Did you lodge this same complaint when Frank was here?

I expected the team to be a lot better than we were in 2010-11. That is the only team Frank had where I thought a final 4 might actually happen before the season started. Frank at least gave some reason to be optimistic that he might pull it off in the future, though, by virtue of building a team that earned a 2 seed.

[kso_FAN]

These threads are funny. I do give rusty credit for remaining consistent and steadfast in his opinions on oscar. I've been all over the place, but settled in with this team and had a fun year as a fan. Next year's team may not go as far in the tournament, but I expect to enjoy the season at least the same amount and probably more. I think we'll be at least slightly better and gain more quality wins. If anything, the biggest outlier this year was not getting a win over a end of the season top 10-15 team.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

I feel like we've made the tourney every year except the mulligan year and year that caused the mulligan.

I think his recruiting is better than Frank's.

[chum1]

I hope oscar wins the conference just so I can read some of the reasons for why it wasn't a good enough conference championship.

 

[pissclams]

how people don't care if we even win a single game in the tournament is beyond me.

Yeah, this.

Making tourney runs is great. See 2010.

Of course it's great. But coaches shouldn't be judged for their performance in a single elimination tournament. If oscar is getting us into the tournament every year, he's doing fine, and anything beyond that is just gravy.

He needs to get us in the position to makes runs, i.e. getting a good seed.

I think if you're getting into the tourney every year those seasons will happen on their own. No one gets in as a ten seed every year with any consistency.

So basically, my requirements aren't that different than yours, I just don't worry about year to year specifics or judge an entire season (or career) based on the results of one or two games

nothing that you say will satiate the pro-brucists

[michigancat]

I hope oscar wins the conference just so I can read some of the reasons for why it wasn't a good enough conference championship.

 

me too, chum1

[Rage Against the McKee]

There's literally nothing he could do to convince some of these fellas, short of winning the tournament (obv winning the big12 wasn't enough).

Do you think oscar will win the Big 12 again?

I do. Take away year one and the program accomplishments and his recruiting have improved. Looking at his '19 targets leads me to believe that will continue. I would like to see him hire an assistant who can recruit and or develop bigs.

Are you expecting oscar to coach longer than Bill Self?

[MakeItRain]

07-08: 3rd out of 12
08-09: 4th out of 12
09-10: 2nd out of 12
10-11: 4th out of 12
11-12: 5th out of 10

12-13: 2nd out of 10
13-14: 5th out of 10
14-15: 8th out of 10 (w)
15-16: 8th out of 10 (w)
16-17: 6th out of 10

What is this supposed to indicate?

[sys]

Are you expecting oscar to coach longer than Bill Self?

in some ways, the idea that kstate could win the big 12 is the least realistic of any expectation.

[MakeItRain]

my hatred of oscar was always because of a CERTAINTY i had that his teams would never be good enough to do anything meaningful in the tournament. he has proven me wrong with reason for optimism in the future.

He had a meaningful run, but there is no reason for optimism there will be more elite 8 runs unless you think he's going to start consistently earning 1 or 2 seeds.

Did you lodge this same complaint when Frank was here?

I expected the team to be a lot better than we were in 2010-11. That is the only team Frank had where I thought a final 4 might actually happen before the season started. Frank at least gave some reason to be optimistic that he might pull it off in the future, though, by virtue of building a team that earned a 2 seed.

But his teams got progressively worse each year after that

[MakeItRain]

There's literally nothing he could do to convince some of these fellas, short of winning the tournament (obv winning the big12 wasn't enough).

Do you think oscar will win the Big 12 again?

I do. Take away year one and the program accomplishments and his recruiting have improved. Looking at his '19 targets leads me to believe that will continue. I would like to see him hire an assistant who can recruit and or develop bigs.

Are you expecting oscar to coach longer than Bill Self?

Was Bill Self at Kansas in 12-13? I forget.

[michigancat]

my hatred of oscar was always because of a CERTAINTY i had that his teams would never be good enough to do anything meaningful in the tournament. he has proven me wrong with reason for optimism in the future.

He had a meaningful run, but there is no reason for optimism there will be more elite 8 runs unless you think he's going to start consistently earning 1 or 2 seeds.

Did you lodge this same complaint when Frank was here?

I expected the team to be a lot better than we were in 2010-11. That is the only team Frank had where I thought a final 4 might actually happen before the season started. Frank at least gave some reason to be optimistic that he might pull it off in the future, though, by virtue of building a team that earned a 2 seed.

But his teams got progressively worse each year after that

he had one team after that and it finished higher in KP (worse B12 record and seed though)

[catastrophe]

I don’t think oscar will ever put a team on the floor with a realistic shot at winning the Big 12, or to put a team on the floor with a realistic shot at a deep tournament run.

This year wasn't a deep tournament run?  We're final four or bust now?

This year was a deep tournament run. We didn’t have a realistic shot at it going in, though. The stars just aligned to give us an easier path to the final 4 than any other team, which is very unusual for a 9 seed.

Bro, just look at the odds for any single team to win the tournament going into the first round. By your standards KSU would have to be like no worse than a 2 seed to have “a realistic shot at a deep tournament run.”

Also, it sounds like you’re saying if oscar won 3 consecutive nattys as a 8/9 seed then you’d still say he sucks because none of those runs were realistic going into it.

[CHONGS]

I wonder if Leonard Hamilton (since getting hired FSU) is the best comparo.   I think that's what's generally in store for ksu and oscar.

[DQ12]

If oscar is getting us into the tournament every year, he's doing fine, and anything beyond that is just gravy.

Is oscar not doing this or have the goalposts moved?  FWIW, this is pretty much my standard expectation for KSU hoops.