I think we'll do well under Weber

[catzacker]

I don’t think anyone is arguing that we won’t be “good” in year 1 or year 2.  However if we are to base our opinion on anything other than “hope” it would be that he’s going to fail.  And it’s going to be a slow, boring death.  Currie stated it in his opening address.  The emphasis was not 10 years from now, it was NOW.  That’s simply all Currie worried about.  “how do I win now”.  And that’s what he got.  He got a guy who could win “now”.  And later, when John is not here, and we aren’t winning that won’t be Currie’s problem.

Also, the idea that the team/program weber inherited and the team/program frank inherited were remotely similar is absurd.  I mean, simply absurd.  After oscar had Illinois up and running for four years (at a program that was up and running for the previous 7 years), compare Frank and oscar’s conference record over the last 5 years.  It isn’t even close. 

oscar simply destroyed Illinois.  Destroyed them.  Lon won.  Self Won.  oscar failed.

[FP TC etc.]

Like _FAN said this is so much more than simply looking at records and wondering whether he can keep us hovering around the 4 or 5 spot in the standings. We hired oscar Weber in less than a week. Whatever your opinions on Gottlieb are you have to admit we should have at least listened to what he had to say. We didn't. We made a safe, uninspired hire to pad Currie's resume.

As Pete said in another thread (or maybe on twitter) college basketball is about recruiting and brand. And we have neither. Even when we finished 4th in the conference with Frank people paid attention to us. Because we had Frank, our program had an identity and ESPN ate it up. If we finish 4th with oscar Weber no one is going to notice. That's the problem with this hire. And also the fact that I don't think he can keep us at 4th or 5th in the league.

Also, his voice is just unbearable.

Very well said.

[michigancat]

P.S.  Frank took over a team with NBA talent at KSU and didn't do as well as Weber at Illinois.  Something to think about.

Dee Brown was a So. when oscar took over at Illinois.  He played for oscar for 3 seasons.  Drafted in the 2nd round of 06.  He was the #19 rsci rated player in his class out of high school. 

Deron Williams was a So.  He played 2 seasons for oscar.  Drafted #3 overall in 05.  #48 rsci

James Augustine was a So. when oscar started.  Played 3 seasons for oscar.  Drafted in the 2nd round in 06.  #78 rsci

Luther Head was a Jr in oscar's first season.  He played 2 seasons with oscar.  Drafted #24 overall in 05.  Fringy top 100 h.s. recruit (did not make rsci top 100).

Roger Powell Jr. was a Jr. when oscar took over.  Stayed 2 seasons.  Not drafted.  #62 rsci.

Nick Smith was a Jr.  Played 2 seasons with oscar.  Not drafted.  #77 rsci.

Rich McBride was a frosh.  Played 4 seasons.  Not drafted.  #28 rsci.

Brian Randle was a frosh.  Played 4 seasons.  Not drafted.  #53 rsci.

Aaron Spears was a SO.  Played 1 season with oscar before transfering to St. Johns.  Not drafted.  #86 rsci.

Warren Carter was a frosh.  Played 4 seasons for oscar.  Not drafted.  Fringy top 100 player (made several lists, rsci not one of them). 


That look like about what Frank walked into?

[Illiniphil85]

Okay, there was a downward trend his last four years at Illinois.  But Wooly and Asbury never put up numbers at KSU like Weber's last four years at Illinois (all with his own players):

24-10 (11-7)
21-15 (10-8)
20-14 (9-9)
17-15 (6-12)

And this run came after a down fifth-year at Illinois (16-19 record).  So, Weber built these Illinois teams himself.  He also built an NCAA-tournament program out of dogshit at SIU.  Don't really see why people are predicting doom.

First off, let me state that I don't feel extremely comfortable trolling other schools MBs, but I feel some kinship shared here in that we had a AD that we despised that we finally got rid of and a coach (oscar Weber) that we couldn't get rid of quick enough. I love this site, it's awesome. Say the word and I'm gone, but it's been a slow weekend on the home front, so the Weber to KSU story was pretty much the topic of the weekend.

I for the last 3 or 4 years, I came to be one of Weber's biggest haters. Not only did he drive my beloved program straight off the cliff, but everytime I'd see that ugly mug or hear that fingernails on the chalkboard voice whining his shtick, I'd go ballistic. That said, it'd be just like that @sshat to figure out how to coach after we dumped a wheelbarrow full of cash in his lap and sent him packing. It will still be one of the happiest days of my life when I hear that moving van is heading south on I-57.

I just wanted to share some perspective surrounding the numbers. I'm not going to drag out the raw numbers, so If I'm off slightly, don't crucify me. The tops of the class the last 5-6 years in the big 10 has been OSU, Wisky and MSU with Purdue being up there largely on the strength of one recruiting class and solid coaching. This has left Illinois in about the 5th spot. Not terrible unless you look further. Most of this was a time when IU was in the toilet (lapped us already) , Michigan was off the tracks (flying past us), Iowa was a complete joke (McCaffery seems to have righted the ship) and Tubby @ Minny had issues popping up all over keeping them in the stone ages. This was also the recovery of recruiting during the Weber era (Jerrance Howard getting a lot of credit for the resurgence). Signed three nationally ranked classes in a row and the results got worse not better. We had to pull a 5th yr. PG from Bradley with a bad set of wheels to run the show this season and a bench full of what was considered at one time top talent has gotten little opportunity on the floor and little in the way of help on the immediate horizon with a rather bland recruiting class signed. An 8th (or was it 9th) finish this season, probably losing the only NBA player Weber signed to the draft shortly, it's was looking like bottom half of the big 10 for at least the next few years. It made it a no brainer that Weber had to go finally although there is still a very vocal minority that thinks that clown is the cat's meow (sorry, I couldn't resist).

All in all, the guy is to damn stubborn for me to think he'll approach anything differently at KSU, but as I stated above, the way he's effed us since he been here, if he finally figured it out when he left, it wouldn't surprise me in the least. The guy was a curse on our program. Best of luck going forward and somebody gets the banner flying above the home opener FB, give me the pay pal info and I'll chip in $5. If our AD was trying to shove "oscar the Excuse" or equivalent up our @ss, I have a feeling that some of you would step up to the plate. Guy like that doesn't deserve to be employed.

[Skipper44]

I am rooting for everyone to stay and have a great year next year.  First and foremost because Rod and JO have earned and absolutely deserve it. 

Secondly because that should facilitate Currie finally getting a new job which is the only way we will get rid of Weber when he settles in to his natural SLTH rhythm of .500 in conference with just enough top 20 wins to keep the casual fans on board.

A wise angry and bitter man once said "If rape is inevitable, just lay back and enjoy it" and I think that is what we have in front of us.

[pissclams]

Okay, there was a downward trend his last four years at Illinois.  But Wooly and Asbury never put up numbers at KSU like Weber's last four years at Illinois (all with his own players):

24-10 (11-7)
21-15 (10-8)
20-14 (9-9)
17-15 (6-12)

And this run came after a down fifth-year at Illinois (16-19 record).  So, Weber built these Illinois teams himself.  He also built an NCAA-tournament program out of dogshit at SIU.  Don't really see why people are predicting doom.

First off, let me state that I don't feel extremely comfortable trolling other schools MBs, but I feel some kinship shared here in that we had a AD that we despised that we finally got rid of and a coach (oscar Weber) that we couldn't get rid of quick enough. I love this site, it's awesome. Say the word and I'm gone, but it's been a slow weekend on the home front, so the Weber to KSU story was pretty much the topic of the weekend.

I for the last 3 or 4 years, I came to be one of Weber's biggest haters. Not only did he drive my beloved program straight off the cliff, but everytime I'd see that ugly mug or hear that fingernails on the chalkboard voice whining his shtick, I'd go ballistic. That said, it'd be just like that @sshat to figure out how to coach after we dumped a wheelbarrow full of cash in his lap and sent him packing. It will still be one of the happiest days of my life when I hear that moving van is heading south on I-57.

I just wanted to share some perspective surrounding the numbers. I'm not going to drag out the raw numbers, so If I'm off slightly, don't crucify me. The tops of the class the last 5-6 years in the big 10 has been OSU, Wisky and MSU with Purdue being up there largely on the strength of one recruiting class and solid coaching. This has left Illinois in about the 5th spot. Not terrible unless you look further. Most of this was a time when IU was in the toilet (lapped us already) , Michigan was off the tracks (flying past us), Iowa was a complete joke (McCaffery seems to have righted the ship) and Tubby @ Minny had issues popping up all over keeping them in the stone ages. This was also the recovery of recruiting during the Weber era (Jerrance Howard getting a lot of credit for the resurgence). Signed three nationally ranked classes in a row and the results got worse not better. We had to pull a 5th yr. PG from Bradley with a bad set of wheels to run the show this season and a bench full of what was considered at one time top talent has gotten little opportunity on the floor and little in the way of help on the immediate horizon with a rather bland recruiting class signed. An 8th (or was it 9th) finish this season, probably losing the only NBA player Weber signed to the draft shortly, it's was looking like bottom half of the big 10 for at least the next few years. It made it a no brainer that Weber had to go finally although there is still a very vocal minority that thinks that clown is the cat's meow (sorry, I couldn't resist).

All in all, the guy is to damn stubborn for me to think he'll approach anything differently at KSU, but as I stated above, the way he's effed us since he been here, if he finally figured it out when he left, it wouldn't surprise me in the least. The guy was a curse on our program. Best of luck going forward and somebody gets the banner flying above the home opener FB, give me the pay pal info and I'll chip in $5. If our AD was trying to shove "oscar the Excuse" or equivalent up our @ss, I have a feeling that some of you would step up to the plate. Guy like that doesn't deserve to be employed.

 

first of all, you're welcome to post here as often as you want.

secondly, damn it.

[mcmwcat]

P.S.  Frank took over a team with NBA talent at KSU and didn't do as well as Weber at Illinois.  Something to think about.

Dee Brown was a So. when oscar took over at Illinois.  He played for oscar for 3 seasons.  Drafted in the 2nd round of 06.  He was the #19 rsci rated player in his class out of high school. 

Deron Williams was a So.  He played 2 seasons for oscar.  Drafted #3 overall in 05.  #48 rsci

James Augustine was a So. when oscar started.  Played 3 seasons for oscar.  Drafted in the 2nd round in 06.  #78 rsci

Luther Head was a Jr in oscar's first season.  He played 2 seasons with oscar.  Drafted #24 overall in 05.  Fringy top 100 h.s. recruit (did not make rsci top 100).

Roger Powell Jr. was a Jr. when oscar took over.  Stayed 2 seasons.  Not drafted.  #62 rsci.

Nick Smith was a Jr.  Played 2 seasons with oscar.  Not drafted.  #77 rsci.

Rich McBride was a frosh.  Played 4 seasons.  Not drafted.  #28 rsci.

Brian Randle was a frosh.  Played 4 seasons.  Not drafted.  #53 rsci.

Aaron Spears was a SO.  Played 1 season with oscar before transfering to St. Johns.  Not drafted.  #86 rsci.

self is a recruiting monster.  if he gets Jerrance Howard on staff - turn out the lights.

[puniraptor]

phil, trolling other teams MB's is one of the purest joys of internet sports fandom. Thanks for the depressing info. Stick around and watch this mother burn. 

[Stupid Fitz]

Okay, there was a downward trend his last four years at Illinois.  But Wooly and Asbury never put up numbers at KSU like Weber's last four years at Illinois (all with his own players):

24-10 (11-7)
21-15 (10-8)
20-14 (9-9)
17-15 (6-12)

And this run came after a down fifth-year at Illinois (16-19 record).  So, Weber built these Illinois teams himself.  He also built an NCAA-tournament program out of dogshit at SIU.  Don't really see why people are predicting doom.

First off, let me state that I don't feel extremely comfortable trolling other schools MBs, but I feel some kinship shared here in that we had a AD that we despised that we finally got rid of and a coach (oscar Weber) that we couldn't get rid of quick enough. I love this site, it's awesome. Say the word and I'm gone, but it's been a slow weekend on the home front, so the Weber to KSU story was pretty much the topic of the weekend.

I for the last 3 or 4 years, I came to be one of Weber's biggest haters. Not only did he drive my beloved program straight off the cliff, but everytime I'd see that ugly mug or hear that fingernails on the chalkboard voice whining his shtick, I'd go ballistic. That said, it'd be just like that @sshat to figure out how to coach after we dumped a wheelbarrow full of cash in his lap and sent him packing. It will still be one of the happiest days of my life when I hear that moving van is heading south on I-57.

I just wanted to share some perspective surrounding the numbers. I'm not going to drag out the raw numbers, so If I'm off slightly, don't crucify me. The tops of the class the last 5-6 years in the big 10 has been OSU, Wisky and MSU with Purdue being up there largely on the strength of one recruiting class and solid coaching. This has left Illinois in about the 5th spot. Not terrible unless you look further. Most of this was a time when IU was in the toilet (lapped us already) , Michigan was off the tracks (flying past us), Iowa was a complete joke (McCaffery seems to have righted the ship) and Tubby @ Minny had issues popping up all over keeping them in the stone ages. This was also the recovery of recruiting during the Weber era (Jerrance Howard getting a lot of credit for the resurgence). Signed three nationally ranked classes in a row and the results got worse not better. We had to pull a 5th yr. PG from Bradley with a bad set of wheels to run the show this season and a bench full of what was considered at one time top talent has gotten little opportunity on the floor and little in the way of help on the immediate horizon with a rather bland recruiting class signed. An 8th (or was it 9th) finish this season, probably losing the only NBA player Weber signed to the draft shortly, it's was looking like bottom half of the big 10 for at least the next few years. It made it a no brainer that Weber had to go finally although there is still a very vocal minority that thinks that clown is the cat's meow (sorry, I couldn't resist).

All in all, the guy is to damn stubborn for me to think he'll approach anything differently at KSU, but as I stated above, the way he's effed us since he been here, if he finally figured it out when he left, it wouldn't surprise me in the least. The guy was a curse on our program. Best of luck going forward and somebody gets the banner flying above the home opener FB, give me the pay pal info and I'll chip in $5. If our AD was trying to shove "oscar the Excuse" or equivalent up our @ss, I have a feeling that some of you would step up to the plate. Guy like that doesn't deserve to be employed.

It is pretty obvious that Currie didn't talk to Phil during the hiring process.   

[doom]

I think we will be a 4-5 place conf team and round of 32ers, but I don't think he can do that for 2 years.  This is going to be snyderesque recruiting without the DITR.  AC's are going to be commenting about kids' character for not attending camps. 

[naturalselection]

self is a recruiting monster.  if he gets Jerrance Howard on staff - turn out the lights.

Idk about that.  Illinois (and Howard) have made almost all thier "big" scores on Illinois high school players.  I'm sure he has very good connections and would help KU (or any school) in that area.  KU is a national recruiting school.  Ill/Chicago is certainly a fertile basketball recruiting ground, but I would rather go after a Jerrance Howard type recruiting assistant with ties in Texas for instance. 

That said, crap I would take him.  Our coach is talking about locking down Kansas.  We have NOTHING for recruiting ties right now outside of Illinois, and these coaches don't seem to have a lot of cred there on their own merits.  If we're going to be little Illinois, might as well shoot for being the best little Illinois we can be. 

[kso_FAN]

The "recruit Kansas" talking point was dumb and most of oscar's initial press conference was bad.

But I think that initial presser will have little (if anything) to do with his success/failure as a coach, nor does anything he said really mean anything to me. The biggest downfall is that to even remotely turn any of the fans that were against his hire he needed a great opener and he didn't even come close to that.

[Dr Rick Daris]

Like _FAN said this is so much more than simply looking at records and wondering whether he can keep us hovering around the 4 or 5 spot in the standings. We hired oscar Weber in less than a week. Whatever your opinions on Gottlieb are you have to admit we should have at least listened to what he had to say. We didn't. We made a safe, uninspired hire to pad Currie's resume.

As Pete said in another thread (or maybe on twitter) college basketball is about recruiting and brand. And we have neither. Even when we finished 4th in the conference with Frank people paid attention to us. Because we had Frank, our program had an identity and ESPN ate it up. If we finish 4th with oscar Weber no one is going to notice. That's the problem with this hire. And also the fact that I don't think he can keep us at 4th or 5th in the league.

Also, his voice is just unbearable.

Very well said.

yeah. this has no chance (none) of working out long term. it is the safest most unimaginable hire ever that only could've been dreamt up by a person that wanted to hire someone to coach basketball that had a name, wouldn't embarass him, wouldn't get into trouble, would graduate players and would do just well enough on the court for the next couple of years that it will keep some fan interest. he is a saltine cracker without the salt.

oscar webber is 55. he has no plan. he has no coaches lined up. those that know him best thought he needed to take a year off. he is not bringing his recruiter with him and even if he did, he has not shown in the last six years that he is capable of coaching said talent. he coached at a place that really is just about impossible to not win at and he lost. we're done. there is no sane person that can be optomistic about this. my biggest worry now is that he does win for a couple of years and gets a contract extension thus prolonging mediocrityville.

[felix rex]

The "recruit Kansas" talking point was dumb and most of oscar's initial press conference was bad.

But I think that initial presser will have little (if anything) to do with his success/failure as a coach, nor does anything he said really mean anything to me. The biggest downfall is that to even remotely turn any of the fans that were against his hire he needed a great opener and he didn't even come close to that.

Yeah. That was comically bad. Even just boring would have been better. But from Lannou to Currie's terrible jokes to Weber falling over himself to the weird moment when they dressed the guy who mows his own yard, that was a nightmare.

[michigancat]

But I think that initial presser will have little (if anything) to do with his success/failure as a coach, nor does anything he said really mean anything to me. The biggest downfall is that to even remotely turn any of the fans that were against his hire he needed a great opener and he didn't even come close to that.

disagree. He's a bumbling fool. I have no idea how he will land any recruits.

[Mr Bread]

 

first of all, you're welcome to post here as often as you want.

secondly, damn it.
[/quote]

I agree with Phil.  I felt an immediate and intense kinship with KSU fans having lived it for the past nine years.  I imagine it has to be along the same lines as how incest victims or former alcoholics can relate to one another.  You have to have lived it to truly understand.