Mass Shooting in San Bernardino: 2 shooters and a guy with a warrant

[star seed 7]

I think the problem is fairy tales more than space

[DQ12]

the population of palestine at the time of the zionist movement, including both all jewish immigrants and everyone already living there, was many multiples smaller than the present day population of israel or the present day population the areas governed by the palestinian authority.


there was plenty of room for everyone.

still kind of a strange thing though. 

[Dugout DickStone]

Not all tribes were like that.  Some tribes were displaced by us and ended up displacing others, though.  But they had also been displacing each other for thousands of years.

Look at Europe even, what a mess.  Greeks, Romans, barbarians, Mongols, Moors, etc.

We really displaced the hell out of them.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

the population of palestine at the time of the zionist movement, including both all jewish immigrants and everyone already living there, was many multiples smaller than the present day population of israel or the present day population the areas governed by the palestinian authority.


there was plenty of room for everyone.

still kind of a strange thing though.

Why? Jews have been living in the area now known as Israel for thousands of years. It is their ancestral homeland. They were there long before Islam (or Christianity) even existed. It's obviously an area of a great deal of geopolitical turmoil, conquered and conquered and conquered again. The British were the latest conquerors, and it made sense to help settle displaced Jews in a region that they controlled and happened to be their ancestral homeland. That doesn't seem strange.

[Emo EMAW]

the population of palestine at the time of the zionist movement, including both all jewish immigrants and everyone already living there, was many multiples smaller than the present day population of israel or the present day population the areas governed by the palestinian authority.


there was plenty of room for everyone.

Also, before 1948, there were already 630k Jews living Palestine (32% of the population). 

[sys]

Also, before 1948, there were already 630k Jews living Palestine (32% of the population).

yeah.  those are the people i was talking about.

[michigancat]

the population of palestine at the time of the zionist movement, including both all jewish immigrants and everyone already living there, was many multiples smaller than the present day population of israel or the present day population the areas governed by the palestinian authority.


there was plenty of room for everyone.

there weren't really enough jobs for everyone. A lot of Palestinian laborers were displaced. Not really maliciously, but it was a definite hardship on them.

[DQ12]

Also, before 1948, there were already 630k Jews living Palestine (32% of the population).

yeah.  those are the people i was talking about.

There were 83k Jews in Palestine in 1922.  The jewish population in Palestine octupled in about 25 years.  That's nuts.

[sys]

there weren't really enough jobs for everyone. A lot of Palestinian laborers were displaced. Not really maliciously, but it was a definite hardship on them.

the jewish immigrants were a huge boost to the economy.  it's hard to find anything with google that isn't obviously written from an pro-israel or pro-palestinian perspective, but the data are clear that economic growth during this period was fantastic - especially so since the period included the depression years.

In the period from 1922 to 1947 real net domestic product (NDP) of the Jewish sector grew at an average rate of 13.2 percent, and in 1947 accounted for 54 percent of the NDP of the Jewish and Arab economies together. NDP per capita in the Jewish sector grew at a rate of 4.8 percent; by the end of the period it was 8.5 times larger in than in 1922, and 2.5 times larger than in the Arab sector (Metzer, 1998).

[sys]

There were 83k Jews in Palestine in 1922.  The jewish population in Palestine octupled in about 25 years.  That's nuts.

it's not that hard to octuple when you start from a low base.

[DQ12]

There were 83k Jews in Palestine in 1922.  The jewish population in Palestine octupled in about 25 years.  That's nuts.

it's not that hard to octuple when you start from a low base.

Disirregardlessly

[sys]

There were 83k Jews in Palestine in 1922.  The jewish population in Palestine octupled in about 25 years.  That's nuts.

it's not that hard to octuple when you start from a low base.

Disirregardlessly

i continue to regard it.  the base is basically irrelevant.  the meaningful number is the % of new immigrants/existing population.

[michigancat]

there weren't really enough jobs for everyone. A lot of Palestinian laborers were displaced. Not really maliciously, but it was a definite hardship on them.

the jewish immigrants were a huge boost to the economy.  it's hard to find anything with google that isn't obviously written from an pro-israel or pro-palestinian perspective, but the data are clear that economic growth during this period was fantastic - especially so since the period included the depression years.

In the period from 1922 to 1947 real net domestic product (NDP) of the Jewish sector grew at an average rate of 13.2 percent, and in 1947 accounted for 54 percent of the NDP of the Jewish and Arab economies together. NDP per capita in the Jewish sector grew at a rate of 4.8 percent; by the end of the period it was 8.5 times larger in than in 1922, and 2.5 times larger than in the Arab sector (Metzer, 1998).

yes, maybe there were enough jobs. I just know that when landowners sold to jewish immigrants, the jews often farmed the land themselves and let most of the Palestinian labor go. I may have read about that on one of the super over-the-top biased sites though. I'm always on the lookout for balanced perspectives in books on the subject, so if anyone here knows of some, let me know! Thanks.

[sys]

yes, maybe there were enough jobs. I just know that when landowners sold to jewish immigrants, the jews often farmed the land themselves and let most of the Palestinian labor go. I may have read about that on one of the super over-the-top biased sites though. I'm always on the lookout for balanced perspectives in books on the subject, so if anyone here knows of some, let me know! Thanks.

i think that's accurate.  i'd only footnote it with the caveat that feudalism was probably not long for the 20th century, with or without the arrival of jewish immigrants.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

The jews gave back gaza, and the people who settled that place have a fabulous job of turning it into a third world, murderous crap hole. As long as the jews are keeping the place up to code, they can keep israel.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

The jews gave back gaza, and the people who settled that place have a fabulous job of turning it into a third world, murderous crap hole. As long as the jews are keeping the place up to code, they can keep israel.

I think the excuse for Gaza is that the "palestinians" had to trash it because they hate the Jews. They really didn't have a choice.

[Emo EMAW]

Let us also not forget, the day or day after the Jews declared independence a coalition of Arab armies invaded and attacked, and summarily got their asses handed to them in 9 months.  I think in a case like this once you invade then trying to retroactively make political change is near impossible.  If the Arabs should be pissed at anyone it probably should be the Brits.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

The jews gave back gaza, and the people who settled that place have a fabulous job of turning it into a third world, murderous crap hole. As long as the jews are keeping the place up to code, they can keep israel.

I think the excuse for Gaza is that the "palestinians" had to trash it because they hate the Jews. They really didn't have a choice.

Sounds reasonable.

[Emo EMAW]

Liberals:  against Jewish refugees, who just survived a rough ridin' holocaust, from moving to find a better life.  Sympathetic with the Palestinian populace for not wanting them.  But for allowing Syrian refugees into their own country to do the same thing.  Don't care to consider the opinions of their own countrymen.  Weird.

[DQ12]

Liberals:  against Jewish refugees, who just survived a rough ridin' holocaust, from moving to find a better life.  Sympathetic with the Palestinian populace for not wanting them.  But for allowing Syrian refugees into their own country to do the same thing.  Don't care to consider the opinions of their own countrymen.  Weird.

Yep.  Allowing syrian refugees into the US is exactly the "same thing" as the creation of the state of israel.  Spitting image.

[michigancat]

Let us also not forget, the day or day after the Jews declared independence a coalition of Arab armies invaded and attacked, and summarily got their asses handed to them in 9 months.  I think in a case like this once you invade then trying to retroactively make political change is near impossible.  If the Arabs should be pissed at anyone it probably should be the Brits.

I'm sure there's plenty of Arabs pissed at Brits. People can be pissed at more than one thing at once.

[ednksu]

Liberals:  against Jewish refugees, who just survived a rough ridin' holocaust, from moving to find a better life.  Sympathetic with the Palestinian populace for not wanting them.  But for allowing Syrian refugees into their own country to do the same thing.  Don't care to consider the opinions of their own countrymen.  Weird.

Yep.  Allowing syrian refugees into the US is exactly the "same thing" as the creation of the state of israel.  Spitting image.

Also lets be sure to leave out that the modern Israeli state under Bibi is about equal to South Africa's apartheid state.

[Emo EMAW]

Sorry guys I was trolling with that last one.  You deserve better.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

I'm sure there's plenty of Arabs pissed at Brits. People can be pissed at more than one thing at once.

Especially Muslims.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Liberals:  against Jewish refugees, who just survived a rough ridin' holocaust, from moving to find a better life.  Sympathetic with the Palestinian populace for not wanting them.  But for allowing Syrian refugees into their own country to do the same thing.  Don't care to consider the opinions of their own countrymen.  Weird.

Yep.  Allowing syrian refugees into the US is exactly the "same thing" as the creation of the state of israel.  Spitting image.

Also lets be sure to leave out that the modern Israeli state under Bibi is about equal to South Africa's apartheid state.

Except for Arabs serving in the Knesset. Otherwise just like apartheid.