Rank the Big XII's talent

[Dan Rydell]

Since Kietz is pounding the "KSU's talent doesn't belong on the floor with ku's talent" drum today, saying what KSU is doing is all because of a group of talentless misfits who are playing hard under the most brilliant coach in the Big XII, I thought I'd take a minute to consider exactly where KSU falls in the Big XII in terms of talent.  I'd break it down something like this:

1/2:  ku and Texas
3:  aTm
4:  OSU
5:  KSU
6:  Tech
7/8:  OU & Mizzou
9:   Baylor
10:  ISU
11:  Nebraska
12:  Colorado

So, yes.  KSU is overachieving at this point...but not by that much considering the circumstances.  I can't honestly look at KSU and say "this is a conference championship team."  However, if their talent is indeed middle-of-the-pack, then in a league where there's been so much coaching turnover and with perhaps the best coach in the league, it's entirely plausible for this team to be fighting for a Top 4 spot at the end of the season.  This team shouldn't finish outside the 3-6 range, on either end.

[kougar24]

K-State and Tech are probably interchangeable.

[michigancat]

1/2:  ku/Texas

3/4:  OSU/aTm

5/6/7:  KSU/Mizzou/Tech



8/9/10/11:  Baylor/CU/Nebraska/OU
12:  ISU

Edited

[Ameroogie]

It's nearly impossible to rank "talent" without those rankings being influenced by performance, whether the performance is individual stats or team victories.  If we were now 2-6 in the conference, the "talent" would be the same, but the (lack of) performance would likely skew the rankings.  In all actuality, the big XII is starved for talent this year.  Outside of a few key individuals, there aren't a lot of others that are: 1) cracking national statistical areas or 2) creating national media buzz.  

[jmlynch1]

Baylor has some "talent."

[michigancat]

Baylor has some "talent."

Yeah, they could easily go into the KSU/MU/Tech tier.

[fatty fat fat]

Going from a talent standpoint, you cannot rate Mizzou ahead of KSU.

atm, mu, osu, ou, ut and ku all have better talent than us.

[coitus]

if you take performance out of the equation, and just look at how the talent was viewed when it arrived on campus, missouri is much more talented.

marshall brown, four stars, #42
jason horton, four stars, #59
kalen grimes, four stars, #63
glen dandridge, three stars, #92

keon lawrence, three stars, #101
leo lyons, three stars, #112
jt tiller, three stars, #136
demarre carroll, three stars, #148

marcus watkins, three stars

toss in juco stud hannah, and that group has the raw talent.

[jmlynch1]

Going from a talent standpoint, you cannot rate Mizzou ahead of KSU.

atm, mu, osu, ou, ut and ku all have better talent than us.

your post makes no sense.

[michigancat]

Also, as far as Keitz's "No one at KSU would start for ku" statement, I'd say it's accurate.

I would probably start Hoskins over Wright, but I'm a homer and most unbiased fans probably wouldn't agree with me.

[fatty fat fat]

Also, as far as Keitz's "No one at KSU would start for ku" statement, I'd say it's accurate.

I would probably start Hoskins over Wright, but I'm a homer and most unbiased fans probably wouldn't agree with me.

It's very accurate. ku's top 9 players are all top 70 RSCI guys! Holy crap!

[coitus]

bullcrap.

stew would start anywhere.

he's the total package of intangibles.

[ChiefCatchacold]

I thought this would be a discussion of who had the hottest women.   

[Skycat]

Does experience play a role in this?  Should it?  I think it has some bearing as to how well these teams are playing this year.

If it doesn't than UT belongs right at the top.  If it does than they're a good step below ku.

There's a few other places where it matters, us vs. mu for instance.

And how about depth?  OSU has some very talented players, but they're so thin at this point that I'm tempted to knock them down to our teir.

[Dan Rydell]

When I ranked them, I just kinda guesstimated it, based on my impressions of the way the guys on the various rosters have been playing as I've seen them, now that I've seen every Big XII team play at least one game.

So, mine aren't based on recruiting rankings.  Of course, coaching plays a factor b/c of the coaches who have done a better job of putting their players into position to play to their strengths and performance is the biggest factor I'm considering, but them's the breaks.  I also considered depth and experience.  Basically, I looked at it and said "what group of guys, based on what I've seen, would be the best collection to coach and have success this year," and those are the rankings I came up with.

My main point is that with KSU's combination of experience, depth, and some ability, I think they project out to 5-7 in the Big XII when compared to other teams.  Add in coaching, and KSU is a legitimate Top 4 contender when compared to the other Big XII teams this year, thanks to various factors including lack of depth and/or experience and weak or new coaches.

[ChiefCatchacold]

A look back at the pre-season rankings:

2006-07 BIG 12 PRESEASON POLL
 Team (First place votes)   Points
 1. Kansas (11)   121
 2. Texas A&M (1)   109
 3. Oklahoma State   97
 4. Texas   95
 5. Kansas State   76
 6. Texas Tech   68
 7. Baylor   60
 8. Missouri   44
 9. Oklahoma   42
10. Nebraska   37
11. Iowa State   23
12. Colorado   20

[fatty fat fat]

When I ranked them, I just kinda guesstimated it, based on my impressions of the way the guys on the various rosters have been playing as I've seen them, now that I've seen every Big XII team play at least one game.

So, mine aren't based on recruiting rankings.  Of course, coaching plays a factor b/c of the coaches who have done a better job of putting their players into position to play to their strengths and performance is the biggest factor I'm considering, but them's the breaks.  I also considered depth and experience.  Basically, I looked at it and said "what group of guys, based on what I've seen, would be the best collection to coach and have success this year," and those are the rankings I came up with.

My main point is that with KSU's combination of experience, depth, and some ability, I think they project out to 5-7 in the Big XII when compared to other teams.  Add in coaching, and KSU is a legitimate Top 4 contender when compared to the other Big XII teams this year, thanks to various factors including lack of depth and/or experience and weak or new coaches.

It's so hard to rate teams talent. You have to pick some sort of reference and stick with that hoping all the errors will even out because of consistency. RSCI ratings on current teams, the players with (2007) give you a look how it will be next year.


Kansas
36 (2003) - Rodrick Stewart
31 (2004) - Russel Robinson
43 (2004) - Sasha Kaun
68 (2004) - Darnell Jackson
6  (2005) - Julian Wright
8.5(2005) - Mario Chamlers
14 (2005) - Brandon Rush
11 (2006) - Darrell Arthur
14 (2006) - Sherron Collins
42 (2007) - Cole Aldrich
62 (2007) - Tyrel Reed

Texas
83 (2005) - A.J. Abrams
2  (2006) - Kevin Durant
15 (2006) - Damion James
29 (2006) - D.J. Augustin
82 (2006) - Dexter Pittman
19 (2007) - Gary Johnson
73 (2007) - Clint Chapman

Missouri
45 (2004) - Jason Horton
47 (2004) - Marshall Brown
63 (2004) - Kalen Grimes
66 (2005) - Leo Lyons

Oklahoma State
53 (2004) - JamesOn Curry
66 (2005) - Terrel Harris
91 (2005) - Kenny Cooper
35 (2006) - Obi Muonelo - out for the year
40 (2007) - James Anderson

Kansas State:
54 (2003) - Cartier Martin
42 (2006) - Jason Bennett
4  (2007) - Michael Beasley
8  (2007) - Bill Walker
80 (2007) - Dominique Sutton

Oklahoma:
97 (2004) - Longar Longar (LOL@name)
96 (2005) - Austin Johnson
67 (2006) - Keith Clark
17 (2007) - Blake Griffin

Texas A&M
63 (2006) - Bryan Davis
90 (2006) - Donald Sloan
11 (2007) - Deandre Jordan

Baylor
55 (2005) - Kevin Rodgers
69 (2006) - Tweedy Carter


Iowa State
94 (2004) - Rahshon Clark
57 (2007) - Craig Brackins

10-12)Texas Tech/Nebraska/Colorado - None

[michigancat]

When I ranked them, I just kinda guesstimated it, based on my impressions of the way the guys on the various rosters have been playing as I've seen them, now that I've seen every Big XII team play at least one game.

So, mine aren't based on recruiting rankings.  Of course, coaching plays a factor b/c of the coaches who have done a better job of putting their players into position to play to their strengths and performance is the biggest factor I'm considering, but them's the breaks.  I also considered depth and experience.  Basically, I looked at it and said "what group of guys, based on what I've seen, would be the best collection to coach and have success this year," and those are the rankings I came up with.

My main point is that with KSU's combination of experience, depth, and some ability, I think they project out to 5-7 in the Big XII when compared to other teams.  Add in coaching, and KSU is a legitimate Top 4 contender when compared to the other Big XII teams this year, thanks to various factors including lack of depth and/or experience and weak or new coaches.

It's so hard to rate teams talent. You have to pick some sort of reference and stick with that hoping all the errors will even out because of consistency. RSCI ratings on current teams, the players with (2007) give you a look how it will be next year.


Kansas
36 (2003) - Rodrick Stewart
31 (2004) - Russel Robinson
43 (2004) - Sasha Kaun
68 (2004) - Darnell Jackson
6  (2005) - Julian Wright
8.5(2005) - Mario Chamlers
14 (2005) - Brandon Rush
11 (2006) - Darrell Arthur
14 (2006) - Sherron Collins
42 (2007) - Cole Aldrich
62 (2007) - Tyrel Reed

Texas
83 (2005) - A.J. Abrams
2  (2006) - Kevin Durant
15 (2006) - Damion James
29 (2006) - D.J. Augustin
82 (2006) - Dexter Pittman
19 (2007) - Gary Johnson
73 (2007) - Clint Chapman

Missouri
45 (2004) - Jason Horton
47 (2004) - Marshall Brown
63 (2004) - Kalen Grimes
66 (2005) - Leo Lyons

Oklahoma State
53 (2004) - JamesOn Curry
66 (2005) - Terrel Harris
91 (2005) - Kenny Cooper
35 (2006) - Obi Muonelo - out for the year
40 (2007) - James Anderson

Kansas State:
54 (2003) - Cartier Martin
42 (2006) - Jason Bennett
4  (2007) - Michael Beasley
8  (2007) - Bill Walker
80 (2007) - Dominique Sutton

Oklahoma:
97 (2004) - Longar Longar (LOL@name)
96 (2005) - Austin Johnson
67 (2006) - Keith Clark
17 (2007) - Blake Griffin

Texas A&M
63 (2006) - Bryan Davis
90 (2006) - Donald Sloan
11 (2007) - Deandre Jordan

Baylor
55 (2005) - Kevin Rodgers
69 (2006) - Tweedy Carter


Iowa State
94 (2004) - Rahshon Clark
57 (2007) - Craig Brackins

10-12)Texas Tech/Nebraska/Colorado - None

Excellent research and thoughts.  I totally forgot Bennett was Top 100.  It's easy to do.

Kind of crazy that Stewart and Martin are the only two top 100 guys from the 03 class.

We will have more top 10's than anyone next year. 

[fatty fat fat]

There is a huge difference between top 8* players and top 20 players imo. Look at Durant vs James.


*arbitrary #, I swear! 

[ksu_FAN]

There is a huge difference between top 8* players and top 20 players imo. Look at Durant vs James.


*arbitrary #, I swear! 

Hilarious.

[fatty fat fat]

per ballplayers...


KSU will have Top Four/Big XII talent....

in Top Four this season with Bottom Four talent!!!

[sys]

the bp updates are kind of my thing trips.  not really fair of you.

[Kat Kid]

Here is the difference between us and teams like Tech/NU/MU.  Would you trade Jason Bennett and David Hoskins for  a player like Jackson/Maric/Hannah?  What about Cartier and Bennett?

Tech/NU/MU all have one player that is substantially better than the rest of their talent.  We have a pretty solidly mediocre bunch.  Hoskins stands out.  Cartier is clearly the best "go-to" consistent scorer we have.  Bennett has shown some potential as a freshman to become something in 4 years.  But Hannah, Jackson and Maric were clearly the best players on the court when we played them in 3 of the 4 games.  I'd trade two of our top 100 guys for one of those three.

[greasd up deaf guy]

1/2:  ku/Texas

3/4:  OSU/aTm

5/6/7:  KSU/Mizzou/Tech



8/9/10/11:  Baylor/CU/Nebraska/OU
12:  ISU

Spot on with what I would have said.