MU vs. KSU

[CatGa]

KSU's next game is on Wednesday, Jan 31 against Missouri Tigers (13 - 6) in Manhattan, Ks.  Game start time is 8:00 PM (CST).  Media coverage is ESPN Plus/ESPNU (TV), yahoo radio link with game channel, and 1350kman (Manhattan, KS) radio link. 

KSU Overall (15 - 6), Big 12 (4 - 2), Wildcats official athletic website.

MU Overall (13 - 6), Big 12 (2 - 4), MU official athletic website.

MU Team Stats

MU Schedule/Results

RPI, SOS, and Rankings (as of 01/26/07)

Code: [Select]

Source MU KSU
RealTime
RPI 83 56
SOS 73 97
Rankings        63 64
Sargin
Ratings 71 49
Pomeroy
RPI 83 57
SOS 73 97
Ratings 56 61
CBS Sportline
RPI 88 59
SOS 68 109
Mike Greenfield's
RPI 80 54
SOS 69 126
Rankings        80 54    


Foxsports Head-to-Head Comparison

Missouri BB Message Board

[WildCatzPhreak]

A few reasons we should beat MU:

Clent Stewart(had a big game vs MU last time, I don't think it was a fluke, I think he plays well against Anderson's style)
HUGE rebounding advantage
Akeem Wright vs Stephon Hannah
Momentum

My 02.

[ksu_FAN]

IMO this might be a tougher game than the NU game.  MU is coming with confidence after beating Tech and getting a "road win" at Colorado.  Brown, Hannah, and Horton playing well.  If we can get a decent crowd it will be a big help against them though.  Should be a fun one to watch.  There are chances for snow wednesday, I hope that doesn't happen and keep a good crowd away.

[Stillwater Cat]

"Wildcars" are winning... whoever they are. 

[jmlynch1]

we've done relatively well against the press. I think we'll do well again.

[ksu_FAN]

I agree that we've done well against pressure.  Usually people talk about our length helping us guard (as our 3 PT defense shows) but it also helps us see/pass over a press.  We've done a great job attacking pressure and getting easy buckets.

I am a little more concerned about this one b/c with MU's style you never know what might happen.  If you get a night the officials let MU get away with a few more reaches and shoves, you could be in trouble.  Horton, Hannah, and Brown are all playing well.

However, just like NU, this is the type of game Huggs was brought here to win THIS year.  A fellow north team, that we've already beat at their place, and with more holes in their line-up than we have.  That said, we need our scorers (Martin, Hoskins, and Harris) to get going again.  All three struggled wednesday, and it was a bit surprising b/c both Harris and Martin got off to fairly good starts, then went cold.  We've got to have at least 2 of those guys with 15+ wednesday.

[mavrick1821]

Keys to the game:

1) Akeem shuts down Hannah again.
2) Our "D" takes it to MU again and our fans rub it in
3) We have an average night on offense

Wild Cards:

How will the freshman, Colon and JB play against Grimes, Lyons, etc?  Not much of a factor in the first game, that may need to change after watching the TT game vs MU.

[Kat Kid]

A few reasons we should beat MU:

Clent Stewart(had a big game vs MU last time, I don't think it was a fluke, I think he plays well against Anderson's style)
HUGE rebounding advantage
Akeem Wright vs Stephon Hannah
Momentum

My 02.

Apparently a "big game" for our "best point guard" includes a 1-6 assist to turnover ratio.

[ksu_FAN]

...and 19 points.

Though he did mention the turnovers, the guy that was pretty pleased with Clent's play in Columbia was the coach. 

[Kat Kid]

...and 19 points.

Though he did mention the turnovers, the guy that was pretty pleased with Clent's play in Columbia was the coach. 

The 19 points would've been much better if he hadn't handled the ball in the back court.  The claim that he "plays well against Anderson's style" is just false based on the evidence.

Clent Stewart will consistently hit open three pointers and some jumpers.  That is his main skill.  I have yet to see the rule that says he must do this from the pg position.  The fact that Hoskins had to start bringing up the ball and then handing it over to Clent so that we weren't turning it over before even running a little offense tells you everything you need to know.

[ksu_FAN]

I think you're over playing the "Hoskins bringing the ball up the court" angle.  Yeah, it happened a few times, but the reason was MU was denying Stewart the ball.  The way we break pressure is by having our PG bring the ball in and Hoskins as the primary target.  Hoskins is great at using his size to get open and is our best passer, but sometimes the defense will take away getting the ball back to the PG.  However, that doesn't mean he's the guy we want initiating our offense, once in a while its fine for he or Akeem or Lance to bring it up, but the initiator of our offense is always going to be the PG.  Those guys being the primary ball handler would be disaster in the long run.  I'll acknowledge Stewart had some silly TOs in that game, but frankly outside 1 or 2 those were mainly on our side of the floor when he was trying to force a few things, but overall he was effective as the PG. 

Stewart isn't Steve Nash and he isn't going to make a bunch of no look passes and have a ton of assists, but he's great at getting the team into offense and has been our our best guard in letting the game come to him and playing within his abilities, though Young has been playing better lately.  The fact that Stew is showing confidence in his shot lately and is able to be more consistent than Young or Maybank is the reason why he's our #1 option at PG and will likley continue to be the rest of this season and probably next. 

And with Stewart being a JR, I hardly think Huggs is pumping him up like he has lately.  Certainly our HC bellieves in Stewart much more than many of our fans.

[1albatross]

I agree that 6 to's is way too many, but he did pretty well bringing the ball up the court as we did not have may to's in the backcourt.  Most of the to's Clent had were in the half court set forcing a pass he should not have.  He wasn't the only one guilty of that as we had several to's in the MU game from forcing passes and telegraphing what we were going to do.

[The Minister]

Isn't Stew a junior?

[catzacker]

Obviously it will be more difficult the second time around, even at home.  The things that happened the first time around (mainly Hannah getting in foul trouble and having a bad game and us going to the line about a thousand times) probably won’t happen again.  I think they are going to throw bodies at Hoskins just like NU did and if the refs are letting some contact go on Hoskins’ drives (like NU) then it’s gong to be tough.  Blake Young has played more under control the past few games, so hopefully that will translate to the MU game.   I don’t think we’ll see much of JB or the Puncher/Pouter. 

[ksu_FAN]

Isn't Stew a junior?

Yeah, typo fixed. 

[pissclams]

KK hates Stew. LOL.   I'm happy with how Stew has been playing and his contribution on the floor this season, that's all that really matters.

[WilliamTheWildcat]

I don't think it matters who they throw at Hoskins.  He'll take the bump, score and show the guns.

[Kat Kid]

I'm not sure what "running the offense" means to anyone else.  But I think that the numbers show that Clent is very competent at one thing hitting wide-open 3-pointers.  Everything else is a struggle for him, yet he continues to play the point and in-bound the ball.

In conference play here is what he has done:

A&M--- 2-4 3 pointers, 10 points with 2 assists with 1 to
T-Tech---- 0-2 3 pointers (7 points) with 4 assists and 5 turnovers
Missouri----- 2-3 3 pointers, 7-8 FT, 19 points, 1 assist and 6 turnovers
Baylor-----  2-4 3 pointers, 2 assists and 0 turnovers
Iowa St.----- 0-2 3 pointers, 0 assists and 2 turnovers
Nebraska------ 3-5 3 pointers, 3 assists and 0 turnovers

He's 9-20 from 3 (45%) and has 12 assists 14 turnovers.  I think my claim fits a little better with the data.  We'll see how many assists/turnovers/points Clent has on Wednesday, then against the Big 4 and on the road @ Nebraska.

[ksu_FAN]

The problem is his assist numbers are way low and he had two games with 5+ TOs.  Again, he's not your John Stockton-type PG, but for what he's asked to do, he's doing fine. 

If you look at Huggins' teams over time, he did not often have one guy who averaged 5+ assists per game, but he usually has several around 3 to 4 assists per game.  This team isn't quite there yet, but its approaching those numbers.  Clent struggled vs Tech and ISU and he had too many TOs in Columbia, but other than that he is doing exactly what he's asked to do; play solid defense, make open shots, and get the offense intiated, especially getting it to Hoskins or Martin at the high post.  By and large, Huggins has been pleased with his play, and that's enough of a measuring stick to me.  Simply put, he's the best PG we have right now, and will likely continue to be while being spelled/sharing time with Young and Maybank.

We all knew going in we didn't have the best passing or ballhandling team in the world, but Huggins has maximized those things with this team and we have enough to win plenty of Big 12 games.  Our main issue in the game we should've won was shooting 30% and not hitting open shots (vs Tech), not TOs and lack of PG play.  The aTm game came down to not making plays as well, but the ball was in Young's hands more than Stewarts, and frankly it wasn't a game any of us expected to win. 

[Kat Kid]

so its "Solid D" now?  Who played defense on Jarrius Jackson (23 points), Horton (13 points), Baylor backcourt combined for 28 points, Iowa St.'s Mike Taylor had 21, Nebraska was a solid effort all-around.

I don't know if Clent played against all these guys but I am pretty sure he played against Jackson/Horton/15 points of Baylor (think Bruce was guarded by others).

[pissclams]

You obviously know more about coaching and what a player brings to the floor than Huggins does, my question is, why the hell Weiser went with the easy hire instead of going out on a limb with an unproven Kat Kid?

[Kat Kid]

You obviously know more about coaching and what a player brings to the floor than Huggins does, my question is, why the hell Weiser went with the easy hire instead of going out on a limb with an unproven Kat Kid?

Huggins has to treat Clent with kid gloves because he faces the prospect of throwing Blake Young and Maybank out there for 30 minutes if Clent melts down.

I don't understand why everyone on here is so adverse to looking at statistics and making judgments about players and more comfortable with casually watching a game and making statements about a player's abilities.  But you're right I trust Huggins and we're winning.  I just think it is in spite of Clent playing the point not because of it.

[catzacker]

so its "Solid D" now?  Who played defense on Jarrius Jackson (23 points), Horton (13 points), Baylor backcourt combined for 28 points, Iowa St.'s Mike Taylor had 21, Nebraska was a solid effort all-around.

I don't know if Clent played against all these guys but I am pretty sure he played against Jackson/Horton/15 points of Baylor (think Bruce was guarded by others).

Who else do you want at PG?  Young?  Maybank?  Clent passes the ball into a turnover, Young dribbles it into a turnover and Maybank can't dribble or pass.    It's not like we've got Steve Nash sitting on our bench.  Clent, atleast in conference, has offered some offensive production.  And there is a marginal difference in their defensive abilities. 

[pissclams]

That's just it, it's not what Stew does on the floor that keeps him on it, but what he doesn't do.
Right now, he's the best option Huggins has and that's going to have to be good enough.

[ksu_FAN]

so its "Solid D" now?  Who played defense on Jarrius Jackson (23 points), Horton (13 points), Baylor backcourt combined for 28 points, Iowa St.'s Mike Taylor had 21, Nebraska was a solid effort all-around.

I don't know if Clent played against all these guys but I am pretty sure he played against Jackson/Horton/15 points of Baylor (think Bruce was guarded by others).

Go ahead and email Huggins and tell him he's an idiot then.  Many of the things I say about Clent are recycled from Huggins.  Its Huggins who says he's become a solid defender and improved as much as anyone on this team on that end of the floor.  Its Huggins who says when he has played well in Big 12 games outside the ISU game.  Its Huggins who says he's the hardest working player on the team who knows most about our opponent going into games.  Clent is playing 30+ minutes per game lately b/c Huggins keeps throwing him in there, there has to be some reason for that.

There is plenty in Clent's game that isn't where it needs to be; he needs to be getting more assists and avoid any TOs that lead to points for the other team.  But there has to be a reason other than "he's the only one we got" as for why he's playing more minutes at PG than anyone else.  He's doing more than just hitting open 3s.

[pissclams]

It's not like we've got Steve Nash sitting on our bench.

MysTrans??

[Kat Kid]

I'm not necessarily advocating an alternative (although I think that a two-guard tandem with stewart and blake or more ball handling for hoskins might help) I'm just saying that it is insane to claim that Clent is doing much of anything well besides hitting open threes.  I want him on the floor to do that, just like I want hoskins on the floor to score (despite his and O inconsistency) like I want Cartier on the floor to shoot, like I want Bennett on the floor to guard the lane, like I want Akeem on the floor to guard their best offensive guard/wingman and rebound and like I want Lance to come on and hit some threes.  We have a ton of players that are good at one small specific thing, the key is making line-ups and rotations that have enough scoring/defensive/ball-handling etc. balance to allow us to win.

[ksu_FAN]

If all Clent did was hit open 3s, he wouldn't be playing and I don't think we are winning in spite of his play.  And I don't see Huggins treating him with kid gloves at all, I don't know that he treats anyone on this team with kid gloves. 

I do agree that each player is accepting their roles and they have to b/c we have plenty of weaknesses.  I'm not pushing Stew for All-Big 12 or anything b/c he's not near at that level, I just don't think he's as bad as you are saying.

[Kat Kid]

so its "Solid D" now?  Who played defense on Jarrius Jackson (23 points), Horton (13 points), Baylor backcourt combined for 28 points, Iowa St.'s Mike Taylor had 21, Nebraska was a solid effort all-around.

I don't know if Clent played against all these guys but I am pretty sure he played against Jackson/Horton/15 points of Baylor (think Bruce was guarded by others).

Go ahead and email Huggins and tell him he's an idiot then.  Many of the things I say about Clent are recycled from Huggins.  Its Huggins who says he's become a solid defender and improved as much as anyone on this team on that end of the floor.  Its Huggins who says when he has played well in Big 12 games outside the ISU game.  Its Huggins who says he's the hardest working player on the team who knows most about our opponent going into games.  Clent is playing 30+ minutes per game lately b/c Huggins keeps throwing him in there, there has to be some reason for that.

There is plenty in Clent's game that isn't where it needs to be; he needs to be getting more assists and avoid any TOs that lead to points for the other team.  But there has to be a reason other than "he's the only one we got" as for why he's playing more minutes at PG than anyone else.  He's doing more than just hitting open 3s.

That is an incredibly weak take ksu_fan.  Don't hide behind Huggins' skirt.  Say what you think and give examples.  So far I've listed tons of statistics as evidence to buttress my claims, everyone else is just like "whatever, OMG!"  Clent may well be the best we have (not saying much) but I'm not convinced that we've tried everything possible to reign in his turnovers and improve our perimeter defense (something Young can do), we'll see what happens as play progresses, but right now the returns are much as I've called them if we rely on stats as opposed to people's perceptions.

[Kat Kid]

If all Clent did was hit open 3s, he wouldn't be playing and I don't think we are winning in spite of his play.  And I don't see Huggins treating him with kid gloves at all, I don't know that he treats anyone on this team with kid gloves. 

I do agree that each player is accepting their roles and they have to b/c we have plenty of weaknesses.  I'm not pushing Stew for All-Big 12 or anything b/c he's not near at that level, I just don't think he's as bad as you are saying.

If Huggins doesn't treat anyone with kid gloves then why does Colon keep starting.  He must be the worst attitude on the team and he's a below average rebounder, why not "set an example of him?"  Maybe it is because Huggins wants to give him incentives and keep in on track and working?  Just guessing here.