Gill's Staff?

[cireksu]

Is there anyone on the staff that didn't get fired from their last job or Coach under Terry Allen?

[catzacker]

I'd take ku's assistants over ours.

[Pete]

I'd take ku's assistants over ours.

I was on hold yesterday with 810am when they had Crabby on, but I didn't get in.  I was going to ask Crabby to name one staff in the Big 12 that he believes is a clearly worse group of recruiters than KSU.

[Legore]

Most coaches get fired at some point in time.  Just the way things work in coaching.  I think the staff is pretty good not great but pretty good.  As far as comparing to KSU's staff it's kind of  hard to say because KSU has a couple of spots pending.  It's not as good as the staff that Snyder first brought in when he came back but of course Ludwig never coached a game and Koenning only stayed one year.  

[steve dave]

I'd take ku's assistants over ours.

I'd take every staff in the big 12 over ours (hate to lump Dickey into this but he can't save them).  IDEA!  What if we force Bill to work with the assistants hand picked by the AD.  Like, Bill's still in charge or whatever but he can't hire any old non-recruiting losers to his staff.  EVEN BETTER IDEA! We decide who to offer assistant jobs to by message board polling.  DISCLAIMER!  sd's vote is worth 1,000 regular poster votes to assure our staff is handsome and can recruit the living f^ck out of some high school kids. 

[catzacker]

Most coaches get fired at some point in time.  Just the way things work in coaching.  I think the staff is pretty good not great but pretty good.  As far as comparing to KSU's staff it's kind of  hard to say because KSU has a couple of spots pending.   It's not as good as the staff that Snyder first brought in when he came back but of course Ludwig never coached a game and Koenning only stayed one year.  

I struggle to think that anyone we’ll be excited about will take the open spots.  I wouldn’t mind Clint Bowen (would absolutely love Doeren, though that’s a complete pipe dream).  Even with someone like Bowen, I still put Gill’s staff above Snyd’s.  It really wouldn’t even be close.  I think the reality is that good coaches/recruiters who aren’t desperate or aren’t on their way out of their current job already, do not want to work for Bill Snyder (which doesn’t mean they don’t respect him or think he’s a super neat coach).

[Pete]

Most coaches get fired at some point in time.  Just the way things work in coaching.  I think the staff is pretty good not great but pretty good.  As far as comparing to KSU's staff it's kind of  hard to say because KSU has a couple of spots pending.   It's not as good as the staff that Snyder first brought in when he came back but of course Ludwig never coached a game and Koenning only stayed one year.  

I struggle to think that anyone we’ll be excited about will take the open spots.  I wouldn’t mind Clint Bowen (would absolutely love Doeren, though that’s a complete pipe dream).  Even with someone like Bowen, I still put Gill’s staff above Snyd’s.  It really wouldn’t even be close.  I think the reality is that good coaches/recruiters who aren’t desperate or aren’t on their way out of their current job already, do not want to work for Bill Snyder (which doesn’t mean they don’t respect him or think he’s a super neat coach).

No one can say enough wonderful things about how wonderful Bill's X's and O's are. 

Now, when the conversation turns to whether you'd like to work for the butter vs. margarine guy who won't let you &@#%ing recruit after the Big 12 championship game and will work your dick into the dirt and won't let you see your wife and kids because he never wanted to see his own and cant' imagine why anyone else would....well, the list of applications begins to dwindle.

[michigancat]

I'd take ku's assistants over ours.

I'd take every staff in the big 12 over ours (hate to lump Dickey into this but he can't save them).  IDEA!  What if we force Bill to work with the assistants hand picked by the AD.  Like, Bill's still in charge or whatever but he can't hire any old non-recruiting losers to his staff.  EVEN BETTER IDEA! We decide who to offer assistant jobs to by message board polling.  DISCLAIMER!  sd's vote is worth 1,000 regular poster votes to assure our staff is handsome and can recruit the living f^ck out of some high school kids.  

I'm on board with this.  I'd give PW like, 10,000 votes.

[Legore]

Most coaches get fired at some point in time.  Just the way things work in coaching.  I think the staff is pretty good not great but pretty good.  As far as comparing to KSU's staff it's kind of  hard to say because KSU has a couple of spots pending.   It's not as good as the staff that Snyder first brought in when he came back but of course Ludwig never coached a game and Koenning only stayed one year.  

I struggle to think that anyone we’ll be excited about will take the open spots.  I wouldn’t mind Clint Bowen (would absolutely love Doeren, though that’s a complete pipe dream).  Even with someone like Bowen, I still put Gill’s staff above Snyd’s.  It really wouldn’t even be close.  I think the reality is that good coaches/recruiters who aren’t desperate or aren’t on their way out of their current job already, do not want to work for Bill Snyder (which doesn’t mean they don’t respect him or think he’s a super neat coach).

I think people on here are just prone to undervalue  our staff and over value others.  Most all of the coaches at KSU  have been at good programs that won a lot of games.  Pretty much all of them were also gainfully employed and left jobs at programs that were winning to work for Snyder.  The one exception to this and the one I don't agree with is Del but it sounds like he could be changing roles.   Had Ludwig not bolted I don't think Del would have been in anything more then an Admin role to begin with.   

[catzacker]

Most coaches get fired at some point in time.  Just the way things work in coaching.  I think the staff is pretty good not great but pretty good.  As far as comparing to KSU's staff it's kind of  hard to say because KSU has a couple of spots pending.   It's not as good as the staff that Snyder first brought in when he came back but of course Ludwig never coached a game and Koenning only stayed one year.  

I struggle to think that anyone we’ll be excited about will take the open spots.  I wouldn’t mind Clint Bowen (would absolutely love Doeren, though that’s a complete pipe dream).  Even with someone like Bowen, I still put Gill’s staff above Snyd’s.  It really wouldn’t even be close.  I think the reality is that good coaches/recruiters who aren’t desperate or aren’t on their way out of their current job already, do not want to work for Bill Snyder (which doesn’t mean they don’t respect him or think he’s a super neat coach).

I think people on here are just prone to undervalue  our staff and over value others.  Most all of the coaches at KSU  have been at good programs that won a lot of games.  Pretty much all of them were also gainfully employed and left jobs at programs that were winning to work for Snyder.  The one exception to this and the one I don't agree with is Del but it sounds like he could be changing roles.   Had Ludwig not bolted I don't think Del would have been in anything more then an Admin role to begin with.   

I don’t value them because (a) they had their shot at ksu the first time around and wrecked a conference championship program and (b) they really didn’t go places and have success.  Where did M Smith go? Zona?  They didn’t really have success until this year.  Joe Bob went to San Diego ST and they sucked then went to ku and ku couldn’t get a pass rush to save its ass while he was there.  Del went to San Diego State and they sucked.  Rahne was part of the sucking under Prince at KSU.  Cosh was getting run out of So Carolina before he came to ksu the first time, then left to go to Maryland and Ralph couldn’t get him out the door quick enough.  Mo is just an old, tired man.  IIRC, Dimel was a GA at KSU in 04 or 05, after failing at Houston (though he had some success at Wyoming), then went o zona..again, see Michael Smith.  I don’t mind Dimel on staff soley because of his connections to Blinn.  Vic was desperate for a job after Dabo let him go, though he had success at Clemson and there were rumors about LSU wanting him (though they didn’t have room for him then).  Dickey is liteally the only guy who came to KSU for no apparent reason while having success at his previous job (though apparently his wife is from KS).  When you look at this f’ing staff….how the hell am I undervaluing it?

[steve dave]

catzacker is a very good message boarder fwiw

[KITNfury]

Most coaches get fired at some point in time.  Just the way things work in coaching.  I think the staff is pretty good not great but pretty good.  As far as comparing to KSU's staff it's kind of  hard to say because KSU has a couple of spots pending.   It's not as good as the staff that Snyder first brought in when he came back but of course Ludwig never coached a game and Koenning only stayed one year.  

I struggle to think that anyone we’ll be excited about will take the open spots.  I wouldn’t mind Clint Bowen (would absolutely love Doeren, though that’s a complete pipe dream).  Even with someone like Bowen, I still put Gill’s staff above Snyd’s.  It really wouldn’t even be close.  I think the reality is that good coaches/recruiters who aren’t desperate or aren’t on their way out of their current job already, do not want to work for Bill Snyder (which doesn’t mean they don’t respect him or think he’s a super neat coach).

I think people on here are just prone to undervalue  our staff and over value others.  Most all of the coaches at KSU  have been at good programs that won a lot of games.  Pretty much all of them were also gainfully employed and left jobs at programs that were winning to work for Snyder.  The one exception to this and the one I don't agree with is Del but it sounds like he could be changing roles.   Had Ludwig not bolted I don't think Del would have been in anything more then an Admin role to begin with.   

I don’t value them because (a) they had their shot at ksu the first time around and wrecked a conference championship program and (b) they really didn’t go places and have success.  Where did M Smith go? Zona?  They didn’t really have success until this year.  Joe Bob went to San Diego ST and they sucked then went to ku and ku couldn’t get a pass rush to save its ass while he was there.  Del went to San Diego State and they sucked.  Rahne was part of the sucking under Prince at KSU.  Cosh was getting run out of So Carolina before he came to ksu the first time, then left to go to Maryland and Ralph couldn’t get him out the door quick enough.  Mo is just an old, tired man.  IIRC, Dimel was a GA at KSU in 04 or 05, after failing at Houston (though he had some success at Wyoming), then went o zona..again, see Michael Smith.  I don’t mind Dimel on staff soley because of his connections to Blinn.  Vic was desperate for a job after Dabo let him go, though he had success at Clemson and there were rumors about LSU wanting him (though they didn’t have room for him then).  Dickey is liteally the only guy who came to KSU for no apparent reason while having success at his previous job (though apparently his wife is from KS).  When you look at this f’ing staff….how the hell am I undervaluing it?

[sonofchadmay]

  When you look at this f’ing staff….how the hell am I undervaluing it?
[/quote]

Maybe the fact that they took a complete undisciplined ass clown of a team and won 4 conference games 

[catzacker]

  When you look at this f’ing staff….how the hell am I undervaluing it?

Maybe the fact that they took a complete undisciplined ass clown of a team and won 4 conference games 


[/quote]

First, just to clarify, you're talking about Snyder’s staff taking over for Prince’s staff and then going 4-4 in conference in their first year not Prince’s staff taking over for Snyder’s staff and gong 4-4 in conference in it’s first year?

[cireksu]

I'm sure that dickey was coming because ludwig asked him to.  dickey's too old to do much jumping around though.  He's screwed.

[Ghost of Stan Parrish]

Zacker's hatred of Snyder causes him to overstate things.  Ludwig + Vic + Cosh + Dickey was a really damn good core of assistant coaches.  Dimel is OK, too.

Of course, Ludwig and Vic are gone, and all the others around them were pretty underwhelming.  So, that takes the wind out of the ol' sails.  Still, a great hire for the open spot could turn things around a bit.  (I don't consider Bowen a very good hire.)

[steve dave]

First, just to clarify, you're talking about Snyder’s staff taking over for Prince’s staff and then going 4-4 in conference in their first year not Prince’s staff taking over for Snyder’s staff and gong 4-4 in conference in it’s first year?

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

[waks]

catzacker is a very good message boarder fwiw

Sure, if you can read his posts and then remember to cut the negativity in half.

[Legore]

Most coaches get fired at some point in time.  Just the way things work in coaching.  I think the staff is pretty good not great but pretty good.  As far as comparing to KSU's staff it's kind of  hard to say because KSU has a couple of spots pending.   It's not as good as the staff that Snyder first brought in when he came back but of course Ludwig never coached a game and Koenning only stayed one year.  

I struggle to think that anyone we’ll be excited about will take the open spots.  I wouldn’t mind Clint Bowen (would absolutely love Doeren, though that’s a complete pipe dream).  Even with someone like Bowen, I still put Gill’s staff above Snyd’s.  It really wouldn’t even be close.  I think the reality is that good coaches/recruiters who aren’t desperate or aren’t on their way out of their current job already, do not want to work for Bill Snyder (which doesn’t mean they don’t respect him or think he’s a super neat coach).

I think people on here are just prone to undervalue  our staff and over value others.  Most all of the coaches at KSU  have been at good programs that won a lot of games.  Pretty much all of them were also gainfully employed and left jobs at programs that were winning to work for Snyder.  The one exception to this and the one I don't agree with is Del but it sounds like he could be changing roles.   Had Ludwig not bolted I don't think Del would have been in anything more then an Admin role to begin with.   

I don’t value them because (a) they had their shot at ksu the first time around and wrecked a conference championship program and (b) they really didn’t go places and have success.  Where did M Smith go? Zona?  They didn’t really have success until this year.  Joe Bob went to San Diego ST and they sucked then went to ku and ku couldn’t get a pass rush to save its ass while he was there.  Del went to San Diego State and they sucked.  Rahne was part of the sucking under Prince at KSU.  Cosh was getting run out of So Carolina before he came to ksu the first time, then left to go to Maryland and Ralph couldn’t get him out the door quick enough.  Mo is just an old, tired man.  IIRC, Dimel was a GA at KSU in 04 or 05, after failing at Houston (though he had some success at Wyoming), then went o zona..again, see Michael Smith.  I don’t mind Dimel on staff soley because of his connections to Blinn.  Vic was desperate for a job after Dabo let him go, though he had success at Clemson and there were rumors about LSU wanting him (though they didn’t have room for him then).  Dickey is liteally the only guy who came to KSU for no apparent reason while having success at his previous job (though apparently his wife is from KS).  When you look at this f’ing staff….how the hell am I undervaluing it?

Compare this to the guys that ku is bringing in then?  You put down Arizona but they were more successful 08 then any of the programs ku hired from were in 09.   Every coach that Snyder hired from the oustide (except Del whom we agree on) was coaching a bowl team the season before they came to KSU.  In ku's case I think maybe one or two were on bowl teams and the rest were coming off losing seasons.  

I'm not even saying our staff is a bunch of world beaters but if you're going to tear down our guys and spin everything as negatively as possible then step back and do the same thing for other staffs.  

[JTKSU]

  When you look at this f’ing staff….how the hell am I undervaluing it?

Maybe the fact that they took a complete undisciplined ass clown of a team and won 4 conference games 

First, just to clarify, you're talking about Snyder’s staff taking over for Prince’s staff and then going 4-4 in conference in their first year not Prince’s staff taking over for Snyder’s staff and gong 4-4 in conference in it’s first year?
[/quote]

Prince's original staff was pretty sweet.

[Pett]

(hate to lump Dickey into this but he can't save them).

QFT. We should've tried to bring the entire Utah coaching staff over when we had the chance (minus Ludwig, he's a tard)...

Now we're stuck with Snyd's BFF's.

[catzacker]

Compare this to the guys that ku is bringing in then?  You put down Arizona but they were more successful 08 then any of the programs ku hired from were in 09.   Every coach that Snyder hired from the oustide (except Del whom we agree on) was coaching a bowl team the season before they came to KSU.  In ku's case I think maybe one or two were on bowl teams and the rest were coming off losing seasons.  

I'm not even saying our staff is a bunch of world beaters but if you're going to tear down our guys and spin everything as negatively as possible then step back and do the same thing for other staffs.  

Wyatt and Mitchell have both been recognized as outstanding recruiters.  I don’t know if anyone on our staff has ever been accused of being that. The rest of each school’s staff is somewhat similar, though I’d take Torbush over Cosh, if only because the dude spent time in A&M and is, at least familiar with Texas.  Cosh is pretty much worthless in my eyes.  Dickey is prolly a better OL coach than JB Grimes, though not sure about his recruiting abilities.  Buddy Wyatt is supposed to be a good recruiter, so I’d take him over Mo (although I think Buddy has a terrible track record of being on staffs that end up getting canned…he was on RC’s and Callahan’s staffs and I think I’ve had post or two making fun of this).  

IMO, ku’s staff has more balance.  Collectively, KSU’s staff sucks and they have, collectively, shown that at ksu previously.  Wyatt and Mitchell, were not at ku at the same time on the same staffs.  Mitchell was on Glen’s staff, Wyatt on Terry's.  So I wouldn’t say that because Mitchell and Wyatt were previously on a ku staff that this time around they wouldn’t be successful (again, collectively you can’t make that assertion).  I don’t necessarily have a problem with Dimel given his connections to Blinn and the Houston area.  And quite honestly, I don’t necessarily have a big problem with JBC….but in concert with M. Smith, Del Miller, Ricky Rahne, Chris Cosh and Mo, this staff just isn’t that good.  

I understand you can’t have a staff that consists of nothing but great smelling, gorgeous looking, recruiting studs…..but we have no balance.  But this isn’t a new problem.  Snyder has basically had this “balance” problem since the exodus in ’98.  

[Legore]

Compare this to the guys that ku is bringing in then?  You put down Arizona but they were more successful 08 then any of the programs ku hired from were in 09.   Every coach that Snyder hired from the oustide (except Del whom we agree on) was coaching a bowl team the season before they came to KSU.  In ku's case I think maybe one or two were on bowl teams and the rest were coming off losing seasons.  

I'm not even saying our staff is a bunch of world beaters but if you're going to tear down our guys and spin everything as negatively as possible then step back and do the same thing for other staffs.  

Wyatt and Mitchell have both been recognized as outstanding recruiters.  I don’t know if anyone on our staff has ever been accused of being that. The rest of each school’s staff is somewhat similar, though I’d take Torbush over Cosh, if only because the dude spent time in A&M and is, at least familiar with Texas.  Cosh is pretty much worthless in my eyes.  Dickey is prolly a better OL coach than JB Grimes, though not sure about his recruiting abilities.  Buddy Wyatt is supposed to be a good recruiter, so I’d take him over Mo (although I think Buddy has a terrible track record of being on staffs that end up getting canned…he was on RC’s and Callahan’s staffs and I think I’ve had post or two making fun of this). 

IMO, ku’s staff has more balance.  Collectively, KSU’s staff sucks and they have, collectively, shown that at ksu previously.  Wyatt and Mitchell, I do not believe, were on Terry’s staff.  Mitchell was on Glen’s staff.  So I wouldn’t say that because Mitchell and Wyatt were previously on a ku staff that this time around they wouldn’t be successful (again, collectively you can’t make that assertion).  I don’t necessarily have a problem with Dimel given his connections to Blinn and the Houston area.  And quite honestly, I don’t necessarily have a big problem with JBC….but in concert with M. Smith, Del Miller, Ricky Rahne, Chris Cosh and Mo, this staff just isn’t that good. 

I understand you can’t have a staff that consists of nothing but great smelling, gorgeous looking, recruiting studs…..but we have no balance.  But this isn’t a new problem.  Snyder has basically had this “balance” problem since the exodus in ’98. 

Wyatt was on Terry Allen's staff at ku.  The problem with your analysis is that you give the guys from Snyder's old staff all the blame for the two bad seasons and none of the credit for the many good years before those two bad season.   At the very least it is a mixed bag though most neutral unbiased people would look at say Del Miller, Micheal Smith, or Mo Lattimores first tenures at KSU under Snyder and say there were on a whole quite successful. 

You give credit to Mitchell for being on Mason's staff at ku but none to those guys for being on Snyders staff at KSU?  Are you trying to say you rank Mason's tenure at ku above Snyder's at KSU?     

[mcmwcat]

First, just to clarify, you're talking about Snyder’s staff taking over for Prince’s staff and then going 4-4 in conference in their first year not Prince’s staff taking over for Snyder’s staff and gong 4-4 in conference in it’s first year?

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

^                  ^
idiots             zacker


 

[JTKSU]

Compare this to the guys that ku is bringing in then?  You put down Arizona but they were more successful 08 then any of the programs ku hired from were in 09.   Every coach that Snyder hired from the oustide (except Del whom we agree on) was coaching a bowl team the season before they came to KSU.  In ku's case I think maybe one or two were on bowl teams and the rest were coming off losing seasons.  

I'm not even saying our staff is a bunch of world beaters but if you're going to tear down our guys and spin everything as negatively as possible then step back and do the same thing for other staffs.  

Wyatt and Mitchell have both been recognized as outstanding recruiters.  I don’t know if anyone on our staff has ever been accused of being that. The rest of each school’s staff is somewhat similar, though I’d take Torbush over Cosh, if only because the dude spent time in A&M and is, at least familiar with Texas.  Cosh is pretty much worthless in my eyes.  Dickey is prolly a better OL coach than JB Grimes, though not sure about his recruiting abilities.  Buddy Wyatt is supposed to be a good recruiter, so I’d take him over Mo (although I think Buddy has a terrible track record of being on staffs that end up getting canned…he was on RC’s and Callahan’s staffs and I think I’ve had post or two making fun of this). 

IMO, ku’s staff has more balance.  Collectively, KSU’s staff sucks and they have, collectively, shown that at ksu previously.  Wyatt and Mitchell, I do not believe, were on Terry’s staff.  Mitchell was on Glen’s staff.  So I wouldn’t say that because Mitchell and Wyatt were previously on a ku staff that this time around they wouldn’t be successful (again, collectively you can’t make that assertion).  I don’t necessarily have a problem with Dimel given his connections to Blinn and the Houston area.  And quite honestly, I don’t necessarily have a big problem with JBC….but in concert with M. Smith, Del Miller, Ricky Rahne, Chris Cosh and Mo, this staff just isn’t that good. 

I understand you can’t have a staff that consists of nothing but great smelling, gorgeous looking, recruiting studs…..but we have no balance.  But this isn’t a new problem.  Snyder has basically had this “balance” problem since the exodus in ’98. 

Wyatt was on Terry Allen's staff at ku.  The problem with your analysis is that you give the guys from Snyder's old staff all the blame for the two bad seasons and none of the credit for the many good years before those two bad season.   At the very least it is a mixed bag though most neutral unbiased people would look at say Del Miller, Micheal Smith, or Mo Lattimores first tenures at KSU under Snyder and say there were on a whole quite successful. 

You give credit to Mitchell for being on Mason's staff at ku but none to those guys for being on Snyders staff at KSU?  Are you trying to say you rank Mason's tenure at ku above Snyder's at KSU?     

There's really no point arguing with this kid.  His only response to any logic is:  KSU's recruits/coaches suck.  His rabid anti-Snyder view point is completely blind to the success and experience this staff has had at KSU and elsewhere.

[catzacker]

Wyatt was on Terry Allen's staff at ku.  The problem with your analysis is that you give the guys from Snyder's old staff all the blame for the two bad seasons and none of the credit for the many good years before those two bad season.   At the very least it is a mixed bag though most neutral unbiased people would look at say Del Miller, Micheal Smith, or Mo Lattimores first tenures at KSU under Snyder and say there were on a whole quite successful.  

You give credit to Mitchell for being on Mason's staff at ku but none to those guys for being on Snyders staff at KSU?  Are you trying to say you rank Mason's tenure at ku above Snyder's at KSU?    

No, I’m actually doing the opposite of what you’re saying.  I’m not blaming Terry Allen’s tenure on Darryl Wyatt or Glen’s tenure on Mitchell…because they were just one piece of it, whereas with KSU, we have a core group of assistants (JBC, Del, M. Smith, Cosh, Mo, even Rahne) who were part of the decline of KSU football and who are back now.  

For example, bobby Elliott sucked because he and the other guys on the staff couldn’t recruit.  But people wanted to believe that it was just bobby Elliott.  Same goes with Terry Allen.  Would it be fair to put Terry Allen’s tenure on Wyatt?  Or would it be more fair to blame the fall of KSU football on a collection of people….and if that’s the case, what happens when a majority of those people are back?  Unless you want to put the recruiting failures between ’02-05 solely on bobby Elliott, greg Peterson and matt miller.  Because that’s what you’d be saying. 

Sure, Del and Mo were here when ksu was good, but, imo, ksu’s goodness during their tenure has more to do with jim Leavitt, bob stoop, brent venables, and mike stoops than anything they ever did.  For example, add Wyatt, Mitchell, and Buddy Wyatt to KSU’s staff and take out Del, Mo, and Rahne, and I’d think Snyder had a nice, balanced staff.  

[michigancat]

There's really no point arguing with this kid.  His only response to any logic is:  KSU's recruits/coaches suck.  His rabid anti-Snyder view point is completely blind to the success and experience this staff has had at KSU and elsewhere.

Have you even read his posts?  He's bringing up excellent points.

[BMWJhawk]

The most impressive thing about Gill, IMO, was that he had his offensive and defensive coordinators selected before he was hired.  Long and Torbush both have head coaching experience and have been coordinators in the Big 12 and SEC.  Wyatt and Mitchell are very good recruiters, and have a history of bringing in top talent.  On paper, I'd say that Gill's assistants are superior to Mangino's.

[sonofdaxjones]

Well of either of the Coordinators . . . Carl Torbush is going to have to show me a lot based on his track record over the last few years to convince me he's got things going back in the right direction. 

[Pett]

The most impressive thing about Gill, IMO, was that he had his offensive and defensive coordinators selected before he was hired.  Long and Torbush both have head coaching experience and have been coordinators in the Big 12 and SEC.  Wyatt and Mitchell are very good recruiters, and have a history of bringing in top talent.  On paper, I'd say that Gill's assistants are superior to Mangino's.

I'm just telling you, Warinner was a HUGE loss. WAY bigger than you think. He's ten times better of an OC then Long. Not to mention, Bowen could recruit Kansas like none other.