Are we playing too slow?

[michigancat]

Somewhere in the middle of dax's inane bitching about playing Colon, he accidentally brought up a semi-coherent point:

Why do we let ourselves play half-court offense?

We're playing at about the same pace we were last year through 10 games, only this year our posts are retards with their back to the basket and we have a really fast point guard.

IMO, our best possessions are where we make one pass to Fred Brown for a three w/ 30 left on the shot clock.  <-Not kidding

[Saulbadguy]

I'd say it depends on the opponents offensive prowess.

[michigancat]

elaborate, saul.

[catzacker]

i don't want to look, but how are we playing defense compared to last year.

[Saulbadguy]

elaborate, saul.

I think if the other team plays an legit up-tempo offense and is shooting a high FG% we should limit their offensive possessions. 

At that point it probably wouldn't matter anymore, though.

[michigancat]

i don't want to look, but how are we playing defense compared to last year.

About the same through the same number of games.  This year's schedule is a little tougher.

http://kenpom.com/expsked.php?team=Kansas%20St.&y=2009

http://kenpom.com/expsked.php?team=Kansas%20St.&y=2008

[michigancat]

Also, if we can't do the one pass to Fred Brown offense, I think we should run the Denis Clemente 3 point runner offense.  That was pretty sweet.

[steve dave]

Also, if we can't do the one pass to Fred Brown offense, I think we should run the Denis Clemente 3 point runner offense.  That was pretty sweet.

Best part was how fast he ran into the locker room for no reason.  SLOW DOWN DENIS!

[catzacker]

i don't want to look, but how are we playing defense compared to last year.

About the same through the same number of games.  This year's schedule is a little tougher.

http://kenpom.com/expsked.php?team=Kansas%20St.&y=2009

http://kenpom.com/expsked.php?team=Kansas%20St.&y=2008

....then I'm all for playing like tennessee.  and actually now that I think about it, it shouldn't matter how we play defense, we have no hope of "running" an offense with Kent, Colon, and Ron Anderson as our "bigs".  F*ck it, just let our guards shoot with an unset defense and try to rebound out of that.

[Oklahoma_Cat]

Think Denis needs a certain distance to come to a complete stop, so he had to keep going until he hit a wall or something.

[treysolid]

i don't want to look, but how are we playing defense compared to last year.

About the same through the same number of games.  This year's schedule is a little tougher.

http://kenpom.com/expsked.php?team=Kansas%20St.&y=2009

http://kenpom.com/expsked.php?team=Kansas%20St.&y=2008

....then I'm all for playing like tennessee.  and actually now that I think about it, it shouldn't matter how we play defense, we have no hope of "running" an offense with Kent, Colon, and Ron Anderson as our "bigs".  F*ck it, just let our guards shoot with an unset defense and try to rebound out of that.

you need athletic bigs to make that "offense" work.  as it is, we only have 1.  we'd get killed in the transition game doing that.

[ksu_FAN]

The only really "too slow" game was Iowa.  Last night's pace was fine.  But you aren't going to win many games against even decent teams when your offensive efficiency is in the mid to low 90s.  Unless you play ferocious defense, which we didn't.  What we do really well on defense is force teams into bad ball handling/passing situations which leads to forcing a bunch of turnovers, which we do very well.  But it appears to me that this risky defense also is leading to quite a few good looks and as we've played some decent teams lately they've shot the ball pretty well.

And personnel-wise we have to face it, unless we get better play from Pullen and to a lesser extent Kent we aren't going to win games against teams with a pulse.  IMO those two figuring it out and giving us better minutes is one of the biggest keys to this team having a chance to finish .500 in the league.  That and figuring out defensive rotations with what Frank is trying to do to contest more shots. 

[steve dave]

sd lbbiq point of infuriation:  Our bigs insisting on taking a dribble after every offensive board.

[treysolid]

sd lbbiq point of infuriation:  Our bigs insisting on taking a dribble after every offensive board.

not lbbiq in any way.  they probably get 3-5 TO's a game doing that.

[sonofdaxjones]

Well that was on great point in the midst of many.

But hey, when faced with the offensive fire power of Oregon's "bigs" . . . get Luis Colon 17 minutes, but I digress.

Last night, KSU still out rebounds Oregon even without that glass eating animal Luis "1 offensive rebound" Colon. 

So clear the glass and push the ball, or just get into a half court game and let them get 27 from behind the arc.

[catzacker]

i don't want to look, but how are we playing defense compared to last year.

About the same through the same number of games.  This year's schedule is a little tougher.

http://kenpom.com/expsked.php?team=Kansas%20St.&y=2009

http://kenpom.com/expsked.php?team=Kansas%20St.&y=2008

....then I'm all for playing like tennessee.  and actually now that I think about it, it shouldn't matter how we play defense, we have no hope of "running" an offense with Kent, Colon, and Ron Anderson as our "bigs".  F*ck it, just let our guards shoot with an unset defense and try to rebound out of that.

you need athletic bigs to make that "offense" work.  as it is, we only have 1.  we'd get killed in the transition game doing that.

it's better than trying to "work" it into Kent or Anderson or Colon on the block, then trying to rebound their retarded effort. 

[Oklahoma_Cat]

sd lbbiq point of infuriation:  Our bigs insisting on taking a dribble after every offensive board.

qft

I remember one instance specifically where Colon grabbed a rebound, bounced it once and lost it.  Had he just gone up with it, he was in position to score.  Lame-o.

[mcmwcat]

sd lbbiq point of infuriation:  Our bigs insisting on taking a dribble after every offensive board.

qft

I remember one instance specifically where Colon grabbed a rebound, bounced it once and lost it.  Had he just gone up with it, he was in position to score.  Lame-o.

or what about when colon got his shot changed by a midget and ended up missing the layup

[Paul11]

Think Denis needs a certain distance to come to a complete stop, so he had to keep going until he hit a wall or something.

I've nicknamed him Luis Mendoza from Mighty Ducks 2 for the same reason.

[sys]

sutton played 11 minutes last night.  cmerr 22, kent 15.

[mcmwcat]

sutton played 11 minutes last night.  cmerr 22, kent 15.

jfc pos mf

[JTKSU]

I'd say it depends on the opponents offensive prowess.

Also harder to run the break off a made basket.

[McGrowlTowelZac]

sutton played 11 minutes last night.  cmerr 22, kent 15.

jfc pos mf

This just proves that this team has a long way to go, players and coaching.  Its a learning process.

[michigancat]

sutton played 11 minutes last night.  cmerr 22, kent 15.

jfc pos mf

This just proves that this team has a long way to go, players and coaching.  Its a learning process.

Frank will sacrifice wins for lessons.

If we tell this to ourselves, no loss will ever hurt.  Sutton on the bench against Porter will help him guarding Sharon Collins in February.

[sys]

Frank will sacrifice wins for lessons.

pullen played 28 minutes.

[michigancat]

Frank will sacrifice wins for lessons.

pullen played 28 minutes.

Lowest of the season?

[pissclams]

Frank will sacrifice wins for lessons.

pullen played 28 minutes.

obviously frank believes he's done teaching The cob lessons.

[nicname]

IMHO, we need to slow it down a little more.  Too many times we are out of control when we are playing fast.  I'm all for fast and uptempo but out of control is not good. 

I was impressed with RA and JS in the post during the second half, we had a nice run there when we kept working inside out with them.  Keep in mind we have a really young team, these guy will continue to improve. 


Kent is playing himself out of a job.

emaw

[Skydog]

Think Denis needs a certain distance to come to a complete stop, so he had to keep going until he hit a wall or something.

I've nicknamed him Luis Mendoza from Mighty Ducks 2 for the same reason.

Loved all 3 of them. 

[jthutch]

IMHO, we need to slow it down a little more.  Too many times we are out of control when we are playing fast.  I'm all for fast and uptempo but out of control is not good. 

I was impressed with RA and JS in the post during the second half, we had a nice run there when we kept working inside out with them.  Keep in mind we have a really young team, these guy will continue to improve. 


Kent is playing himself out of a job.

emaw

I agree Anderson had about 3-4 plays in a row where he dominated his man and made some easy buckets but then we went away from getting him the ball.  We need the point guards and wings to get the ball to Samuals and Anderson a little more even Colon (I can't believe I just said that)  But we need to make teams sag in a little so we can get the open 3's.  And when I say open 3's not dribble up the court stop at 25ft and launch it.  Pullen Your the  selfish :curse:player