BigJ . . .

[sonofdaxjones]

I know you're 7 kinds of dumbass.  Wow, a few tickets in some better sections available. 

This coming from a fan of a school that had its best season in 40 years and a 5-7 K-State team STILL outdrew them.

Oh, just a little reminder.  You may be bragging about ku athletics cash flow, but right now ku athletics is up to its eyeballs in debt.  Still paying off the bonds on the Memorial Stadium renovation from 10 years ago, you need to pay back on a no interest loan,  you guys borrowed $4 million from the ku endowment to finish the Anderson Strength Center, and now you just issued another $30 million in bonds (and you're seriously bragging about having $4 million PLEDGED to help pay that down??).   It's no wonder Lew Perkins has to steal $3 million dollars a year from the students on top of making them pay for student season tickets.   You had better hope the "cash" keeps coming in (and it's not Kivisto dollars) because Lew is piling up debt right and left.   Speaking of Kivisto . . . hell of a spin job the folks in the athletic department at ku are doing on that one so far.   

Plus why does ku have to go borrow all this money anyway??  Why to read you, and listen to the other phogtards talk all Lew has to do is make a couple of phone calls and the 7 figure checks coming rolling in???   Seriously, some "rich" ku guy wants ku to pay him back the money he loaned them to help pay for the football complex . . . a freaking booster loan?? 

Yes . . . you've been called out.   





    * BigJku316
    * [Scout Subscriber]
    * All Conference
    * Rating: 3.9/5 this site
    * 9721 posts this site
    * Ignore this Member
    * Send Private Message

Avatar
   

Posted: Today 9:50 AM
Tickets Avaliable KSU Fans... Post Rating (2 votes)
A lot of them...

You can have 4 tickets on the 30 on the lower level right now for just about any non-conference game you want.

Conference tickets will push you all the way out to the 15-20 yard line.  Still lower level though.  For Iowa State you can buy 4 tickets for $99 too cat fans.

You wonder why you have not heard any rumblings about season ticket numbers in Manhattan?  Because it is going to be a ghost town.

For comparison sake 4 seats to the ku-CU or the ku-L-Tech game will put you in the first 15 rows of section 24, which is east side somewhere in or out of the back of the endzone.

Good luck kitties, enjoy the pending financial implosion over the next few years.


IOWA STATE
Event Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008 time TBD
Facility: Wagner Field
Price Type   Level   Section   Row   Seat(s)   Qty   Price   Fee(s)   Amount
PUBLIC   1   4   1   12-15   4   55.00   0.00   220.00
TEXAS TECH
Event Date: Saturday, October 4, 2008 time TBD
Facility: Wagner Field
Price Type   Level   Section   Row   Seat(s)   Qty   Price   Fee(s)   Amount
PUBLIC   1   7   2   29-32

[GoldbrickGangBoss]

Good lord you are owned. Replying to threads on other sites over here. Trying to play it off in your sig.

Its like you set sail as captain of the failboat.

[sonofdaxjones]

Says the guy with 2114 posts on this board and who responds to everything I post.   

[cireksu]

GB you DO reply to everything he posts.

[QuinnMac]

GB you DO reply to everything he posts.

ya he is a real loser

[Winters]

GB you DO reply to everything he posts.

ya he is a real loser

QFMFT

[wes mantooth]

Sh4wn "BAMF" Wint3rs layin' it down strong!

[QuinnMac]

Sh4wn "BAMF" Wint3rs layin' it down strong!

QFMFT

[GoldbrickGangBoss]

GB you DO reply to everything he posts.

Count how many Dax threads in the last month that he's started and that I've responded to.

I'll be waiting.

On the edge of my seat.

[BRULL]

GB you DO reply to everything he posts.

Count how many Dax threads in the last month that he's started and that I've responded to.

I'll be waiting.

On the edge of my seat.

It really doesn't matter fellow K-Stater...

OMG U Suck.

[kstate16]

GB you DO reply to everything he posts.

Count how many Dax threads in the last month that he's started and that I've responded to.

I'll be waiting.

On the edge of my seat.

why'd you go to kstate? o ya, cuz it's better.

[Norm93]

Conference tickets will push you all the way out to the 15-20 yard line.  Still lower level though.  For Iowa State you can buy 4 tickets for $99 too cat fans.

   

A family of four can buy ku season football tickets for $400 ($57/game).

[BigJ]

Oh, just a little reminder.  You may be bragging about ku athletics cash flow, but right now ku athletics is up to its eyeballs in debt.  Still paying off the bonds on the Memorial Stadium renovation from 10 years ago, you need to pay back on a no interest loan,  you guys borrowed $4 million from the ku endowment to finish the Anderson Strength Center, and now you just issued another $30 million in bonds (and you're seriously bragging about having $4 million PLEDGED to help pay that down??).   It's no wonder Lew Perkins has to steal $3 million dollars a year from the students on top of making them pay for student season tickets.   You had better hope the "cash" keeps coming in (and it's not Kivisto dollars) because Lew is piling up debt right and left.

Money is borrowed by the schools rather than the AD.  Bonds are issued by the University for Athletic related projects.  It would be nice to think that ku is up to its eyes in debt, but that is just not the case.  In fact KSU has more debt for its size than ku.  Don't believe me?  Check the financial statements.

Hell, the kuAD holds enough money in investment accounts to payoff the debt you have listed, it just gets a better return on that then it pays on interest for the bonds.  It is all right there in publicly avaliable numbers.

Tangible Net Worth
ku:  $835,249,780
KSU:$377,281,107

Effective Working Capital (Current Assets-Current Liabilities)
ku:  $211,773,098
KSU:$70,997,789

Quick Ratio (Liquid Assets/Current Liabilities)
ku:  2.24
KSU:1.77

Debt/Worth Ratio
ku:  .5
KSU:.66

Borrowed Funds/Tangible Net Worth
ku:  .31
KSU:.44

Cash on Hand
ku:  $175,016,464
KSU:$107,982,648

Investment Accounts (Non-Endowment)
ku:  $193,866,439 (Including $56,692,871 for the kuAD)
KSU:$32,632,440

Total Debt:
ku:  $262,055,275
KSU:$164,308,053

Debt/Liquid Assets (Cash and Securities)
KSU:  1.17
ku:    .71


So while it is true that ku has more debt it also has vastly more assets than does KSU.  It has over twice the net worth, more than twice the current assets of KSU, twice the fixed assets, nearly 3 times the liquid assets, is less debt leveraged and has liquid current assets 30% in excess of its total outstanding debt.

And this does not even get into the endowments for the two schools where ku has $1.23 Billion and KSU checks in at $346 Million, ku being three and a half times larger.

The truth is that ku's AD having a smaller budget than KSU was an abberation of incompetent management that has been corrected not, as you want to believe, the product of irresponsible spending by either the AD or the University.

[sonofdaxjones]

You're pulling these numbers from the Endowment.

The Endowment has NOTHING to do with athletics.

Both ku and K-State athletics are separate corporations from the respective Endowments, the Regents would not approve the sale of the bonds through the Kansas Development Finance Authority for use by athletic departments unless they were assured that the athletic departments were paying the debt.  It doesn't matter that ku hides this stuff over in the ku endowment office, ku athletics is still on the hook to service the debt otherwise the Regents would have never approved the sale. 

You're mixing almost two completely different things.

The kuAd doesn't have $835 million in Tangible net worth. 

Oh, the the KSU Foundation now has total assets approaching $500 million. 

[sonofdaxjones]

From the Regents Meeting 6/12-6/13:
AMENDMENT OF PROGRAM STATEMENT FOR ALLEN FIELDHOUSE
IMPROVEMENTS AND AUTHORIZATION FOR KANSAS ATHLETICS INCORPORATED
TO ISSUE BONDS FOR THE PROJECT
Regent Downey-Schmidt moved, with the second of Regent Boettcher, that the Board approve
the Program Statement for Allen Fieldhouse improvements and authorize Kansas Athletics
Incorporated to issue bonds for the project. The motion carried.

[BigJ]

You're pulling these numbers from the Endowment.

Nope, these are the operating numbers for the two Universities.  The Endowments are seperate.

Both ku and K-State athletics are separate corporations from the respective Endowments, the Regents would not approve the sale of the bonds through the Kansas Development Finance Authority for use by athletic departments unless they were assured that the athletic departments were paying the debt.  It doesn't matter that ku hides this stuff over in the ku endowment office, ku athletics is still on the hook to service the debt otherwise the Regents would have never approved the sale.  

While true we are not talking about the endowments, we are talking about the University operating budgets and their associated assets.  It is not being hidden in the endowment office.  It is right there as part of the accounting for the whole university, kuAD included because these are the reports for the state office.  It is plainly visibile in the report on page 30 and is reflected in all of the reports.

The kuAd doesn't have $835 million in Tangible net worth.  

Nope, but the University does and that is seperate from the endowment you are the one confusing two things here.

AD debt, revenue and expenses has its own line item in each schools financials and the debt is held by the schools, not the AD.  The kuAD has more money in investment accounts than KSU has as a university  and substantially more money than the Athletic Department currently has bonded out, even when you account for the $30 million in new bonds.  The decision to service the way it is is made because the bonds are fixed rate and the investment returns are greater than the interest expense.

You characterization of the kuAD as, up to its eyeballs in debt, is your typically uniformed pile of nonsense.  The kuAD is more than able to service its debt and could pay it in full tomorrow by liqudating its investment holdings if it decided to do so and that is not me making things up, that is the reality on the state audited financial statements.

Overall ku has more assets, more money, is less leveraged against its assets and has far greater flexibility due to its high amount of liquid assets when compared to KSU as a whole.  It has access to cheaper money through a less risky bond rating than KSU has.

You can whine and cry and evade all you want, but the fact is you simply had no clue what you were talking about.

[sonofdaxjones]

There is simply no way the Regents would ever allow any institutional asset tied directly to their oversight to be used to back, finance or service the debt of an athletic department of the respective schools.  Please provide a link to these financial sheets.

I'm no accountant, but it's little hard to believe that say the Jardine Apartments now with a replacement value of over $90 million would account for nearly 1/3 of K-State's Tangible assets, and a school that has a total operating budget for FY 2009 of nearly $750 million has half that amount in tangible assets.

While it's true athletic department finances get put into the overall university financial spreadsheets.   The Regents won't allow the sale of bonds for use by athletics, unless the athletic department is servicing the debt.   

You're mixing up way to much stuff here.

[EliteHawk]

You're pulling these numbers from the Endowment.

Nope, these are the operating numbers for the two Universities.  The Endowments are seperate.

Both ku and K-State athletics are separate corporations from the respective Endowments, the Regents would not approve the sale of the bonds through the Kansas Development Finance Authority for use by athletic departments unless they were assured that the athletic departments were paying the debt.  It doesn't matter that ku hides this stuff over in the ku endowment office, ku athletics is still on the hook to service the debt otherwise the Regents would have never approved the sale.  

While true we are not talking about the endowments, we are talking about the University operating budgets and their associated assets.  It is not being hidden in the endowment office.  It is right there as part of the accounting for the whole university, kuAD included because these are the reports for the state office.  It is plainly visibile in the report on page 30 and is reflected in all of the reports.

The kuAd doesn't have $835 million in Tangible net worth.  

Nope, but the University does and that is seperate from the endowment you are the one confusing two things here.

AD debt, revenue and expenses has its own line item in each schools financials and the debt is held by the schools, not the AD.  The kuAD has more money in investment accounts than KSU has as a university  and substantially more money than the Athletic Department currently has bonded out, even when you account for the $30 million in new bonds.  The decision to service the way it is is made because the bonds are fixed rate and the investment returns are greater than the interest expense.

You characterization of the kuAD as, up to its eyeballs in debt, is your typically uniformed pile of nonsense.  The kuAD is more than able to service its debt and could pay it in full tomorrow by liqudating its investment holdings if it decided to do so and that is not me making things up, that is the reality on the state audited financial statements.

Overall ku has more assets, more money, is less leveraged against its assets and has far greater flexibility due to its high amount of liquid assets when compared to KSU as a whole.  It has access to cheaper money through a less risky bond rating than KSU has.

You can whine and cry and evade all you want, but the fact is you simply had no clue what you were talking about.

BigJ just took 'Pad behind the woodshed and beat him so badly that his mother felt it.


 

[BigJ]

There is simply no way the Regents would ever allow any institutional asset tied directly to their oversight to be used to back, finance or service the debt of an athletic department of the respective schools.  Please provide a link to these financial sheets.

You're mixing up way to much stuff here.

I am mixing up way too much stuff?  You don't even know the difference between an endowment and an operating budget.

It is right there, in between a $3 Million bond for the Medical Center Parking Garage and a $44 million bond for the University of Kansas Center for Research, Inc on the Annual Financial Report 2007, signed off on by the Boad of Regents as well as the executive officers of the University.  All of a universities parts, and the kuAD is part of the University of Kansas just like ku Center for Research, Inc and other such affiliated entites.

Also revenue bonds are not backed by assets Dax.  Of course the AD is servicing the debt Dax but the bond holders know that too and would not buy them if they did not think they were going to get paid.  They also know that the University of Kansas has a large amount of unrestricted, liquid assets backing the AD and that the AD has a large amount of liquid assets in and of itself.  So not only is there sufficient revenue but in the event of a revenue pinch there is strong liquidity backing it up, ensuring I get paid.

KSU does not have that level of liquidity, either at the university level or in its AD.

Them be the facts captain.

[sonofdaxjones]

I absolutely know the difference between and endowment and athletic budget and a school budget (not to Big J, you never pointed out where you got your numbers in your original post).

I also understand that revenue bonds are not always backed by assets.

You don't seem to get it that the athletic department has to service all of its debt.  Go read all the regents minutes . . . the kuad is responsible for all debt service for debt that was issued for the kuad.   Say the kuad were to default, they just can't go over and grab money out of ku's cash on hand to to make it right. 

Plus, please provide a link to these financials you keep referencing.  (2nd request).

According to K-State's Office of the Budget, KSU has an operating budget of $731 million dollars for FY 2009.  That's why I can't figure out where you're getting any of your numbers from.




 

[BigJ]

I also understand that revenue bonds are not always backed by assets

By definition a revenue bond is never backed by an asset.

You don't seem to get it that the athletic department has to service all of its debt.

I fully get it.  What you don't seem to get is that the kuAD has an investment account valued north of $56 million.  They can draw that money at any time to service whatever needs they want and against a debt load of around $40 million after the new bond issue that is more than enough to pay off the debt at any point.

The point is that not only is the kuAD plenty healthy, but University of Kansas is much better off in the finance department than KSU.  On every level, by every measure.  And it is not close.

http://www.comptroller.ku.edu/financial_reporting_services/annual_financial_report/

http://www.k-state.edu/controller/fri/reports.htm

[sonofdaxjones]

Plus, you know and I know that in regards to "revenue bonds" and athletic departments, it's usually always the creation of an asset that will provide the revenue to service the bond.   Albeit for the first time both KSU and ku will issue bonds for facilities that do not create revenue (directly).

[sonofdaxjones]

Say ah Big J . . . is ku counting kuMC in those financial s??

Sure looks like it to me, patient care revenues, patient care expenses etc. etc.

It appears that ku is counting all the assets and liabilities of the kumc in its financials, yet the Regents treats kumc as a seperate funding entity entirely.

Weed out all the kumc stuff and ku-l's financial's wouldn't look all that much different that K-State's.

Terrible comparison . . . try again.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I also understand that revenue bonds are not always backed by assets

By definition a revenue bond is never backed by an asset.

You don't seem to get it that the athletic department has to service all of its debt.

I fully get it.  What you don't seem to get is that the kuAD has an investment account valued north of $56 million.  They can draw that money at any time to service whatever needs they want and against a debt load of around $40 million after the new bond issue that is more than enough to pay off the debt at any point.

The point is that not only is the kuAD plenty healthy, but University of Kansas is much better off in the finance department than KSU.  On every level, by every measure.  And it is not close.

http://www.comptroller.ku.edu/financial_reporting_services/annual_financial_report/

http://www.k-state.edu/controller/fri/reports.htm

Thanks for the links. 

Again, it's apples to oranges.  kuMC and ku law are throwing everything off.  Take that stuff out (which may be impossible to figure out) and then we're ready to break this thing down. 

I don't see athletics and a few other categories included in KSU's financials.  I may be mistaken, but I believe that all of the athletics and student union related stuff rolls up under separate entities. 

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Say ah Big J . . . is ku counting kuMC in those financial s??

Sure looks like it to me, patient care revenues, patient care expenses etc. etc.

It appears that ku is counting all the assets and liabilities of the kumc in its financials, yet the Regents treats kumc as a seperate funding entity entirely.

Weed out all the kumc stuff and ku-l's financial's wouldn't look all that much different that K-State's.

Terrible comparison . . . try again.

ku Med is totally included in there.  Wow.  That's HUGE!  No wonder.

[DrJamesANaismith]

Yes . . . you've been called out.   

  Not going to well, huh pad?

[sonofdaxjones]

Lets review.

ku's financials includes kumc, which the Regents treats as a completely separate funding body with a totally different budget and separate capital improvements budget. 

K-State's financials do not roll K-State athletic financials into it, nor does it appear it includes the K-State union (which has its own governance).

Nice try J.

Actually it's going real well Doc . . . but you're too much of a dumbass to figure that out.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Lets review.

ku's financials includes kumc, which the Regents treats as a completely separate funding body with a totally different budget and separate capital improvements budget. 

K-State's financials do not roll K-State athletic financials into it, nor does it appear it includes the K-State union (which has its own governance).

Nice try J.

I give Big J credit.  He's not as much of a dummy as I thought.  I still don't like him, but I have respect for him. 

[sonofdaxjones]

Sure, he can read a balance sheet . . . good for him.

But he's not real good at the "apples and oranges" thing.

Nice solid effort by Big J, but a failure none the less.

[BigJ]

Lets review.

ku's financials includes kumc, which the Regents treats as a completely separate funding body with a totally different budget and separate capital improvements budget. 

K-State's financials do not roll K-State athletic financials into it, nor does it appear it includes the K-State union (which has its own governance).

Nice try J.

Actually it's going real well Doc . . . but you're too much of a dumbass to figure that out.

KSU Athletics are a department of the University, they are in there they just don't get their own line item.  At ku the AD is its own company affiliated with the University.  This is clear if you read all the footnotes of the various documents.

Kansas University is considered as a system.  There are breakouts of the funds held by each later in the document if you wish to read further.

You were the one that claimed the kuAD was on the verge of bankruptcy and had way too much debt.  I think we have put that one to bed.