Date: 18/08/25 - 12:55 PM   48060 Topics and 694399 Posts

Author Topic: Gone are the days of the old Wildcat offense  (Read 6089 times)

July 24, 2006, 07:55:43 PM
Reply #30

chum1

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I don't understand what people mean with the damn fiesta curtain thingy.  I never have.


July 24, 2006, 08:04:02 PM
Reply #31

chum1

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July 24, 2006, 08:19:43 PM
Reply #32

pissclams

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That was a fun offense.
It was a blast to watch.
Compare the types of players Prince is recruiting to what we had in the program then...pretty similar.


Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

New warning: Don't get in a fight with someone who doesn't even need to bother to buy ink.

July 24, 2006, 10:20:59 PM
Reply #33

fatty fat fat

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Do you guys honestly think Prince will put out a team better than the 2002 or 2003 squads? I mean, one of his team may ACCOMPLISH more (Luckily win the CCG, get a easy BCS opponent..win) but those were both top 10/5 squads that were a few pieces away from a NC appearance.
It is a tragedy because now, we have at least an extra month without Cat football until next year. I hate wasting my life away but I can hardly wait until next year.

July 24, 2006, 10:47:18 PM
Reply #34

mjrod

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Do you guys honestly think Prince will put out a team better than the 2002 or 2003 squads? I mean, one of his team may ACCOMPLISH more (Luckily win the CCG, get a easy BCS opponent..win) but those were both top 10/5 squads that were a few pieces away from a NC appearance.

Hard to tell. The 2002 and 2003 teams were probably the best units in the nation. Had Ell not got injured, it would be back to back NC's.

July 25, 2006, 12:19:43 AM
Reply #35

chum1

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Do you guys honestly think Prince will put out a team better than the 2002 or 2003 squads?

No, but that would be the case regardless of the offensive scheme.

those were both top 10/5 squads that were a few pieces away from a NC appearance.
Had Ell not got injured, it would be back to back NC's.

I must be lost after all.  If you have more than one loss, you didn't just miss out on the BCS championship game.  There aren't ten teams that just missed being in the championship game.




July 25, 2006, 12:34:25 AM
Reply #36

mjrod

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Do you guys honestly think Prince will put out a team better than the 2002 or 2003 squads?

No, but that would be the case regardless of the offensive scheme.

those were both top 10/5 squads that were a few pieces away from a NC appearance.
Had Ell not got injured, it would be back to back NC's.

I must be lost after all.  If you have more than one loss, you didn't just miss out on the BCS championship game.  There aren't ten teams that just missed being in the championship game.





Of course, the losses kept them out, but in both years, when KSU had losses, Ell was out or just coming back off injury.. and let's not forget that the losses were by less than 14 points COMBINED  each year.

July 25, 2006, 12:35:33 AM
Reply #37

fatty fat fat

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I don't get the wabash station reference. At, at all.

:numb:
It is a tragedy because now, we have at least an extra month without Cat football until next year. I hate wasting my life away but I can hardly wait until next year.

July 25, 2006, 06:58:18 AM
Reply #38

chum1

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Of course, the losses kept them out, but in both years, when KSU had losses, Ell was out or just coming back off injury.. and let's not forget that the losses were by less than 14 points COMBINED each year.

In 2002 Miami and Ohio State both went undefeated in the regular season.  Even if we had gone undefeated we would still have been behind each in both polls and, consequently, out of the BCS championship game.

Additionally, consider the following:

UGA lost one regular season game by 7 points.
USC lost two regular season games by a combined 10 points.
OU lost two regular season games by a combined 14 points
Iowa lost one regular season game by 5 points.
Texas lost two regular season games by a combined 15 points.

If we’re entitled to say that we just missed out on playing in the national championship game, so are all of these other teams.  They are just as entitled to make excuses for their losses as we are.  It would be totally absurd for a fan of any of the above schools to approach a fan another and say, “our teams just missed meeting in the 2002 BCS championship game.”  There are too many permutations for this to be a worthwhile assessment.  The claim in question, however, entails that this would not be absurd at all.

You can do the same for 2003, but don’t forget to include all of the teams with three regular season losses as well.

I don't get the wabash station reference. At, at all.

Wabash = absurd, convoluted theories + a low tolerance for dissension


July 25, 2006, 08:17:35 AM
Reply #39

WILDCAT NATION

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I can't wait to hear what the Snyder offense haters have to say when we ring up 3 on the board like Virginia did last year.


July 25, 2006, 09:43:28 AM
Reply #40

pissclams

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Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

New warning: Don't get in a fight with someone who doesn't even need to bother to buy ink.

July 25, 2006, 09:58:06 AM
Reply #41

PoetWarrior

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Do you guys honestly think Prince will put out a team better than the 2002 or 2003 squads? I mean, one of his team may ACCOMPLISH more (Luckily win the CCG, get a easy BCS opponent..win) but those were both top 10/5 squads that were a few pieces away from a NC appearance.

True and I am the biggest Ell Roberson fan alive and I don't know if we'll ever have a player quite of his caliber, but I don't think it is out of the realm of possibilities that we are good (great) under Prince immediately.

I would like to hope Prince will pull a Stoops and win the National Title in his second year.

July 25, 2006, 10:01:52 AM
Reply #42

michigancat

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I can't wait to hear what the Snyder offense haters have to say when we ring up 3 on the board like Virginia did last year.



When's the last time KSU's been shut out?

July 25, 2006, 10:04:15 AM
Reply #43

Stillwater Cat

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July 25, 2006, 10:06:20 AM
Reply #44

Stillwater Cat

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  The Last Time Kansas State…
…played in a bowl game…2003 (Fiesta Bowl vs. Ohio State)
…missed a bowl game…2005
…pitched a shutout…2003 (Iowa State)
…was shutout…1996 (Colorado)
…scored 50 points…2005 (North Texas)             
…went undefeated…never
…won a conference title…2003 (Big 12)
…had a 3,000-yard passer…never
…had a 1,000-yard rusher…2004 (Darren Sproles)
…had a 1,000-yard receiver…2003 (James Terry)
…had a first-round draft choice…2003 (CB Terence Newman)


via www.collegefootballnews.com

July 25, 2006, 10:14:14 AM
Reply #45

michigancat

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July 25, 2006, 10:47:47 AM
Reply #46

WILDCAT NATION

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It seems like at some point last season, I heard that it had been a LONG time since KSU had even scored less than 20 in a game...


July 25, 2006, 11:02:00 AM
Reply #47

michigancat

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I remember that KSU and USC (?) were the only two teams to score at least 20 in every game in 2004.

We went from the UT game in 2002 to the ku game in 2005 without scoring fewer than 20.

July 25, 2006, 12:34:48 PM
Reply #48

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July 25, 2006, 12:37:28 PM
Reply #49

PoetWarrior

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That is impressive.

And with that we should recheck the first post of this thread.


July 25, 2006, 12:46:18 PM
Reply #50

Saulbadguy

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Did we really utilize the "option" offense that much in 2004/2005?

July 25, 2006, 12:55:42 PM
Reply #51

chum1

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And with that we should recheck the first post of this thread.

I checked.  My preference is still the same.  I'm sure yours is, too.  The difference is that I'm not confusing an offense's success with it's scheme.  I always thought that success was determined more by things like bigger, stronger, faster players and good coaching.  If there really was such a close relationship between scheme and success, wouldn't everyone run the same offense?


July 25, 2006, 01:54:40 PM
Reply #52

mjrod

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And with that we should recheck the first post of this thread.

I checked.  My preference is still the same.  I'm sure yours is, too.  The difference is that I'm not confusing an offense's success with it's scheme.  I always thought that success was determined more by things like bigger, stronger, faster players and good coaching.  If there really was such a close relationship between scheme and success, wouldn't everyone run the same offense?

That's the point.  The people in the system is what made it work.  Snyder's offense required he get the right people in it to work effectively, although he created this option based system when Bishop came around.   The Single Wing offense Snyder pretty much wrote the book on getting the right players for and making it work.

July 25, 2006, 03:40:28 PM
Reply #53

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i remember this game...wasn't the weather in cu really bad that night?  i think cu's only td was in spec teams or from a turnover.  neither team could score.

i think there was a long streak before this one too...if it weren't for this game, we'd have the longest non-shutout streak in the nation (since @wash in 1991?)?

July 25, 2006, 03:57:34 PM
Reply #54

FBWillie

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i remember this game...wasn't the weather in cu really bad that night?  i think cu's only td was in spec teams or from a turnover.  neither team could score.

i think there was a long streak before this one too...if it weren't for this game, we'd have the longest non-shutout streak in the nation (since @wash in 1991?)?

'96 Colorado was 0 to 12.  Could've been all field goals... who knows. 
The time before that was again against colorado in 91 score: 0 to 10; then '89 arizona state 0-31; then '87 colorado again 0-41; '86 Northern Iowa 0-17 AND Nebraska in the same year 0-38;  Colorado again in '85 0-30.   those are all the shutouts I could find in the past 20 years.
The comments posted above do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of FBWillie

July 25, 2006, 09:37:43 PM
Reply #55

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96 CU, -12 windchill at KO.  It was a very cold night and the field was a sheet of ice until after the half.  That was my only trip to Boulder.

The offensive discussion is nice, but offense has been far from our problem in the last two years, though certainly it wasn't great.  We've just had mediocre teams the last couple years; more so IMHO subpar special teams that didn't create points/field position on a regular basis combined with a defense that was bend but not break that broke too often.  We've been inconsistent at best the past two season for various reasons; subpar athletes/play by both lines, subpar recruiting leading to lack of depth/overall team speed (which really affects special teams), and what appeared to be a coaching staff in need of some major changes. 

That said, I have no idea what the result of the next couple of years will be.  My initial reaction is that I like Prince but the man hasn't coached a game yet.  My tendancy is to believe that at best we may be the next Texas Tech (not necessarily in terms of offense, but a consistent lower tier bowl team with the occasional Cotton Bowl appearance) of the Big 12 and won't likely be a national force like we were in the late 90s early 00s, but I could be wrong.

As far as Prince's offense goes, I'll wait and see.  Yes, it will be very different, but I guarantee that if he can average 25 points a game over time that the nature of the offense won't matter.  Snyder's offense was brilliant over the course of time, and his switch too a focus on QB running game with a vertical passing game combined with some power run was very tough to defend.  However, Prince had to put his own stamp on the program and he's going to run what he knows, and with his experience with several NFL coaches plus a former NFL coach in Grogh I'm not surprise it will look more like an offense you would see on Sundays. 

I do not think most teams will go to QB run games b/c its tough to find the players to run it, and most coaches know that UT's success with it was not something you can simply reproduce b/c they got that once in 15-20 year player in Vince Young that made winning a NC running half a dozen plays out of 1 or 2 formations a reality.  Michael Bishop was the same-type player for us, we just fell short of what UT/Young was able to do.

July 25, 2006, 09:44:40 PM
Reply #56

pissclams

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I went to that 1996 CU game too, it was cold as hell in Boulder that night.
If I remember correctly, they had to plow the field at halftime.

I specifically remember that night for a different reason though, it was the night I discovered New Belgium's Sunshine Wheat at a bar somewhere in Boulder where they sold 32oz mugs of it for $5.


Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

New warning: Don't get in a fight with someone who doesn't even need to bother to buy ink.