Any indications that Prince will be better than mediocre?

[catzacker]

There was no indication we were going to be anything but mediocre until 1997.....so it seems pretty comical this question would even be asked.

So 4 straight 9 win seasons (with only 11 game schedules) is mediocre? You've got to be kidding me. I'd kill for 4 straight 9 win seasons.

Did we ever beat anybody worth a crap in those 4 years?  We won the games we were supposed to win.  We beat some teams that were even with us.  We never beat a team better than us.  It was the Snyder plan executed to perfection.  We didn't truly become great until '97.  The point is there's no indication that we're worse off than when Snyder took over and we didn't truly become great until '97.....

Who gives a damn if we didnt' beat a team that was better than us if we won all/most of the games that we should have.  If you win 9 or 10 games and they are the ones where the team is as good or worse than you, then guess what...that means your a good team.  Who gives a damn about "great" right now?  I'll trade the UT win for 2 wins against ISU and OSU.  

[fatty fat fat]

There was no indication we were going to be anything but mediocre until 1997.....so it seems pretty comical this question would even be asked.

So 4 straight 9 win seasons (with only 11 game schedules) is mediocre? You've got to be kidding me. I'd kill for 4 straight 9 win seasons.

Did we ever beat anybody worth a crap in those 4 years?  We won the games we were supposed to win.  We beat some teams that were even with us.  We never beat a team better than us.  It was the Snyder plan executed to perfection.  We didn't truly become great until '97.  The point is there's no indication that we're worse off than when Snyder took over and we didn't truly become great until '97.....

qft.

Here are the wins over conference teams with winning records:

93:  9-3 OU
94:  6-5 ku
95:  10-2 ku
96:  7-5 TT

That's it.

Honestly, do you realize that most teams are like that. Seriously...look at ku. They are 9-0, but how many wins over teams with a winning conference record?

0.

Texas?

0.

Good teams beat the bad teams, and go even with the equal teams. It's hilarious that people just assume if you are a top 10 team, you should have a .500 record vs other top 10 teams.

[michigancat]

There was no indication we were going to be anything but mediocre until 1997.....so it seems pretty comical this question would even be asked.

So 4 straight 9 win seasons (with only 11 game schedules) is mediocre? You've got to be kidding me. I'd kill for 4 straight 9 win seasons.

Did we ever beat anybody worth a crap in those 4 years?  We won the games we were supposed to win.  We beat some teams that were even with us.  We never beat a team better than us.  It was the Snyder plan executed to perfection.  We didn't truly become great until '97.  The point is there's no indication that we're worse off than when Snyder took over and we didn't truly become great until '97.....

qft.

Here are the wins over conference teams with winning records:

93:  9-3 OU
94:  6-5 ku
95:  10-2 ku
96:  7-5 TT

That's it.

Honestly, do you realize that most teams are like that. Seriously...look at ku. They are 9-0, but how many wins over teams with a winning conference record?

0.

Texas?

0.

Good teams beat the bad teams, and go even with the equal teams. It's hilarious that people just assume if you are a top 10 team, you should have a .500 record vs other top 10 teams.

OSU has a winning conference record.

I see your point, but the win over UT is better than any win in that time period.  The CU win could be better than all but OU and ku.

The loss to ISU will be KSU's only loss to a team with a losing record.

[Saulbadguy]

&@#%ing Snyder lost to fracking Marshall at home. 

[dlew12]

Out of curiosity, what do you people expect?  A divisional title every year?  BCS games every year? 

Listen folks, the DoD is over.  For everyone.

I expect a bowl game every year and to win the division once every 4 or 5 years.  Anything more is gravy.  Anything less is really unnacceptable.

As long as K-state remains "pretty good" and gives me something to look forward to in the fall every year, I'm okay with it.

[michigancat]

Out of curiosity, what do you people expect?  A divisional title every year?  BCS games every year? 

Listen folks, the DoD is over.  For everyone.

I expect a bowl game every year and to win the division once every 4 or 5 years.  Anything more is gravy.  Anything less is really unnacceptable.

As long as K-state remains "pretty good" and gives me something to look forward to in the fall every year, I'm okay with it.

(dlew is not my sock, BTW.)

[kougar24]

There was no indication we were going to be anything but mediocre until 1997.....so it seems pretty comical this question would even be asked.

A New Year's Day bowl is mediocre? Talk about comical.

[Wildcat Jack]

The original question was is there an indication Prince will be better than mediocre....I'm simply trying to point out, for those that don't have the benefit of a lot of perspective, that there weren't a helluva lot of indications to the contrary in the first 6-7 years of Snyder. 

We were a better than average football team playing cup cakes and in a weak-ass conference.  Yeah we made the Cotton Bowl one year and got it handed to us by frickin' BYU. 

It's crazy to suggest that there haven't been as many good signs of success in the 14 game Prince career as in the first 60 or so of Snyder.

[kougar24]

The original question was is there an indication Prince will be better than mediocre....I'm simply trying to point out, for those that don't have the benefit of a lot of perspective, that there weren't a helluva lot of indications to the contrary in the first 6-7 years of Snyder. 

We were a better than average football team playing cup cakes and in a weak-ass conference.  Yeah we made the Cotton Bowl one year and got it handed to us by frickin' BYU. 

It's crazy to suggest that there haven't been as many good signs of success in the 14 game Prince career as in the first 60 or so of Snyder.

Compare the overall program Snyder inherited (I'm talking recruits, facilities, fanbase, all of it) to what Prince inherited, and get back to me so I can laugh at you some more.

[cireksu]

Prince has shown that we are pretty awesome when we don't turn the ball over.

[Shout it out loud]

any indication the fat man would make it to mediocre? give it some time

[Keys1313]

I'm cool with sustained mediocrity in football.
Just so there's no sh*tty 3-9 type seasons.

If we go bowling every year (7-5, 8-4 type regular seasons), with a 9 or 10 win B12 title game every couple of years, I'll be fine also.  Especially if we keep having exciting games at home (OSU, LOU, Tx last year, COL this year, etc).

The B12 has too much parity to expect 10 and 11 win seasons on a regular basis like back in the day.

[Wildcat Jack]

The original question was is there an indication Prince will be better than mediocre....I'm simply trying to point out, for those that don't have the benefit of a lot of perspective, that there weren't a helluva lot of indications to the contrary in the first 6-7 years of Snyder. 

We were a better than average football team playing cup cakes and in a weak-ass conference.  Yeah we made the Cotton Bowl one year and got it handed to us by frickin' BYU. 

It's crazy to suggest that there haven't been as many good signs of success in the 14 game Prince career as in the first 60 or so of Snyder.

Compare the overall program Snyder inherited (I'm talking recruits, facilities, fanbase, all of it) to what Prince inherited, and get back to me so I can laugh at you some more.

Koug,
Many ways to compare it.  If you compare it to what KSU had...there isn't any.  If you compare it to the rest of the college football world....I'd have to say that others have progressed farther than we have in some of those areas.

Each had advantages that others haven't....it's not a reach to suggest that Snyder's early years didn't show any different signs than Prince's early years.

Your tone suggests I'm trying to downplay Snyder's accomplishments, I'm not....I just think it's too early to bury Prince.

[enjoytheNeujahr]

This is the stupidest thread i have seen in ages.  I mean even the posts that are trying to be sensible are ridiculous.

This is a team that is in solid contention for a second straight bowl appearance.  Coming off two consecutive non-bowl cellar dwelling seasons.  A year ago I listened to every talking head proclaim us as last place finishers. 

We are currently starting a true soph qb who is showing definite signs of growth.  A defense who, while suffering injury issues, is implementing a new scheme under a first year d-coordinator.  For fans to have any expectations beyond attaining bowl status are somewhat unrealistic. 

In fact I am in favor of renegotiating Prince's deal to place a buyout on his final three years.  People not emotionally attached with what is happening here are impressed with his ability and direction.  Plus to be fair to any coach and system your really need to give him at least 4-5 years.  Look at Mangino

[cireksu]

Did we have a preseason prediction thread here?  someone needs to bump that.

[ksuno1stunner]

If this is as bad as it gets then I'm ok, obviously we could have done better this season.

[BMWJhawk]

If Prince doesn't start focusing on some interior lineman for boths sides of the ball, K-State is going to be mediocre for the rest of his career.

[Bookcat]

he hasn't even finished his second season and we act as if Callahan is leading us into the grave.

I say give Prince a chance to build a defense and offensive line around Freeman and then evaluate where we are in the Big 12 pecking order after Freeman's senior year 2010.*


*unless JF goes pro

[Newbie]

If not, why not start thinking about replacing him?  If he doesn't become better than mediocre, did we make a mistake by taking a chance on someone with so little experience?

It would be the dumbest thing in the world to hire a guy with little experience then train him on the job for two years...
     

^^^This is how I see it.  Still wish the AD had stepped up.

By the way, four straight 9 win+ seasons, four top 20 finishes, one #6 final ranking, and one New Years Day Bowl is way above mediocre.  Particularly given the starting point: KSU won 2.13 games per year in the 8 season before Snyder arrived.  There is quite simply no way to argue Snyder's teams were mediocre until 1997.

[Newbie]

Each had advantages that others haven't....it's not a reach to suggest that Snyder's early years didn't show any different signs than Prince's early years.

I actually think we need to keep Prince for 2-3 more years at least, but I just can't let some of this go...

In Snyder's first season he won 1 more game than the team had posted in the year before he arrived (there being a total of 0 wins in the two years before Snyder).  In year two he was +5 wins over his starting point.  In year three he was +7 wins over his starting point.  (The most wins in almost 40 years for KSU.)

In Prince's first season he won 2 more games than the team posted the year before (in a 12-game season).  In year two, he will need to win 10 games to match Snyder's progression (which can't happen).  Next year, he needs to win 12 games to match Snyder's progression.

Snyder was already obviously a tremendous coach in his third season to those of us watching at the time.   

[The Whale]

Time to QFT myself:

Even if you think Ron's mediocre, you still have to give at least 4, probably 5 years.  Firing coaches after 2 or 3 years (unless they are ungodly horrible) isn't really a good practice. 

I hope KSU fans are bracing for next year.  It doesn't look all that promising.  I think the  schedule is more difficult than this year (although that still won't keep me from melting down).

It's amazing how much this board is melting down now that catzacker is one of the more positive / let's see Prince through posters.

People got far too giddy after the Texas win -- this team is the same as it was at the start of the season, a 6-7 win team with a tough schedule.

Those of us who predicted a low number of wins based on personnel and schedule are still "emotionally neutral".  While those who swore up and down that this was a 9+ win team are looking like the Husker fans who have their self esteem determined by how a football team does