Witherspoon

[michigancat]

K-State still in hunt for Witherspoon

Wes Witherspoon has been busy.

Oklahoma's Jeff Capel was in the family's Georgia living room Monday night. Kansas' Bill Self is scheduled for a visit Thursday.

Last weekend, Witherspoon, regarded as Rivals' No. 57 basketball prospect in the Class of 2008, was on an official visit in Baton Rouge for LSU football's rout of Virginia Tech. There, he encountered Shaquille O'Neal, who was his usual jovial self.

"He got to meet to the 'Big Fella,' who is real personable," said Will Witherspoon, Wesley's father. "But so is Wesley."

When he returned home from LSU, there was no time to rest. Kansas State coach Frank Martin and assistant head coach Dalonte Hill wanted to be the first ones to greet the 6-foot-7 swingman from Lilburn (Ga.) Berkmar High during the fall open period. The rapport Martin and Hill have built with the Witherspoons can't be denied.

But will it matter?

"The biggest thing is, above everything else, he loves his brother (Wynton, a George Washington forward)," Will Witherspoon said. "He wants to see the type of year his brother is going to have, but Wynton has discouraged that.... So, because of that, Wesley is taking the time to speak with all of these coaches."

And then there's the buzz factor. While there is a lot of excitement building about what the Wildcats might accomplish this season, there are certain schools where that type of excitement is an annual norm.

Will Witherspoon has warned his son about the fickle nature of the recruiting business --"Just because they're interested doesn't mean that they're interested," he said -- but sometimes being a teenager wins out.

Case in point, North Carolina's short-lived flirtation with Witherspoon. The Tar Heels entered the picture late, got Witherspoon excited, and then pulled out.

Now, Kansas is involved, although Will Witherspoon says the Jayhawks "have been talking to (Wesley) a lot." The father fears the same thing that happened with UNC is happening again.

"It matters where you are with each program," he said. "I tell him that, and he's looking at me with his eyes wide open, as if he hears me. But when he goes around with his friends, he wants to be able to throw out there, 'UNC is talking to me, Kansas is interested in me.' I mean, ku is what? A preseason top 5? It's hard to ignore one of the top programs in the country."

Martin and Hill are doing their best, though.

"We've gotten real comfortable with Frank and Dalonte," Will Witherspoon said.

They're winning the household battle, but the venue is going to change in the coming weeks. The father has made it clear how K-State fares this year is going to play a major role in deciding which school his son chooses during the late signing period.

And the fact that Michael Beasley and Bill Walker might not be around once (or if) Witherspoon arrives on campus won't matter. But the fact that Beasley followed Hill to K-State does.

"That's one of the things that impressed me," Will Witherspoon said. "That must mean that Dalonte is really trustworthy.... Man, it's hard to trust guys out here. So many will tell you what they think you want to hear. I think Dalonte is trustworthy, and that plays an important role (for us).

"I'm not moving to Manhattan, but I do want to trust whoever I send Wesley to."

http://www.kansas.com/sports/martin/story/178817.html

Chris Babb keeps looking more and more important.

[catzacker]

Chris Babb keeps looking more and more important.

Why does a small forward's recruiting make a shooting guard's recruitment more important?

[michigancat]

Chris Babb keeps looking more and more important.

Why does a small forward's recruiting make a shooting guard's recruitment more important?

Because there's basically no difference between a SF and a SG, and we need to sign someone for 2008.

[catzacker]

Chris Babb keeps looking more and more important.

Why does a small forward's recruiting make a shooting guard's recruitment more important?

Because there's basically no difference between a SF and a SG, and we need to sign someone for 2008.

Your Babb agenda is running rampant.   

[sys]

ksu's recruiting may be going even worse than ku's.

[yosh]

Enjoy this season...

[KSU4ME]

Why does a small forward's recruiting make a shooting guard's recruitment more important?

You have a very low BBIQ.  Let me help you out.  Here are the fundamental truths about college basketball.

1.  True Point Guards are worthless.  Either guard can be point.  So PG=SG.

2.  The traditional view of the SF is outdated.  Essentially, SF=SG(=PG).

3.  True Centers take too long to develop. Don't waste your time on them in college ball, by the time they're ready, they're gone.  So PF=C.

Bottom line is you're only looking for two skill sets in basketball.  Your SF/SG/PG and PF/C.  If your team consisted of 3 Cartier Martins and 2 Jeremiah Masseys you would pwn the college basketball world (and possibly universe).

This is the model all scary smart coaches espouse.

You may now thank me for increasing your BBIQ by at least 3 orders of magnitude.

[michigancat]

Why does a small forward's recruiting make a shooting guard's recruitment more important?

You have a very low BBIQ.  Let me help you out.  Here are the fundamental truths about college basketball.

1.  True Point Guards are worthless.  Either guard can be point.  So PG=SG.

2.  The traditional view of the SF is outdated.  Essentially, SF=SG(=PG).

3.  True Centers take too long to develop. Don't waste your time on them in college ball, by the time they're ready, they're gone.  So PF=C.

Bottom line is you're only looking for two skill sets in basketball.  Your SF/SG/PG and PF/C.  If your team consisted of 3 Cartier Martins and 2 Jeremiah Masseys you would pwn the college basketball world (and possibly universe).

This is the model all scary smart coaches espouse.

You may now thank me for increasing your BBIQ by at least 3 orders of magnitude.

I actually agree with that 100%, except I would like at least one of the SF/SG/PG's on the floor to have adequate PG skills.  (Clent Stewart: good enough;  Fred Peete:  good enough; Lance Harris:  not good enough).  It'd be great if everyone on the court had decent PG skills.

I'd also like all the smalls to have decent post moves and all the bigs to have a decent jump shot.

[jsstuber]

Why does a small forward's recruiting make a shooting guard's recruitment more important?

You have a very low BBIQ.  Let me help you out.  Here are the fundamental truths about college basketball.

1.  True Point Guards are worthless.  Either guard can be point.  So PG=SG.

2.  The traditional view of the SF is outdated.  Essentially, SF=SG(=PG).

3.  True Centers take too long to develop. Don't waste your time on them in college ball, by the time they're ready, they're gone.  So PF=C.

Bottom line is you're only looking for two skill sets in basketball.  Your SF/SG/PG and PF/C.  If your team consisted of 3 Cartier Martins and 2 Jeremiah Masseys you would pwn the college basketball world (and possibly universe).

This is the model all scary smart coaches espouse.

You may now thank me for increasing your BBIQ by at least 3 orders of magnitude.

I'm gonna have to disagree with those statements.  I think it critical to have a player who can break down a defense.  Having a player who can get to the basket is really important.  3 Cartier's and 2 Masseys would never get that done.

[michigancat]

Why does a small forward's recruiting make a shooting guard's recruitment more important?

You have a very low BBIQ.  Let me help you out.  Here are the fundamental truths about college basketball.

1.  True Point Guards are worthless.  Either guard can be point.  So PG=SG.

2.  The traditional view of the SF is outdated.  Essentially, SF=SG(=PG).

3.  True Centers take too long to develop. Don't waste your time on them in college ball, by the time they're ready, they're gone.  So PF=C.

Bottom line is you're only looking for two skill sets in basketball.  Your SF/SG/PG and PF/C.  If your team consisted of 3 Cartier Martins and 2 Jeremiah Masseys you would pwn the college basketball world (and possibly universe).

This is the model all scary smart coaches espouse.

You may now thank me for increasing your BBIQ by at least 3 orders of magnitude.

I'm gonna have to disagree with those statements.  I think it critical to have a player who can break down a defense.  Having a player who can get to the basket is really important.  3 Cartier's and 2 Masseys would never get that done.

He's mocking me, FWIW. 

p.s.  Gerry McNamara

[KSU4ME]

Why does a small forward's recruiting make a shooting guard's recruitment more important?

You have a very low BBIQ.  Let me help you out.  Here are the fundamental truths about college basketball.

1.  True Point Guards are worthless.  Either guard can be point.  So PG=SG.

2.  The traditional view of the SF is outdated.  Essentially, SF=SG(=PG).

3.  True Centers take too long to develop. Don't waste your time on them in college ball, by the time they're ready, they're gone.  So PF=C.

Bottom line is you're only looking for two skill sets in basketball.  Your SF/SG/PG and PF/C.  If your team consisted of 3 Cartier Martins and 2 Jeremiah Masseys you would pwn the college basketball world (and possibly universe).

This is the model all scary smart coaches espouse.

You may now thank me for increasing your BBIQ by at least 3 orders of magnitude.

I actually agree with that 100%, except I would like at least one of the SF/SG/PG's on the floor to have adequate PG skills.  (Clent Stewart: good enough;  Fred Peete:  good enough; Lance Harris:  not good enough).  It'd be great if everyone on the court had decent PG skills.

I'd also like all the smalls to have decent post moves and all the bigs to have a decent jump shot.

What I look for is the 6'9" C/PF/SF/SG/PG that has lightening quicks with the ball, great vision, smooth jumper and can play with his back to the basket.

There are literally thousands of Magic Johnson's out there (non-HIV of course) that are just being wasted by meat headed coaches that don't fully utilize their talents.

[michigancat]

G-Mac

[catzacker]

Rusty, what team has been assembled (and been successulf) that is close to your dream team line up?  Syracuse? 

[Pete]

Rusty, what team has been assembled (and been successulf) that is close to your dream team line up?  Syracuse? 

I am struggling with Rusty's argument in the case at hand as well....I mean, I get the style he is suggesting, I just don't get it in this case.

'Spoon is 6'8" and we have NO returning post players worth a crap in 2008.  In my book, that make Spoon a desparately needed post player, and not merely a shooting wing alternate to be compared with 6'4" Babb.....Also, Sutton may be gone...so factor that in and tell me with a strait face that a 6'4" shooting wing is interchangeable with a 6'8" player.

[KSU4ME]

You guys aren't reading the fine print.  You don't need a true PG, but one of your two guards has to have PG skills.

Your failure to understand this is distressing.

[pissclams]

Bottom line is that we lost Witherspoon months ago and you rejects failed to see it.  I saw it.  Maybe Waks will remember when I crossed him off of our list of 08's in a very visual post?  Well it's time to pay the piper.  And by piper I'm speaking of Chris Piper, the man who claimed that the Octagon was/is louder than AFH.  We have to pay him, then the recruits will flow to us like the salmon of Capistrano.

[michigancat]

Rusty, what team has been assembled (and been successulf) that is close to your dream team line up?  Syracuse? 

Utah's Final Four team with Doleac, Miller, and Van Horn would be close if Miller could shoot.  You have a 6-9 PF shooting 40% from 3, a center shooting 40% from 3, and a PG that was great at posting up.

I really like Majerus' philosophy.  He develops complete basketball skills for all his players, and uses them to exploit mismatches.  He's underrated as a coach because he's fat and spent all his time at Utah.

Beilein's Elite Eight team would be close.  Notice what they have in common?  Elite results with non-elite recruiting.

Rusty, what team has been assembled (and been successulf) that is close to your dream team line up?  Syracuse? 

I am struggling with Rusty's argument in the case at hand as well....I mean, I get the style he is suggesting, I just don't get it in this case.

'Spoon is 6'8" and we have NO returning post players worth a crap in 2008.  In my book, that make Spoon a desparately needed post player, and not merely a shooting wing alternate to be compared with 6'4" Babb.....Also, Sutton may be gone...so factor that in and tell me with a strait face that a 6'4" shooting wing is interchangeable with a 6'8" player.

Witherspoon is not a post.  As far as I know, he has no post skills.  And LOL @ Sutton being gone.  And I didn't say they were interchangeable, it's just that Babb becomes more important if we don't land Spoon because their styles are similar.  I'm guessing spoon is pretty similar to Cartier.

[Pete]

Witherspoon is not a post.  As far as I know, he has no post skills.  And LOL @ Sutton being gone.  And I didn't say they were interchangeable, it's just that Babb becomes more important if we don't land Spoon because their styles are similar.  I'm guessing spoon is pretty similar to Cartier.

I seem to remember Cartier getting quite a few boards, scoring in the paint (as a senior) and defending post players.

[ksu_FAN]

We could slide Hoskins over to the point. 

[KSU4ME]

We could slide Hoskins over to the point. 

QFT.  The perfect SF/SG/PG is a mutated Hoskins-Martin blend. 

Hoskins sure wouldn't put up fewer assists than the 3 per from Stewie.

[BMWJhawk]

Interesting discussion.  This is fun.

IMO, the perfect college basketball team would look exactly like Florida in '06 and '07.

1.  Taurean Green - point guard who can shoot the three as well as handle the ball

2.  Lee Humphrey - pure 3-point shooter

3.  Corey Brewer - a versatile small forward with the ability to slash to the basket as well as shoot from the outside

4.  Al Horford - power forward with ball-handling skills and the ability to hit the intermediate jumpshot

5.  Joakim Noah - center with speed and size that dominated the post and could provide an instant spark on both sides of the floor

Also, these Florida teams were as mentally tough as it gets, and they had confidence to just go out and play their game.  That's what separates a champion from a Final Four contender, IMO. 

[michigancat]

Witherspoon is not a post.  As far as I know, he has no post skills.  And LOL @ Sutton being gone.  And I didn't say they were interchangeable, it's just that Babb becomes more important if we don't land Spoon because their styles are similar.  I'm guessing spoon is pretty similar to Cartier.

I seem to remember Cartier getting quite a few boards, scoring in the paint (as a senior) and defending post players.

I remember that, too.  I don't remember him doing any of those things particularly well, (except rebounding his jr. year) and I would expect Witherspoon coming in weighing 30 pounds less than Cartier to do much worse.  We are not recruiting Witherspoon to defend the low block against Darrell Arthur or get 10 rebounds a game.  (Well, if we are, the entire staff should be fired).  His height is a nice bonus to his wing skills that we ARE recruiting him for.

[michigancat]

Rusty, what team has been assembled (and been successulf) that is close to your dream team line up?  Syracuse? 

Utah's Final Four team with Doleac, Miller, and Van Horn would be close if Miller could shoot.  You have a 6-9 PF shooting 40% from 3, a center shooting 40% from 3, and a PG that was great at posting up.

I really like Majerus' philosophy.  He develops complete basketball skills for all his players, and uses them to exploit mismatches.  He's underrated as a coach because he's fat and spent all his time at Utah.

Beilein's Elite Eight team would be close.  Notice what they have in common?  Elite results with non-elite recruiting.

No comment from zacker or anyone else?

[steve dave]

If there was a job description that required someone to start message board arguments about the skills and various merits of obscure and somewhat known basketball players vs. other mediocre basketball players Rusty would be a kajillionaire.   

[michigancat]

If there was a job description that required someone to start message board arguments about the skills and various merits of obscure and somewhat known basketball players vs. other mediocre basketball players Rusty would be a kajillionaire.   

Damn.

That would be sweet.

[catzacker]

Rusty, what team has been assembled (and been successulf) that is close to your dream team line up?  Syracuse? 

Utah's Final Four team with Doleac, Miller, and Van Horn would be close if Miller could shoot.  You have a 6-9 PF shooting 40% from 3, a center shooting 40% from 3, and a PG that was great at posting up.

I really like Majerus' philosophy.  He develops complete basketball skills for all his players, and uses them to exploit mismatches.  He's underrated as a coach because he's fat and spent all his time at Utah.

Beilein's Elite Eight team would be close.  Notice what they have in common?  Elite results with non-elite recruiting.

No comment from zacker or anyone else?

I guess it's either far easier to do it the conventional way or coaches just aren't good enough to do it the Majerus/Rusty way.  Rarely does a coach get elite results out of non-elite recruiting.  I would throw Maryland's NC team in the success w/out elite recruiting, but that's off memory without really going back and looking at that team. 

I guess I don't mind the Majerus/Rusty way, because what it usually does is it throws your best athletes on the court at once, even if they aren't "elite".  But having very few teams that fit this criteria leads me to believe it's quite difficult to pull off. 

[KSU4ME]

pfft.

Exceptions are the rule.

I need to add that to my fundamental truths.

[michigancat]

I guess it's either far easier to do it the conventional way or coaches just aren't good enough to do it the Majerus/Rusty way.  Rarely does a coach get elite results out of non-elite recruiting.  I would throw Maryland's NC team in the success w/out elite recruiting, but that's off memory without really going back and looking at that team. 

I guess I don't mind the Majerus/Rusty way, because what it usually does is it throws your best athletes on the court at once, even if they aren't "elite".  But having very few teams that fit this criteria leads me to believe it's quite difficult to pull off. 

I think the biggest problem is that coaches, in both high school and college, are reluctant to coach "skills".  They have no desire to spend time with Jeremiah Massey to extend his range beyond the three point line, or spend time teaching Lance Harris post moves so you can have him dominate smaller guards that he often faced.  I don't know why that is...maybe it's easier to sell an AD on something like a Triangle Offense or the High Low than it is to say, "I want to run a simple offensive and defensive system so I can spend more time on skill development".  Maybe it's a pride thing?  Maybe they're just regurgitating what they were taught?

The fact that not many subscribe to it that theory (in America) doesn't mean it doesn't work.  Remember when everyone laughed at Billy Beane and Bill James?  Yeah, not so much any more.  Also, look at the success Europeans have had in international play and individually in the NBA.  My dream system is very "European".

[sys]

witherspoon is definately not a post.  he's josh carter, except taller and more athletic*.







* and without the proven jumper

[michigancat]

* and without the proven jumper

Josh Carter was a one star recruit, FYI.

Babb.