Football season tickets sold out for 07'.

[Jayhoxx]

We have enough season ticket holders that advertising for them now isn't likely to generate enough revenue to justify the expense.  ku on the other hand has a LONG way to go to fill their stadium even at rawk bottom prices. 

ku had only a few thousand fewer people per game last year than K-State.     You guys have proven in the good and bad times that your max is about 45,000 reliable fans.  If you ever add to that stadium, you are fools.

[SUPERKSUFAN]

ku are fools for thinking about building a football complex when they are only a basketball school.

[Jayhoxx]

SUPERFAN completely missing the point.  Want to try again?

[SUPERKSUFAN]

SUPERFAN completely missing the point.  Want to try again?

apparently you don't get it my feathered friend

[sonofdaxjones]

I hadn't heard KSU was thinking about expanding the stadium, although I hear talk of ku taking out the track and adding another 5-7,000 seats.   When the big rivalry game with MU has sold out 1 time in the last 40 years, you've got to prepare.

[fatty fat fat]

i can't wait to lol @ ku's attendance for that 4th ooc game.

[threadkiller]

dax, I don't have any argument with the idea that something should be done to help fill t0.he upper deck.  I'm not at all against family plans, extended recent grad plans, even straight cutting the prices on some of those seats while the demand for them is low.  I  would love to see any information that shows the impact advertising the availibility of season (hell even single game) tickets has on college athletics.  I have to believe it is miniscule. 

Wabash, this may be a difficult concept, but you are talking about completely unrelated products.  Everything you said is completely irrelevant to the discussion of advertising for Kansas State University Football.  You don't grow a college sports fanbase with advertising.  You don't motivate them to purchase tickets with advertising.  People didn't pack our stadium for years because of our awesome marketing blitz.  We were very good, people came.  We didn't sell out bball season tix last year because of our new advertising campaign.  It's pretty damn simple.  Put the money into things that will improve results on the field, that's what I want. 

[~WabashRoll~]

Actually, there is very little difference between the pro and college model in terms of market potential.

All you have to do is look at what is going on right now with the Chiefs, widely considered to lay claim to one of the strongest fans bases in the country. 

Expectations for this season are down and consequently season tickets are not sold out for the first time in over a decade.  Their response is for the first time in years to run a major media campaign, offering creative packages and season tickets aimed at recouping revenue.

The Chiefs are one of the most profitable franchises in the NFL.  They didn't get that way because they're a bunch of bumbling morons in the front office.  Good advertising works.  Just as it does in the college game.

[The1BigWillie]

SUPERFAN completely missing the point.  Want to try again?

Would you care to check the cost of a ku season fb ticket and a KSU season fb ticket?  It's probably not even close.  Nice try though...

[The1BigWillie]

zacker . . . you're getting into ChiTwn cat theory that KSU has millions in unaccounted for/unreported expenses that somehow don't get put on KSU's EADA or NCAA Institutional Financial Reports.  

Just like I will predict that on the EADA report for FY 2007 . . . it will show Gross Revenue outstripping expenses for FY 2007 by $10 million.   (Of course I recognize that there isn't just $10 million dollars lying around after they audit the books).

1BigWillie . . . KSU adding another 5,000 season ticket holders would generate approx $1.6 million in ticket revenue per year.   You're telling me that the campaign to get those people would cost more than $1.6 million, and that it would take $1.6 million a year in advertising to retain them as season ticket holders, and that not one of them would contribute a dime to the Ahearn Fund, buy concessions, game programs and KSU gear??

Yes Dax... adding another 5,000 season ticket holders would most certainly help KSU.  Do you really think a corny TV commercial is going to strike deep into the hearts of 5,000 people and have them running to the phones to order season tickets???

The AD isn't out to lose money... Sometimes I think you really believe in your heart that Weiser and Co. are out to run KSU into the ground.  I don't get it...  I'm willing to listen but I'm far from convinced.

[threadkiller]

The chiefs are a team that normally doesn't have season tickets availabe, and are offering new ticket plans/packages.  Hence there is some reason to advertise (some thing new and/or not normally available).  That is not the case with Kansas State Football season tickets.   Advertising works when it has a purpose. 

[kcpowercat]

i can't wait to lol @ ku's attendance for that 4th ooc game.

With that AD history, I'm sure it will be an accurate number.   

[sonofdaxjones]

zacker . . . you're getting into ChiTwn cat theory that KSU has millions in unaccounted for/unreported expenses that somehow don't get put on KSU's EADA or NCAA Institutional Financial Reports.  

Just like I will predict that on the EADA report for FY 2007 . . . it will show Gross Revenue outstripping expenses for FY 2007 by $10 million.   (Of course I recognize that there isn't just $10 million dollars lying around after they audit the books).

1BigWillie . . . KSU adding another 5,000 season ticket holders would generate approx $1.6 million in ticket revenue per year.   You're telling me that the campaign to get those people would cost more than $1.6 million, and that it would take $1.6 million a year in advertising to retain them as season ticket holders, and that not one of them would contribute a dime to the Ahearn Fund, buy concessions, game programs and KSU gear??

Yes Dax... adding another 5,000 season ticket holders would most certainly help KSU.  Do you really think a corny TV commercial is going to strike deep into the hearts of 5,000 people and have them running to the phones to order season tickets???

The AD isn't out to lose money... Sometimes I think you really believe in your heart that Weiser and Co. are out to run KSU into the ground.  I don't get it...  I'm willing to listen but I'm far from convinced.

LOL . . . if you read and understood everything I've been saying on this thread you would get it, but you don't and you didn't.  I never said a TV commerical would be the soul reason that KSU would sell "another" 5,000 season tickets . . . that's something that needs to be put together in an intensive campaign of public visability i.e. public appearences, goal setting, communication, all spearheaded by the AD . . . and so far Tim Weiser just isn't the guy to do it.    Oh, and a whole bunch of those things that I just mentioned, don't really cost all that much money.   How many times has Tim Weiser ever stated a season ticket sales goal publically??  Never, to my recollection.

Oh, there are some people out there in the know who do wonder if Timmy is more interested in polishing his pennies than seeing KSU win anything of substance.   I want to thank the guys on Wildcat Insider on KMAN for nearly ruining a keyboard, as they proclaimed monday that KSU is poised for "ANOTHER great sports year" . . . KSU hasn't had anything resembling a "GREAT" sports year since 2003, unless you call the Texas Bowl and the NIT and WNIT a "great" sports year.  

[stormnut]

storm,
Please tell me you aren't serious?  We didn't even sell out Snyder's last game.  Time to take your pride out of the equation and realize that KSU had a great reputation but it has slipped considerably.  We don't sell out.

Wins sell tickets not adds. Unless you through in buy one get one free passes but that is just bush league.

[michigancat]

The chiefs are a team that normally doesn't have season tickets availabe, and are offering new ticket plans/packages.  Hence there is some reason to advertise (some thing new and/or not normally available).  That is not the case with Kansas State Football season tickets.   Advertising works when it has a purpose. 

Are you saying we don't need to advertise because we always have tickets available?

LMAO

[~WabashRoll~]

The chiefs are a team that normally doesn't have season tickets availabe, and are offering new ticket plans/packages.  Hence there is some reason to advertise (some thing new and/or not normally available).  That is not the case with Kansas State Football season tickets.   Advertising works when it has a purpose. 

Are you saying we don't need to advertise because we always have tickets available?

LMAO

Lol.

So, teams that have lots of tickets available don't need to advertise.

Teams that have tickets available that used to not have tickets available do need to advertise.

Got it.   

[threadkiller]

Are you saying we don't need to advertise because we always have tickets available?

Yes, that's part of what I'm saying.  Could you not understand the larger point Rusty?  People know they can get them and the details of their purchase haven't changed.   Since there is no new information to share, the goal of the proposed advertising (as I understand it) is to inspire people who would not otherwise do so into buying season football tickets sheerly by the beauty and power of the advertisement.  That seems highly unlikely to me.  Hence the argument that advertising for it's own sake (especially for this product) is stupid and wasteful (and quite pathetic imo). 

[michigancat]

Are you saying we don't need to advertise because we always have tickets available?

Yes, that's part of what I'm saying.  Could you not understand the larger point Rusty?  People know they can get them and the details of their purchase haven't changed.   Since there is no new information to share, the goal of the proposed advertising (as I understand it) is to inspire people who would not otherwise do so into buying season football tickets sheerly by the beauty and power of the advertisement.  That seems highly unlikely to me.  Hence the argument that advertising for it's own sake (especially for this product) is stupid and wasteful (and quite pathetic imo). 

Assuming everyone that would possibly buys tickets already knows where to get tickets and for how much is incredibly stupid.  Assuming that those people wouldn't be influenced by advertising is equally stupid.  Absolutely ridiculous.  Furthermore, we should be creating new programs such as family packs or discounted tickets in the upper deck corners and letting people know about them.  Do you think just accepting that we'll never have more customers is a good business plan?

You don't think ku's marketing ALL OVER Kansas City hasn't helped build their season ticket base?  They have 38,000 season ticket holders now. (how many have we sold?)  You think they sold that many because of the smashing success Mangino has enjoyed?  Seriously? 

They might pass us in attendance this year if not for the NU and ku games.  It's because they market their largest market like crazy.

[threadkiller]

Assuming everyone that would possibly buys tickets already knows where to get tickets and for how much is incredibly stupid.  Assuming that those people wouldn't be influenced by advertising is equally stupid.  Absolutely ridiculous.

Yes, I'm sure there are a significant number of prospective season ticket buyers who aren't aware that the Kansas State ticket office is the point of distribution for Kansas State football tickets.  That would be an excellent focus for a campaign.  Good point on that.  We should probably run a parallel campaign advertising that Kansas State University is located in Manhattan Kansas.  That way all our new season ticket holders might be able to find the stadium to watch their new found hobby.  How many people do you know that started following a particular college sports program because of their superior advertising?  I'm sure you know at least a couple. 

Furthermore, we should be creating new programs such as family packs or discounted tickets in the upper deck corners and letting people know about them.  Do you think just accepting that we'll never have more customers is a good business plan?

Thanks for reading up on the thread Rusty.  Not sure how many times I can say I would like to see us be more creative with ticket plans in the upper deck.  If we do that, there would be a reason to advertise it.  The only thing I don't accept is that advertising alone creates more customers for college football programs.

[catzacker]

I don't think anyone was arguing that we should only put more billboards up or run more commercials.  I think what people would like to see is more of an attempt to promote AND market KSU football.  That would mean coming up with creative products/packages for season tickets and then finding the right/appropriate forums to display/advertise these products/packages.  We seem to be satisfied with everyone knowing that KSU plays football during the fall and if they want tickets to call 1-888-CATS. 

[michigancat]

Assuming everyone that would possibly buys tickets already knows where to get tickets and for how much is incredibly stupid.  Assuming that those people wouldn't be influenced by advertising is equally stupid.  Absolutely ridiculous.

Yes, I'm sure there are a significant number of prospective season ticket buyers who aren't aware that the Kansas State ticket office is the point of distribution for Kansas State football tickets.  That would be an excellent focus for a campaign.  Good point on that.

Is that what I said?  Kansas City has gained 100,000 new residents in the last 5 years.  I'm sure 100% of those people:

1)  Have no interest in attending a college football game.
2)  Realize Kansas State is a viable option for attending a college football game
3)  Know the KSU ticket office phone number
4)  Know KSU's website by heart
5)  Know about the special North Endzone package
6)  Know KSU has freaking tickets available for EVERY GAME.

Not to mention the side advantages of keeping KSU on the mind of people - advertising isn't all about seeing the results in immediate sales - it's about developing a brand recognition, too.

We should probably run a parallel campaign advertising that Kansas State University is located in Manhattan Kansas.  That way all our new season ticket holders might be able to find the stadium to watch their new found hobby. 

KSU (the University, not athletics) could definitely use more marketing in the KC area.  But, I'm sure all potential students already know all there is to know about KSU.  We should probably abandon our student recruitment program altogether.

How many people do you know that started following a particular college sports program because of their superior advertising?  I'm sure you know at least a couple.

I definitely don't know anyone that became a KSU fan that way.

The only thing I don't accept is that advertising alone creates more customers for college football programs.

Well, no sh*t, Sherlock.  Advertising alone doesn't create more customers for anything.

I don't think anyone was arguing that we should only put more billboards up or run more commercials.  I think what people would like to see is more of an attempt to promote AND market KSU football.  That would mean coming up with creative products/packages for season tickets and then finding the right/appropriate forums to display/advertise these products/packages.  We seem to be satisfied with everyone knowing that KSU plays football during the fall and if they want tickets to call 1-888-CATS. 

I agree 100%.

[threadkiller]

Well, no sh*t, Sherlock.  Advertising alone doesn't create more customers for anything.

I'm glad we can agree on that.  Maybe we can work from there toward the hundreds of places I'd rather see KSU AD money go.

[sonofdaxjones]

So we've concluded that there's no money in selling tickets??

[Bookie Pimp]

ku had only a few thousand fewer people per game last year than K-State.     You guys have proven in the good and bad times that your max is about 45,000 reliable fans.  If you ever add to that stadium, you are fools.

By "few thousand fewer people per game", do you mean based on our ACTUAL attendance and ku's ESTIMATED attendance figures?  Or, do you simply mean that 10-15K is only a "few thousand".   Just a quick point of clarification please....   Stadium photos of ku games make it painfully obvious that "announced attendance" is nowhere near the "actual butts in seats" figure.  Further, how is it that your attendance numbers tend to land on such round numbers???   

I do agree, however, that our "reliable fanbase" is about 45K or so and that any further expansion of BSFS would be a mistake.... If they do ANYTHING, they should add more limestone facades!!

 

[michigancat]

So we've concluded that there's no money in selling tickets??

Yes.  No one has ever successfully spent money to make money.

[sonofdaxjones]

And the only way to get more people to buy tickets is to spend millions upon millions of dollars. 

[~WabashRoll~]

So we've concluded that there's no money in selling tickets??

Yes.  No one has ever successfully spent money to make money.

QFT

Time to re-write the text books.

[KSU4ME]

Is that what I said?  Kansas City has gained 100,000 new residents in the last 5 years. 

Real KSU fans from KC catch the game at Tanners.

[Saulbadguy]

I've met casual KSU fans who still think the KSU football ticket is a "tough ticket".  They might go to a game if they thought they could easily get a ticket.

[~WabashRoll~]

I've met casual KSU fans who still think the KSU football ticket is a "tough ticket".  They might go to a game if they thought they could easily get a ticket.

That's the hilarious thing.  I've got K-State friends I went to school with that have no idea that tickets are even available for the games.  I talked to a guy I work with the other day that was absolutely convinced there was a "waiting list".  And I'm not kidding.

This is exactly why the Chiefs analogy is relevant.  For the first time since pre-Marty days season tickets aren't sold out and they're at the end of the waiting list.  The response isn't to sit on their hands and just eat a huge chunk of revenue, the response is to run a massive media blitz, let the general pulbic know tickets are available and offer some creative season ticket packages. 

This is pretty basic advertising and marketing stuff, here.

The reality is the vast majority of target audience aren't die hard sports fans that spend hours a week on internet message boards following the team and have the K-State sports website and ticket office number memorized by heart.  To make the assumption that 1) the entire general fan base falls under that category and 2) that there is no potential for growth is really silly.