Date: 25/07/25 - 09:19 AM   48060 Topics and 694399 Posts

Author Topic: How much confidence do you have in RP?  (Read 5075 times)

June 04, 2007, 11:43:45 PM
Reply #60

AzCat

  • Classless Cat
  • Scout Team Wildcat

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 7320
I agree with others that a lot of people are looking too much into who we beat this game and lost to in another game.  You should only look at the full body of work of 7-6 4-4 and a bowl game and not try and over analyze every game.  The record is good considering where we were at and I think that is what he should be judged on. 

Actually you should look at the full body of work and consider not only the W/L record but how the team played in those games.  The team, particularly on defense and particularly in the last half of the season, really played very poorly.  I really didn't like what I saw happening on the field and my thoughts about Prince's likely success going forward are based almost entirely on that. 

By last half of the season, I'm assuming you mean the last two games.  That is hardly half the season.  ku was a terribly coached game injuries or not.  This was the only game that really raised any red flags.  Rutgers was way too good for us and a terrible match-up at the same time.  That was all there was to it.  We didn't stand a chance, IMO, unless we could have played it at home.  But again, the 7-6 4-4 in year one with what he inherited was very good I think.  I would probably be more analytical into each and every game as his tenure progresses and he gets his guys in that really want to play in his system. 
IMO the d was bad after the louiseville game but we're changing systems so it should be better now

Agreed.  The offense was spotty but the defense fell apart early in the season and never really recovered.  I'm not sure how much of that was coaching, how much talent (or lack thereof), how much injuries, etc.  I was on the Tibesar bandwagon very early so I do expect some improvement this year but I don't think we're recruiting at a level that will allow the program to move beyond mediocrity. 
Ladies & gentlemen, I present: The Problem

June 05, 2007, 12:49:14 AM
Reply #61

swish1

  • Classless Cat
  • Cub

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1168

If Prince goes .500 in big 12 play the rest of his career, I'll be happy.

If that is the expectation for Prince then I hope his career is about 3 years long.

Okay, let me take that back. He has Mike Leach success I'll be content.

are you allowing compensation for Leach b/c hes in a tougher division?  b/c if we never go to a big 12 championship game again i will not be content.

June 05, 2007, 05:57:54 AM
Reply #62

michigancat

  • All American

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 23713
  • Personal Text
    You can't be racist and like basketball.

If Prince goes .500 in big 12 play the rest of his career, I'll be happy.

If that is the expectation for Prince then I hope his career is about 3 years long.

Okay, let me take that back. He has Mike Leach success I'll be content.

are you allowing compensation for Leach b/c hes in a tougher division?  b/c if we never go to a big 12 championship game again i will not be content.

Prepare to not be content (w/ any coach) for a long f'ing time.

June 05, 2007, 06:25:17 AM
Reply #63

waks

  • Second String Wildcat

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 10290
  • Personal Text
    KSU Super Fan

If Prince goes .500 in big 12 play the rest of his career, I'll be happy.

If that is the expectation for Prince then I hope his career is about 3 years long.

Okay, let me take that back. He has Mike Leach success I'll be content.

are you allowing compensation for Leach b/c hes in a tougher division?  b/c if we never go to a big 12 championship game again i will not be content.

Prepare to not be content (w/ any coach) for a long f'ing time.
SSP.

June 05, 2007, 06:45:30 AM
Reply #64

fatty fat fat

  • Premium Member
  • Hall of Fame

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 29013
  • Personal Text
    The very best.
Mike Leach is 31-25 in big 12 play, has won a holliday bowl, been to a cotton bowl, beaten OU and Texas during his tenure and pretty much dominates TT's main rivals aTm.
It is a tragedy because now, we have at least an extra month without Cat football until next year. I hate wasting my life away but I can hardly wait until next year.

June 05, 2007, 07:22:55 AM
Reply #65

michigancat

  • All American

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 23713
  • Personal Text
    You can't be racist and like basketball.
Mike Leach is 31-25 in big 12 play, has won a holliday bowl, been to a cotton bowl, beaten OU and Texas during his tenure and pretty much dominates TT's main rivals aTm.

Plus he's bat crap crazy.

June 05, 2007, 08:14:01 AM
Reply #66

catzacker

  • Junior Wildcat

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 8304
  • Personal Text
    Fear the Brick
Under Snyder...since 1996 (10 years)...during a very successful run (even from at national level)  KSU only went to 3 big 12 title games, winning one.  Why the expectation that Prince should be going to a Big 12 title game half the time is beyond me. 

June 05, 2007, 08:19:58 AM
Reply #67

fatty fat fat

  • Premium Member
  • Hall of Fame

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 29013
  • Personal Text
    The very best.
Under Snyder...since 1996 (10 years)...during a very successful run (even from at national level)  KSU only went to 3 big 12 title games, winning one.  Why the expectation that Prince should be going to a Big 12 title game half the time is beyond me. 

Good points, but if Snyder had those teams in today's north, he'd be there almost every year.
It is a tragedy because now, we have at least an extra month without Cat football until next year. I hate wasting my life away but I can hardly wait until next year.

June 05, 2007, 08:30:09 AM
Reply #68

catzacker

  • Junior Wildcat

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 8304
  • Personal Text
    Fear the Brick
Under Snyder...since 1996 (10 years)...during a very successful run (even from at national level)  KSU only went to 3 big 12 title games, winning one.  Why the expectation that Prince should be going to a Big 12 title game half the time is beyond me. 

Good points, but if Snyder had those teams in today's north, he'd be there almost every year.
If any team during that time had the team they had then, now, they'd win the north.  Seneca Wallace would've lead ISU to b2b title games.  I guess the North is so equally retarded now that every team could "expect" to get to the title game, but at some point, the North will have to be a competent, tough division. 

June 05, 2007, 10:48:02 AM
Reply #69

Bullfn33

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 2152
I agree with others that a lot of people are looking too much into who we beat this game and lost to in another game.  You should only look at the full body of work of 7-6 4-4 and a bowl game and not try and over analyze every game.  The record is good considering where we were at and I think that is what he should be judged on. 

Actually you should look at the full body of work and consider not only the W/L record but how the team played in those games.  The team, particularly on defense and particularly in the last half of the season, really played very poorly.  I really didn't like what I saw happening on the field and my thoughts about Prince's likely success going forward are based almost entirely on that. 

By last half of the season, I'm assuming you mean the last two games.  That is hardly half the season.  ku was a terribly coached game injuries or not.  This was the only game that really raised any red flags.  Rutgers was way too good for us and a terrible match-up at the same time.  That was all there was to it.  We didn't stand a chance, IMO, unless we could have played it at home.  But again, the 7-6 4-4 in year one with what he inherited was very good I think.  I would probably be more analytical into each and every game as his tenure progresses and he gets his guys in that really want to play in his system. 
IMO the d was bad after the louiseville game but we're changing systems so it should be better now

Agreed.  The offense was spotty but the defense fell apart early in the season and never really recovered.  I'm not sure how much of that was coaching, how much talent (or lack thereof), how much injuries, etc.  I was on the Tibesar bandwagon very early so I do expect some improvement this year but I don't think we're recruiting at a level that will allow the program to move beyond mediocrity. 

I don't think it was so much the defense that was bad as it was the offense in a lot of these games.

Baylor - they scored 17 points and it was the stagnant offense that lost the game.  A lot of offensive players got fired from their starting roles.  We were a team in complete transition half way through it.
Okla St. - defense was pretty good considering OSUs offensive weapons, especially late when it counted. 24 pts
Nebraska - we held Nebraska to 21 points and they didn't have much success throwing the ball.  Offense was completely out manned up front that caused the lopsided loss.
Missouri - not very good defense but it was multiple offensive turnovers to start the second half that led to 3? easy gimme scores on way to give up 41 pts.
Iowa St. - 10 pts, solid defense
Colorado - defense did well for the entire game except for a lapse in the 2nd half.  21 pts, not too bad on the road
Texas - defense did good outside the first drive of the game(Colt wasn't even in).  Again, Texas received 2 breakdowns from the special teams and a Freeman INT to set up 3? very short scoring drives. 42 pts
Kansas - awful defense, awful offense 39? pts
Rutgers - awfule defense, awful offense 35 pts

What I see is a terrible offense way more than a terrible defense.  It mostly comes back to a poor Oline and poor QB decision making.  What really stood out on defense was people flying toward the ball and creating a lot of turnovers, something we never saw a lick of in 04 and 05.  The point totals are a little higher than what you would like but Prince inherited no lynch mob.  I'm not trying to paint a picture that the defense was awesome, because they have a long way to go(rush defense), but we were better defensively than you are giving them credit for.  If you really analyze it, it was almost always on the offense in our losses.
Show me defense.

June 05, 2007, 12:33:26 PM
Reply #70

Tulsa Cat

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 319
Bullfn,  Best analysis I have seen yet.  I agree that while the defense was not a national caliber great statistal power, we did limit scoring in most games.  Thos games that the offense 1) showed up and 2) didn't shoot itself in the foot with turnovers are the one we won.  I for one expect a big change on offense.  mainly due to better reads by the QB.  We really didn't have a good QB for most of last year with the exception of two games (Sorry Josh). 

Defensively, ..Man I don't know.  New scheme, new coordinator, new players.  Play two games and get back to me.
Proud member of EMAW Nation.

June 05, 2007, 12:55:44 PM
Reply #71

swish1

  • Classless Cat
  • Cub

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1168
Under Snyder...since 1996 (10 years)...during a very successful run (even from at national level)  KSU only went to 3 big 12 title games, winning one.  Why the expectation that Prince should be going to a Big 12 title game half the time is beyond me. 

i dont expect to go to the title game all the time but fatty said he'd be satisfied with leach who has never been.  id like to go again sometime and in the north i dont see why thats not possible.  also the north was much tougher when snyder was around.  if we had the teams now that snyder had back then we'd be in the title game pretty much every year.

June 05, 2007, 01:36:48 PM
Reply #72

tmramrod91

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 1360
Defensively last year:
Secondary: Solid
DL: Suckage
LB: Suckage (most of the time)

Offensively...who knew what team was gonna show up. It was no Ron Hudson led offense I know that.

This year Secondary will be top 3-4 in the big 12. As for stopping the run, that could get interesting. I'm willing to give Tisebar some time though. Thank God Brandon Cox is a little girl and we can put 8 guys in the box to stop the run.

June 05, 2007, 02:35:45 PM
Reply #73

ScubaSteve

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 714
I have 110% confidence in Prince.

Then shouldn't your answer be 11?   :poundon:
« Last Edit: June 05, 2007, 02:38:06 PM by ScubaSteve »

June 05, 2007, 03:03:30 PM
Reply #74

KSU4ME

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 2317
OSU - Gave up touchdown drives of 64 and 80 yards, plus a FG drive of 60 yards.
NU - Gave up touchdown drives of 80, 80 and 72 yards.
MU - Gave up touchdown drives of 99, 87, 52 and 62 yards, plus a FG drive of 78 yards.
ISU - Gave up a touchdown drive of 74 yards.
CU - Gave up touchdown drives of 64, 80 and 67 yards.
Texas - Gave up touchdown drives of 80, 75 and 84 yards, and a 1 play 33 yard drive.
ku - Only one long scoring drive, a FG drive of 50 yards.  This performance is fully on the crap offense.
Rutgers - Gave up touchdown drives 79 and 68 yards, plus a FG drive of 44 yards.

After September, our defense gave up at least 3 very long scoring drives in every game, except ku.  The offense committed plenty of turnovers, setting up short fields, but the defense was putting us 20+ points in the hole from long drives.

And that doesn't include all the sustained non-scoring drives that significantly altered field position to the benefit of the other team.

If you really want to get sick, look at the number of 30+ yard plays that defense gave up. 
"Mel Kiper, THE TURD"

June 05, 2007, 04:02:50 PM
Reply #75

AzCat

  • Classless Cat
  • Scout Team Wildcat

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 7320
I agree that while the defense was not a national caliber great statistal power, we did limit scoring in most games.

Not exactly, we were barely average in scoring defense last year.  For the record here are last year's defensive rankings:

Rushing Defense #78
Passing Defense #53
Total Defense #70
Scoring Defense #66
Pass Eff. Def. #59
Sacks #6
Tackles for Loss #18
3rd Down Eff. Def. #50
4th Down Eff. Def. #99

Mediocre against the pass, mediocre against the run, mediocre in holding the other team's scoring down, fair to poor at making plays when we need them.  See a trend there? 
Ladies & gentlemen, I present: The Problem

June 05, 2007, 07:13:06 PM
Reply #76

Bullfn33

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 2152
Other things to keep in mind also is how long was our defense on the field during each game, number of snaps they were on the field for etc.  If an offense is really bad, even a good defense can get worn down and start giving up drives they otherwise might not.  I don't know the stats but I'll bet it isn't pretty.  Our offense usually went three and out or moved the ball quick and scored.  I've always thought that an offense's goal should be to score and take as much time as they possibly can to do it.  Then you have an efficient football team while making the other team less efficient.  This also takes their offense out of rhythm while keeps your offense in rhythm.  I think this is why a good ground game is important to be successful.  That's also why Mike Leach will never win the Big 12.  His offensive philosophy puts to much strain on their not so great defense.  JMO
« Last Edit: June 05, 2007, 07:15:03 PM by Bullfn33 »
Show me defense.

June 05, 2007, 07:21:47 PM
Reply #77

The Whale

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 850
I'd say I've got a confidence factor of about 6 for Prince -- I expect about 6-7 wins / season from him (but hope for 8-9).

June 05, 2007, 07:58:13 PM
Reply #78

powerof10

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 82
2...he is the biggest piece of sh*t i have ever met, the reason he is good  :loly: at recruiting is because he is a liar and tells people what they want to hear. once they buy in he goes back to what he wants and being an as*h*le.

June 05, 2007, 08:02:16 PM
Reply #79

fatty fat fat

  • Premium Member
  • Hall of Fame

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 29013
  • Personal Text
    The very best.
2...he is the biggest piece of sh*t i have ever met, the reason he is good  :loly: at recruiting is because he is a liar and tells people what they want to hear. once they buy in he goes back to what he wants and being an as*h*le.

Dude, you need to post more.
It is a tragedy because now, we have at least an extra month without Cat football until next year. I hate wasting my life away but I can hardly wait until next year.

June 05, 2007, 08:05:02 PM
Reply #80

chum1

  • Scout Team Wildcat

  • Offline
  • **

  • 6944
yah it sure is...but i do have some good stories that i am going to bust loose in a while about the state of KSUFB, in my opinion

I can't wait!

June 05, 2007, 08:30:19 PM
Reply #81

waks

  • Second String Wildcat

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 10290
  • Personal Text
    KSU Super Fan
yah it sure is...but i do have some good stories that i am going to bust loose in a while about the state of KSUFB, in my opinion

I can't wait!
I saw the same thing. This guy knows the scoop.

June 05, 2007, 08:38:49 PM
Reply #82

PoetWarrior

  • Senior Cub

  • Offline
  • *

  • 2643
Which disgruntled player is powerof10?

Evridge!

Sup Allan!

June 06, 2007, 07:24:04 AM
Reply #83

KSU4ME

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 2317
T-Gunn is another possibility.

I'm willing to bet that coach is a "liar" to players that suck.
"Mel Kiper, THE TURD"

June 06, 2007, 07:30:43 AM
Reply #84

chum1

  • Scout Team Wildcat

  • Offline
  • **

  • 6944
I'm willing to bet that coach is a "liar" to players that suck.

You clearly don't have a dog in this fight.

June 06, 2007, 07:41:56 AM
Reply #85

KSU4ME

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 2317
Michael Vick, on the other hand, does.
"Mel Kiper, THE TURD"

June 06, 2007, 08:39:57 AM
Reply #86

Tulsa Cat

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 319
Proud member of EMAW Nation.

June 06, 2007, 10:04:14 AM
Reply #87

Snyderfanatic

  • Guest
Positives:
Beat Texas (major win on ABC)
Got bid to bowl (extra practice)

Negatives:
Lost to all 3 of our rivals (none of the games were close)
Offensive philosophy (swing pass, no consistent run game) will not likely produce big results in the North
Exercised less than good people/P.R. skills in chasing off Evridge, Shorty, Robert and others closely associated with KSU FB

Frankly, the guy who follows a legend will rarely be the long term answer. My money (if I had any) would be on Prince ending up as an NFL assistant in 3 years after Freeman uses up his eligibility. 
 

June 06, 2007, 01:37:08 PM
Reply #88

NorthChamps07

  • Guest
Prince takes a program, headed in the wrong direction, and goes bowling.  A group of freshman are thrown into the fire and produce good results. That was a good year! IMHO the negativity stems from the loss in Larryville and the decision by AE to leave. AE won't leave this year :D and the sqwaks will be defeathered at BSFS! :ksu:  All will be right with the world. Especially after we win the North!   :ksu:
« Last Edit: June 06, 2007, 07:33:36 PM by NorthChamps07 »

June 06, 2007, 06:57:22 PM
Reply #89

powerof10

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 82
I can tell you this is not a former player.  Thats as far as i will reveal my identity.