Date: 19/07/25 - 21:35 PM   48060 Topics and 694399 Posts

Author Topic: Mock gambling with ksuno1stunner  (Read 16904 times)

May 22, 2007, 09:51:19 PM
Reply #30

WildWillie21

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 765
So, like how does the bookie get money then?  You win and lose one, and you're up 10 bucks.

Here's the deal. If you bet the spread you are betting straight up 111.11 to win 111.11. In this instance you took the Yankees, and gave the Red Sox a 1.5 run lead off the bat. So the Yankees have to win by 2, obviously. They lost by 4 so you're down 111.11. The bookie doesn't make a percentage or anything.

Or next to the spread there is normally a (-125) or a (+105), (differs for each game). This is the money line for betting straight up. The (-125) was the Red Sox tonight. Therefore if you throw down 100 even up on the red sox without taking the runs you are throwing down $100 to win $125. But if you take the Yankees straight up the (+105) means you must bet 105 to win 100. The bookies feel the Yankees are the favorite but you are betting straight up, so you must wager more money.

The bookie doesn't make a percentage or anything. They make money because most people lose more often than they win.



May 22, 2007, 09:55:34 PM
Reply #31

ksuno1stunner

  • Guest
So, like how does the bookie get money then?  You win and lose one, and you're up 10 bucks.

Here's the deal. If you bet the spread you are betting straight up 111.11 to win 111.11. In this instance you took the Yankees, and gave the Red Sox a 1.5 run lead off the bat. So the Yankees have to win by 2, obviously. They lost by 4 so you're down 111.11. The bookie doesn't make a percentage or anything.

Or next to the spread there is normally a (-125) or a (+105), (differs for each game). This is the money line for betting straight up. The (-125) was the Red Sox tonight. Therefore if you throw down 100 even up on the red sox without taking the runs you are throwing down $100 to win $125. But if you take the Yankees straight up the (+105) means you must bet 105 to win 100. The bookies feel the Yankees are the favorite but you are betting straight up, so you must wager more money.

The bookie doesn't make a percentage or anything. They make money because most people lose more often than they win.


By betting the spread, doesn't that beat any advantage the bookie has?

May 22, 2007, 10:03:46 PM
Reply #32

WildWillie21

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 765
So, like how does the bookie get money then?  You win and lose one, and you're up 10 bucks.

Here's the deal. If you bet the spread you are betting straight up 111.11 to win 111.11. In this instance you took the Yankees, and gave the Red Sox a 1.5 run lead off the bat. So the Yankees have to win by 2, obviously. They lost by 4 so you're down 111.11. The bookie doesn't make a percentage or anything.

Or next to the spread there is normally a (-125) or a (+105), (differs for each game). This is the money line for betting straight up. The (-125) was the Red Sox tonight. Therefore if you throw down 100 even up on the red sox without taking the runs you are throwing down $100 to win $125. But if you take the Yankees straight up the (+105) means you must bet 105 to win 100. The bookies feel the Yankees are the favorite but you are betting straight up, so you must wager more money.

The bookie doesn't make a percentage or anything. They make money because most people lose more often than they win.


By betting the spread, doesn't that beat any advantage the bookie has?

No, because the spread is their advantage. They make the spreads to take away an obvious favorite. Basically they try to make it a toss up.   In which the average better loses more often than not.


May 22, 2007, 10:06:15 PM
Reply #33

ksuno1stunner

  • Guest
So, like how does the bookie get money then?  You win and lose one, and you're up 10 bucks.

Here's the deal. If you bet the spread you are betting straight up 111.11 to win 111.11. In this instance you took the Yankees, and gave the Red Sox a 1.5 run lead off the bat. So the Yankees have to win by 2, obviously. They lost by 4 so you're down 111.11. The bookie doesn't make a percentage or anything.

Or next to the spread there is normally a (-125) or a (+105), (differs for each game). This is the money line for betting straight up. The (-125) was the Red Sox tonight. Therefore if you throw down 100 even up on the red sox without taking the runs you are throwing down $100 to win $125. But if you take the Yankees straight up the (+105) means you must bet 105 to win 100. The bookies feel the Yankees are the favorite but you are betting straight up, so you must wager more money.

The bookie doesn't make a percentage or anything. They make money because most people lose more often than they win.


By betting the spread, doesn't that beat any advantage the bookie has?


No, because the spread is their advantage. They make the spreads to take away an obvious favorite. Basically they try to make it a toss up.   In which the average better loses more often than not.



So I don't have to add the 11 dollars to my calculation as a "bookie fee"?

May 22, 2007, 10:16:47 PM
Reply #34

ksuno1stunner

  • Guest
Date --- Game/Spread ---- Pick ---- Result ------ Bet ------ W/L ---- W/L Record ----- Cost ------ Running Cost ------ Winnings --------- Net --
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5/22     Bos@NYY(-1.5)      NYY        7-3         $100.00       L               0-1             -$100            -$100                   $0                -$100     

May 22, 2007, 10:17:42 PM
Reply #35

WildWillie21

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 765
No, since you bet the spread tonight you bet 111.11 to win 111.11.  The "bookie fee" when betting the spread is the 1.5 runs you gave them before the game started.

May 22, 2007, 10:19:07 PM
Reply #36

ksuno1stunner

  • Guest
No, since you bet the spread tonight you bet 111.11 to win 111.11.  The "bookie fee" when betting the spread is the 1.5 runs you gave them before the game started.

Oh ok.  So my winning percentage goes from 50% to probably 40%.  Damn.  I'd rather pay the bookie fee.

May 22, 2007, 10:24:49 PM
Reply #37

WildWillie21

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 765
No, since you bet the spread tonight you bet 111.11 to win 111.11.  The "bookie fee" when betting the spread is the 1.5 runs you gave them before the game started.

Oh ok.  So my winning percentage goes from 50% to probably 40%.  Damn.  I'd rather pay the bookie fee.

Yeah, if I was you I'd bet the straight up money lines. If you really feel a favorite is going to win straight up put that little extra money on them. Or if you feel an underdog is going to win for sure definitely put the 100 to win 125 or 150, whatever it is. That way you don't have to worry about the stupid spreads.

May 22, 2007, 10:44:09 PM
Reply #38

konofo

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 992
And I would parlay it with the over.
It feels like a 4-1 kind of night.

Oh look, it was a 4-1 kind of night... after 3 innings.  Good call on that over.  [edit: Or not; 5-1 final.]


And to try to sum it up for 'stunner:

If a line is dead even (for example, betting heads/tails on the Super Bowl coin flip), then you'll typically be risking $110 to net $100.  This is denoted as -110.  You and a bunch of others bet heads, another group bets tails.  It's heads, your group wins your $100 each.  Meanwhile, the other group paid/lost $110 each.  If the sizes of the groups were equal, then every loser's $110 will wind up as $100 to a winner, and $10 to the house.  The oddsmaker's goal here is to find a line which will garner similar action on each side, guaranteeing them that 10% for each pair of wagers. 

Now look at the line I posted earlier:

Quote
OutcomeRun Line
CHICAGO N: R HILL+1.5    
-160
SAN DIEGO: J PEAVY-1.5    
+140

In this case, there's a 1.5 run spread, but it isn't an 'even' -110.  It will cost you $160 to net $100 (or $100 to net $62.5) if you were to take the Cubs coming within 1, or you could risk $100 to net $140 on the Padres winning by 2 or more.  If there were going to be equal action on each side of the 1.5 run spread, these payouts would both be -110, but obviously, a lot more people are taking the Cubs to cover.  The payout numbers are picked (and adjusted) so that the house will only pay $100 for every $110 they collect.  (For these numbers, the math says there are roughly 3 Cubs bets for every 2 Padres bets.)

[edit:  I believe that for the kind of system you're trying to test, each wager needs to be of the even variety.  That means you have to find someone offering a spread with even payouts on both sides.]

kono
« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 11:40:44 PM by konofo »

May 22, 2007, 11:42:56 PM
Reply #39

pufizzle

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 1015
  • Personal Text
    I miss him ^^

May 23, 2007, 12:04:30 AM
Reply #40

konofo

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 992
Here's the deal. If you bet the spread you are betting straight up 111.11 to win 111.11. In this instance you took the Yankees, and gave the Red Sox a 1.5 run lead off the bat. So the Yankees have to win by 2, obviously. They lost by 4 so you're down 111.11. The bookie doesn't make a percentage or anything.

No.  If you bet the spread, and it is a site which offers a spread that pays evenly on each side (I don't know any), then you will be risking 110 to net 100.  No bookie alive would give 100 for 100 on both sides of a spread.  At least none that intend to stay in business.

Quote
Or next to the spread there is normally a (-125) or a (+105), (differs for each game). This is the money line for betting straight up. The (-125) was the Red Sox tonight. Therefore if you throw down 100 even up on the red sox without taking the runs you are throwing down $100 to win $125. But if you take the Yankees straight up the (+105) means you must bet 105 to win 100. The bookies feel the Yankees are the favorite but you are betting straight up, so you must wager more money.

No.  First off, you have your +/- backwards.  It would have cost $125 to net $100 on the Sox (+1.5) in your example.

Second, here's Bodog's NYY/BOS offerings from Tuesday:

Quote
OutcomeRun LineMoney Line
Boston (Tavarez)+1.5
-125
+152
New York (Mussina)-1.5
+105
-167

New York was the favorite to win the game outright (indicated by the -167 money line), but not quite expected to win by at least 2 (indicated by the +105 run line).  Stunner picked NYY to cover, so he risked 100 to net 105, and lost.  His bankroll is now a paltry $199,900.   :crybaby:

kono

May 23, 2007, 12:39:59 AM
Reply #41

pufizzle

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 1015
  • Personal Text
    I miss him ^^
Thank you for making the corrections.  I was too lazy to go through and tell all that was wrong.  :sleep:

May 23, 2007, 01:00:20 AM
Reply #42

ChicoRodriguez

  • Guest
This gambling stuff is quite difficult to follow, though quite interesting.

May 23, 2007, 12:22:16 PM
Reply #43

ksuno1stunner

  • Guest
This afternoon, I will bet $200.

Minnesota Twins vs. Texas Rangers (-1.5)

Date --- Game/Spread ---- Pick ---- Result ------ Bet ------ W/L ---- W/L Record ----- Cost ------ Running Cost ------ Winnings --------- Net --
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5/22     Bos@NYY(-1.5)      NYY        7-3         $100.00       L               0-1             -$100            -$100                   $0                -$100
5/23    Minn@Tex(-1.5)     Minn                     $200.00
« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 01:25:26 PM by ksuno1stunner »

May 23, 2007, 12:22:37 PM
Reply #44

ksuno1stunner

  • Guest
Correct me if I'm counting anything wrong.

May 23, 2007, 01:16:56 PM
Reply #45

pissclams

  • Administrator
  • All American

  • Offline
  • ********

  • 16026
  • Personal Text
    (worst non-premium poster at ksufans.com)
Make sure and include your balance when you post.


Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

New warning: Don't get in a fight with someone who doesn't even need to bother to buy ink.

May 23, 2007, 03:00:52 PM
Reply #46

konofo

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 992
Again, baseball betting isn't like football.  That +1.5 is the run line.  It isn't like a football spread, where you can expect a roughly 1:1 payout on either side.  Wherever you're getting your lines from, notice that every game has a +1.5 and -1.5?  The important numbers are the +/- three-digit numbers next to them.  Here's Bodog's lines for this game:

Quote
Minnesota Twins
Boof Bonser (R)
+1½
(-180)
+111
Texas Rangers
Robinson Tejeda (R)
-1½
(+160)   
-121

The bold number is the run line, the underlined number is the money line (straight up victory, no points given).

That means, if you're betting Minnesota +1.5, it takes a $180 risk to net $100.  Your $200 bet will net you $111.11 if you win.
If you're betting Minnesota outright, your $200 bet will net $222 instead.

kono

May 23, 2007, 03:25:26 PM
Reply #47

ksuno1stunner

  • Guest
I'll be betting outright then.

May 23, 2007, 03:31:51 PM
Reply #48

ksuno1stunner

  • Guest
Again, baseball betting isn't like football.  That +1.5 is the run line.  It isn't like a football spread, where you can expect a roughly 1:1 payout on either side.  Wherever you're getting your lines from, notice that every game has a +1.5 and -1.5?  The important numbers are the +/- three-digit numbers next to them.  Here's Bodog's lines for this game:

Quote
Minnesota Twins
Boof Bonser (R)
+1½
(-180)
+111
Texas Rangers
Robinson Tejeda (R)
-1½
(+160)   
-121

The bold number is the run line, the underlined number is the money line (straight up victory, no points given).

That means, if you're betting Minnesota +1.5, it takes a $180 risk to net $100.  Your $200 bet will net you $111.11 if you win.
If you're betting Minnesota outright, your $200 bet will net $222 instead.

kono

So if I bet on the favorite outright, would the $200 bet net $178 if I won?  Also, it sounds like you know what you're talking about regarding picks.  In your opinion, would having somebody with baseball knowledge and using the Martingale method work out, even in the long run?

May 23, 2007, 04:25:53 PM
Reply #49

pissclams

  • Administrator
  • All American

  • Offline
  • ********

  • 16026
  • Personal Text
    (worst non-premium poster at ksufans.com)

Date --- Game/Spread ---- Pick ---- Result ------ Bet ------ W/L ---- W/L Record ----- Cost ------ Running Cost ------ Winnings --------- Net --
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5/22     Bos@NYY(-1.5)      NYY        7-3         $100.00          L               0-1             -$100            -$100                      $0                -$100
5/23    Minn@Tex(-1.5)      Minn                     $200.00          W              1-1             -$100            -$200                     $422             +$122

OMG Stunner this crap is easy, dude you're a natural. Screw the mock gambling you're wasting time/money!!


Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

New warning: Don't get in a fight with someone who doesn't even need to bother to buy ink.

May 23, 2007, 04:28:54 PM
Reply #50

ECN

  • Classless Cat
  • Second String Wildcat

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 12184
Again, baseball betting isn't like football.  That +1.5 is the run line.  It isn't like a football spread, where you can expect a roughly 1:1 payout on either side.  Wherever you're getting your lines from, notice that every game has a +1.5 and -1.5?  The important numbers are the +/- three-digit numbers next to them.  Here's Bodog's lines for this game:

Quote
Minnesota Twins
Boof Bonser (R)
+1½
(-180)
+111
Texas Rangers
Robinson Tejeda (R)
-1½
(+160)   
-121

The bold number is the run line, the underlined number is the money line (straight up victory, no points given).

That means, if you're betting Minnesota +1.5, it takes a $180 risk to net $100.  Your $200 bet will net you $111.11 if you win.
If you're betting Minnesota outright, your $200 bet will net $222 instead.

kono

it was brought to my attention that there would be no math involved....

also, konofo = immediate jr. wildcat status.
We all know there's been a conspiracy. Only the failures have been recorded.
We all pay too much attention to Icarus, and not enough to his father.

May 23, 2007, 04:30:15 PM
Reply #51

ksuno1stunner

  • Guest

Date --- Game/Spread ---- Pick ---- Result ------ Bet ------ W/L ---- W/L Record ----- Cost ------ Running Cost ------ Winnings --------- Net --
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5/22     Bos@NYY(-1.5)      NYY        7-3         $100.00          L               0-1             -$100            -$100                      $0                -$100
5/23    Minn@Tex(-1.5)      Minn                     $200.00          W              1-1             -$100            -$200                     $422             +$122

OMG Stunner this crap is easy, dude you're a natural. Screw the mock gambling you're wasting time/money!!

I know right!!!

 :ksu:

May 23, 2007, 07:41:56 PM
Reply #52

ksuno1stunner

  • Guest
Date --- Game/Spread ---- Pick ---- Result ------ Bet ------ W/L ---- W/L Record ----- Cost ------ Running Cost ------ Winnings --------- Net --
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5/22     Bos@NYY(-1.5)      NYY        7-3         $100.00          L               0-1             -$100            -$100                      $0                -$100
5/23    Minn@Tex(-1.5)      Minn        5-3        $200.00          W              1-1             -$100            -$200                     $422              +$122

May 23, 2007, 08:10:47 PM
Reply #53

konofo

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 992
Quote
Minnesota Twins
Boof Bonser (R)
+1½
(-180)
+111
Texas Rangers
Robinson Tejeda (R)
-1½
(+160)   
-121

So if I bet on the favorite outright, would the $200 bet net $178 if I won?
If you had wanted the Rangers outright, it would have cost $121 to net $100, so $200 would net $165.  (Except the Rangers lost.)    (200/121)*100 ~= 165.

Quote
Also, it sounds like you know what you're talking about regarding picks.  In your opinion, would having somebody with baseball knowledge and using the Martingale method work out, even in the long run?

That system needs a fairly even bet with roughly 1:1 payout.  You also need a huge bankroll.  It's built for something like blackjack, I imagine, or maybe football bets, where you get a point spread that is meant to represent a 50/50 chance for each team. 

Tonight, I'm going with the Cubs to win outright.  They're a slight dog, and the payout for covering 1.5 isn't worthwhile.  30 to win 33.60.

Quote
CHICAGO N: S MARSHALL+1.5    
-200
OVER 8.5    
-110
+112
SAN DEIGO: D WELLS-1.5    
+170
UNDER 8.5    
-110
-120
   
kono
« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 08:14:11 PM by konofo »

May 23, 2007, 08:35:18 PM
Reply #54

konofo

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 992
I guess, if you want to do enough math, you can always find some wager every day that will net you enough to cover your accumulated loss.  The problem is, if you're betting on a favorite, you'd have to bet more than that amount to get even, and so your losses will be more than doubling every successive loss, maybe tripling, and that kills your bankroll faster.  If you're betting on underdogs, your losses would accumulate more slowly, but you're less likely to hit that win to pull you out of the hole.

Either way, it's not something I would do.  I prefer to stick to one (painless) wager range, adjusted a little for degree of confidence.

kono

May 24, 2007, 12:06:31 PM
Reply #55

ksuno1stunner

  • Guest
Betting $100.

Los Angeles Angels vs. Detroit Tigers (-1.5)

Date --- Game/Spread ---- Pick ---- Result ------ Bet ------ W/L ---- W/L Record ----- Cost ------ Running Cost ------ Winnings --------- Net --
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5/22     Bos@NYY(-1.5)      NYY        7-3         $100.00          L               0-1             -$100            -$100                      $0                -$100
5/23    Minn@Tex(-1.5)      Minn       5-3         $200.00          W              1-1             -$100            -$200                     $422             +$122
5/24     LAA@Det(-1.5)      LAA                      $100.00                                            -$100            -$100

May 24, 2007, 01:21:50 PM
Reply #56

konofo

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 992
You're killing me.  Angels are +140 to win outright, but that won't matter, because they're already down 6-0.

I'll take Glavine over Smoltz tonight (+123), 20 to win 24.60.

kono


May 24, 2007, 01:27:32 PM
Reply #57

ksuno1stunner

  • Guest
You're killing me.  Angels are +140 to win outright, but that won't matter, because they're already down 6-0.

I'll take Glavine over Smoltz tonight (+123), 20 to win 24.60.

kono



I'll give that game a shot.

May 24, 2007, 01:38:55 PM
Reply #58

WildCatzPhreak

  • Guest
That is some confusing crap.

kono is doing a good job of explaining it, but it's still confusing.

May 24, 2007, 01:43:20 PM
Reply #59

ksuno1stunner

  • Guest
Betting $200.

New York Mets vs. Atlanta Braves (-1.5)

Date --- Game/Spread ---- Pick ------ Bet ------ W/L ---- W/L Record ----- Cost ------ Running Cost ------ Winnings --------- Net --
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5/22     Bos@NYY(-1.5)      NYY     $100.00         L               0-1             -$100            -$100                      $0                -$100
5/23    Minn@Tex(-1.5)      Minn    $200.00         W              1-1             -$100            -$200                     $422             +$122
5/24     LAA@Det(-1.5)      LAA      $100.00         L               1-2             -$100            -$100                      $0                +$22
5/24     NYM@ATL(-1.5)     NYM     $200.00

« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 05:17:41 PM by ksuno1stunner »