Josh Freeman.....

[ECN]

you do realize that i like basketball better ...right?

[KSUIntegrity22]

you do realize that i like basketball better ...right?

Oh yeah.....He also threw for 681 yards (227 yards/game) with 6 TD's and 2 INT's in the three wins (vs. Iowa State, at Colorado and vs. Texas) that got us bowl eligible (which we hadn't been in two years).

cause ISU and colorado are such powerhouses.

 

[ECN]

its over dude.

[KSUIntegrity22]

Just one Kansas State Football fan trying to educate a Kansas State Basketball fan...

[sonofdaxjones]

It's time for tough love on Freeman.

I recall that Beamer and staff got all up in Michael Vick's grill at VT after his Soph year and told him if he didn't bear down and become more serious about being a good QB they were going to have to go another direction.

That helped Vick become a much better college QB, but not a better human being apparently.

Prince coddles Freeman too much.

[catsfan20012002]

You're probably right about that. Free didn't make it onto Crunch Time today. I think he was in a dentist appointment.

[ATLCAT21]

Colt plays defense?

colt throws touchdowns. and texas would have had more had he not gone down.

offense (texas') scores points. him going down is why they lost.

freeman got lucky...cause damn..he sucked in every other game. explain that.

we'll just see how well he does this year.

my guess is that he will suck ass. wager anyone?

More points???  56 - North Texas / 52 - Rice / 56 - Sam Houston / 63 - Balyor / 42 - KSU  

Colt would have had trouble scoring more than 42 on that night.  Yes it was a KSU fluke for us and Freeman has been only average but he was only a Freshman.  Give him another year before throwing him on top of the Cat Tracker and heading for an overpass!

[ECN]

i like basketball

[lynchmb1029]

It's time for tough love on Freeman.

I recall that Beamer and staff got all up in Michael Vick's grill at VT after his Soph year and told him if he didn't bear down and become more serious about being a good QB they were going to have to go another direction.

That helped Vick become a much better college QB, but not a better human being apparently.

Prince coddles Freeman too much.

How do we know that?  because he was the starter?  

I understand being skeptical about Freeman still....but good god, as a true freshmen behind a TERRIBLE O-line, he won 4 conference games and got us bowl eligible, something Meier, Webb and AE could not do.  

Many young QBs are known for being wildly inconsistent. I take the UT, CU, ISU and OSU performances and look with optimism for the future. Ya, he made TERRIBLE decisions in some other games and looked like a lost true frosh but how is that not somewhat expected?

[ECN]

You're probably right about that. Free didn't make it onto Crunch Time today. I think he was in a dentist appointment.

prince wouldnt let him because he didnt finish his carrots last night.

[chum1]

Free didn't make it onto Crunch Time today.

Speaking of Michael Vick...

[Pete]

Idiots.

Man, he got us with that one!

Josh is Grbac, Carson is Gannon.

[Poopley]

yeah, I'd like to see some hard evidence that Prince coddles Freeman. The only thing anyone has ever mentioned is that Prince "makes excuses" for Freeman to the press. Yeah, I want another coach like Bobby Elliott who says stuff such as "Marcus Perry works hard, but he is not a Big 12 caliber player" or "Ian Campbell is going to be a good player in this league, but he is not going to be ready to play at the level we need in 2005." Do you really belive comments like that change a player's ability? Both guys have worked hard to improve and would have done so regardless of a coach's comments.

Beyond the comments to media, what has Prince done to coddle Freeman? Does he bake him oatmeal cookies and read him And Tango Makes Three every night before bedtime? Does he tell Franklin not to yell at him in practice? WTF does he do to coddle him?

[Pete]

No, we are going off a 4-3 big 12 record. Which is infinitely better than the 4-13 record we suffered through with Evridge, Webb, Meier.

Tell me, during that 4-13 stretch did Rob Jackson, Moses Manu, James Johnson, Leon Patten, Cedrick Wilson, Ian Campbell, Mike Pooshke (sp?), J. Mastrud, and Josh Moore play much?

[fatty fat fat]

No, we are going off a 4-3 big 12 record. Which is infinitely better than the 4-13 record we suffered through with Evridge, Webb, Meier.

Tell me, during that 4-13 stretch did Rob Jackson, Moses Manu, James Johnson, Leon Patten, Cedrick Wilson, Ian Campbell, Mike Pooshke (sp?), and Josh Moore play much?

4-13 stretch = 32 points per game given up by defense

4-3 stretch = 29 points per game given up by defense.

[Pete]

No, we are going off a 4-3 big 12 record. Which is infinitely better than the 4-13 record we suffered through with Evridge, Webb, Meier.

Tell me, during that 4-13 stretch did Rob Jackson, Moses Manu, James Johnson, Leon Patten, Cedrick Wilson, Ian Campbell, Mike Pooshke (sp?), and Josh Moore play much?

4-13 stretch = 32 points per game given up by defense

4-3 stretch = 29 points per game given up by defense.

We didn't lose any close games during that stretch, so you are right.   

Nevermind, game changing plays on defense and offensive output.

[fatty fat fat]

yup, i give the QB credit for that. (2-0 in close games)*


*more than ell roberson in three years

[Pete]

yup, i give the QB credit for that. (2-0 in close games)*


*more than ell roberson in three years

So I guess Josh shouldn't get credit for the UT game because the defense was 3 points better last year than prior years...and we only beat UT by 3.

Also, AE really "beat" NU because we lost by 2, and his defense was 3 points worse than Josh.

[fatty fat fat]

What are you talking about?

My only point is Freeman is 4-3 as a big 12 starter, and evridge, webb and meier went 4-13 while the defense sucked for both sets of QB's.

I only go off w's and l's. To do otherwise is to make stupid excuses.

[catzacker]

No, we are going off a 4-3 big 12 record. Which is infinitely better than the 4-13 record we suffered through with Evridge, Webb, Meier.

Tell me, during that 4-13 stretch did Rob Jackson, Moses Manu, James Johnson, Leon Patten, Cedrick Wilson, Ian Campbell, Mike Pooshke (sp?), and Josh Moore play much?

4-13 stretch = 32 points per game given up by defense

4-3 stretch = 29 points per game given up by defense.

Had we of been a field goal a game better in '05, we would have won 2 more games and put us at 7-4 (4-4), and in the Big 12 Championship game.  That's not including the 3 point loss to CU either.  3 points is a huge difference.    

[Pete]

Stupid excuses like this?

4-13 stretch = 32 points per game given up by defense

4-3 stretch = 29 points per game given up by defense.

[fatty fat fat]

Had we of been a field goal a game better in '05, we would have won 2 more games and put us at 7-5 (4-4), and in the Big 12 Championship game.  That's not including the 3 point loss to CU either.  3 points is a huge difference.   

But we weren't. We lost those games. Freeman won them.

[fatty fat fat]

Stupid excuses like this?

4-13 stretch = 32 points per game given up by defense

4-3 stretch = 29 points per game given up by defense.

Huh? I was simply pointing out the defense's haven't really improved, yet our big 12 record got a sh1ton better.

[Pete]

This entire conversation is stupid, and I am stupid for participating...

Josh will provide objective evidence to support either one of our positions this fall....Let's table this crap unti then.

[fatty fat fat]

That Oklahoma State comeback was remarkable.

[Pete]

Stupid excuses like this?

4-13 stretch = 32 points per game given up by defense

4-3 stretch = 29 points per game given up by defense.

Huh? I was simply pointing out the defense's haven't really improved, yet our big 12 record got a sh1ton better.

All I meant was that Josh's "big" win was by 3 points...and AE was deprived of his "big" win by 2 points.

[ksu_FAN]

I don't know what the deal is here.  Josh Freeman showed flashes of being very good (CU, UT, end of OSU) and very bad (ku, RU).  I don't know why this is surprising out of true freshman playing behind a medicre offensive line and a WR corp that was decimated by injuries as the season went along.  No, Freeman's freshman numbers don't jump out at you, but I can't help but feel if he gets the right players around him and continues to mature he'll be an all league player at KSU.  Way too early to make any definative statements about Josh (good or bad) yet.

And on the "coddling"; yes, Prince has protected him in the media, but in no way was he coddled in practice by Prince or Franklin (they even took him out once and put Coffman in with the 1s) during the spring practices I attended.

[catzacker]

Had we of been a field goal a game better in '05, we would have won 2 more games and put us at 7-5 (4-4), and in the Big 12 Championship game.  That's not including the 3 point loss to CU either.  3 points is a huge difference.   

But we weren't. We lost those games. Freeman won them.

Just stick to the w/l argument without trying to prove it out through the defense's production.  Had the defense (not the QB) been better we would have had a better w/l record.  By bringing in the defense's production you aren't putting the w/l record entirely on the QB.  

[fatty fat fat]

Stupid excuses like this?

4-13 stretch = 32 points per game given up by defense

4-3 stretch = 29 points per game given up by defense.

Huh? I was simply pointing out the defense's haven't really improved, yet our big 12 record got a sh1ton better.

All I meant was that Josh's "big" win was by 3 points...and AE was deprived of us "big" win by 2 points.

You mean that game over the "big"time 4-4 cornhuskers?

Yeah, there is a big difference between a win and a loss.

[Pete]

Jesus Fatty, you just got done posting "That Oklahoma State comeback was remarkable."

How'd OSU end up?  .500