Why is hiring assistants "accepted" for high-major football, but not basketball?

[ksu_FAN]

I've always said basketball recruiting is simpler to follow, and you can see immediate impact of the recruiting in real life games.  It's possible for a four star FB prospect to not even see the field until three years after he signs.

I suppose that's why you put BB recruiting updates on the FB board.

[michigancat]

Our moderators aren't earning their paychecks.

[rjd27]

My take on what happened, was that Snyder hit a wall. It happens, and after 17 years, shouldn't have been too surprising. From hiring the right assistants to recruiting, game planning and relating to players, you must be able to balance those dynamics. All the top-notch coaches Snyder had employed through the years, the final two seasons had a drop in coaching talent. This filtered down to recruiting (how much turnover was there in this position toward the end), game planning and training the players. As hands on Snyder was, he still must delegate. Even if he wouldn't admit it, if there's even the slightest lack of trust that your assistants can't manage their responsibilities, you have to make a change. It was speculated (maybe reported) that Snyder wasn't prepared to make such changes, and instead, chose to bow out of the game.
R.J.

[chum1]

If anyone else wants to weigh in on this topic with their unique perspective that has up until now never even been imagined, now seems to be the time.

[WildCatzPhreak]

Just because X number of guys from the 98 team went to the NFL, and X number of guys from the 04-05 teams went to the NFL, doesn't necessarily mean Snyder was a great recruiter.  It means the end product, recruiting + developing, was very good.  Why do you think that the 98 guys were so much better than the 04-05 guys, when really we had a lot more recent success to recruit with when the 04-05 seniors were in high school?  I daresay it was easier for Snyder to recruit in 99-03(including redshirt freshman all the way to juco juniors) than it was for him to recruit from 93-97.  Did his eye for evaluating talent suddenly stop working as effectively? 

I don't think so.  I think it's because the coaches we had 97-03 were very good at DEVELOPING the often mediocre talent that was brought in.

[fatty fat fat]

Just because X number of guys from the 98 team went to the NFL, and X number of guys from the 04-05 teams went to the NFL, doesn't necessarily mean Snyder was a great recruiter.  It means the end product, recruiting + developing, was very good.  Why do you think that the 98 guys were so much better than the 04-05 guys, when really we had a lot more recent success to recruit with when the 04-05 seniors were in high school?  I daresay it was easier for Snyder to recruit in 99-03(including redshirt freshman all the way to juco juniors) than it was for him to recruit from 93-97.  Did his eye for evaluating talent suddenly stop working as effectively? 

I don't think so.  I think it's because the coaches we had 97-03 were very good at DEVELOPING the often mediocre talent that was brought in.

No, it's because we recruited better. Alot better.

Why do you suppose when the class of 99' graduated (last class recruited by venables/stoops) in 2003, we fell off the map after that?

[rjd27]

That's the point or one of the points I was trying to make.
In football, the assistants have to evaluate the talent, bring that talent in and then develop said talent. If the assistant coaches were brining in less talented players, the question should be "why?" Subsequently, once that talent was on campus, why were the coaches unable to mold those players into better players? In the early years, Snyder and his coaches had to find players that would come to K-State, that had coachable talent and had the potential to be better than expected. This happened time and again for the Wildcats.
After '98, the coaching staff was raided, but Snyder did a fairly good job of reloading. My biggest concern was with the recruiting coordinator position. As I wrote before, so much turnover there, I think the program lost consistency and some foundation, not to mention contacts.
R.J.

[chum1]

No, it's because we recruited better. Alot better.

You would be contradicting yourself if there were star rankings at the time.  People did actually rate classes back then.  And ours weren't anything close to the the top ten/top twenty Jeff Blake classes that we routinely pounded.  Ours were never anywhere near being on the charts. 

I rate this thread at one star primarily due to the embarrassing KSU fans stuck in the past.

[WildCatzPhreak]

Just because X number of guys from the 98 team went to the NFL, and X number of guys from the 04-05 teams went to the NFL, doesn't necessarily mean Snyder was a great recruiter.  It means the end product, recruiting + developing, was very good.  Why do you think that the 98 guys were so much better than the 04-05 guys, when really we had a lot more recent success to recruit with when the 04-05 seniors were in high school?  I daresay it was easier for Snyder to recruit in 99-03(including redshirt freshman all the way to juco juniors) than it was for him to recruit from 93-97.  Did his eye for evaluating talent suddenly stop working as effectively? 

I don't think so.  I think it's because the coaches we had 97-03 were very good at DEVELOPING the often mediocre talent that was brought in.

No, it's because we recruited better. Alot better.

Why do you suppose when the class of 99' graduated (last class recruited by venables/stoops) in 2003, we fell off the map after that?

Probably at least 75% of the 99' class would have graduated in 04 (redshirts).  This logic would imply that Snyder's worst year since he first started building the program(04) was due to bad recruiting on the part of Stoops/Venables.

[michigancat]

Just because X number of guys from the 98 team went to the NFL, and X number of guys from the 04-05 teams went to the NFL, doesn't necessarily mean Snyder was a great recruiter.  It means the end product, recruiting + developing, was very good.  Why do you think that the 98 guys were so much better than the 04-05 guys, when really we had a lot more recent success to recruit with when the 04-05 seniors were in high school?  I daresay it was easier for Snyder to recruit in 99-03(including redshirt freshman all the way to juco juniors) than it was for him to recruit from 93-97.  Did his eye for evaluating talent suddenly stop working as effectively? 

I don't think so.  I think it's because the coaches we had 97-03 were very good at DEVELOPING the often mediocre talent that was brought in.

No, it's because we recruited better. Alot better.

Why do you suppose when the class of 99' graduated (last class recruited by venables/stoops) in 2003, we fell off the map after that?

Probably at least 75% of the 99' class would have graduated in 04 (redshirts).  This logic would imply that Snyder's worst year since he first started building the program(04) was due to bad recruiting on the part of Stoops/Venables.

You're wrong, Buhl, Pierce, Ell, Shull, etc. were all 99 recruits that redshirted..

[coitus]

star rankings suck, especially ones from the late 90's.  they've revamped their rating process so many times they can hardly be compared year over year.

and if those guys were equally talented, and only needed coaching, they would have still been picked up and made the league.  and it's not like it's somewhat close.

someone dig up the '98 two deep and post it.  i'll take it from there and show how many of those guys played in the nfl.

[WildCatzPhreak]

Just because X number of guys from the 98 team went to the NFL, and X number of guys from the 04-05 teams went to the NFL, doesn't necessarily mean Snyder was a great recruiter.  It means the end product, recruiting + developing, was very good.  Why do you think that the 98 guys were so much better than the 04-05 guys, when really we had a lot more recent success to recruit with when the 04-05 seniors were in high school?  I daresay it was easier for Snyder to recruit in 99-03(including redshirt freshman all the way to juco juniors) than it was for him to recruit from 93-97.  Did his eye for evaluating talent suddenly stop working as effectively? 

I don't think so.  I think it's because the coaches we had 97-03 were very good at DEVELOPING the often mediocre talent that was brought in.

No, it's because we recruited better. Alot better.

Why do you suppose when the class of 99' graduated (last class recruited by venables/stoops) in 2003, we fell off the map after that?

Probably at least 75% of the 99' class would have graduated in 04 (redshirts).  This logic would imply that Snyder's worst year since he first started building the program(04) was due to bad recruiting on the part of Stoops/Venables.

You're wrong, Buhl, Pierce, Ell, Shull, etc. were all 99 recruits that redshirted..

My bad.  Fatty was right.  I was doing simple math in my head instead of actually working it out.  "Class of 99 + 5 years = 04".  Not taking into account that one of those five years included 99.

 

I still give credit to Beleima for being good at developing talent/good scheming.  He's doing pretty well at Wiscy, so it's hard to argue otherwise.

[sys]

I've always said basketball recruiting is simpler to follow, and you can see immediate impact of the recruiting in real life games.  It's possible for a four star FB prospect to not even see the field until three years after he signs.

I suppose that's why you put BB recruiting updates on the FB board.

thanks for the tip.  not a bad trend really.