Program would not necessarily been dead

[chum1]

We could have been just fine without hiring Martin and Hill.  Echoing dax's point, our previous coaches have failed because they were bad hires.  Wooldridge couldn't get out of the bottom of the conference because he didn't have it in him, not because he was in such a horrible talent situation.  Billy G is an excellent example of the type of turnaround that we could have made.

[WildCatzPhreak]

We would have basically been blowing it up and starting over.

Seriously, who can win with this lineup?

G: Stew
G: Young
F: Hoskins
F: Kent
C: Colon

Bench:
Yearby

No coach would want to step into that situation, and I don't think any coach would have been able to keep the recruiting class around not named Dalonte Hill.

[ksufanatic7]

Also what are the odds that we hit a home-run Gillespie type hire? I'd rather take my chances with all of this talent the next year or two and hope that martin and hill can continue to bring in decent talent.  Even if they bolt after a few years of success then I'd be fine with taking a step back at that point and finding a nice coach to continue the few years of success to be built on.

[yosh]

Not necessarily, but there was no "no brainer" hire out there was realistic.  We could have rolled the dice with a promising mid-major, but that guy could have turned out to be Asbury or Gilespie...who knows?  Even if we could have gotten a Gilespie type...it would have been a 5 year project just to get up to being as good as we will be next friggin season now.  Then that coach would have moved on to greener pastures.  The only thing we could have hoped for by doing a search was to find another Bill Synder type...an unknown who would turn things around and retire here.  That would have been an extremely unlikely scenario.  Given the circumstances, the best move was made.

[Kat Kid]

We could have been just fine without hiring Martin and Hill.  Echoing dax's point, our previous coaches have failed because they were bad hires.  Wooldridge couldn't get out of the bottom of the conference because he didn't have it in him, not because he was in such a horrible talent situation.  Billy G is an excellent example of the type of turnaround that we could have made.

That assumes we are competent at hiring coaches not named Bob Huggins.  We basically re-upped Bob Huggins for one more year.  We punted with the lead.  Now we'll see what kind of defense we have after beaz/walker bail out in a year.

[chum1]

I'm just responding to the "guaranteed twenty more years of misery" folks.

[Wildcat Jack]

Wooldridge couldn't get out of the bottom of the conference because he didn't have it in him, not because he was in such a horrible talent situation. 

I don't know if I buy this....KSU's problems may not be completely talent related but the majority of our problems over the last 15 years can be pinpointed to the... I'd say Huggins overachieved with Wooldridge's talent and we only get 23 and an NIT.....we need talent and we need guys to get them here....that will take care of alot of ills.

[steve dave]

I would imagine that, in my lifetime, we are never again going to see a #1 rated recruiting class signed up to attend Kansas State.  This is not an opportunity I would have been willing to pass up.  We may be shooting ourselves in the foot but can you imagine having to look back at all these players that never came and having to think about what could have been for the rest of your life (maybe a little overdramatic here but, whatever).

[Kat Kid]

I'm just responding to the "guaranteed twenty more years of misery" folks.

If Martin/Hill would've fell through, we would be competing for jobs with A&M and Arkansas.  We are easily the third school in that group.  Tons of good young coaches are gone.  It would've been a nightmare.  We are punting.  Three years from now we will have a great tandem of coaches and one or both will split, or they will have screwed up and we can hire a legit coach.  Or we hit jackpot land.

We punted.

[chum1]

Wooldridge couldn't get out of the bottom of the conference because he didn't have it in him, not because he was in such a horrible talent situation. 

I don't know if I buy this....KSU's problems may not be completely talent related but the majority of our problems over the last 15 years can be pinpointed to the... I'd say Huggins overachieved with Wooldridge's talent and we only get 23 and an NIT.....we need talent and we need guys to get them here....that will take care of alot of ills.

We agree.  Part of why Wooldridge didn't have it in him was that his recruiting wasn't good enough.

[Wildcat Jack]

Wooldridge couldn't get out of the bottom of the conference because he didn't have it in him, not because he was in such a horrible talent situation. 

I don't know if I buy this....KSU's problems may not be completely talent related but the majority of our problems over the last 15 years can be pinpointed to the... I'd say Huggins overachieved with Wooldridge's talent and we only get 23 and an NIT.....we need talent and we need guys to get them here....that will take care of alot of ills.

We agree.  Part of why Wooldridge didn't have it in him was that his recruiting wasn't good enough.

Okay, that's why I think the Martin/Hill hire was so important.

[chum1]

I'm just responding to the "guaranteed twenty more years of misery" folks.

If Martin/Hill would've fell through, we would be competing for jobs with A&M and Arkansas.  We are easily the third school in that group.  Tons of good young coaches are gone.  It would've been a nightmare.  We are punting.  Three years from now we will have a great tandem of coaches and one or both will split, or they will have screwed up and we can hire a legit coach.  Or we hit jackpot land.

We punted.

There's likely not really much difference between A&M's new coach, Arkansas' new coach, and what would have been KSU's new coach - just as there really isn't much difference between guys like McDermott and Anderson.  We could have gotten someone comparable.  And this coach could have gotten us to the NCAA every few years.  That's just not twenty more years of misery.

[AzCat]

It's not really a punt.  It's more like a hook and ladder from the 50 down by 6 with the clock ticking down in the tail end of the 4th quarter.  The easy part of the play has been completed successfully by hiring Hill & Martin, the tying score is the tough part and will be achieved by keeping the recruiting class mostly intact, if that happens making the NCAAs and establishing the program as a winner without Bob Huggins won't be any more difficult than kicking the extra point for the win. 

[Kat Kid]

It's not really a punt.  It's more like a hook and ladder from the 50 down by 6 with the clock ticking down in the tail end of the 4th quarter.  The easy part of the play has been completed successfully by hiring Hill & Martin, the tying score is the tough part and will be achieved by keeping the recruiting class mostly intact, if that happens making the NCAAs and establishing the program as a winner without Bob Huggins won't be any more difficult than kicking the extra point for the win. 

What happens post BeazWalk?

We find out who we hired.

Thus. . . . punt.

chum-  hiring a mcdermott would've been a disaster.  The talent deficiency would've caved the program in on itself.  That is why we needed to hire someone to keep the recruits to maintain momentum so that we could make a real hire, or ride the wave of Frank Hill to glory town.

[chum1]

chum-  hiring a mcdermott would've been a disaster.  The talent deficiency would've caved the program in on itself. 

http://kansasstate.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=40800

[Kat Kid]

chum-  hiring a mcdermott would've been a disaster.  The talent deficiency would've caved the program in on itself.

http://kansasstate.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=40800

we'll see.

[michigancat]

We could have been just fine without hiring Martin and Hill.  Echoing dax's point, our previous coaches have failed because they were bad hires.  Wooldridge couldn't get out of the bottom of the conference because he didn't have it in him, not because he was in such a horrible talent situation.  Billy G is an excellent example of the type of turnaround that we could have made.

The McDermotts and Andersons of the world will always be there - every damn year there's new versions of them.  The odds of them failing are about the same as MartinHill, but the odds of them coaching lottery picks are slim compared to MartinHill.