K-State basketball myth:

[ksu_FAN]

Jack Hartman coached and won with less talent.

Perhaps overall he might not have been the Top program in the Big 8, but he was certainly consistently in the Top 3 or 4 talent wise.

Consider:

Hartman Coached:

6 1st Team All Big 8 players.
3 Big 8 POY.
5 Big 8 NOY.
2 1st Team AAs. (one player twice.)

Hartman was a great coach, but he also coached some great players.  Kruger, Evans, Redding, Williams, Blackmon, Nealy.  All VERY good players.

[michigancat]

I saw that post on gp.com and thought the exact same thing.


In a strange twist of fate, Jack's best teams usually had a first teamer on the roster.

Whodathunkit?   

[ksu_FAN]

Most the oldtime K-State Bball fans seem to think Jack could've taken any of the teams of the last 15 years and gotten them into the Sweet 16. 

Jack was great for K-State and way before my time, but there is definately a case of notalgia or something going on with him. 

1st teamers (league or AA) make lots of coaches look good.  Its gotta be both.

[Saulbadguy]

Is this thread just for this myth, or can we put other ones in here too?

You guys should have never ran Altman out of town!

[ksu_FAN]

Feel free to include all and any myths.

Here's a good one:

K-State basketball sucks b/c we left Ahearn.

[michigancat]

Wooldridge is a better basketball coach than Asbury.

[michigancat]

You can't get good players to come to Manhattan.

[michigancat]

KSU fans can't/won't support a good basketball team.

[Saulbadguy]

K-State would dominate the MVC.

[fatty fat fat]

Losing Fred Peete was addition by subtraction. 

[KS4KSU]

I think you have to give Jack credit for coaching those players to greatness. None of those guys were All-Americans when they got here.  It goes back to expecting daily improvement. All his players got better and he had a 'winning atmosphere' at all times. Maximum effort was always expected. What made Hartman great was the contributions his teams received from every player, not just the All-Americans. He was also a brilliant strategist and game coach. I see no reason to sully his memory in any way.

[michigancat]

Losing Fred Peete was addition by subtraction. 

Building on this, so was:

Losing Jeremiah Massey (absolutely unbelievable that people spew this crap)
Losing Dez Willingham (he saw the writing on the wall aka the awesomeness of Clent Stewart.)
Losing Nick Williams (absolutely ruined the 03-04 season)



I'll throw in:

"Hoskins is better in the post offensively than Massey".

[michigancat]

I think you have to give Jack credit for coaching those players to greatness. None of those guys were All-Americans when they got here.  It goes back to expecting daily improvement. All his players got better and he had a 'winning atmosphere' at all times. Maximum effort was always expected. What made Hartman great was the contributions his teams received from every player, not just the All-Americans. He was also a brilliant strategist and game coach. I see no reason to sully his memory in any way.

I don't think FAN was bagging on Jack at all...

Jack was a winner.  That's all that matters.  He just happened to win more when he had better players.

[Saulbadguy]

Losing Fred Peete was addition by subtraction. 

I'll throw in:

"Hoskins is better in the post offensively than Massey".

I've never seen that said...

Although, Hoskins is somewhat like Massey was in Masseys first year.  Worse, though.

[michigancat]

Losing Fred Peete was addition by subtraction. 

I'll throw in:

"Hoskins is better in the post offensively than Massey".

I've never seen that said...

Although, Hoskins is somewhat like Massey was in Masseys first year.  Worse, though.

I think Whitlock's the only one I've seen say that.

[Dan Rydell]

Asbury was "getting the job done."

I just heard that one today, for the first time.  Amazing how much people forget in 6 years.

 

[Saulbadguy]

This is more of an overall myth..but....

"ESPN hates K-State"

"The officials hate K-State"

etc...

[sonofdaxjones]

Jack did have some studs, and surrounded them with other very good basketball players.   Plus in his prime his system took full advantage of his guys skills, and shooters had the green light to shoot.  

[kougar24]

Asbury was "getting the job done."

I just heard that one today, for the first time.  Amazing how much people forget in 6 years.

 

Yeah, that guy is getting reamed over at KSF.

[michigancat]

Asbury was "getting the job done."

I just heard that one today, for the first time.  Amazing how much people forget in 6 years.

 

Yeah, that guy is getting reamed over at KSF.

LOL.  He's really getting pwn3d!!@   

[fatty fat fat]

Damn that baylor game thread is some funny crap.

[kougar24]

What was in the Baylor game thread? I don't remember it.

Rusty: I'm supporting a Nolan Richardson thread over there, kind of.

[michigancat]

What was in the Baylor game thread? I don't remember it.

Rusty: I'm supporting a Nolan Richardson thread over there, kind of.

Please, hold off on coaching speculation until the season plays out.  Wooly is our coach and we should support him.

[kougar24]

What was in the Baylor game thread? I don't remember it.

Rusty: I'm supporting a Nolan Richardson thread over there, kind of.

Please, hold off on coaching speculation until the season plays out.  Wooly is our coach and we should support him.

Uh, you didn't hear that from me.

[michigancat]

Jim Wooldridge is a good recruiter, he just can't coach.

[Saulbadguy]

Jim Wooldridge is a good coach, he just can't recruit.