Fred Brown vs. Blake Young

[yosh]

I just figured the Stew/Pullen discussion was getting a little stale.

Both have ugly shots, but Brown's go in at a better rate (38% to 35% and 37% to 32% from three)

Similar A/TO ratios (Brown 1.38 Young 1.40)

Defensively, Fred Brown has 3 blocks and 10 steals in 224 minutes, while Young has 1 block and 29 steals in 859 minutes.  If you project Brown's numbers out he'd have 12 blocks and 38 steals.

Young gets 3.4 rpg in 28.6 mpg.
Brown gets 1.3 rpg in 9.3 mpg. (projects out to 3.0 in the same mins)

Young nets 6.2 ppg in 28.6 mpg
Brown nets 4.1 ppg in 9.3 mpg (projects out to 12.6 ppg)

[GoodForAnother]

I'll take Fred.

[bfred]

I completely agree, although I love blake's tenacity. Brown is a better defender and a way better outside shooter... however, I have yet to see a good drive a finish layup play. Both times I have seen him attempt to do a layup, he has tried to make it too flashy and failed miserably... one of those was a game determining one.

[waks]

This debate makes little sense whereas the Stew v. Pullen debate is bearable. Young plays against much better competition than Brown. 90% of Brown's minutes and points have come in the last five minutes of the game and against weak competition. In addition to that, Brown plays on a full tank of gas. Blake plays exhausted because he plays 20 more mpg compared to Brown.

I completely agree, although I love blake's tenacity. Brown is a better defender and a way better outside shooter... however, I have yet to see a good drive a finish layup play. Both times I have seen him attempt to do a layup, he has tried to make it too flashy and failed miserably... one of those was a game determining one.

This statement is just asinine.


I like Brown and he'll probably be good for us in a year or two but we haven't seen near enough from him to even compare him to Blake. There's a reason Blake has started the most consecutive games out of anyone on our team.

[pwrcat1]

brown shoots his shot from his nuts, which means a midget could block it.  Young's shot looks like he's having a seizure... however, assuming they're left open, i'd rather see fred shooting the trey. 

i love the intensity blake brings on d.  neither are gonna be scoring threats, however badly we need them to be.   blake does a great job crashing the weak side every time a shots put up, which comes with experience and knowing your role. so on that drawn out note...i say stick with blake.

[SCHITZ]

brown shoots his shot from his nuts, which means a midget could block it.  Young's shot looks like he's having a seizure... however, assuming they're left open, i'd rather see fred shooting the trey. 

i love the intensity blake brings on d.  neither are gonna be scoring threats, however badly we need them to be.   blake does a great job crashing the weak side every time a shots put up, which comes with experience and knowing your role. so on that drawn out note...i say stick with blake.

Downtown Freddy Brown is a scoring threat: see Xavier game.

[AzCat]

Young is by far the better defender, is light years ahead in his decision-making, actually finishes more often than not inside, and has a knack for coming up with rebounds / loose balls in his area.  He's done a great job at KSU in moving from scorer to point last year then from point back of the wing this year while generally not doing boneheaded things out there. 

By his senior year, and probably sooner ... much sooner hopefully, Fred will be a better player than Blake.  But he still has a propensity for tossing up long semi-guarded treys with 25+ left on the shot clock, even in close games and even when he's on the floor with Mike and/or Bill.  I wouldn't be surprised if Fred didn't have more shot attempts per minute played than anyone on the team, it sure seems that way.  Once Frank browbeats him into being more of a team player he'll really begin to shine.

[frankencat]

Statistics lie

[kougar24]

Young is by far the better defender, is light years ahead in his decision-making, actually finishes more often than not inside

Tell me you're joking. Young is possibly the worst finisher inside 5 feet that I've ever seen.

[steve dave]

Blake >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fred this season.  Blake rebounds well, defends well, is scrappy (< Hansboroughish), attacks the basket with abandon usually getting his shot thrown into the stands but also usually drawing a foul.  Fred may be good some day but Blake is much more important to this team than people think.

[ksu_FAN]

I'm one of the Stew defenders, but I can see the Pullen is clearly a better player than Stewart right now and would have no problem with Pullen getting 30 minutes and Stew 25. 

With Brown vs Young this isn't even close.  Brown should never play more than 5-10 minutes a game, and 10 minutes is really pushing it, this year.  Brown hit a nice shot saturday, then went into shoot every time I touch it mode and seemingly forget we had an offense.  The fade away from the baseline being good evidence of this.

[steve dave]

I don't understand the Fred Brown love 

[kougar24]

The fade away from the baseline being good evidence of this.

That play really pissed me off, and I already knew the outcome of the game while watching it (DVR).

[fatty fat fat]

At this point, we'd be better off playing Brown instead of Stew..and forcing Pullen to play the full forty, ala DJ Augustine.

[steve dave]

At this point, we'd be better off playing Brown instead of Stew..and forcing Pullen to play the full forty, ala DJ Augustine.

The Brown v. Stew argument may have legs

[AzCat]

Young is by far the better defender, is light years ahead in his decision-making, actually finishes more often than not inside

Tell me you're joking. Young is possibly the worst finisher inside 5 feet that I've ever seen.

Obviously you've not seen Brown in there.   

[ksu_FAN]

At this point, we'd be better off playing Brown instead of Stew..and forcing Pullen to play the full forty, ala DJ Augustine.

The Brown v. Stew argument may have legs

No.  Stew should play, but he should play less than Pullen.  Brown should never be in the game for more than 10 minutes.

[fatty fat fat]

At this point, we'd be better off playing Brown instead of Stew..and forcing Pullen to play the full forty, ala DJ Augustine.

The Brown v. Stew argument may have legs

No.  Stew should play, but he should play less than Pullen.  Brown should never be in the game for more than 10 minutes.

I'm this (motioning 3 cm's with my fingers) close to making a stew blooper reel.

[AzCat]

At this point, we'd be better off playing Brown instead of Stew..and forcing Pullen to play the full forty, ala DJ Augustine.

The Brown v. Stew argument may have legs

No.  Stew should play, but he should play less than Pullen.  Brown should never be in the game for more than 10 minutes.

I'm this (motioning 3 cm's with my fingers) close to making a stew blooper reel.

 

[yosh]

I posted this mostly because I was a little astonished at how good Brown's numbers were (with the exception of free throw shooting).  Watching him play, however, it's obvious that he isn't ready.  He needs to develop his BBIQ and decision making.  Also should work on getting his release higher and shooting FTs.  Still, it's interesting and makes me think he could be a 8-10 ppg guy off the bench as soon as next season. 

[ksu_FAN]

A more valid comparison, IMHO.

Harris: 27 games, 213 minutes played, 7.9 MPG, 21-73 FG/.288, 10-42 3FG/.238, 6-14 FT/.429, 23 rebounds, 16 A, 14 TO, 6 Steals.
Brown: 24 games, 224 minutes played, 9.3 MPG, 36-94 FG/.383, 19-51 3FG/.373, 8-16 FT/.500, 32 rebounds, 18 A, 13 TO, 10 Steals.

[yosh]

A more valid comparison, IMHO.

Harris: 27 games, 213 minutes played, 7.9 MPG, 21-73 FG/.288, 10-42 3FG/.238, 6-14 FT/.429, 23 rebounds, 16 A, 14 TO, 6 Steals.
Brown: 24 games, 224 minutes played, 9.3 MPG, 36-94 FG/.383, 19-51 3FG/.373, 8-16 FT/.500, 32 rebounds, 18 A, 13 TO, 10 Steals.

And Harris was a 10ppg guy from soph. on.  Brown could be similar.  Nice post Fan.

[sys]

I wouldn't be surprised if Fred didn't have more shot attempts per minute played than anyone on the team.

i wouldn't be surprised if kenpom could answer this question.

http://kenpom.com/sr.php?team=Kansas%20St.&y=2008

[kougar24]

Young is by far the better defender, is light years ahead in his decision-making, actually finishes more often than not inside

Tell me you're joking. Young is possibly the worst finisher inside 5 feet that I've ever seen.

Obviously you've not seen Brown in there.   

Too small a sample size to challenge Young for the crown.

[Saulbadguy]

Fred Brown is just a slightly crappier version of Chris Babb, with pos. more upside.

[steve dave]

Fred Brown is just a slightly crappier version of Chris Babb, with pos. more upside.

Interesting analysis.  Makes Tyree even more important and unlikely.

[pwrcat1]

(as already stated) fred's minutes usually do not come at the most intricate times of the game.  blake might not have the greatest finishing percentages but he does get himself to the line, where fred has been flat out horrendous.  get fred in the weight room, and wait for next year.  theres no point in trying to change his shot release.  its how he's shot all his life and to change it would mean reverting all the way back to jr. high. if anything thats only gonna hurt it.  instead he needs to get stronger and work on gaining separation to create open looks.  just imo.

[SuperG]

Blake Young hands down because of the intangibles... diving after loose balls, tips outs on the offensive glass, on the ball defense, etc. Fred's just not as active at this point.