We've Got To Think Long Term

[pissclams]

Screw the idea of saving this class, there is no guarantee that by signing Martin or Hill that the class will stay.  And even if they did, it's not in the best interests of KSU to hire a coach based upon what they bring in year 1, for 1 year, over what they bring in the span of say 5 years.  A lot of what Martin and Hill accomplished was because they worked for Scumbag.  Do you think that kids aren't influenced by knowing that Scumbag puts players in the league?  And now that Scumbag is gone, do you think they will continue to have the same success?  My concern is that Frank Martin is going to recruit a team of Luis Colons. 

We need a top assistant from a major program.  The guy will have the recruiting connections and run in the circles that need to be run in.  He'll have been exposed to all the things that major programs do, and will hopefully bring those things to KSU with him.  There's a lot of intangibles we as KSU fans were exposed to this season just because of Huggins and what he brought, we need to be cognizant of all these things.

[Trog]

2 days ago we might have consider KSU to be a top program (or soon to be).  So Frank would constitute a top assistant for a potentially to program.

Working on the spin.

[cireksu]

Martin has more upside right now.

He won't stay forever but who is out there that would?

Fox

Henson

[AzCat]

You've already *GOT* two guys at KSU with bigtime recruiting connections.  This "top assistant from a major program" stuff is asinine.  Why flush the devil you know for an unknown quantity?  That makes no sense at all. 

If we're chucking Martin and Hill out the door ... which we will be if we don't hire one of them as HC ... it had damn well better be for a bigtime proven quantity.  Those two ARE top assitants at a major program.  Duh.

[cireksu]

Give martin 3-4 years and there should be more candidates available.  There was just too much turnover at major programs.  All the good candidates are gone.

[pissclams]

You've already *GOT* two guys at KSU with bigtime recruiting connections.  This "top assistant from a major program" stuff is asinine.  Why flush the devil you know for an unknown quantity?  That makes no sense at all. 

If we're chucking Martin and Hill out the door ... which we will be if we don't hire one of them as HC ... it had damn well better be for a bigtime proven quantity.  Those two ARE top assitants at a major program.  Duh.

http://www.kansascity.com/182/story/61387.html

First, we aren't a major program, not sure where you got that idea but we haven't been in the NCAA's in a decade and we play in a mid-major league.
Secondly, you're suggesting we hand over the keys to our program for a recruiting class that will be gone in one year.  That's asinine.

[michigancat]

First, we aren't a major program, not sure where you got that idea but we haven't been in the NCAA's in a decade and we play in a mid-major league.
Secondly, you're suggesting we hand over the keys to our program for a recruiting class that will be gone in one year.  That's asinine.

You don't think this is the last decent class Martin and Hill could put together, do you?

[AzCat]

Cinci with the Scumbag at the helm was a major program.  KSU bacame a major program again the day he set foot in Manhattan whether you want to acknowledge that fact or not.  Hill might be arguable but Martin is ABSOLUTELY a top assistant at a major program. 

[AzCat]

First, we aren't a major program, not sure where you got that idea but we haven't been in the NCAA's in a decade and we play in a mid-major league.
Secondly, you're suggesting we hand over the keys to our program for a recruiting class that will be gone in one year.  That's asinine.

You don't think this is the last decent class Martin and Hill could put together, do you?

Yes he does, he's reverted to being an idiot.

[doom]

If by thinking long term you mean not dropping into last place in the big12... your right!  If we keep the class...  Walker and Beas are gone in one year.  But Sutton, and Pullen aren't.  That's a solid base for when D-hos and Stewy graduate.  Then Frankie boy can get some of his own or Dalonte's recruits in here to go with them... otherwise our new Woolylike coach will recruit some more Pascos and please don't tell me you that is better.  I hate to say it but this time short term is the only way to think long term.

[jaa1025]

Frank Martin with D. Hill IS long term in the fact that the only players that will jump early are Beasley and Walker after next year we WILL STILL HAVE MORE TALENT ON THIS ROSTER PRE (the name I will never speak) and easily built upon.

IF we lose this recruiting class we have NOTHING to build upon and our program will be in shambles for quite some time....

So, if Frank Martin and Hill stay and can somewhat coach and they can continue to recruit, we will be fine. Even if Martin leaves for greener pastures in 3-5 years, we will be better off for the next coach. Hopefully, Martin would turn out to be a Roy Williams type coach (unkown with no prior HC experience) or somewhat close and stay for 15+ years, but he CANT be worse than Asbury and everyone since.

[BrotherDDay]

Bascially, you're saying we should go to Illinois State and woo Tim Jankovich to "come home".

It's pretty simple: K-State has Beasley's, Sutton's, Pullen's and Brown's signatures.  Three of these guys have claimed they're loyal to Hill... not Huggins.  When was the last time K-State had talent like this signed?  Never.  So one of them might bolt after one year... the attention he'll bring to K-State in one year will be greater than K-State bball has ever had.

The current players in the program will be working on their second or third head coach in as many years.  Continuity in the program is the best thing for it right now.  You get that with the Martin, Hill, Underwood, Greenawalt package.  

[jaa1025]

Just to add to my last post...its not like the top coaches can coach in this league...they can just recruit. Well, at least Barnes and Self are average coaches at best. They recruit out of this world and that's what sets them apart.

[Dan Rydell]

0-16 in the Big 12 would hurt us long-term.

[jaa1025]

And while im on a roll....

Success breads success as someone has said. If F. Martin is a halfway decent coach with this talent, it would be easier to recruit with national exposure that we would have than with 6 scholarships to give and D. Kent and co as your starters.

[~WabashRoll~]

We can think long term, but first we need to think short term.  Salvaging this class and getting the talent here to Manhattan in priority number 1.

We cannot afford to in effect lose two full recruiting classes and set our program back another 4 years at minimum to undergo another rebuilding process.

In my opinion, at this point it’s imperative we keep Frank and Dalonte.

Don’t anyone thing differently, at this very moment Huggins is doing all in his power to get Martin and Hill to follow him to West Virginia.  He knows what bringing Dalonte means.  And he couldn’t care in the slightest who it effects.  Jesus, look at the way he treated Bill Walker.  If I’m the parent of player considering going to play for this man, look no further than the abandonment and betrayal showed to that poor kid. 

He’s a user.  Always has been, always will be.  It’s not enough that this selfish son of a bitch stabbed this University in the back, he’ll turn the knife if we let him.  There is no conscience.  That’s evident.  He’s already started contacting our recruits.  I guarantee you he is doing EVERYTHING in his power to get Dalonte to West Virginia.  And when Beasley goes off to the NBA, he’ll kick Dalonte to the curb as well, for the next assistant that will deliver a player for him. 

[coitus]

here's thinking long term.

if this recruiting class is lost, the team is basically david hoskins/bill walker for 1 year.  and there aren't any legit recruits out there to take the spots of the recruits that bail.

so you end up with a class of stiffs for 2 years (assuming the new hc is smart enough to recruit jc stiffs versus hs stiffs).

at that point, we're exactly where we were when wooly took over.  empty cupboard, off the radar and suckage galore.

[michigancat]

Just to add to my last post...its not like the top coaches can coach in this league...they can just recruit. Well, at least Barnes and Self are average coaches at best. They recruit out of this world and that's what sets them apart.

Great post.

[AzCat]

here's thinking long term.

if this recruiting class is lost, the team is basically david hoskins/bill walker for 1 year.  and there aren't any legit recruits out there to take the spots of the recruits that bail.

so you end up with a class of stiffs for 2 years (assuming the new hc is smart enough to recruit jc stiffs versus hs stiffs).

at that point, we're exactly where we were when wooly took over.  empty cupboard, off the radar and suckage galore.

Ding! Ding! Ding!  We have a winner!  Everyone that believes we should do anything other than lock up Martin and Hill today should read this post several times.  Martin and Hill ARE the long term solution whether they stay one year or forever.

[pissclams]

Just to add to my last post...its not like the top coaches can coach in this league...they can just recruit. Well, at least Barnes and Self are average coaches at best. They recruit out of this world and that's what sets them apart.

This was covered in my first post, learn to read and get back to me.

First, we aren't a major program, not sure where you got that idea but we haven't been in the NCAA's in a decade and we play in a mid-major league.
Secondly, you're suggesting we hand over the keys to our program for a recruiting class that will be gone in one year.  That's asinine.

You don't think this is the last decent class Martin and Hill could put together, do you?

There's nothing to lead me to believe it wouldn't be.  This class was masterminded and put together by Huggins.  As Sutton remarked yesterday, it's a package deal.  Sutton, Beasley, and Walker.  He sold it to them, whether directly or through Hill. 

First, we aren't a major program, not sure where you got that idea but we haven't been in the NCAA's in a decade and we play in a mid-major league.
Secondly, you're suggesting we hand over the keys to our program for a recruiting class that will be gone in one year.  That's asinine.

You don't think this is the last decent class Martin and Hill could put together, do you?

Yes he does, he's reverted to being an idiot.

Says the guy asking to give Martin and Hill a $2M buyout....Friggin' LOL.

[chum1]

Well, I don't have any reasons for you other than that my gut tells me that handing the keys to someone like Grant is a far better move than trying to throw a plan with many, many contengencies together in a rush.

[pissclams]

Well, I don't have any reasons for you other than that my gut tells me that handing the keys to someone like Grant is a far better move than trying to throw a plan with many, many contengencies together in a rush.

QFT

The thing is, we do have to act quickly, we just have to make the right decisions when we do.  Every day that goes by without a head coach is another opportunity for tampering with our recruits/players.  We also want to get the best coach available before A&M and Arkansas does.

[AzCat]

First, we aren't a major program, not sure where you got that idea but we haven't been in the NCAA's in a decade and we play in a mid-major league.
Secondly, you're suggesting we hand over the keys to our program for a recruiting class that will be gone in one year.  That's asinine.

You don't think this is the last decent class Martin and Hill could put together, do you?

Yes he does, he's reverted to being an idiot.

Says the guy asking to give Martin and Hill a $2M buyout....Friggin' LOL.

To quote a certain poster here, "Learn to read."  I never suggested placing a large buyout in Martin's contract but only in Hill's contract.  We'll have to pony up HC money for Martin but only assistant money for Hill.  But he have to make Hill so expensive that Huggins and Tim Floyd won't engage in a bidding war for his services/recruits.  The only way to guarantee that we get both Martin (who should be a HC somewhere) and Hill (who isn't ready but has the #1 class in the nation in his hip pocket) is to make hiring Hill next year an EXTREMELY unattractive proposition.  You can't pay him enough as an assistnat to make that happen so you have no choice other than to make the buyout outrageous.  Otherwise you'll get Martin and Hill will take his #1 class and go to West Virginia or California.  Does that sound like an appealing proposition?  Doesn't to me.

[pissclams]

Are you planning on having the recruits sign the coaching contracts on the dotted line next to Martin and Hill's names?
There's nothing that guarantee's that if we keep the coaches that the recruits will honor their commit.

Offering an assistant coach a $2.5M buyout, that's certainly both Bold and Daring, I like it!