To summarize

[Dan Rydell]

Lots of threads making good points on here.  I'd like to summarize in one Grand Theory of the KSU Football Universe as it exists today.

*  As I said yesterday on chat and as is being echoed on various threads now, the negative reaction we're currently seeing is the result of two factors:  the administration overrating their hire (and the fans buying into this overrating and Prince himself contributing to it with his public statements), and the fans overrating the returning talent on this team.  Now that fans are realizing that both this hire, and the returning talent were overrated, they're not pleased...even though there were some rational heads back then telling them to not get their hopes too high.

*  The important thing now is that there are three winnable games left on this schedule.  The brutal part of this schedule started with Louisville and continued through last week.  We were able to pull out Oklahoma State, and if Prince can get his guys to win even two of the remaining games, things will look much better than they do now.  If they can win three, we should all be greatly encouraged.

*  There are questions about playcalling and questions about recruiting.  Let's wait and see what happens over the next month before we abandon all hope with Prince, though.  Two or three more wins, and things look much better.  The truth is that we can't tell whether Prince is the right guy or not right now...and it doesn't matter one little bit, because he gets at least through the end of next season (and, barring something like a winless season next year, he's gonna get at least through 2008).  You may be convinced that Prince isn't gonna get it done, and he may not, but he cannot be fired this year, and it's 99% that he can't be fired next year, either.  So you can raise all the ruckus you want, but it's pointless for at least another year and a half. 

Bslimz and Rusty......

Why are you both such negative Nancy's when it comes to our football program ??

Why are you and so many others having pie-in-the-sky fantasies about an 8-4 season with a new head coach with no previous HC experience who is inheriting a team that couldn't break .500 under one of the greatest football minds of all time?  Being a realist doesn't make one a "Negative Nancy."  No need to start namecalling those of us who aren't bathing in the showers of purple koolaid that are washing around GPC.com and ksf.com.

I'm not suggesting that Prince shouldn't have been hired.  I'm just saying that I'll be surprised, and pleased, with anything better than 4-8 this year.  In fact, I'd be willing to wager that if we go 5-7, you'll come back here in 6 months to find that I'm defending Prince against folks who predicted that we'd go 8-4 this year and are therefore disappointed in Prince's performance.  Now, if we're still 5-7 two-and-a-half years from now, I'll join them in saying we hired the wrong guy.

I don't like what I see.

Do you honestly think losing Webb is the best thing for this team?

What he said.

[michigancat]

Great post(s).

[catzacker]

The remaining games could end up catapulting this team to hopefully a special year next year.  Callahan was a T-George penalty away from possibly getting his ass fired last year, or at a minimum getting him on an incredibly hot, hotseat.  Instead, NU won against us and went on a nice little roll and generated some momentum for this year. 

[The Manhatter]

good summary slimz.

 

[BrotherDDay]

Bravo -- this sums it up completely. 

 

[chum1]

Expectations shouldn't be determined by hype.  They shouldn't be determined by our perceptions of talent.  They shouldn't be determined by our perceptions of winnable games.  They shouldn't be determined by the length of time that our administration is committed to a coach.  Also, negative reactions are not necessarily determined by expectations.  This team has exceeded my expectations, but I'm not happy.  We're not just losing, we're really not very competitive in our conference games.  We should be more competitive this year.

[michigancat]

Expectations shouldn't be determined by hype.  They shouldn't be determined by our perceptions of talent.  They shouldn't be determined by our perceptions of winnable games.  They shouldn't be determined by the length of time that our administration is committed to a coach. 

What should expectations be based on, then?

[fatty fat fat]

FAN's state of the union post was much better.

[chum1]

Expectations shouldn't be determined by hype. They shouldn't be determined by our perceptions of talent. They shouldn't be determined by our perceptions of winnable games. They shouldn't be determined by the length of time that our administration is committed to a coach.

What should expectations be based on, then?

That was very confusing.  I used the same word in two different senses.  Here’s another stab at it:   

Our aspirations shouldn't be determined by hype.  They shouldn't be determined by our perceptions of talent.  They shouldn't be determined by our perceptions of winnable games.  They shouldn't be determined by the length of time that our administration is committed to a coach.  I don’t know what they should be determined by exactly, but it should probably be something more like a desire to compete with the best.

Negative reactions are not necessarily determined by expected outcomes.  This team has done better than I thought they would thus far, but I'm not happy.  Those that thought the team would have done better thus far may be unhappy because they were wrong.  But they may also be unhappy because their aspirations have not been met.  Many may feel that their aspirations have not been met because we’re not just losing, we're really not very competitive in our conference games.  They may feel that we should be more competitive this year.

Overall, I’m glad that people are not happy with losing.

[ksu_FAN]

I'm certainly not happy with losing, but there has to be the perspective that you must run before you walk.  For me at least, that means tempering frustration and holding off on really evaluating this team after the season.

And to me winning "winnable" games is what Coach Snyder majored on during our rise and our success in the 90s.  From 93 to 00 his teams lost 2 games to unranked teams, both on the road.  We were 9-2 vs teams ranked 11-25 and 1-13 vs Top 10 teams.  He built a consistent Top 25 team and beat those teams even with his and below his.  Then his last 5 years that started to change. Though the Cats did go 2-7 vs Top 10 teams, we were only 1-7 vs teams ranked 11-25 and lost 11 games to unranked teams. 

That's why I said winning "winnable" games is our first step.  Right now we should consider games against unranked teams winnable.  We'll likely be 0-4 against ranked teams, and while that is frustrating, it doesn't define Prince's first season.  What does define it is surpassing the trend of losing games to unranked teams, and we lost 8 of those Snyder's last 2 seasons alone, after losing only 5 the previous 11 seasons.  If Prince can go 7-1 or 6-2 vs unranked teams that IMO will be a sign that we're beginning to reverse the trend of losing games that we "should win" if we want to get back to being a Top 25 team and in the top half of the north. 

[cireksu]

That's a good way to look at it fan.  I still think that we beat ISU, I wish CU was at home.

[McGrowlTowelZac]

I will only be severely dissappointed if we don't make a bowl, or if we just get embarressed down the stretch by remaining teams on the schedule. 

6-6 would be good, and 7-5 would be great. 

I would really like the offense to make some progress in the next 4 games as well.  Would go a long way for building confidence next year

[Andy]

totally agree with ksufan's assessment on winning the winnable.  that is the line that separates below average programs from above average programs. 

sounds like from these posts that we could use a moral victory (MV) against texas, in addition to two more wins.  we really haven't been competitive against good-great teams.  that probably is asking a lot this year though considering the past 2 seasons.

[coitus]

fan should have his own threads that no one else is allowed to post in.

why taint his perfection?

[kougar24]

I don't see how you can possibly call Prince overrated yet. First, how high did we "rate" him? And secondly, he's not even through his first season yet.

We're about exactly where I thought we'd be at this point. I'm neither pleased nor disappointed.

[Dan Rydell]

I don't see how you can possibly call Prince overrated yet.

I would say that there's a certain expectation that goes along with hiring an offensive line coach and offensive coordinator as your head coach.  When those two areas are then by far the weakest parts of your team, it's fair to say that the hire was overrated.

We're actually ahead of where I thought we'd be at this part.  I'm not talking about my expectations, though.  I'm talking about the folks who expected this coach to take this talent and have a legitimate shot at winning the North this year.  A lot of them are the ones who are now melting down.

[cireksu]

" I'm talking about the folks who expected this coach to take this talent and have a legitimate shot at winning the North this year.  A lot of them are the ones who are now melting down."

Yup.

I spend a lot of time on boards and I remember most fans predicting that we had a good shot at going to a bowl and at the very worst case 4-5 games.  Well here we are.  I don't understand the meltdown.

[coitus]

I don't understand the meltdown.

bitches bitch.

they bitch about being called out for bitching.

they even bitch about being called bitches.

it has something to do with excess estrogen.