KSUFans Archives
Sports => Frank Martin's OOD sponsored by the "Angriest Fans in America" => Topic started by: fatty fat fat on March 23, 2007, 10:12:38 PM
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why did Huggins suck in the NCAA tournament?
I'm guessing cincy was a tad overrated because they played in that crap conference and just dominated until they played legit competition.
right?///wrong??
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Yeah, not being tested in the conference hurt, but for some reasons Calipari is doing okay.
If you look back, they had some really bad breaks in those second round games. WVU threw up a prayer at the buzzer that doesn't go in if our guy doesn't tip it. Iowa State got us on a turnover late, Tulsa got them because no Kenyon. Kentucky was just better.
They lost to Illinois and UCLA as well as both those teams were HOT.
A lot of times we would get a really nice seed, but we would get sent out west to make up for it.
And I don't know if you can say he "sucks". He does have a winning record and has been to a Final 4, 2 Elite 8's, and a Sweet 16
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Ahh the UCLA game...That had to be one of the toughest games to watch. Was that double OT or not?
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He gets the sucks part from the fact that Huggs has never beat a team seeded higher than him in the Tourney. But don't worry about it, Fatty goes on a pessimistic (realistic) tirade every now and then. He'll be over it by tomorrow...
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it's alright, we'll be a #1 seed in the tourney next year, and we'll win the NC, and i'll be happy, and cinci fans can sleep easy knowing that huggy did get his NC
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Ahh the UCLA game...That had to be one of the toughest games to watch. Was that double OT or not?
Yeah. Kapono went crazy. It was Logan's last game
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Despite what most folks believe, Cinci never did have all that great of talent. Sure, there were some high profile kids that did go through the program, but they were few and far between. Huggins had a very hard time getting top-notch talent to head to a university that was located smack dab in a ghetto. The only kids that felt comfortable there were kids that were also from a ghetto. And since Huggs did get Cinci to overachieve and run amuck in a mid-major conference, they always had a glittering record and got very high NCAA seeds for that reason. So now combine a higher than deserved seed with less than superb talent going up against teams that should have been seeded higher and that have superior talent, and the rest is history...
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Good point Snart. A lot of recruit parents were also concern about the location of the school, and that is why UC lost out on a lot of top recruits. KSU could be the ideal place for recruits to focus on education and basketball. Now! Huggins is able to recruit not at risk players to KSU and thats a good thing.
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The most rewarding thing was Huggs giving guys a second chance and see them florish. I hope he doesn't get away from that
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The most rewarding thing was Huggs giving guys a second chance and see them florish. I hope he doesn't get away from that
I think he's doing that with Evans who will be here next year most likely.
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Despite what most folks believe, Cinci never did have all that great of talent. Sure, there were some high profile kids that did go through the program, but they were few and far between. Huggins had a very hard time getting top-notch talent to head to a university that was located smack dab in a ghetto. The only kids that felt comfortable there were kids that were also from a ghetto. And since Huggs did get Cinci to overachieve and run amuck in a mid-major conference, they always had a glittering record and got very high NCAA seeds for that reason. So now combine a higher than deserved seed with less than superb talent going up against teams that should have been seeded higher and that have superior talent, and the rest is history...
MCMW?
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The most rewarding thing was Huggs giving guys a second chance and see them florish. I hope he doesn't get away from that
Huggs also got burned by several of those players conduct after he gave them that second (or third) chance. I hope that part of the cycle doesn't return!
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When you have limited talent and particularly limited depth the matchups you get in the first or second round make a huge difference. If you look at the history of UC in the tourney under Huggins, unlike some of the more favorable elite teams, Huggins was never given a "luck of the draw" matchup. The UC opponents were picked, regardless of seed, for the tough matchup they would be for Huggins. It very easy to subtly be bias against a team or teams in the selections, seeds, regional selections and early matchups.
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As Snart said, UC's talent level was not that high. In 16 years, there were only 5 MDAA's. 3 of whom played a combined 4 years. The others were Damon Flintwho had just an average career and was mainly a defensive player and Danny Fortson who had 3 really good years. But yes, his teams were still good enough and shouldve gone farther in the tournament than they did. Bad luck was certainly a factor, when you have one player from WVU hitting a 30 ft bank 3, in another game vs. ISU you had one of the worst calls(ISU player shoves(with both hands) Darnell Burton, and ref calls travel?) Ive ever seen that caused ISU to win it. Temple was a really bad matchup in the 99 year. Then in 2000 they had one of the worst breaks(literally) of all time when Martin went down right before the tournament. That was by far Huggs most championship poised team and losing 20 pts 10 reb 4 blks and the heart and soul leader of the team right before the NCAAs is too much to overcome. In 2002 they were a #1 seed, but lost in 2OT to a more talented UCLA team(preseason top 10). They still shouldve beaten them, and theres no excuse for that one. For the most part though, his teams didnt play their best basketball in the tournament. He did have a 21-14 record in the tournament, which isnt bad, but not as good as it shouldve been. Theres no real science to it, Im convinced Huggs luck will turn.
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Will Huggins be able to handle the increased talent? Walker took a ton of dumb shots, and still continued to play.
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The kids HAVE to buy into him as a coach. I think Walker will, Beasley worries me though.
Dermarr Johnson and Danny Fortson both listened to him and they were probably the most hyped guys he has had besides maybe Wingfield
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The kids HAVE to buy into him as a coach. I think Walker will, Beasley worries me though.
Dermarr Johnson and Danny Fortson both listened to him and they were probably the most hyped guys he has had besides maybe Wingfield
I agree, Beasley scares me a bit. Walker came to play for Huggins, while Mike is coming for Hill. Hopefully MB understands he has to play for Huggs not Hill. Also, the way Huggs treated Billy was so different than Ie ever seen him treat a player. Even Danny, Dermarr, ect at UC. Ive never seen a freshman get so much leeway. Maybe he was just hoping he could catch him up to speed as fast as possible and get him in game condition? I thought there were times where he was bringing the team down, and of course times where he was dominating as well.
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The kids HAVE to buy into him as a coach. I think Walker will, Beasley worries me though.
Dermarr Johnson and Danny Fortson both listened to him and they were probably the most hyped guys he has had besides maybe Wingfield
I agree, Beasley scares me a bit. Walker came to play for Huggins, while Mike is coming for Hill. Hopefully MB understands he has to play for Huggs not Hill. Also, the way Huggs treated Billy was so different than Ie ever seen him treat a player. Even Danny, Dermarr, ect at UC. Ive never seen a freshman get so much leeway. Maybe he was just hoping he could catch him up to speed as fast as possible and get him in game condition? I thought there were times where he was bringing the team down, and of course times where he was dominating as well.
If Hill has bought into Huggins, then it should help Beasley do the same. Regardless of whether or not he buys in, he's going to help the team out a ton. If he buys in like Cartier...wow. POY.
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Huggs probably wouldn't have let Bill off so easily during conference play. Unfortunately we never were able to find out...
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only because i am too lazy, but when was the last time the Chickenhawks beat a higher ranked team in the NCAAs? What's their record look like over the last 15 years against higher ranked teams?
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Huggins had a very hard time getting top-notch talent to head to a university that was located smack dab in a ghetto. The only kids that felt comfortable there were kids that were also from a ghetto.
Is Cincy really in that bad of a neighborhood? Is there anyone that compare it to a neighborhood in KC or Wichita State's neighborhood?
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Is Cincy really in that bad of a neighborhood? Is there anyone that compare it to a neighborhood in KC or Wichita State's neighborhood?
No, it isn't. I don't have a good point of reference. There are some neighborhoods in the immediate vicinity that are a little sketchy, but they're not terrible - not the worst parts of town by any stretch. There is an extremely nice area to the north. And, as with most universities, there's quite a bit of student housing. A recruit would never see the sketchy neighborhoods if they weren't included in the campus tour.
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Is Cincy really in that bad of a neighborhood? Is there anyone that compare it to a neighborhood in KC or Wichita State's neighborhood?
It’s pretty bad. It is not the worse neighborhood in Cincinnati that would be the ‘Over the Rhine’ neighborhood which is about 2-3 miles straight toward Cincinnati as UC and located on the same street but there is a lot of crime, drug dealers, hookers, hold-ups, break-ins, and an occasional mugging that seems to be reported on daily in Clifton. I have already made it perfectly clear to my daughter that under no circumstances will I allow her to go to either UC or Xavier (also located in a bad neighborhood).
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Is Cincy really in that bad of a neighborhood? Is there anyone that compare it to a neighborhood in KC or Wichita State's neighborhood?
It’s pretty bad. It is not the worse neighborhood in Cincinnati that would be the ‘Over the Rhine’ neighborhood which is about 2-3 miles straight toward Cincinnati as UC and located on the same street but there is a lot of crime, drug dealers, hookers, hold-ups, break-ins, and an occasional mugging that seems to be reported on daily in Clifton. I have already made it perfectly clear to my daughter that under no circumstances will I allow her to go to either UC or Xavier (also located in a bad neighborhood).
Send her to Nku
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Nku is a great school. And located in a safe location too. And with very reasonable tuition, although it’s a bit more pricey for out-of-state students.
She wants to go to Miami, which is also a very good choice although it too a bit pricey even for in-state students. But since she has a 4.0 GPA and a great SAT score I am hoping she gets a scholarship. My finger are crossed anyway...
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drug dealers, hookers, hold-ups, break-ins, and an occasional mugging that seems to be reported on daily in Clifton
This seems like a bit of an exaggeration to me.
I have already made it perfectly clear to my daughter that under no circumstances will I allow her to go to either UC
I'd let my daughter go to UC and live in a dorm or some of those nice looking new apartments just off campus.
Overall, given the variety of responses, you can tell that it's not as bad as advertised.
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Nku is a great school. And located in a safe location too. And with very reasonable tuition, although it’s a bit more pricey for out-of-state students.
She wants to go to Miami, which is also a very good choice although it too a bit pricey even for in-state students. But since she has a 4.0 GPA and a great SAT score I am hoping she gets a scholarship. My finger are crossed anyway...
I'm a Nku alum, and my brother is a Miami grad. Can't go wrong either way
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I was curious. Clifton ranks #14 of 53 Cincinnati neighborhoods in police calls made in 2006 with 7,195. Over The Rhine ranks #1 with 21,975. And the affluent Hyde Park ranks #26 with 4,105.
Neighborhood Calls Murder Rape Robbery Agg Assault Burglary Larceny Auto Theft
Over-the-Rhine 21,975 9 23 264 119 216 800 148
Westwood 21,227 3 29 164 66 526 1,301 303
East Price Hill 16,985 1 24 131 49 463 660 136
CBD/Riverfront 16,924 2 11 145 38 124 1,161 89
West Price Hill 15,446 1 24 100 40 383 604 135
Avondale 14,279 4 11 151 95 224 580 126
West End 12,817 3 15 88 75 127 350 112
Walnut Hills 12,751 12 15 100 65 294 677 145
Northside 11,576 2 8 88 55 233 477 101
College Hill 8,599 2 9 65 28 193 253 87
Madisonville 8,548 0 5 60 22 126 243 83
Evanston 8,202 0 9 44 43 160 239 64
Bond Hill 7,460 6 7 44 31 104 178 82
Clifton 7,195 2 18 58 13 129 423 55
South Fairmount 7,161 1 7 55 23 187 254 115
Mt. Airy 7,005 3 7 49 27 150 224 108
Fairview 6,811 1 6 78 15 167 376 44
Mt. Auburn 6,263 0 5 28 29 108 266 85
Oakley 6,154 1 6 41 4 96 565 48
North Avondale 5,895 3 8 48 21 122 179 77
Roselawn 5,752 4 7 52 21 88 256 72
Clifton/University Hts 5,341 2 10 35 9 142 235 52
Camp Washington 4,588 0 6 20 9 69 147 36
Winton Hills 4,548 2 7 49 29 114 101 84
Mt. Washington 4,424 1 2 15 9 67 281 41
Hyde Park 4,105 1 3 17 2 92 330 18
Pleasant Ridge 3,868 0 3 18 12 72 195 53
Queensgate 3,619 1 3 14 4 22 159 27
Lower Price Hill 3,562 0 3 19 10 65 96 21
http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/police/downloads/police_pdf15588.pdf (http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/police/downloads/police_pdf15588.pdf)
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The neighborhood itself is not as bad as Snart makes it. I lived at UC for a year so I would know. There are some pretty rundown areas surrounding the campus, but nothing that you wouldnt get at any inner city school. The campus is safe as hell too, as they have cops and those blue light thingys all over the place.
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7,195 police calls, 2 murders, 18 rapes, 58 robberies, 13 muggings, 129 break-ins, 423 larcenies, and 55 cars stolen? All within a four square mile area! Since I live in Mason maybe it is just perspective, but I think that that is a lot of crime. Mason has had one murder in the last 10 years, and I think there was a rape 4 or 5 years ago, and I’m sure a car gets stolen every now and then. But that's why I chose to live in Mason rather than Cincinnati...
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7,195 police calls, 2 murders, 18 rapes, 58 robberies, 13 muggings, 129 break-ins, 423 larcenies, and 55 cars stolen? All within a four square mile area! Since I live in Mason maybe it is just perspective, but I think that that is a lot of crime. Mason has had one murder in the last 10 years, and I think there was a rape 4 or 5 years ago, and I’m sure a car gets stolen every now and then. But that's why I chose to live in Mason rather than Cincinnati...
And to think, 63% of that was caused by the UC basketball team!
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;)
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The kids HAVE to buy into him as a coach. I think Walker will, Beasley worries me though.
Dermarr Johnson and Danny Fortson both listened to him and they were probably the most hyped guys he has had besides maybe Wingfield
I agree, Beasley scares me a bit. Walker came to play for Huggins, while Mike is coming for Hill. Hopefully MB understands he has to play for Huggs not Hill. Also, the way Huggs treated Billy was so different than Ie ever seen him treat a player. Even Danny, Dermarr, ect at UC. Ive never seen a freshman get so much leeway. Maybe he was just hoping he could catch him up to speed as fast as possible and get him in game condition? I thought there were times where he was bringing the team down, and of course times where he was dominating as well.
If Hill has bought into Huggins, then it should help Beasley do the same. Regardless of whether or not he buys in, he's going to help the team out a ton. If he buys in like Cartier...wow. POY.
There seems to be some worry about B-Easy's ego & trashtalking...Yet, we hear all these reports about how he's just such a goofy, good-natured kid too. I'm quite sure Mike will buy in--and if his ego starts to become an obstacle, Huggs will smash it in short order. Having said that, I don't know how much of a problem it'll be. Everything I've heard about him, from personality to ability, has glowed. Oh, and I also have a crush on MOMBEASY :thumbsup:
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7,195 police calls, 2 murders, 18 rapes, 58 robberies, 13 muggings, 129 break-ins, 423 larcenies, and 55 cars stolen? All within a four square mile area! Since I live in Mason maybe it is just perspective, but I think that that is a lot of crime. Mason has had one murder in the last 10 years, and I think there was a rape 4 or 5 years ago, and I’m sure a car gets stolen every now and then. But that's why I chose to live in Mason rather than Cincinnati...
Nice. I think you conceded the point when you demonstrated that viewing the entire city as a ghetto is a fundamental aspect of your position.
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But don't worry about it, Fatty goes on a pessimistic (realistic) tirade every now and then. He'll be over it by tomorrow...
That or he has nothing to do/not taking enough hours in college to warrant graduating during this decade....
:thumbsup: :lol:
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Sounds like maybe Cincy is comparable to UMKC in terms of location/crime? There are some surrounding locations where the occasional mugging occurs and where maybe you don't want to wander around late at night, and if you head in a particular direction a couple of miles (in UMKC's case, east) the crime rate really increases, but the campus itself is pretty safe.
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Sounds like maybe Cincy is comparable to UMKC in terms of location/crime? There are some surrounding locations where the occasional mugging occurs and where maybe you don't want to wander around late at night, and if you head in a particular direction a couple of miles (in UMKC's case, east) the crime rate really increases, but the campus itself is pretty safe.
Half of UMKC's roster is small-town/suburban kids. And UMKC is basically bordered by the most expensive real estate in Kansas City on two or three sides (if you count the Plaza).