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Sports => Frank Martin's OOD sponsored by the "Angriest Fans in America" => Topic started by: The Manhatter on November 22, 2009, 07:50:48 PM

Title: Jamar...
Post by: The Manhatter on November 22, 2009, 07:50:48 PM
it's called leadership...this team needs a few leaders to demonstrate killer instinct.  Too bad we didn't turn big Lou on them too.

Now that we don't need minutes from Lou why don't we arm him w/ something that has little resistance and have him crack over the head a certain dorky looking crew cut haircutted center for a team to the east?

Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: PowercatPat on November 22, 2009, 07:54:43 PM
Jamar has been impressive so far this season. He made a lot of stupid fouls tonight though. The technical foul could have cost us the game.
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: sys on November 22, 2009, 08:13:38 PM
The technical foul could have cost us the game.

it didn't, and samuels knew it wouldn't.
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: 1albatross on November 22, 2009, 09:29:53 PM
The technical foul could have cost us the game.

it didn't, and samuels knew it wouldn't.

Sorry Sys.  Your wrong on this one.  He just didn't think he would get caught.

It was a stupid move and he should have been thrown out of the game.
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: catzacker on November 22, 2009, 09:36:44 PM
The technical foul could have cost us the game.

it didn't, and samuels knew it wouldn't.

Sorry Sys.  Your wrong on this one.  He just didn't think he would get caught.

It was a stupid move and he should have been thrown out of the game.

stupid? yes, for getting caught.  thrown out?  no.  not at all.  and I hope martin doesn't supend him for the IUPUI game either. 
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: doom on November 22, 2009, 09:40:17 PM
Would be weird since he was caught in game and not ejected.   
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: 1albatross on November 22, 2009, 09:44:18 PM
I may be over-reacting a bit b/c it wasn't that hard, but it was obviously intentional.

He did realize he made a mistake and apologized so I doubt he gets suspended for a game by Frank, but I do think he might have to do a little extra "conditioning".
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: chum1 on November 22, 2009, 09:46:02 PM
Did they really call it based on a replay?  Doesn't seem like something that would be reviewable by replay.
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: 1albatross on November 22, 2009, 10:02:09 PM
I think a jump ball was called.  They can review "fights" and flagrant fouls in replay  to figure out who was at fault and to figure out what action to take.

Very minor when if you compare it to something like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxnCY0CZ1pE&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxnCY0CZ1pE&NR=1)
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: mikeycat on November 22, 2009, 10:11:35 PM
 bush league.   Frank should have sat him on the bench after that, but I'm betting JamSam told him it was accidental.   But after Frank sees the video, JamSam will wake up with a horse's hed in his bed.
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: ksu_FAN on November 22, 2009, 10:18:18 PM
bush league.   Frank should have sat him on the bench after that, but I'm betting JamSam told him it was accidental.   But after Frank sees the video, JamSam will wake up with a horse's hed in his bed.

Yeah, I doubt he'll play Saturday.  Frank will not be happy with this one.
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: sys on November 22, 2009, 10:19:00 PM
He just didn't think he would get caught.

yep, we're in agreement.  just poor luck to be seen.  not likely the refs will catch that move very often.
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: Oklahoma_Cat on November 22, 2009, 10:53:44 PM
not a big deal at all.  you "he should sit" people are lame. 
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: PCR on November 22, 2009, 11:24:12 PM
Meh.  Sportsmanship is overrated anyway. 

Maybe somebody should tell JamSam that the games are broadcast on television. 
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: WillieWannabe on November 22, 2009, 11:26:58 PM
lols i love how Frank brought him off the bench, chewed his ass, then sent him into the game.
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: Houcat on November 22, 2009, 11:29:43 PM
Slam Jam Kick in the Head (http://www.justin.tv/clip/73a15c27c1c39b92)
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: nicname on November 23, 2009, 02:31:12 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AwYVTB2rZw&feature=PlayList&p=D054071958CFDBB8&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=24
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: doom on November 23, 2009, 06:18:51 AM
After watching this incident several times I'm more and more furious.  I don't care that he kicked him, but where the &@#% were you passing that ball, Jamar?  I say bench him for the awful pass.
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: ksu_FAN on November 23, 2009, 07:23:37 AM
After watching this incident several times I'm more and more furious.  I don't care that he kicked him, but where the frack were you passing that ball, Jamar?  I say bench him for the awful pass.

This.  He had a TO the possession before trying to force a pass.  He was pretty much the main reason the lead from 9 to 4 with a span of 2 possessions.  And he also missed 2 FTS and gave up an offensive rebound after that.  I understand why Frank kept him in, he was playing much better than Kelly, but he didn't play well down the stretch.

And I'm not necessarily saying he should sit a game or 2, but I think Frank will sit him after he sees the video. 
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: ksutwisted on November 23, 2009, 08:53:40 AM
It would be sweet if Frank benched him for IUPUI AND Fort Hays State.  Not that I think the play warrants a suspension...  but suspending a player for two easy games seems like something 'elite' schools would do.  Show that we're committed to discipline when the schedule allows it.
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: Belvis Noland on November 23, 2009, 09:52:35 AM
Jamar almost lost that game for us, single-handedly.  WTF is wrong with that guy? 


We've got a 10 point lead with about 5 minutes.  Everything looks great.  Then Jamar loses his f*ing mind in 4 straight possessions. 

Possession 1:  Takes the ball in strong, gets fouled.  Misses both free throws.  Fortunately second throw knocked out of bounds off Dayton.

Possession 2:  Throws the ball away on inbound pass.

Possession 3:  Travels (no-call), throws the ball away, fails to grab loose ball, kicks opposing player in the face. 

Possession 4:  Gets fouled.  Makes 1-2 free throws. 

Meanwhile, Dayton goes on an 8-1 run and the lead goes from 10 - 3 in about 1.5 minutes.   

Couple of thoughts.  1) why is he still in the game after 2 straight turnovers.  And a face kick. 

2) wtf is Jamar thinking? 

3) when will Jamar learn to shoot free throws?

4) when will Jamar learn to absorb contact and get off a decent shot even when fouled?  I've noticed that whenever he takes it inside and attempts a shot, his arms are flailing wildly and the ball goes flying nowhere near the basket.  Been watching this for two years now.  And most of the time, the fouls are not extraordinarily hard. 

I know I'm being hyper-critical, but I've seen us lose far too many games because of low bball IQ.  For all intents and purposes, we could have lost last night's game because of this stupidity.   
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: ksu_FAN on November 23, 2009, 09:56:01 AM
I would guess Jamar gets yelled at when they watch film after that one.  Like a lot.

And he shot FTs better as the season went along last year.
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: Belvis Noland on November 23, 2009, 09:59:50 AM

And he shot FTs better as the season went along last year.

I understand why freshmen improve as the season progresses.  Don't understand why he has the same struggles as a sophomore. 
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: ksu_FAN on November 23, 2009, 10:06:46 AM

And he shot FTs better as the season went along last year.

I understand why freshmen improve as the season progresses.  Don't understand why he has the same struggles as a sophomore. 

True. 

He's still at about 60%, which is better than he shot overall last year.  I'd say he'll probably end up being about a 60% shooter from the line, so he's not far off.  He'll just have games like yesterday followed by a game where he's 7 of 8 or something.  He's just inconsistent game to game.
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: sys on November 23, 2009, 10:07:44 AM
ft shooting is hard, you dumbass old fat internet people.
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: hemmy on November 23, 2009, 10:11:08 AM
Once at the rec I was bored and shot 80 FTs.  Hit like 73%
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: sys on November 23, 2009, 10:39:44 AM
Once at the rec I was bored and shot 80 FTs.  Hit like 73%

that translates to about 25% in a game situ.
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: Belvis Noland on November 23, 2009, 10:43:13 AM

He's still at about 60%, which is better than he shot overall last year.  I'd say he'll probably end up being about a 60% shooter from the line, so he's not far off. 

Wow, that's horrible.  I didn't realize his % was that low.  I assumed he was around the 70-75% range.  It's a shame. 
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: michigancat on November 23, 2009, 10:52:44 AM
You know who always shoots free throws well?  white guys.
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: sys on November 23, 2009, 10:57:55 AM
You know who always shoots free throws well?  white guys.

guards.


shocking how guys that can't hit jumpshots also can't hit fts.  & viceversa.
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: cireksu on November 23, 2009, 11:17:45 AM
You know who always shoots free throws well?  white guys.

That's becaus black dudes work on 'oops and sweet jams.
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: ksu_FAN on November 23, 2009, 11:18:15 AM
You know who always shoots free throws well?  white guys.

guards.


shocking how guys that can't hit jumpshots also can't hit fts.  & viceversa.

Cole can shoot 'em.  I suppose being white offsets not being a guard.
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: Belvis Noland on November 23, 2009, 11:25:05 AM

shocking how guys that can't hit jumpshots also can't hit fts.  & viceversa.


It's shocking how ludicrous this statement is.  First, Jamar has shown that he can hit from outside.  He's hit from behind the arc on various occassions this year.  Watched him shoot about 50-75 threes during the open practice before the CU game as well. 

Second, forwards and big men routinely shoot high FT%.  Not going to give examples because it is so obvious. 

Regardless of a player's position, If he's dog sh*t from the field, he'll probably be the same from the line.  I'd agree with you if that was your point.  But is wasn't.   

Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: ksu_FAN on November 23, 2009, 11:28:46 AM
Good post (especially the stats) from GP:

Quote
For those of you so quick to say that FT shooting in the modern era is a symptom of how the game has devolved - I submit to you the following stat:

In Frank's first 2 years, the team has shot .667 from the FT line.

Tex Winter's teams shot .682 in 15 years (and had 9 seasons below the .667 mark)

Cotton Fitzsimmons had 2 teams, both of whom only shot 65%.

Hartman's teams were much better at 72% overall - but he had 4 teams that shot below the 66.7% mark as well.

So - what can we take from this? Humans have ALWAYS been crappy FT shooters. Or maybe it's NEVER been as easy to shoot FTs after running up and down the court for 40 minutes as some joke behind a computer screen thinks.

Regardless, quit acting like it is some new phenomenon that is symptomatic of the modern player. It makes you look like an ignorant douche.
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: ksu_FAN on November 23, 2009, 11:32:10 AM
More on FTs. (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/04/sports/basketball/04freethrow.html?_r=1)

Can we please end this stupid notion that bad FTing is some new development b/c guys just work on dunks and threes?

You are just going to have bad FT shooters on your team.  If Jam-Sam could somehow raise up to 65% I'd be estatic. 
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: sys on November 23, 2009, 11:57:28 AM
It's shocking how ludicrous this statement is.  First, Jamar has shown that he can hit from outside.  He's hit from behind the arc on various occassions this year.  Watched him shoot about 50-75 threes during the open practice before the CU game as well. 

Second, forwards and big men routinely shoot high FT%.  Not going to give examples because it is so obvious. 

Regardless of a player's position, If he's dog sh*t from the field, he'll probably be the same from the line.  I'd agree with you if that was your point.  But is wasn't.   

that was exactly my point.


almost all guards can hit fts, because almost all guards can shoot.  most college bigs don't shoot fts well because most college bigs can't shoot.

lol @ you using samuels' 3 pt% from 5 games as an argument btw.  it is unlikely that he shoots a high % from 3 for the year.  i can tell because of his poor ft% last year.

he's still young enough that it isn't impossible for his shooting to significantly improve.  what is all but impossible is for his 3 pt% to improve without his ft% rising as well.
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: Skycat on November 23, 2009, 11:58:46 AM
Frank should teach the granny shot.  GoPowercatters would love that.

Also, the worst part of "The Kick" is that it delayed the game just long enough for my DVR to miss the last 30 or so seconds.  It ended with us up 4 and Dayton taking an open 3.

Did we win? :ohno:
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: doom on November 23, 2009, 12:07:36 PM
Frank should teach the granny shot.  GoPowercatters would love that.

Also, the worst part of "The Kick" is that it delayed the game just long enough for my DVR to miss the last 30 or so seconds.  It ended with us up 4 and Dayton taking an open 3.

Did we win? :ohno:

by like ninety.   :ksu:
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: Skycat on November 23, 2009, 12:09:10 PM
 :WeirdRobert:
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: michigancat on November 23, 2009, 12:16:35 PM
You know who always shoots free throws well?  white guys.

guards.


shocking how guys that can't hit jumpshots also can't hit fts.  & viceversa.

Cole can shoot 'em.  I suppose being white offsets not being a guard.

shooting 61% this year.  sucky.

More thoughts:

Quote
taller players are worse free throw shooters. This shouldn’t be a surprise in itself, but at least now it’s quantified.

http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/shooting_and_height/


Also:

http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/back_in_the_lab/
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: Belvis Noland on November 23, 2009, 01:12:47 PM
Look, Jamar isn't that tall.  Probably 6'7.  very average sized small forward.  I've seen him shoot without a hand in his face (ie open practice) and he has a nice shot.  Frank has even commented that Jamar worked very hard on his perimeter game in the offseason.  The guy probably looked at Kelly and Judge and saw that the writing was on the wall.  Become an outside threat or become Ron Anderson. 

There is absolutely no reason why he should be shooting 60% from the line.  At the same time, I don't expect him to shoot +85% from the line either.   

At the end of the day, however, I agree with ksu_fan.  We're going to have bad FT shooters.  It's just unfortunate because we will lose some games this year because of poor FT shooting. 

Also, I hate bashing Jamar, because I really like how he's played thus far.  He also seems like a nice guy off the court.  That is why I was so stunned with his performance last night.  Complete 180. 
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: ksu_FAN on November 23, 2009, 01:22:56 PM
Look, Jamar isn't that tall.  Probably 6'7.  very average sized small forward.  I've seen him shoot without a hand in his face (ie open practice) and he has a nice shot.  Frank has even commented that Jamar worked very hard on his perimeter game in the offseason.  The guy probably looked at Kelly and Judge and saw that the writing was on the wall.  Become an outside threat or become Ron Anderson. 

There is absolutely no reason why he should be shooting 60% from the line.  At the same time, I don't expect him to shoot +85% from the line either.   

At the end of the day, however, I agree with ksu_fan.  We're going to have bad FT shooters.  It's just unfortunate because we will lose some games this year because of poor FT shooting. 

Also, I hate bashing Jamar, because I really like how he's played thus far.  He also seems like a nice guy off the court.  That is why I was so stunned with his performance last night.  Complete 180. 

Good points.

On Jamar's FTs, I think he can get better.  Hopefully up to 65% this year, maybe to 70% or so by the time he's a SR.  And he needs to get better b/c he will get fouled a lot.

As far as the incident, I think he was more ticked at himself.  He had just turned the ball over for the 2nd time in two trips in a fairly tight game and I think he just reacted out of frustration.  It was a bad reaction.
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: doom on November 23, 2009, 01:24:04 PM
Look, Jamar isn't that tall.  Probably 6'7.  very average sized small forward.  I've seen him shoot without a hand in his face (ie open practice) and he has a nice shot.  Frank has even commented that Jamar worked very hard on his perimeter game in the offseason.  The guy probably looked at Kelly and Judge and saw that the writing was on the wall.  Become an outside threat or become Ron Anderson. 

There is absolutely no reason why he should be shooting 60% from the line.  At the same time, I don't expect him to shoot +85% from the line either.   

At the end of the day, however, I agree with ksu_fan.  We're going to have bad FT shooters.  It's just unfortunate because we will lose some games this year because of poor FT shooting. 

Also, I hate bashing Jamar, because I really like how he's played thus far.  He also seems like a nice guy off the court.  That is why I was so stunned with his performance last night.  Complete 180. 

Isn't his average up 5-10%?
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: Belvis Noland on November 23, 2009, 02:32:13 PM

Isn't his average up 5-10%?


'08-'09:  57% (97-171)
'09-'10:  61% (13-22)

Jamar should be working hard on his FT shooting.  Because in 08-09 he shot 50 more FTs than the next closest player (Pullen).  He'll be shooting a ton of 'em this year as well.  It would be one thing if he was a poor shooter.  But I've seen enough of him to know that this isn't the case.

We're shooting 60% FT as a team.  FWIW.
 
Title: Re: Jamar...
Post by: catzacker on November 23, 2009, 02:45:57 PM
I think some ksu'ers remember Steve Henson's FT shooting as if everyone from that era or before shot'em like that.