KSUFans Archives
Sports => Snyder's Electronic Cyber Space World => Topic started by: ksuno1stunner on October 16, 2006, 11:06:49 PM
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anybody agree? i'm now in the wait-and-see crowd
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I think we still have a good shot at 6 wins. Freeman is a stud, no doubt. He may struggle on the road next week, but I think overall he will help us win two more games.
I just want a bowl game this year to build off of, it would mean alot for this team.
As far as Prince goes, I think it is too early to tell. But he has both positives and negatives. He is a 1st year head coach afterall
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I'm in the Prince camp. Josh is a stud. We will continue to get better with or without a bowl this year. Losing is no fun, but when you realize that things should get better you find yourself focusing on the positives. KSU is definitly doing some things right. At least we can identiify the weak link! OL baby and the inexperience of Freshman, even if they are Freshmen with talent!! :woohoo: :woohoo: :ksu: :ksu:
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get 6 wins, and no one should complain.
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I've been a supporter and believer since the hire. Probably one of the few but I also know him outside of just being the new football coach.
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anybody agree? i'm now in the wait-and-see crowd
I agree. I just want to see the OL develop. I've been pretty happy w/ everything else, considering we have a 1st year coach.
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I'm holding out hope that we can actually expect a better record once we get more of Snyder's lazy players out the door. For how long are people going to continue to make excuses for our lousy offensive linemen? They aren't getting any better. If their replacements aren't any good either, we're screwed.
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I would just like to see the Offense actually improve. That OL is horrid.
I'm guessing KSU will become one of those teams that goes 6-5 or 7-4 (11 game seasons) most every year...just "decent"..but inconsistent.
It blows my mind how mediocre the Big 12 North has become.
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anybody agree? i'm now in the wait-and-see crowd
I'm in the wait and see crowd. Freeman and Patton are the only reason I have any hope for the offense. The defense will be fine this year and next, after that who knows.
All I know is that we're an Eddie Fogler away from having nothing to hang our hat on as a university.
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I would just like to see the Offense actually improve. That OL is horrid.
I'm guessing KSU will become one of those teams that goes 6-5 or 7-4 (11 game seasons) most every year...just "decent"..but inconsistent.
It blows my mind how mediocre the Big 12 North has become.
If they hold onto Raheem, I can see them developing a consistantly dominant defense...which could cover up for offensive shortcomings and keep them less mediocre.
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My guess is Raheem won't be here a whole lot longer. If he likes recruiting...maybe.
Should be interesting to see.
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I think there are reasons to have some optimism for the future. I do agree with NATION that I see Prince turning this into a program where we consistently win around 7 games then pop up and challenge for a north title now and then, along the lines of what Leach has done at Texas Tech. I think we got spoiled by what Snyder did in the late 90s though and if that is the case I'm anxious to see how our fans handle it.
I do want to see more development on the offensive side of the ball, and I'm assuming at this point that the combination of a new scheme, young personel, and a suspect OL are the reasons that we've kept things so simple thus far. I think this team has a good shot at 2 more wins and a bowl game, but we're going to have to have some defensive/ST scores and an offense that at that least doesn't turn the ball over to do that along with at least approaching the 70% mark for redzone scores. ISU is very beatable and ku will be a battle. The other promising game is at CU. Get 2 out of 3 wins there and go bowling and I think you've got to call Prince's first season a success.
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My guess is Raheem won't be here a whole lot longer. If he likes recruiting...maybe.
Should be interesting to see.
Give him a lot of $$$$$$$$$$, even though it wouldn't make much sense for him to leave for a couple of years.
He will be limited to an NFL position coach or a DC at a handful of schools, who wouldn't likely hire someone with his relative inexperience.
Is an NFL position coach that much better than a BCS coordinator? Doubtful.
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If Nebraska is the "best" the Big 12 North has to offer .... wow, the Big 12 North sucks.
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I think we got spoiled by what Snyder did in the late 90s though and if that is the case I'm anxious to see how our fans handle it.
Since we couldn't sell out consistently when we were winning 11 games a season, I'd put my money on the fans not supporting "only" going 7-5 and going to the Independence Bowl every year. Prince f-ing lucked out that his third choice for DC is damn near carrying this football team. Although I will give Prince credit for hiring a special teams coach.
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I think we got spoiled by what Snyder did in the late 90s though and if that is the case I'm anxious to see how our fans handle it.
Since we couldn't sell out consistently when we were winning 11 games a season, I'd put my money on the fans not supporting "only" going 7-5 and going to the Independence Bowl every year. Prince f-ing lucked out that his third choice for DC is damn near carrying this football team. Although I will give Prince credit for hiring a special teams coach.
I think KSU will consistently have a solid base of 43k or so...it's so ingrained in what people do now...it's the last 5-6 thousand that will come and go.
Prince really lucked out with Morris...choice #2's defense is giving up 36 ppg and 392 ypg.
http://tarheelblue.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2006-2007/teamcume.html
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My guess is Raheem won't be here a whole lot longer. If he likes recruiting...maybe.
Should be interesting to see.
Give him a lot of $$$$$$$$$$, even though it wouldn't make much sense for him to leave for a couple of years.
He will be limited to an NFL position coach or a DC at a handful of schools, who wouldn't likely hire someone with his relative inexperience.
Is an NFL position coach that much better than a BCS coordinator? Doubtful.
I think that's what it will take.
Keep in mind, all it's gonna take is him having some success and a good word from Monte Kiffin, and he will be back in the NFL.
I can't recall what the upper level position guys make, but if he isn't a fan of recruiting, I could see it being pretty appealing. Who really knows.
I could also see him being the type to go to a Cornell or Hofstra as a HC if given the opportunity in the near future.
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My guess is Raheem won't be here a whole lot longer. If he likes recruiting...maybe.
Should be interesting to see.
Give him a lot of $$$$$$$$$$, even though it wouldn't make much sense for him to leave for a couple of years.
He will be limited to an NFL position coach or a DC at a handful of schools, who wouldn't likely hire someone with his relative inexperience.
Is an NFL position coach that much better than a BCS coordinator? Doubtful.
I think that's what it will take.
Keep in mind, all it's gonna take is him having some success and a good word from Monte Kiffin, and he will be back in the NFL.
I can't recall what the upper level position guys make, but if he isn't a fan of recruiting, I could see it being pretty appealing. Who really knows.
I could also see him being the type to go to a Cornell or Hofstra as a HC if given the opportunity in the near future.
A lot of position coaches in the NFL are former College position coaches - like James Franklin and Darrell Wyatt. That makes me think it would be a lateral move. How often does a college coordinator make the jump to the NFL, either as a coordinator or a position coach? I know that Musgrave, who preceded Prince at UVA, became an NFL OC.
I could see the HC thing happening, but I think it will take 3-4 solid years of coordinator experience before it does.
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I've been pretty impressed with his on the field stuff for the most part. I'm interested to see how recruiting goes. It would sure be nice to have some continuity at that position for 3 to 4 years...I'm still convinced that was KSU's ultimate demise under Snyder...
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Prince isn't a 7-5 type of coach...
I think he's going to stick with his system, his style of recruiting, his philosophy, etc and it will either get us to competing with the best the B12N has to offer or it will flop miserabley. He's going to get us rich, or kill us trying.
At this point, I think we're going to be alright.
But I think that really depends on our assistants sticking around, developing strong recruiting classes, and building some continuity within the program.
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I've been pretty impressed with his on the field stuff for the most part. I'm interested to see how recruiting goes. It would sure be nice to have some continuity at that position for 3 to 4 years...I'm still convinced that was KSU's ultimate demise under Snyder...
You bastard you typed that while I was typing. Well done. :tongue:
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Didn't we significantly raise our OC/DC and assistants pay when we hired Prince? I think we're much more competitive now in what we pay.
A key will be how well Prince meshes with his assistants and vice versa. Morris is definately the most marketable prospect right now, but I think he'll be around at least a couple more years.
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What does Prince make? Is it more than Snyder?
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Prince isn't a 7-5 type of coach...
I think he's going to stick with his system, his style of recruiting, his philosophy, etc and it will either get us to competing with the best the B12N has to offer or it will flop miserabley. He's going to get us rich, or kill us trying.
I've heard that said a lot, and I don't buy it. He could very easily make us a mediocre team...we're almost mediocre this year already.
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What does Prince make? Is it more than Snyder?
Prince makes $750k, Snyder made $2 mil.
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Prince isn't a 7-5 type of coach...
I think he's going to stick with his system, his style of recruiting, his philosophy, etc and it will either get us to competing with the best the B12N has to offer or it will flop miserabley. He's going to get us rich, or kill us trying.
I've heard that said a lot, and I don't buy it. He could very easily make us a mediocre team...we're almost mediocre this year already.
I've never heard it said but I believe it.
Saying that he's not a 7-5 coach doesn't imply that I think he's an 11-1 coach either. Saying we're mediocre this year might be a bit of an overstatement, but let's assume we are. Ever wonder why? Did you expect us to win the North this season? What has Prince done to this point that has lead you to believe that he will settle for mediocrity? I've not seen it.
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Wow, I didn't realize Bill made that much. I still can't believe the Jaybirds are paying Angina 1.5M a year. The Lawrence bakeries are in bidness for at least several more years.
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Prince isn't a 7-5 type of coach...
I think he's going to stick with his system, his style of recruiting, his philosophy, etc and it will either get us to competing with the best the B12N has to offer or it will flop miserabley. He's going to get us rich, or kill us trying.
I've heard that said a lot, and I don't buy it. He could very easily make us a mediocre team...we're almost mediocre this year already.
I've never heard it said but I believe it.
Saying that he's not a 7-5 coach doesn't imply that I think he's an 11-1 coach either. Saying we're mediocre this year might be a bit of an overstatement, but let's assume we are. Ever wonder why? Did you expect us to win the North this season? What has Prince done to this point that has lead you to believe that he will settle for mediocrity? I've not seen it.
It has been very common "logic" on the Jayhawk board.
I don't think any coach "accepts" mediocrity...that doesn't mean they will be complete flops if they aren't above average.
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Prince and gang are still 2 years away from really being able to show what they can do in recruiting. They are recruiting speed again this year because I think they believe that speed will make up for size issues. In two years they will have had solid contact with the recruiting base, and will have been able to develop good relationships with guys that are just now sophomores. If there is one thing that this staff has been very good at it is evaluating talent early and getting offers out there. There have been quite a few solid 3 and 4 star kids that had KSU listed as the first offer or one of the first. Now getting those guys on campus when the OU's, NU's Iowa's, etc come around is a different story.
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Prince isn't a 7-5 type of coach...
I think he's going to stick with his system, his style of recruiting, his philosophy, etc and it will either get us to competing with the best the B12N has to offer or it will flop miserabley. He's going to get us rich, or kill us trying.
I've heard that said a lot, and I don't buy it. He could very easily make us a mediocre team...we're almost mediocre this year already.
I've never heard it said but I believe it.
Saying that he's not a 7-5 coach doesn't imply that I think he's an 11-1 coach either. Saying we're mediocre this year might be a bit of an overstatement, but let's assume we are. Ever wonder why? Did you expect us to win the North this season? What has Prince done to this point that has lead you to believe that he will settle for mediocrity? I've not seen it.
It has been very common "logic" on the Jayhawk board.
I don't think any coach "accepts" mediocrity...that doesn't mean they will be complete flops if they aren't above average.
Understood that coaches don't need to accept being average to be average, but along those lines, what can you point to that Prince & staff have done that screams he won't succeed? Your earlier point was that we are barely mediocre now. Ya, agreed, and that was expected. Although we might not win as many games, I think we're a better team this season than the previous 2, that's a good sign considering all that has gone on in the past 24 months in our football program.
Don't discount everything our program has gone through recently-
-We retired the best football coach the game has ever seen. :crybaby:
-We hired his replacement. :hope:
-Prince has assembled a completely new coaching staff from the ground up (and made some mistakes in doing so). A lot of these guys are doing their jobs for the first time ever, during that ramp up time we're 4-3. Some of these guys on the staff knew each other, some didn't. These guys will take time working together to get really good at working together.
-Prince & Staff learned what type of roster they inherited and began implementing their Offensive & Defensive schemes, this takes time, more time than alloted in a few weeks of Spring/Fall practice. In doing so, the staff has alienated players and fans, and had to deal with those reprocussions, meanwhile continuing to motivate our current players into practicing and playing their balls out every week (easier said than done).
This craps gone on and more, probably by 10 times, and yet we've still won more this season than we've lost, we're still a more complete, a better team than we have been the previous 2 seasons IMO, and we're still discussing the outside chance at 6 wins and a bowl game.
These are the reasons why I don't consider Prince a 7-5 coach. :dive:
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Back to Morris. The optimist in me thinks that he might be the kind of guy that just has more fun with college kids than with NFL guys. Would some 7 year NFL vet be cool with Morris tackling him on the sidelines? Would Morris calm down a little? It could just be wishful thinking on my part, but I think the position he has right now suits him.
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i'm praying for 5 more years of raheem. he still has to prove he can coach up his own players though.
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here is something else to add outside of football talk...quality of life and family issues. Many of these coaches have purchased homes and the spouses/significant others really like the little apple. Prince doesn't require office time 24/7 like Snyder did. In the end that did him in. No up and coming coach outside of the wildcat football program worth a sh*t wanted to come here and LSnyder never "fired" an assistant.
Bob Stoops loved it here but moved on after 4 or so years. Raheem will be around for at least that long. And watching the pregame warmups makes me think kids will want to play for him. Recruiting will be easy...
Back to topic. As pointed out earlier. Prince is focusing on speed and mental toughness. K-State never got the 4 and 5 star recruits. Doubt we ever will. When we did they turned out more busts than bangs. We have to pray that they can recruit the right mix of 2 and 3 star recruits that consider it a privilege to wear purple and play their asses off on Saturday afternoons in the fall. :thumbsup:
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we will go to a bowl and i have left venables camp hello wait and see camp
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Great Thread. I obviously hope Prince succeeds, and do really like him. I think one of the main concerns still is just his overall inexperience. I mean its just glaring. I mean if you look at it objectively we hired the OC of VIRGINIA!!!! I mean Virginia. Think about that. They had a couple of decent offenses but are nowhere near the elite of college football. I think alot of people forget how elite we were for about 10 years, and just kind of have an attitude of... well ok, we're K-state and we had our run.
Going to a bowl would be an obvious successful season, but part of me thinks with the weakness of the conference and the returning starters we should do that. It should be expected. I agree that it will be interesting to see how K-State fans adjust their expectations. I think its fair to expect a run at the Big 12 north title at least 2-3 times every 5 years and to expect a conference title at least once or twice every 10. If not more. That's not asking too much. Its not 1989 anymore, K-State has been successful, and most importantly fans should expect K-State to be successful.
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raheem is only 30, its unlikely he'll be offered a HC job before he's 35. if we pay him decent he probably won't make any lateral moves.
imo, its hard to say prince isn't doing anything other than meeting reasonable expectations for this season which is fine. two losses at home to ranked teams and one on the road at what looks to be a middle of the pack conf team are no cause for alarm. we aren't getting throttled or embarrased and the def has been a pleasant surprise and we can all see the upside with josh.
6-6 is definitely doable and prince will join a rare group of coaches that had a winning first season/bowl team. beyond that a north champ every 2-3 yrs or so along with a bcs appearance every 3-4 yrs is reasonable.
at this point i see prince as more of a college football ceo than a super football mind (i think this is what got him hired). imo, his success will ultimately depend on finding a solid mix of asst coaches and players who can properly implement his philosophy. i think he can do it.
all that being said, i think the ku game this year is very important for his perception to a great deal of our fanbase, esp if ku continues to look so poor.
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i'm praying for 5 more years of raheem. he still has to prove he can coach up his own players though.
be glad your prayer wasn't answered