KSUFans Archives

Fan Life => The Endzone Dive => Topic started by: Pett on July 28, 2009, 01:46:12 PM

Title: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Pett on July 28, 2009, 01:46:12 PM
Where do we stand? I know we are probably second to GoPo, but our free board kills theirs. Are we atleast in second or does kstatefans beat us too?

IMHO we have got to be the most growing site in the last year or so since TP got here & premium started, correct?
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: cas on July 28, 2009, 01:55:06 PM
kstatefans is horrible.
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: WildCatzPhreak on July 28, 2009, 02:29:07 PM
kstatefans is horrible.
Does that place still exist?  I haven't been there in over a year.
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Pett on July 28, 2009, 02:37:44 PM
kstatefans is horrible.
Does that place still exist?  I haven't been there in over a year.

Yeah, sadly it does. I just started visiting it again from time to time. Pretty lame...

Seems like they might get a little bit more traffic over there then we do. But I'm not for sure, it's pretty close...
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Paul11 on July 28, 2009, 02:51:47 PM
I think this has to be the number one site. Probably not in terms of traffic, but of what I have heard about gopo is that it sucks.

Hell, at least we have truthful reports.
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Chingon on July 28, 2009, 03:04:10 PM
m'eh

they're all about the same
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Bookcat on July 28, 2009, 03:22:31 PM
I think this has to be the number one site. Probably not in terms of traffic, but of what I have heard about gopo is that it sucks.

Hell, at least we have truthful reports.

it sucks on gopo. everyone over there supports kstate athletics and crap with not only their mouths but their checkbooks.... it's lame.

 :jerkoff: :jerkoff: :jerkoff: :jerkoff:
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: PowercatPat on July 28, 2009, 04:56:20 PM
I would say we are the best, but I have never read the premium boards on GoPo. kstatefans is horrible.
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Pett on July 28, 2009, 05:06:48 PM
Overall, I could see us at the top. GoPo has been around a while & is the most popular. Kstatefans used to be decent when this place wasn't around. Now all of the elite posters from there came over here when this site was created. Kstatefans is pretty much the suck now and IMHO a weird format (hard to read quotes, etc.). If you haven't tried the premium here yet, it is a must. I've been signed up for a week now and there is some great info there. TP has some great sources inside the A.D.

And yes, like you said, good posters & info here....

Popularity aside:

1. ksufans
2. GoPo
3. kstatefans
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: fatty fat fat on July 28, 2009, 06:21:13 PM
number one.
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: The1BigWillie on July 28, 2009, 06:55:36 PM
I'd love to go premie on this site but have tried twice and apparently wasn't smart enough to figure it out so I gave up.   :flush:
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Pike on July 28, 2009, 07:12:40 PM
I'd love to go premie on this site but have tried twice and apparently wasn't smart enough to figure it out so I gave up.   :flush:

That's what I did when I was using a gas pump the other day. I couldn't figure it out, so I figured they don't deserve my business.
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Pett on July 28, 2009, 10:50:14 PM
I'd love to go premie on this site but have tried twice and apparently wasn't smart enough to figure it out so I gave up.   :flush:

Follow this link: http://twitter.com/KSUFans56

Then click on his second to last tweet link. Then go from there. You have got to have a paypal to sign up...
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: nicname on July 29, 2009, 01:03:09 AM
I don't ever really use gopo, i'm not premium and their free board is horrible. 

KSUFans.com com used to be a pretty good site but as others have said all the best posters have moved over here. The place is usually crickets.....

This site might have less members(i don't know this for sure)  but the activity and the actuall discussions over here are much better.  I like the mix over here especially with the young kids it kinda reminds me of the early days of KSUFans.com before the switch over to scout.  Except for back the we were really good at football and horrible at bball. 

This site has the best basketball talk by a large margin.  It say alot when moderators of KSUFans.com post over here as often as they do over there.

I started to convert last year and rarely post on the scout site any longer.

PLus the off topic on the scout site is horrible. 
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: catdude33 on July 29, 2009, 08:18:20 AM
i'm not premium and their free board is horrible. 

I used to post on Cat Chat a little.  Pretty fun board.
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: YouHaveHugeFitz22 on July 29, 2009, 10:02:59 AM
i'm not premium and their free board is horrible. 

I used to post on Cat Chat a little.  Pretty fun board.

Im one of the bigger powertards out there but recently Ive really grown to enjoy this site alot more. Better board with a better sense of humor, I also like how I can search "Koppe" and read all the hilarious threads making fun of me , its pretty cool. Ive grown very tired of the koolaid crap at Gopo and the get in line or get out attitude of the likes Oldfella who recently threatened to ban me for joking around about my friend running somebody down with his car, something that actually occured. Ive been on that board for 7 years and its just gotter worse and worse every year.

Honest question, is the the premium over here really worth it because Scout sure as hell sucks gonads and isnt? :powertard:
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: The1BigWillie on July 29, 2009, 12:58:51 PM
I'd love to go premie on this site but have tried twice and apparently wasn't smart enough to figure it out so I gave up.   :flush:

That's what I did when I was using a gas pump the other day. I couldn't figure it out, so I figured they don't deserve my business.

 :rofl: :curse:
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: KSt8er on July 29, 2009, 01:35:19 PM
I'd say this site is still hanging around somewhere between 3rd and 5th.   :cheers:
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Pett on July 30, 2009, 02:10:38 PM
At least we are the ESPN affiliate! :ksu:
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Winters on July 30, 2009, 03:24:29 PM
TP would kill Fitz in a fight...So were #1
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Babytears on July 30, 2009, 05:08:50 PM
I caught a bit of emawitis from this site.  And it's spreading to my loins and heart.
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: cas on July 30, 2009, 09:49:43 PM
I caught a bit of emawitis from this site.  And it's spreading to my loins and heart.

Completely normal.
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: ksu_FAN on July 31, 2009, 08:58:56 AM
Honest question, is the the premium over here really worth it because Scout sure as hell sucks gonads and isnt? :powertard:

Premium is worth it b/c TP brings things that GP or any other site simply can't.
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: steve dave on July 31, 2009, 09:26:02 AM
It all comes down to what you are comparing.  Here are my lists based on comparison:

Inside info of posters:
1. GPC.  By far.  They have the most premium members and get a lot of inside info from posters.  And, I don't mean retard posters like ksu_34 who just get stuff from facebook, there are actual posters that post good info.  Way more old'timey people usually results in this.  
2. ksufans.  exactly 2 seconds after anyone posts something on GPC premium boards it is posted here on the free boards.  Great resource for the cost conscious out there.  Also, we have by far the most posters that are students which helps.
3. kstatefans.  Don't know that there has ever been anything posted there that mattered.

Smell/looks:
1. ksufans.  By far.  Young, virile, fresh scent of posters.  I've met about 25 posters from this site and have never been disappointed with the eye candy.  Sexiness abounds.  
2. tie.  Both have old'mannish BO stank.  Disgusting looking and cranky for the most part.    

Non-banning:
1. ksufans.  Bans the least amount of posters and erase the fewest amount of posts.  It's not as good as it used to be, sadly.
2. GPC usually allows me to post for about a week or two but then bans me really hard.  And I'm paying them.  
3. kstatefans. Catfan28 immediately erases anything I post on KSUFans.com.  No matter what it is it is taken down.  Do you know how badly that craphole could use a dose of steve dave?  And here I am, offering it up freely only to be censored.  GMAFB.  

HFBIQ/HBBIQ analysis:
1. ksufans.com. Basketball puts this site over the top.  I don't know that either other site actually have posters that watch or understand hoops (other than ksu_FAN who posts on GPC as well).  Our 4 or 5 HBBIQ types are 4 or 5 more than either other site.  Football analysis is lacking in kansas state fans in general (JIMHO).  Having TP post HFBIQ stuff helps a lot.
2. GPC. Ridiculous level of powertardish'nes.  Posters defended Prince to the very end and would erupt in old person ridicule if the recruiting or coaching was nay'sayed.  Wanted Henson/Blackman to coach KSU basketball for f^ck sakes.
3. kstatefans.  Analysis consists of posting links to TCJ articles.  




Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: LimestoneOutcropping on July 31, 2009, 11:15:57 AM
Sexy parties:
1.  KSUFANs- 'Paker, nuff said but I will say more.  Handsome, calvin klein underwear models guys who smell like they are fresh out of a lilac scented waterfall.  Casual fashion that is still as hip as anything any USC or Miami fan would wear.  Beautiful women that can still talk KSU sports.  Elite food and conversation along with just enough booze to make the camaraderie blossom like a purple rose on the springtime Konza
2.  GOPO - They drink, I guess, but too much cold nacho cheese smelling fat people.
3.  Ksatefans - Never been.  Imagine it is quiet and they listen to bad music.
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Rick Daris on July 31, 2009, 11:46:52 AM
Sexy parties:
1.  KSUFANs- 'Paker, nuff said but I will say more.  Handsome, calvin klein underwear models guys who smell like they are fresh out of a lilac scented waterfall.  Casual fashion that is still as hip as anything any USC or Miami fan would wear.  Beautiful women that can still talk KSU sports.  Elite food and conversation along with just enough booze to make the camaraderie blossom like a purple rose on the springtime Konza
2.  GOPO - They drink, I guess, but too much cold nacho cheese smelling fat people.
3.  Ksatefans - Never been.  Imagine it is quiet and they listen to bad music.

i imagine a kstatefans party to be five guys standing in someones garage w/ a cooler of beer and some kind of rum punch. probably a dart board also.
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: catzacker on July 31, 2009, 11:51:47 AM
Here's how I view it:

GPC - The O'Reilly Factor
KSUFans - The Daily Show
Scout - MadTv
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Dirty Sanchez on July 31, 2009, 11:52:25 AM
Sexy parties:
1.  KSUFANs- 'Paker, nuff said but I will say more.  Handsome, calvin klein underwear models guys who smell like they are fresh out of a lilac scented waterfall.  Casual fashion that is still as hip as anything any USC or Miami fan would wear.  Beautiful women that can still talk KSU sports.  Elite food and conversation along with just enough booze to make the camaraderie blossom like a purple rose on the springtime Konza
2.  GOPO - They drink, I guess, but too much cold nacho cheese smelling fat people.
3.  Ksatefans - Never been.  Imagine it is quiet and they listen to bad music.

i imagine a kstatefans party to be five guys standing in someones garage w/ a cooler of beer and some kind of rum punch. probably a dart board also.

A phag.net party would be much the same, but with boxed wine and male strippers.
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Rick Daris on July 31, 2009, 11:58:40 AM
Sexy parties:
1.  KSUFANs- 'Paker, nuff said but I will say more.  Handsome, calvin klein underwear models guys who smell like they are fresh out of a lilac scented waterfall.  Casual fashion that is still as hip as anything any USC or Miami fan would wear.  Beautiful women that can still talk KSU sports.  Elite food and conversation along with just enough booze to make the camaraderie blossom like a purple rose on the springtime Konza
2.  GOPO - They drink, I guess, but too much cold nacho cheese smelling fat people.
3.  Ksatefans - Never been.  Imagine it is quiet and they listen to bad music.

i imagine a kstatefans party to be five guys standing in someones garage w/ a cooler of beer and some kind of rum punch. probably a dart board also.

also a portable cd player that is plugged in to a boombox type of thing over in the corner w/ dave matthews cd from 1997 playing.
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: steve dave on July 31, 2009, 12:03:06 PM
Here's how I view it:

GPC - The O'Reilly Factor
KSUFans - The Daily Show
Scout - MadTv

good analysis imHo
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Pett on July 31, 2009, 12:25:38 PM
(other than ksu_FAN who posts on GPC as well).

I love how each site (even though kstatefans sucks) doesn't have the same people posting on it. We're all pretty much spread out to one site (Except for CatMatt, but we'll take you!).
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Rick Daris on July 31, 2009, 12:31:17 PM
(other than ksu_FAN who posts on GPC as well).

I love how each site (even though kstatefans sucks) doesn't have the same people posting on it. We're all pretty much spread out to one site (Except for CatMatt, but we'll take you!).

not really true. i'm coloradomommacat over on the kstatefans board.
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Dirty Sanchez on July 31, 2009, 12:57:13 PM
(other than ksu_FAN who posts on GPC as well).

I love how each site (even though kstatefans sucks) doesn't have the same people posting on it. We're all pretty much spread out to one site (Except for CatMatt, but we'll take you!).

not really true. i'm coloradomommacat over on the kstatefans board.

Your daughter has a nice pooper.
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: pwrcat1 on July 31, 2009, 01:01:54 PM
What all can you access with the free boards at gpc?  I tried one time but almost every fracking time I would sign it wouldn't recognize my username and when it would allow me to sign in I could never read any of the boards.   :banghead:
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: WillieWannabe on July 31, 2009, 01:55:08 PM
Here's how I view it:

GPC - The O'Reilly Factor
KSUFans - The Daily Show
Scout - MadTv

Not a big fan  :dunno:
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Pete on July 31, 2009, 02:08:16 PM
(other than ksu_FAN who posts on GPC as well).

I love how each site (even though kstatefans sucks) doesn't have the same people posting on it. We're all pretty much spread out to one site (Except for CatMatt, but we'll take you!).

not really true. i'm coloradomommacat over on the kstatefans board.


I am KSU_34 on gpc.
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Ghost of Stan Parrish on July 31, 2009, 02:09:14 PM
What all can you access with the free boards at gpc?  I tried one time but almost every fracking time I would sign it wouldn't recognize my username and when it would allow me to sign in I could never read any of the boards.   :banghead:

You only get access to one board for free.  One lame-ass board.  I have logged onto that board once in the past four years or so.  I've never even seen the premium board over on GPC, because I refuse to pay for internets stuff.  Or sex.  But that's just me and my hang-ups.
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: pwrcat1 on July 31, 2009, 02:16:18 PM
What all can you access with the free boards at gpc?  I tried one time but almost every fracking time I would sign it wouldn't recognize my username and when it would allow me to sign in I could never read any of the boards.   :banghead:

You only get access to one board for free.  One lame-ass board.  I have logged onto that board once in the past four years or so.  I've never even seen the premium board over on GPC, because I refuse to pay for internets stuff.  Or sex.  But that's just me and my hang-ups.

Well that sucks dong. 
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: pwrcat1 on July 31, 2009, 02:18:54 PM
(other than ksu_FAN who posts on GPC as well).

I love how each site (even though kstatefans sucks) doesn't have the same people posting on it. We're all pretty much spread out to one site (Except for CatMatt, but we'll take you!).

not really true. i'm coloradomommacat over on the kstatefans board.


I am KSU_34 on gpc.

PETE!  Was 34 you hs number too!?!?!?!?!?!?!? 
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Ghost of Stan Parrish on July 31, 2009, 02:22:53 PM
What all can you access with the free boards at gpc?  I tried one time but almost every fracking time I would sign it wouldn't recognize my username and when it would allow me to sign in I could never read any of the boards.   :banghead:

You only get access to one board for free.  One lame-ass board.  I have logged onto that board once in the past four years or so.  I've never even seen the premium board over on GPC, because I refuse to pay for internets stuff.  Or sex.  But that's just me and my hang-ups.

Well that sucks dong. 

I guess I should've checked before posting.  You also get free access to the Ticket Exchange and the World Forum.  FYI, the free Cat Chat board has posts in two threads in the last 12 hours: "Josh signs his contract" and "K-State Researchers in the News."  Sound enticing?
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: cyclist on July 31, 2009, 02:25:33 PM

Smell/looks:
1. ksufans.  By far.  Young, virile, fresh scent of posters.  I've met about 25 posters from this site and have never been disappointed with the eye candy.  Sexiness abounds.  
2. tie.  Both have old'mannish BO stank.  Disgusting looking and cranky for the most part.    



Luckily, for steve dave, we've never met.  Unfortunately, I am an old man ( :cyclist: ), but I try to make sure the old-mannish BO stank is not present.  Probably don't fit into SD's eye candy clique, either.

However, I make up for all of these shortcomings by being the resident classless admin and resident cycling expert.  Of course, KSUFans has superior Tour de France coverage and commentary*.    And the other two sites are just too 'classy'.

And on a more serious note, Terry Pierce, of DoD fame, is owner of these boards.  The other two sites cannot match that.

*of course, since the other two sites don't have cycling at all...
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: pwrcat1 on July 31, 2009, 02:30:20 PM
What all can you access with the free boards at gpc?  I tried one time but almost every fracking time I would sign it wouldn't recognize my username and when it would allow me to sign in I could never read any of the boards.   :banghead:

You only get access to one board for free.  One lame-ass board.  I have logged onto that board once in the past four years or so.  I've never even seen the premium board over on GPC, because I refuse to pay for internets stuff.  Or sex.  But that's just me and my hang-ups.

Well that sucks dong. 

I guess I should've checked before posting.  You also get free access to the Ticket Exchange and the World Forum.  FYI, the free Cat Chat board has posts in two threads in the last 12 hours: "Josh signs his contract" and "K-State Researchers in the News."  Sound enticing?

I stand by my previous statement.
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Dirty Sanchez on July 31, 2009, 03:13:50 PM

Smell/looks:
1. ksufans.  By far.  Young, virile, fresh scent of posters.  I've met about 25 posters from this site and have never been disappointed with the eye candy.  Sexiness abounds.  
2. tie.  Both have old'mannish BO stank.  Disgusting looking and cranky for the most part.    



Probably don't fit into SD's eye candy clique, either.



Probably? :peek:
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: cyclist on July 31, 2009, 03:19:29 PM

Smell/looks:
1. ksufans.  By far.  Young, virile, fresh scent of posters.  I've met about 25 posters from this site and have never been disappointed with the eye candy.  Sexiness abounds.  
2. tie.  Both have old'mannish BO stank.  Disgusting looking and cranky for the most part.    



Probably don't fit into SD's eye candy clique, either.



Probably? :peek:

Ok, I really don't fit into SD's eye candy clique.  There, I posted it.

:cyclist:          :cyclist:           :cyclist:           :cyclist:
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: FelixRex on July 31, 2009, 03:40:02 PM
Why the hostility, bros? I know 'fans has never really recovered from the loss of StaceyDean, but I thought we were all KATZ.  :limb:

QFT on the bball board, though. Also about GPC sucking except for having info.
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: steve dave on July 31, 2009, 03:41:38 PM
Why the hostility, bros? I know 'fans has never really recovered from the loss of StaceyDean, but I thought we were all KATZ.  :limb:

QFT on the bball board, though. Also about GPC sucking except for having info.

I don't think it's hostility.  It's just what it is.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: FelixRex on July 31, 2009, 04:16:23 PM
Well, as long as it's not hostile.

Also, no props for having the PREMIER WBB board? (http://www.communities.com/images/emoticons/hide.gif)
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Pett on July 31, 2009, 04:24:56 PM
I think all of the OT threads on "Wabash Station" really brings them down and ties them with us (maybe puts us a little ahead of them since we actually have a seperate board to put all of the off topic things).
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: FelixRex on July 31, 2009, 04:33:15 PM
If we ever get another ESPN GameDay in Manhattan, I think a great sign would be:

"OT: Anyone know a good urologist in Junction City?"
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: steve dave on July 31, 2009, 04:36:51 PM
If we ever get another ESPN GameDay in Manhattan, I think a great sign would be:

"OT: Anyone know a good urologist in Junction City?"

lol
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Kat Kid on August 01, 2009, 10:07:18 AM
Guys great work here.  I've been busy moving in to my new super elite pad, and the wireless is downskis. 

My take is as follows:


1) Ksufans.com due to humor, elite bbs skill, cheap/accurate prems and pm.

2) Gtfoomf
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: michigancat on August 01, 2009, 10:12:54 AM
wtf happened to Stacey Dean?

:dunno:
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: steve dave on August 01, 2009, 10:23:00 AM
wtf happened to Stacey Dean?

:dunno:

Wasn't it you or fff or someone else that theorized that he was make believe?
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Pete on August 01, 2009, 10:46:35 AM
wtf happened to Stacey Dean?

:dunno:

Wasn't it you or fff or someone else that theorized that he was make believe?

Curtis Kitchen?
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Rick Daris on August 01, 2009, 10:50:43 AM
wtf happened to Stacey Dean?

:dunno:

Wasn't it you or fff or someone else that theorized that he was make believe?

Stacey Dean
Steve   Dave

 :ohno:
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: dr00d on August 01, 2009, 10:56:44 AM
What?....no inclusion of EMAW (http://vmedia.rivals.com/UserMedia/FanPagesPhoto/Gallery/222/O226850.png) in the vote?  For shame.  ;)
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: steve dave on August 01, 2009, 11:04:42 AM
wtf happened to Stacey Dean?

:dunno:

Wasn't it you or fff or someone else that theorized that he was make believe?

Stacey Dean
Steve   Dave

 :ohno:
:scared:
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: fatty fat fat on August 01, 2009, 02:37:33 PM
stacey dean was seanK. that one was pretty obvious.

ksufans.com doesn't have enough traffic though. i mean, there is only so much "fatty fat fat" I can take.
Title: Re: Comparing all three KSU sites/message boards...
Post by: Rick Daris on August 01, 2009, 02:45:02 PM
stacey dean was seanK. that one was pretty obvious.

ksufans.com doesn't have enough traffic though. i mean, there is only so much "fatty fat fat" I can take.

kinda know what you mean. sometimes i feel bad for posting as much as i do and then i think...if i don't post something, who will? quite the perplexing conundrum.