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Sports => Frank Martin's OOD sponsored by the "Angriest Fans in America" => Topic started by: fatty fat fat on July 31, 2008, 09:18:18 AM

Title: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: fatty fat fat on July 31, 2008, 09:18:18 AM
aren't we still an nit team?
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: steve dave on July 31, 2008, 09:20:33 AM
I would say so.  Who's going to score?  If clemente has augustin numbers and even if pullen has abrams numbers who else on our team is going to produce?  We don't have a damion jones or even a connor atchley.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: fatty fat fat on July 31, 2008, 09:22:18 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31578

wow. 20 ppg. if pullen can avg 15...then maybe?

of course they would have to jack up 20 shots a piece to do it.

would have been nice if beasley didn't bail on us. :mad:
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: doom on July 31, 2008, 09:23:35 AM
NIT would be fabulous for this year.  Any post season play and I'm okay with it.  To not be an NIT team we would need to get a lot of help from somewhere else.  Samuels, Sutton, and Pullen would all need good seasons and Anderson and Kent would just need to be consistently not horrid.  It's a stretch in the front court. 
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: fatty fat fat on July 31, 2008, 09:24:48 AM
what if awaji = tim ellis?

yeah, probably still nit.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: steve dave on July 31, 2008, 09:29:40 AM
what if awaji = tim ellis?

yeah, probably still nit.

Well, if he averages about 9 (add in your clemente 20 and pullen 16 (abrams avg)).....I find it hard to believe we wouldn't be kinda good in this situation?  I mean, that's 45 ppg from the Gs.  We have to get 25 from the 3-5 right?  RIGHT!?

 :ksu:
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: yosh on July 31, 2008, 09:36:20 AM
It's not like Texas was a bubble team.  If Clemente = Augustine of course we won't be as good as Texas was, but that doesn't make us an NIT team.  Texas was a 2 seed.  The question is, can we be a good as Baylor was?     :hope:
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: KCcat28 on July 31, 2008, 10:03:43 AM
Too many questions at this point... I want to see how Sutton and Samuals perform without Beasley first. We need atleast 1 big man on the court that can rebound well. If Samuals is the answer there then it could be a better than expected season IMO.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: yosh on July 31, 2008, 10:14:01 AM
I don't think rebounding will be a problem.  The biggest issue is that Clemente/Pullen not only need to score a ton, but they have to be responsible for everyone elses points.  Sutton is probably the only other player capable of scoring unassisted.  I figure, for us to be good, Pullen and Clemente need to combine for 30ppg and 10 apg.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: cas on July 31, 2008, 10:36:29 AM
I think Ron Anderson will average around 8-10 ppg. Just throwing that out there.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: KSt8er on July 31, 2008, 10:44:59 AM
You guys are forgetting Lou, that's another 15/15 right there. 
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: KCcat28 on July 31, 2008, 10:51:15 AM
I completely forgot about Ron. Sounds like he has gotten bigger this offseason. He is going to be big for us next season as well. I'm thinkin 10 ppg and 7rpg would be a good goal for him as a soph.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: doom on July 31, 2008, 10:55:29 AM
You guys are forgetting Lou, that's another 15/15 right there. 

15 turnovers makes sense, but you can only foul 5 times in a game of college basketball.

And I think Ron will be better, but I'm not sure he'll get that much better.  Sure he played amazing against USC when no one saw it coming, but I'm not sure he can be a force consistently with teams actually expecting to see him get minutes.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: KCcat28 on July 31, 2008, 11:04:09 AM
You guys are forgetting Lou, that's another 15/15 right there. 

15 turnovers makes sense, but you can only foul 5 times in a game of college basketball.

And I think Ron will be better, but I'm not sure he'll get that much better.  Sure he played amazing against USC when no one saw it coming, but I'm not sure he can be a force consistently with teams actually expecting to see him get minutes.

Yeah I understand what you are saying, what I mean about Ron is for those numbers to be goals. He will have to be the leader down low this year and those kind of numbers would be a pretty good start in this team making strides on getting to postseason again this season.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: yosh on July 31, 2008, 11:06:26 AM
Anderson, Samuels and Herrera are going to be good rebounders and they will get some garbage points, but none of them are capable of getting the ball and manufacturing points (that I have seen anyway)  They will score a few points off of putbacks and a few freethrows, but the biggest question is going to be how well can the guards manufacture some easy points for these guys?  Drive and dishes to Anderson and Herrera...  Alley-oops to Samuels...  Same way with the other guards.  Awaji and Brown are going to score on spot ups and in transition.  They aren't going to take anyone off the dribble, or create their own space.  It's going to Pullen's and Clemente's job to make that happen.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: steve dave on July 31, 2008, 11:16:29 AM
Anyone notice that Anderson throws up crazy prayer post move shots that go in a lot?  I don't think he can keep that up.  He's about 7 of 8 with rediculous post moves.  You can see it coming too.  He'll get the ball int he post and you can see the gears clicking together in his head while he thinks out the redic. spinning hook thrown up without ever looking at the basket.  I don't know that he's actually "good" though.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: yosh on July 31, 2008, 11:19:04 AM
Anyone notice that Anderson throws up crazy prayer post move shots that go in a lot?  I don't think he can keep that up.  He's about 7 of 8 with rediculous post moves.  You can see it coming too.  He'll get the ball int he post and you can see the gears clicking together in his head while he thinks out the redic. spinning hook thrown up without ever looking at the basket.  I don't know that he's actually "good" though.

He's a legit rebounder I think... but yeah...none of our bigs can score out of the post.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: Pett on July 31, 2008, 11:31:17 AM
frank said that two players who were redshirting (well clemente because of transfer) were in his words, "amazing."

Samuels & Clemente.

I wouldn't mind a line-up like this if in fact frank is telling the truth.

Pullen (better start him frank! :mad:)
Clemente
Sutton
Samuels
Anderson
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: doom on July 31, 2008, 11:33:37 AM
Don't you think Kent will get the experience start over Anderson, though?  Kind of like a Stewart thing?
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: Pett on July 31, 2008, 11:38:08 AM
Don't you think Kent will get the experience start over Anderson, though?  Kind of like a Stewart thing?

Yeah, frank will try to teach ron some type of pullen "lesson". :redface:
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: Jesus Shuttlesworth on July 31, 2008, 11:58:51 AM
Frank has been pretty honest about players abilities so far.  I see no reason to doubt the Clemete > Augustine thing. 
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: Skydog on July 31, 2008, 12:04:33 PM
Don't you think Kent will get the experience start over Anderson, though?  Kind of like a Stewart thing?

 :banghead: :banghead: That would not be a smart move.

Anderson >>>>>>> Kent. In every way. Ever.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: Legore on July 31, 2008, 12:26:47 PM
Word is Anderson has improved more in S&C then anyone else on the team.   He was coming off a broken leg last year and came in out of shape.  Greenwalt worked hard to get some weight off of him and get him into shape but he lost some muscle in the process.  Physique wise he's going to be a totally different player next year. 
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: pissclams on July 31, 2008, 12:50:41 PM
Anderson, Samuels and Herrera are going to be good rebounders and they will get some garbage points, but none of them are capable of getting the ball and manufacturing points (that I have seen anyway)  They will score a few points off of putbacks and a few freethrows, but the biggest question is going to be how well can the guards manufacture some easy points for these guys?  Drive and dishes to Anderson and Herrera...  Alley-oops to Samuels...  Same way with the other guards.  Awaji and Brown are going to score on spot ups and in transition.  They aren't going to take anyone off the dribble, or create their own space.  It's going to Pullen's and Clemente's job to make that happen.

what exactly of samuels' game have you seen that would allow you to make a qualified statement like that?  are you spending time in practices/workouts?  just wondering tbh.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: yosh on July 31, 2008, 12:54:54 PM
Anderson, Samuels and Herrera are going to be good rebounders and they will get some garbage points, but none of them are capable of getting the ball and manufacturing points (that I have seen anyway)  They will score a few points off of putbacks and a few freethrows, but the biggest question is going to be how well can the guards manufacture some easy points for these guys?  Drive and dishes to Anderson and Herrera...  Alley-oops to Samuels...  Same way with the other guards.  Awaji and Brown are going to score on spot ups and in transition.  They aren't going to take anyone off the dribble, or create their own space.  It's going to Pullen's and Clemente's job to make that happen.

what exactly of samuels' game have you seen that would allow you to make a qualified statement like that?  are you spending time in practices/workouts?  just wondering tbh.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: steve dave on July 31, 2008, 12:56:08 PM
You know what I have seen of samuels?.....excellent dunker in warmups!  :ksu:
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: doom on July 31, 2008, 01:02:12 PM
And he makes cool high pitched noises while he does them.  Kind of reminds me of Mike singing during warmups and freethrows. 
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: pissclams on July 31, 2008, 01:06:35 PM
Anderson, Samuels and Herrera are going to be good rebounders and they will get some garbage points, but none of them are capable of getting the ball and manufacturing points (that I have seen anyway)  They will score a few points off of putbacks and a few freethrows, but the biggest question is going to be how well can the guards manufacture some easy points for these guys?  Drive and dishes to Anderson and Herrera...  Alley-oops to Samuels...  Same way with the other guards.  Awaji and Brown are going to score on spot ups and in transition.  They aren't going to take anyone off the dribble, or create their own space.  It's going to Pullen's and Clemente's job to make that happen.

what exactly of samuels' game have you seen  that would allow you to make a qualified statement like that?  are you spending time in practices/workouts?  just wondering tbh.

why pretend to know anything after watching them in the layup line?
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: yosh on July 31, 2008, 01:26:37 PM
Anderson, Samuels and Herrera are going to be good rebounders and they will get some garbage points, but none of them are capable of getting the ball and manufacturing points (that I have seen anyway)  They will score a few points off of putbacks and a few freethrows, but the biggest question is going to be how well can the guards manufacture some easy points for these guys?  Drive and dishes to Anderson and Herrera...  Alley-oops to Samuels...  Same way with the other guards.  Awaji and Brown are going to score on spot ups and in transition.  They aren't going to take anyone off the dribble, or create their own space.  It's going to Pullen's and Clemente's job to make that happen.

what exactly of samuels' game have you seen  that would allow you to make a qualified statement like that?  are you spending time in practices/workouts?  just wondering tbh.

why pretend to know anything after watching them in the layup line?

Admittedly Samuels is a wildcard, but comments from the coaching staff are always more directed his athelecism and energy, not his offensive skill set.  I'm pretty confident that a player of his obvious atheletic ability and length would be much more hyped if occumpanied by potent offensive skill set.  I would call it more "reading between the lines" than "pretending to know".  However, I'll go ahead and validate you since you went to all the trouble to call me out.

Samuels is a complete unkown.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: I_have_purplewood on July 31, 2008, 01:28:21 PM
Anyone notice that Anderson throws up crazy prayer post move shots that go in a lot?  I don't think he can keep that up.  He's about 7 of 8 with rediculous post moves.  You can see it coming too.  He'll get the ball int he post and you can see the gears clicking together in his head while he thinks out the redic. spinning hook thrown up without ever looking at the basket.  I don't know that he's actually "good" though.
He reminds me a lot of Fred McCoy.  I always wondered how he would come away with double digit production numbers with those crazy moves he use to make.  Ahhhh, Fred McCoy.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: pissclams on July 31, 2008, 02:31:31 PM
Anderson, Samuels and Herrera are going to be good rebounders and they will get some garbage points, but none of them are capable of getting the ball and manufacturing points (that I have seen anyway)  They will score a few points off of putbacks and a few freethrows, but the biggest question is going to be how well can the guards manufacture some easy points for these guys?  Drive and dishes to Anderson and Herrera...  Alley-oops to Samuels...  Same way with the other guards.  Awaji and Brown are going to score on spot ups and in transition.  They aren't going to take anyone off the dribble, or create their own space.  It's going to Pullen's and Clemente's job to make that happen.

what exactly of samuels' game have you seen  that would allow you to make a qualified statement like that?  are you spending time in practices/workouts?  just wondering tbh.

why pretend to know anything after watching them in the layup line?

Admittedly Samuels is a wildcard, but comments from the coaching staff are always more directed his athelecism and energy, not his offensive skill set.  I'm pretty confident that a player of his obvious atheletic ability and length would be much more hyped if occumpanied by potent offensive skill set.  I would call it more "reading between the lines" than "pretending to know".  However, I'll go ahead and validate you since you went to all the trouble to call me out.

Samuels is a complete unkown.
you're not validating me, more like you're invalidating yourself.  and i wasn't calling you out, i was wondering the basis of your very definitive comments related to his play.  i just wanted to know how you came to those conclusions.  your "reading between the lines" analysis of his game is  :flush:  and you usually bring more than that, or at least i thought you did, hence my question.  hell, for all i know you might play with the guys every night, or help as a manager, or have any credible insight to make the comments you did.

dalonte said last december that the staff made a mistake in redshirting samuels and that he could have been an impact player last year had they not made the decision.  so, i'm hoping for more from him then the impact that i do from anderson/herrera.  imo, the limited success(?) that anderson had last year had more to do with beasley and walker being on the floor than it did with anderson's skill set, i expect colon sr from herrera, both expectations built upon their previous play. 

maybe 'te 450k is full of it.  apparently no one here knows either way.

Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: steve dave on July 31, 2008, 02:34:07 PM
Frank did say he thought Samuels would have been able to play 10-15 minutes per game by the end of last season so I don't know just how "impact" he meant by "impact".  I do hold out hope that samuels will be pretty good though.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: doom on July 31, 2008, 02:35:06 PM
I think red-shirting him was pretty smart and showed that they actually gave a crap about the team long term.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: pissclams on July 31, 2008, 02:37:32 PM
Frank did say he thought Samuels would have been able to play 10-15 minutes per game by the end of last season so I don't know just how "impact" he meant by "impact".  I do hold out hope that samuels will be pretty good though.
i don't think anyone really cares or lends credence to what comes out of frank's mouth.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: steve dave on July 31, 2008, 02:38:34 PM
Frank did say he thought Samuels would have been able to play 10-15 minutes per game by the end of last season so I don't know just how "impact" he meant by "impact".  I do hold out hope that samuels will be pretty good though.
i don't think anyone really cares or lends credence to what comes out of frank's mouth.

ok
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: pissclams on July 31, 2008, 02:40:07 PM
Frank did say he thought Samuels would have been able to play 10-15 minutes per game by the end of last season so I don't know just how "impact" he meant by "impact".  I do hold out hope that samuels will be pretty good though.
i don't think anyone really cares or lends credence to what comes out of frank's mouth.

ok

ya know?
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: steve dave on July 31, 2008, 02:42:25 PM
Frank did say he thought Samuels would have been able to play 10-15 minutes per game by the end of last season so I don't know just how "impact" he meant by "impact".  I do hold out hope that samuels will be pretty good though.
i don't think anyone really cares or lends credence to what comes out of frank's mouth.

ok

ya know?

 :users:
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: Legore on July 31, 2008, 03:19:06 PM
I don't get the people that are saying Anderson's production was due to Beasley and Walker being on the floor.  I don't think he was hardly ever in with both of them on the floor.  A decent portion of  his minutes came with neither of them on the floor at the end of blowouts.  The majority of the time he was in the game he was in for Beasley. 
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: yosh on July 31, 2008, 03:32:38 PM
stuff


My bad.  I didn't read it as a straight forward question. 

No I've never seen him play.  Probably should have prefaced with "unless Samuels is much better than I expect..."  I'll be really suprised if Samuels is anything more than an atheletic Kent who doesn't jack up threes.

Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: Skydog on July 31, 2008, 04:39:04 PM
stuff


My bad.  I didn't read it as a straight forward question. 

No I've never seen him play.  Probably should have prefaced with "unless Samuels is much better than I expect..."  I'll be really suprised if Samuels is anything more than an atheletic Kent who doesn't jack up threes.



Well, wouldn't that be a good thing?
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: yosh on July 31, 2008, 04:42:30 PM
stuff


My bad.  I didn't read it as a straight forward question. 

No I've never seen him play.  Probably should have prefaced with "unless Samuels is much better than I expect..."  I'll be really suprised if Samuels is anything more than an atheletic Kent who doesn't jack up threes.



Well, wouldn't that be a good thing?

Sure.  Don't get me wrong, I think he'll be a good player.  I just don't think he'll be the type that you can put the ball in his hands and he'll create his own offense.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: Skydog on July 31, 2008, 04:59:31 PM
stuff


My bad.  I didn't read it as a straight forward question. 

No I've never seen him play.  Probably should have prefaced with "unless Samuels is much better than I expect..."  I'll be really suprised if Samuels is anything more than an atheletic Kent who doesn't jack up threes.



Well, wouldn't that be a good thing?

Sure.  Don't get me wrong, I think he'll be a good player.  I just don't think he'll be the type that you can put the ball in his hands and he'll create his own offense.

Well (totally just going off of what you see in warm-ups, so, ya know, this is based on nothing) He seems like he may be athletic enough to create some scoring opportunities for himself. With his size/weight he should have a quickness advantage over anyone guarding him.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: steve dave on July 31, 2008, 05:06:42 PM
With his size/weight he should have a quickness advantage over anyone guarding him.

That's just a nice way of saying he's too skinny
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: Skydog on July 31, 2008, 05:17:16 PM
With his size/weight he should have a quickness advantage over anyone guarding him.

That's just a nice way of saying he's too skinny

 :nono: He could be big, powerful, and strong... but he decided to go the light as a feather and quick route.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: steve dave on July 31, 2008, 05:20:35 PM
With his size/weight he should have a quickness advantage over anyone guarding him.

That's just a nice way of saying he's too skinny

 :nono: He could be big, powerful, and strong... but he decided to go the light as a feather and quick route.

ok, I hope you're right fwiw.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: Skydog on July 31, 2008, 05:24:09 PM
With his size/weight he should have a quickness advantage over anyone guarding him.

That's just a nice way of saying he's too skinny

 :nono: He could be big, powerful, and strong... but he decided to go the light as a feather and quick route.

ok, I hope you're right fwiw.

Me too  :beerchug:
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: wes mantooth on July 31, 2008, 06:25:07 PM
Samuels = Beasley 2.0

Stop fightin' it, we are going to dominate next year.
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: catzacker on July 31, 2008, 07:30:09 PM
With his size/weight he should have a quickness advantage over anyone guarding him.

That's just a nice way of saying he's too skinny

exactly, it's kinda like when she says "it's just the right size".
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: steve dave on July 31, 2008, 09:57:18 PM
With his size/weight he should have a quickness advantage over anyone guarding him.

That's just a nice way of saying he's too skinny

exactly, it's kinda like when she says "it's just the right size".

 :-[
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: michigancat on July 31, 2008, 10:09:50 PM
what if frank is wrong, and clemente >> augustin?

???

:ksu:
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: steve dave on July 31, 2008, 10:11:52 PM
what if frank is wrong, and clemente >> augustin?

???

:ksu:

Frank, you retard!  :ksu:
Title: Re: let's say frank is right, clemente == augustin
Post by: GoodForAnother on August 01, 2008, 03:37:18 PM
Jamar  :love: