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Sports => Frank Martin's OOD sponsored by the "Angriest Fans in America" => Topic started by: Pete on May 16, 2008, 08:49:10 AM

Title: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Pete on May 16, 2008, 08:49:10 AM
So, Arthur's school changed his grades so that he would be eligible.  From what I have read, he earned 4 scores his freshman year alone that were all below 50%.

I understand ku's argument that they should not be punished because they relied upon the NCAA clearing house's statement that Arthur was fully eligible.  HOWEVER, the NCAA relied upon fraudulent documents submitted by Arthur and his school......let me repeat that....BY ARTHUR.  He KNEW that he was submitting fraudulent information to the NCAA.  If you fail 4 classes in one year, you KNOW you aren't eligible. 

The NCAA can absolve itself of responsibility because they have no obligation to ferret out fraud.  As a result, the NCAA can easily determine that Arthur was not eligible for any NCAA games he played in.

Think of it this way, what if he cheated on his ACT and had someone else take it and it was later discovered?  The NCAA would definitely vacate all wins in that case.  How is this any different?  How is this different than if Arthur cheated on classwork while at ku?  What would the NCAA do then?


The facts are clear.  Darrell Arthur lied to the ncaa when he submitted his applications for eligibility.  The NCAA relied upon fraudulent materials and statements when they deemed him eligible.  If Arthur's actual scores were submitted he would NOT have been eligible for D1 athletics. 

Honestly Hawk fans, what should the NCAA do?

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Pete on May 16, 2008, 08:55:05 AM
....Oh, then there's this little doozy from the NCAA.

Quote

14.1.2 Validity of Academic Credentials. As a condition and obligation of membership, it is the responsibility of a member institution to determine the validity of the information on which the eligibility of a student-athlete is based. Therefore, it is the responsibility of a member institution to determine whether a transcript is valid for purposes of applying appropriate NCAA legislation to the eligibility of a student-athlete when the institution receives notification, or otherwise has cause to believe, that a student-athlete's high school, preparatory school or two-year college transcript is not valid.

Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Burgertime on May 16, 2008, 08:58:12 AM
They should probably kill his dog.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Saulbadguy on May 16, 2008, 08:58:51 AM
The NCAA should see how deep the rabbit hole goes.  If this is it, I don't see much recourse.  Maybe a loss of a scholarship.  
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Burgertime on May 16, 2008, 09:06:21 AM
I think we'll send Lew and MF'n Dooley down to Texas.  Bloodbath.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: ksu_FAN on May 16, 2008, 09:09:12 AM
The NCAA should see how deep the rabbit hole goes.  If this is it, I don't see much recourse.  Maybe a loss of a scholarship.  

Yeah, but it looks like it was mainly a problem with the high school.  It just came out after he was out, though there had to be some information out there about what was going down.  But its too easy in this case of ku to say they didn't know anything was going on and they have the paperwork to back it up.  

Still quite amusing after all the crap we got about Beasley and Walker that this goes down on one of their players.  Of course I'm sure Shady was just a victum of an ugly system and a high school gone bad; probably figured he got those passing scores b/c of his excellent behavior and excellent work ethic.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Pete on May 16, 2008, 09:09:23 AM
I think we'll send Lew and MF'n Dooley down to Texas.  Bloodbath.

Seriously, what part of this NCAA bylaw is not in play here?

14.1.2 Validity of Academic Credentials. As a condition and obligation of membership, it is the responsibility of a member institution to determine the validity of the information on which the eligibility of a student-athlete is based. Therefore, it is the responsibility of a member institution to determine whether a transcript is valid for purposes of applying appropriate NCAA legislation to the eligibility of a student-athlete when the institution receives notification, or otherwise has cause to believe, that a student-athlete's high school, preparatory school or two-year college transcript is not valid.

Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Pete on May 16, 2008, 09:14:35 AM
The NCAA should see how deep the rabbit hole goes.  If this is it, I don't see much recourse.  Maybe a loss of a scholarship.  

Yeah, but it looks like it was mainly a problem with the high school.  It just came out after he was out, though there had to be some information out there about what was going down.  But its too easy in this case of ku to say they didn't know anything was going on and they have the paperwork to back it up.  

Still quite amusing after all the crap we got about Beasley and Walker that this goes down on one of their players.  Of course I'm sure Shady was just a victum of an ugly system and a high school gone bad; probably figured he got those passing scores b/c of his excellent behavior and excellent work ethic.

Catzacker had a good point on this....

Quote
Why is it that ku recruited Arthur, then didn't recruit him, then all of a sudden went after them at the end.  They were acting like recruitment on HS kids starts after their junior year or something.  Coaches get their transcripts immediately and if something changed from one transcript to the next (like say from an F to a B/C) then that's amazing that it didn't spark a question of "hey, how did you get this changed, did you redo the class"


Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: FHSU92 on May 16, 2008, 09:20:52 AM
I think we'll send Lew and MF'n Dooley down to Texas.  Bloodbath.

Seriously, what part of this NCAA bylaw is not in play here?

14.1.2 Validity of Academic Credentials. As a condition and obligation of membership, it is the responsibility of a member institution to determine the validity of the information on which the eligibility of a student-athlete is based. Therefore, it is the responsibility of a member institution to determine whether a transcript is valid for purposes of applying appropriate NCAA legislation to the eligibility of a student-athlete when the institution receives notification, or otherwise has cause to believe, that a student-athlete's high school, preparatory school or two-year college transcript is not valid.



Pete, I'm with ya...It's ku's (or any institution) responsibility to provide valid credentials, not the HS/prep school.  It is like the transcript did come from ku as they are responsible for its content.  They either were hiding something, or they did not care or know -- but in any case they are responsible.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Pete on May 16, 2008, 09:25:30 AM
Pete, I'm with ya...It's ku's (or any institution) responsibility to provide valid credentials, not the HS/prep school.  It is like the transcript did come from ku as they are responsible for its content.  They either were hiding something, or they did not care or know -- but in any case they are responsible.

Even if you grant that ku didn't know, and even if you grant that they couldn't have known, you still have a student who lied to the NCAA about his academic credentials, and who should not have been eligible.

The question remains, what happens to the games in which an inelligble player participates?

I fail to see how this is any different than if he had cheated while in college.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: catzacker on May 16, 2008, 09:27:28 AM
According to the KC star, he failed a course in '03 that got changed in January  of '05 (the spring semester of his jr. year) and then the acticle also said that Arthur received no grades for the entire fall semester of his jr year (04) only to have them changed in the fall of his senior year (Sept '05).  So.....if ku got his transcripts before these changes were made...then got another one after these chagnes were made, then the NCAA could claim or make a case that they should have questioned it or at least asked a question of "hey, how did you make up like every class?".
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: sonofdaxjones on May 16, 2008, 10:11:13 AM
Remember, at one time ku went 2 years without a compliance department, so they're not real big at getting the details over there.

Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: catzacker on May 16, 2008, 10:20:28 AM
ku had an in home with him around 9/12/05....lol...this is when his grades got changed. 

http://kansasstate.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=889&CID=454150 (http://kansasstate.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=889&CID=454150)

on 8/4/05, ku had "already made the cut" for the Shayd sweepstakes (before grades were changed).

http://kansasstate.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=889&CID=439638 (http://kansasstate.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=889&CID=439638)

on 6/29/04, "I also like Kansas" said arthur

http://kansasstate.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=889&CID=308067 (http://kansasstate.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=889&CID=308067)

...kind of deflating the "ku got on him late" talking point.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: catdude33 on May 16, 2008, 11:09:17 AM
Another serious question: Why are so many top athletes so dumb?  Passing high school is, like, really easy.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: sonofdaxjones on May 16, 2008, 11:18:53 AM
Please note when his aau coach was getting $2,000 (probably more under the table) to "talk" at the ku basketball camp.

Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: LimestoneOutcropping on May 16, 2008, 11:43:44 AM
If he couldn't pass high school algebra, how did he keep his grades in a Ivy league institution like ku?
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Jesus Shuttlesworth on May 16, 2008, 11:53:42 AM
Why did a 5-star kid ranked #16 in the 2006 class and the 2nd rated player in the state of Texas only end up with 3 offers at the end of his recruitment?


http://kansasstate.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=22048&sport=2#colleges

Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: ksuno1stunner on May 16, 2008, 11:56:14 AM
Please note when his aau coach was getting $2,000 (probably more under the table) to "talk" at the ku basketball camp.



That is a great f-ing idea imo.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: NationalChamps on May 16, 2008, 12:11:39 PM
*yawn*

Probably not the only player on ku to have his grades adjusted one way or another, probably half the players on KSU as well, along with every other program in america.

Don't be so naive, this and so much worse goes on at every major program in the country. Hell my dad only played TENNIS for tcu and he was given a list of teachers that he should take classes from, and during tests on true/false questions they would say "Eh, might wanna think about that answer some more"

Its part of the college football and basketball world. Too much money is at risk to let a little something like highschool grades get in the way of these kids getting into schools.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Burgertime on May 16, 2008, 12:14:45 PM
The NCAA penalizing Kansas would be breaking the NCAA clearinghouse agreement with the schools that determines the students eligibility.   Penalties would be on the high school... more scrutiny for student-athletes coming out of the school... and if a recurring theme is established the high school could be designated a diploma mill and kids would not be eligible to exit that school and play in the NCAA.  The clearinghouse cleared Arthur to begin NCAA play so he is eligible as long as everything he did at Kansas is legit.  And my dick is huge.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Jesus Shuttlesworth on May 16, 2008, 12:18:40 PM
*yawn*

Probably not the only player on ku to have his grades adjusted one way or another, probably half the players on KSU as well, along with every other program in america.


Standard "everyone cheats" talking point.  

ku hoops:
- On probation 5 out of the last 6 decades.  
- 2 out of 3 championship teams were either under investigation and put on probation after or on probation at the time of the championship game.
- 2 out of 3 championship teams featured a key starter who's dad was employed as an assistant coach to obtain the players' commitment.  
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Jesus Shuttlesworth on May 16, 2008, 12:19:17 PM
The NCAA penalizing Kansas would be breaking the NCAA clearinghouse agreement with the schools that determines the students eligibility.   Penalties would be on the high school... more scrutiny for student-athletes coming out of the school... and if a recurring theme is established the high school could be designated a diploma mill and kids would not be eligible to exit that school and play in the NCAA.  The clearinghouse cleared Arthur to begin NCAA play so he is eligible as long as everything he did at Kansas is legit.  And my dick is huge.

Wrong, on all counts. 
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Burgertime on May 16, 2008, 12:20:58 PM
*yawn*

Probably not the only player on ku to have his grades adjusted one way or another, probably half the players on KSU as well, along with every other program in america.


Standard "everyone cheats" talking point. 

ku hoops:
- On probation 5 out of the last 6 decades. 
- 2 out of 3 championship teams were either under investigation and put on probation after or on probation at the time of the championship game.
- 2 out of 3 championship teams featured a key starter who's dad was employed as an assistant coach to obtain the players' commitment. 



 :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Burgertime on May 16, 2008, 12:22:23 PM
The NCAA penalizing Kansas would be breaking the NCAA clearinghouse agreement with the schools that determines the students eligibility.   Penalties would be on the high school... more scrutiny for student-athletes coming out of the school... and if a recurring theme is established the high school could be designated a diploma mill and kids would not be eligible to exit that school and play in the NCAA.  The clearinghouse cleared Arthur to begin NCAA play so he is eligible as long as everything he did at Kansas is legit.  And my dick is huge.

Wrong, on all counts. 

Right, on all counts.

this is fun.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: sonofdaxjones on May 16, 2008, 12:31:16 PM
I do enjoy the kutard, "Everybody cheats" excuse.

Granted, I have felt for a number of years that K-State had to cheat a lot more in order to get competitive again. 

I just don't know if K-State will ever be able to match the amount of sleaze that consistently surrounds the ku basketball program.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Ben on May 16, 2008, 12:41:24 PM
Please note when his aau coach was getting $2,000 (probably more under the table) to "talk" at the ku basketball camp.





At K-State they give AAU coaches $300,000 salaries.

 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: NationalChamps on May 16, 2008, 12:46:50 PM
I do enjoy the kutard, "Everybody cheats" excuse.

Granted, I have felt for a number of years that K-State had to cheat a lot more in order to get competitive again. 

I just don't know if K-State will ever be able to match the amount of sleaze that consistently surrounds the ku basketball program.

You seriously believe that every program does not "Cheat" persay but, fudge numbers, use loopholes, scratch, claw, and do everything in their power to get kids eligible and able to play.

Everybody does. Get over it.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Jesus Shuttlesworth on May 16, 2008, 12:47:30 PM
Please note when his aau coach was getting $2,000 (probably more under the table) to "talk" at the ku basketball camp.





At K-State they give AAU coaches $300,000 salaries.

 :rolleyes:

Completely legal, and much less sleazy than paying a player's dad.  
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Oklahoma_Cat on May 16, 2008, 12:49:11 PM
I do enjoy the kutard, "Everybody cheats" excuse.

Granted, I have felt for a number of years that K-State had to cheat a lot more in order to get competitive again. 

I just don't know if K-State will ever be able to match the amount of sleaze that consistently surrounds the ku basketball program.

You seriously believe that every program does not "Cheat" persay but, fudge numbers, use loopholes, scratch, claw, and do everything in their power to get kids eligible and able to play.

Everybody does. Get over it.

Do you know how childish you sound?  "BUT MOMMMMMMMMY, THEY ALL DID IT TOOOOOOOO!"

 :crybaby:
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Ben on May 16, 2008, 12:55:46 PM
Please note when his aau coach was getting $2,000 (probably more under the table) to "talk" at the ku basketball camp.





At K-State they give AAU coaches $300,000 salaries.

 :rolleyes:

Completely legal, and much less sleazy than paying a player's dad.  


How is paying a 20-something AAU coach $300,000 a year any more ethical than hiring a guy with a military and coaching background as the Director of Basketball Operations?  It's not like the job requires overwhelming coaching experience... hell, your head basketball coach probably has less coaching experience than Ronnie Chalmers. 



Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: steve dave on May 16, 2008, 12:59:15 PM
Please note when his aau coach was getting $2,000 (probably more under the table) to "talk" at the ku basketball camp.





At K-State they give AAU coaches $300,000 salaries.

 :rolleyes:

Completely legal, and much less sleazy than paying a player's dad.  


How is paying a 20-something AAU coach $300,000 a year any more ethical than hiring a guy with a military and coaching background as the Director of Basketball Operations?  It's not like the job requires overwhelming coaching experience... hell, your head basketball coach probably has less coaching experience than Ronnie Chalmers. 

What is your guess on how many D-1 programs would hire 'te compared to how many would hire Ronnie (Post Ronnie's son playing and post Beasley)?
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: sys on May 16, 2008, 01:02:11 PM
Another serious question: Why are so many top athletes so dumb?  Passing high school is, like, really easy.

on the arthur thing, who gives a rat's ass.


this is a good question though.  amazing how so many athletes have trouble passing reqs. that are ridiculously minimal.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: steve dave on May 16, 2008, 01:03:57 PM
What is your guess on how many D-1 programs would hire 'te compared to how many would hire Ronnie (Post Ronnie's son playing and post Beasley)?

I will give you the answer:  Most of them would love to have 'te and zero programs would hire Ronnie...ZERO
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Pete on May 16, 2008, 01:04:08 PM
Please note when his aau coach was getting $2,000 (probably more under the table) to "talk" at the ku basketball camp.





At K-State they give AAU coaches $300,000 salaries.

 :rolleyes:

Completely legal, and much less sleazy than paying a player's dad.  


How is paying a 20-something AAU coach $300,000 a year any more ethical than hiring a guy with a military and coaching background as the Director of Basketball Operations?  It's not like the job requires overwhelming coaching experience... hell, your head basketball coach probably has less coaching experience than Ronnie Chalmers. 





Dude, elvis pressley had a millitary background.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Pete on May 16, 2008, 01:04:38 PM
In 2007, Arthur had 13 points, 12 boards, and 2 blocks against KSU in Manhattan.  K-State lost by 9.  They didn't have any post pressence that year.  That would have made a huge difference.
 
In the 2007 Big 12 tournament game that KSU lost to ku by 6, Arthur had 8 points, 3 boards, 3 steals, and a block in 17 minutes of play.  I think that made a positive impact on the game for ku.  Winning that game would have put KSU in the NCAA tournament, guaranteed.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: catphanatic09 on May 16, 2008, 01:05:35 PM
Another serious question: Why are so many top athletes so dumb?  Passing high school is, like, really easy.

on the arthur thing, who gives a rat's ass.


this is a good question though.  amazing how so many athletes have trouble passing reqs. that are ridiculously minimal.
Sys, if Arthur had went to Baylor and this broke, you would be all over them and ridiculing Drew for being a sleezeball and a cheater
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Jesus Shuttlesworth on May 16, 2008, 01:06:27 PM
Please note when his aau coach was getting $2,000 (probably more under the table) to "talk" at the ku basketball camp.





At K-State they give AAU coaches $300,000 salaries.

 :rolleyes:

Completely legal, and much less sleazy than paying a player's dad.  


How is paying a 20-something AAU coach $300,000 a year any more ethical than hiring a guy with a military and coaching background as the Director of Basketball Operations?  It's not like the job requires overwhelming coaching experience... hell, your head basketball coach probably has less coaching experience than Ronnie Chalmers. 



Ronnie Chalmers is a dad from Alaska who coached his kid.  Let's compare the two resumes, since ku fans like to pump up this Chamlers guy as being "qualified".

Quote
Chalmers came to ku from Bartlett High School in Anchorage, Alaska, where he was the head basketball coach for five seasons.


Quote
Chalmers earned his bachelor's degree in business administration from Wayland Baptist University and his master's degree in human resource management and development from the University of La Verne (Calif.). His basketball coaching dates back to 1985, including assistant and head coaching stints with Air Force squads as well as high school and summer league teams.


5 years as a high school coach in ALASKA is the only real experience of substance here.  I like how they try to pimp his coaching of "Air Force squads".  What exactly are they talking about?  A recreational team made up of Air Force guys?  Like a base team?  LOL.  The high school are summer league stuff is just as laughable.  

Now Dalonte Hill's resume:

Quote
A three-year letterman at Charlotte from 1997-2000, Hill played on three postseason squads for the 49ers under head coaches Melvin Watkins and Bobby Lutz.  As a true freshman in 1997-98, he averaged 4.2 points and 2.9 rebounds in 26 games with one start for the 49ers in helping the squad to the second round of the NCAA Tournament with a 20-11 overall record.  As a sophomore, the team captured the 1999 Conference USA Tournament Championship and once again advanced to the NCAA Tournament second round with a 23-11 record.  During the 1999-2000 season, Hill averaged 6.2 points and 3.5 rebounds in 23 games with 11 starts in helping Charlotte earn a Postseason NIT bid with a 17-16 record.  


Quote
Hill joined the Kansas State staff on April 5, 2006 after spending three seasons as an assistant coach at his alma mater, Charlotte, under Bobby Lutz.  He helped guide the 49ers to a 61-30 (.760) overall record and three consecutive postseason appearances from 2003-06, including a pair of trips to the NCAA Tournament (2004, 2005).  Hill also helped the program to a share of the 2004 Conference USA regular season title as well as runner-up finishes in C-USA in 2005.

What's that, actual D1 playing and coaching experience?  

Quote
Prior to joining the college ranks, Hill served two years as the head coach of the AAU’s DC Assault.  
   

We're talking about Assault teams that would run through Alaska like warm butter.    



Now, explain to me again how Ronnie is more qualified?  


Another ku talking point destroyed.  






Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Ben on May 16, 2008, 01:06:38 PM
Please note when his aau coach was getting $2,000 (probably more under the table) to "talk" at the ku basketball camp.





At K-State they give AAU coaches $300,000 salaries.

 :rolleyes:

Completely legal, and much less sleazy than paying a player's dad.  


How is paying a 20-something AAU coach $300,000 a year any more ethical than hiring a guy with a military and coaching background as the Director of Basketball Operations?  It's not like the job requires overwhelming coaching experience... hell, your head basketball coach probably has less coaching experience than Ronnie Chalmers. 

What is your guess on how many D-1 programs would hire 'te compared to how many would hire Ronnie (Post Ronnie's son playing and post Beasley)?


I think the better question would be: who in their right mind would hire FRANK MARTIN as their head basketball coach?  If it wasn't for Huggins leaving your basketball program hung out to dry, you would have never even considered FRANK MARTIN as a head coach.  

 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: steve dave on May 16, 2008, 01:07:47 PM
Please note when his aau coach was getting $2,000 (probably more under the table) to "talk" at the ku basketball camp.





At K-State they give AAU coaches $300,000 salaries.

 :rolleyes:

Completely legal, and much less sleazy than paying a player's dad.  


How is paying a 20-something AAU coach $300,000 a year any more ethical than hiring a guy with a military and coaching background as the Director of Basketball Operations?  It's not like the job requires overwhelming coaching experience... hell, your head basketball coach probably has less coaching experience than Ronnie Chalmers. 

What is your guess on how many D-1 programs would hire 'te compared to how many would hire Ronnie (Post Ronnie's son playing and post Beasley)?


I think the better question would be: who in their right mind would hire FRANK MARTIN as their head basketball coach?  If it wasn't for Huggins leaving your basketball program hung out to dry, you would have never even considered FRANK MARTIN as a head coach.  

 :rolleyes:

So you agree with the answer being most of them for 'te and ZERO for Ronnie?
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Saulbadguy on May 16, 2008, 01:08:20 PM
Ed Manning.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: catzacker on May 16, 2008, 01:08:47 PM
I just want to know in ku's recruitment (since '04) when they first received his transcripts and/or some documentation on his grades.  If, for some reason, they never, ever checked on his grades until after 9/01/05 (the fall of his senior year) then i'll buy the "we didn't know" talking point.  
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: sys on May 16, 2008, 01:08:57 PM
Sys, if Arthur had went to Baylor and this broke, you would be all over them and ridiculing Drew for being a sleezeball and a cheater

true, but not relevant to the present discussion.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: sonofdaxjones on May 16, 2008, 01:10:54 PM
I hope Ben has a good shoulder surgeon as he once again attempts to reach for something to point back at K-State. 

Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Ben on May 16, 2008, 01:16:29 PM
'Pad, my posts are in direct response to some of your comments.  You want to talk about AAU coaches getting paid... fine, but don't be a little bitch when I point out the fact that your school pays an AAU coach $300,000 a year to bring in a bunch of kids from the DC Assault.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: steve dave on May 16, 2008, 01:17:45 PM
'Pad, my posts are in direct response to some of your comments.  You want to talk about AAU coaches getting paid... fine, but don't be a little bitch when I point out the fact that your school pays an AAU coach $300,000 a year to bring in a bunch of kids from the DC Assault.

He coached D-1 for THREE YEARS prior to coming to KSU.  How much D-1 exp. did Ronnie have?
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Pete on May 16, 2008, 01:18:01 PM
'Pad, my posts are in direct response to some of your comments.  You want to talk about AAU coaches getting paid... fine, but don't be a little bitch when I point out the fact that your school pays an AAU coach $300,000 a year to bring in a bunch of kids from the DC Assault.

What does any of that have to do with the topic of this thread?

Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: catzacker on May 16, 2008, 01:19:40 PM
There's no doubt that arthur's life is better than it probably would have been had the teacher/principal/arthur not committed academic fraud.  He'd be coming out of JC ball right now instead of going top 15 in the lottery and I don't think anything will come of this, but I do find it all extremely amusing.  No f'ing way Bill didn't know Arthur was struggling academically and no f'ing way Bill didn't know that somehow, someway overnight Arthur all of a sudden wasn't struggling academically.  He probably didn't ask the question which is smart from a plausible deniability stand point.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Ben on May 16, 2008, 01:20:40 PM
'Pad, my posts are in direct response to some of your comments.  You want to talk about AAU coaches getting paid... fine, but don't be a little bitch when I point out the fact that your school pays an AAU coach $300,000 a year to bring in a bunch of kids from the DC Assault.

He coached D-1 for THREE YEARS prior to coming to KSU.  How much D-1 exp. did Ronnie have?


Ronnie isn't making $300,000 a year, and he's not an assistant coach.  You go ahead and tell me how much experience and credentials are required for the job of Director of Basketball Operations.  Over 20 years of coaching experience to go along with a military background would seem sufficient, if you ask me.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: steve dave on May 16, 2008, 01:21:31 PM
There's no doubt that arthur's life is better than it probably would have been had the teacher/principal/arthur not committed academic fraud.  He'd be coming out of JC ball right now instead of going top 15 in the lottery and I don't think anything will come of this, but I do find it all extremely amusing.  No f'ing way Bill didn't know Arthur was struggling academically and no f'ing way Bill didn't know that somehow, someway overnight Arthur all of a sudden wasn't struggling academically.  He probably didn't ask the question which is smart from a plausible deniability stand point.

After getting your hand slapped numerous times reaching into the cookie jar you adjust your cookie stealing game plan to avoid said handslaps.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Ben on May 16, 2008, 01:22:24 PM
So now K-State fans have come full circle... it went from the high school's fault to Bill Self's in less than 30 minutes.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: sonofdaxjones on May 16, 2008, 01:22:54 PM
Again, Dalonte Hill had 4 years of Division ONE assistant coaching experience prior to being named assistant head coach at K-State. 

Damn, you're such a hyper defensive little clueless bitch Ben. 
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Ben on May 16, 2008, 01:24:08 PM
Again, Dalonte Hill had 4 years of Division ONE assistant coaching experience prior to being named assistant head coach at K-State. 

Damn, you're such a hyper defensive little clueless bitch Ben. 



Now who's getting defensive? 
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Saulbadguy on May 16, 2008, 01:25:12 PM
So now K-State fans have come full circle... it went from the high school's fault to Bill Self's in less than 30 minutes.
It's just one of those things you assume when a basketball program is on probation as much as ku is.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: MonumentCat on May 16, 2008, 01:25:43 PM
'Pad, my posts are in direct response to some of your comments.  You want to talk about AAU coaches getting paid... fine, but don't be a little bitch when I point out the fact that your school pays an AAU coach $300,000 a year to bring in a bunch of kids from the DC Assault.

He coached D-1 for THREE YEARS prior to coming to KSU.  How much D-1 exp. did Ronnie have?


Ronnie isn't making $300,000 a year, and he's not an assistant coach.  You go ahead and tell me how much experience and credentials are required for the job of Director of Basketball Operations.  Over 20 years of coaching experience to go along with a military background would seem sufficient, if you ask me.

You forgot the most important credential of all:  Having a highly rated basketball player as a son.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Pete on May 16, 2008, 01:25:48 PM
So now K-State fans have come full circle... it went from the high school's fault to Bill Self's in less than 30 minutes.

What?  When was it ever the high school's fault.

Arthur lied to the NCAA.  Plain and simple.  Games that he played in should be forfeited.  Only honorable thing to do.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: sonofdaxjones on May 16, 2008, 01:26:00 PM
I am just clarifying reality for you Ben, you of course just can't accept the sleaze factor at ku, and always want to try (poorly) to point fingers back at K-State.  You're a typical "everybody does it" phogtard.

Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Jesus Shuttlesworth on May 16, 2008, 01:29:09 PM
Ronnie isn't making $300,000 a year

How much is he making?
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: dmartin on May 16, 2008, 01:30:05 PM
if Arthur had so much trouble keeping his high school grades passable, how did he make it through 1.5 to 2 semesters at ku?
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: catzacker on May 16, 2008, 01:30:29 PM
So now K-State fans have come full circle... it went from the high school's fault to Bill Self's in less than 30 minutes.

I'm saying that Bill knew.  Unless you honestly believe that Bill never asked or got any documentation on Shady from the time of his initial recruitment ('04) until September of '05.  Seriously, that's what you're saying?  Bill never, ever knew that Shady had academic problems and how bad they were and then one day he walks into Shady's door and they are all gone?
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Ben on May 16, 2008, 01:30:41 PM
So now K-State fans have come full circle... it went from the high school's fault to Bill Self's in less than 30 minutes.
It's just one of those things you assume when a basketball program is on probation as much as ku is.


Amazingly, ku and K-State are tied for the same number of major NCAA infractions... but don't let facts get in the way of your theory.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Saulbadguy on May 16, 2008, 01:31:11 PM
So now K-State fans have come full circle... it went from the high school's fault to Bill Self's in less than 30 minutes.
It's just one of those things you assume when a basketball program is on probation as much as ku is.


Amazingly, ku and K-State are tied for the same number of major NCAA infractions... but don't let facts get in the way of your theory.
Dax has already owned you on this subject. I suggest you bow out now.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: catzacker on May 16, 2008, 01:31:39 PM
So now K-State fans have come full circle... it went from the high school's fault to Bill Self's in less than 30 minutes.
It's just one of those things you assume when a basketball program is on probation as much as ku is.


Amazingly, ku and K-State are tied for the same number of major NCAA infractions... but don't let facts get in the way of your theory.

What is the violations score in basketball and football?  TIA.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: sonofdaxjones on May 16, 2008, 01:32:01 PM
Years of D1 coaching/administrative experience prior to being hired by their current employers:

Dalonte Hill: 3 years with a C-USA program that went to 3 straight NCAA tourneys

Ronnie Chalmers:  ZERO

Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Ben on May 16, 2008, 01:33:14 PM
So now K-State fans have come full circle... it went from the high school's fault to Bill Self's in less than 30 minutes.
It's just one of those things you assume when a basketball program is on probation as much as ku is.


Amazingly, ku and K-State are tied for the same number of major NCAA infractions... but don't let facts get in the way of your theory.
Dax has already pwn3d you on this subject. I suggest you bow out now.



LOL... your athletic department was penalized three times in the '90's alone... in three different sports.  'Pad just pretends like it doesn't matter because some of the infractions occurred in non-revenue sports.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: catzacker on May 16, 2008, 01:33:52 PM
So now K-State fans have come full circle... it went from the high school's fault to Bill Self's in less than 30 minutes.
It's just one of those things you assume when a basketball program is on probation as much as ku is.


Amazingly, ku and K-State are tied for the same number of major NCAA infractions... but don't let facts get in the way of your theory.
Dax has already pwn3d you on this subject. I suggest you bow out now.



LOL... your athletic department was penalized three times in the '90's alone... in three different sports.  'Pad just pretends like it doesn't matter because some of the infractions occurred in non-revenue sports.

they don't matter.  football and basketball please, tia.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Ben on May 16, 2008, 01:35:30 PM
Years of D1 coaching/administrative experience prior to being hired by their current employers:

Dalonte Hill: 3 years with a C-USA program that went to 3 straight NCAA tourneys

Ronnie Chalmers:  ZERO





...and again, Ronnie Chalmers is NOT AN ASSISTANT COACH.  The man is making a modest salary as the Director of Basketball Operations after 25+ years of a military and coaching background.  Seriously, try to compare that to a 20-something year-old AAU coach (with a recent DUI) making $300,000 a year.  


 :lol:
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: sonofdaxjones on May 16, 2008, 01:35:48 PM
ku Men's basketball has been on probation: 5 times (sport directly sanctioned all 5 times)

ku Football: 4 times  (Sport Directly sanctioned all 4 times)

K-State Basketball: 1 time

K-State football: 4 times  (number of probations that led to sanction against Football directly: 3)
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Ben on May 16, 2008, 01:36:42 PM
So now K-State fans have come full circle... it went from the high school's fault to Bill Self's in less than 30 minutes.
It's just one of those things you assume when a basketball program is on probation as much as ku is.


Amazingly, ku and K-State are tied for the same number of major NCAA infractions... but don't let facts get in the way of your theory.
Dax has already pwn3d you on this subject. I suggest you bow out now.



LOL... your athletic department was penalized three times in the '90's alone... in three different sports.  'Pad just pretends like it doesn't matter because some of the infractions occurred in non-revenue sports.

they don't matter.  football and basketball please, tia.


Well in that case... 2008 National Champions in men's basketball (37-3)  +  2008 Orange Bowl Champions in football (12-1)
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: catzacker on May 16, 2008, 01:37:18 PM
Thanks Dax.  Now on to my second question:  how would it be possible for a coach not to know for over a year a player's terrible academic standing?  
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Jesus Shuttlesworth on May 16, 2008, 01:37:28 PM

...and again, Ronnie Chalmers is NOT AN ASSISTANT COACH.  The man is making a modest salary as the Director of Basketball Operations after 25+ years of a military and coaching background.  


Again, what is his salary?  Also, don't comingle military service and coaching experience.  That's just stupid.  
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: sonofdaxjones on May 16, 2008, 01:39:08 PM
Years of D1 coaching/administrative experience prior to being hired by their current employers:

Dalonte Hill: 3 years with a C-USA program that went to 3 straight NCAA tourneys

Ronnie Chalmers:  ZERO







...and again, Ronnie Chalmers is NOT AN ASSISTANT COACH.  The man is making a modest salary as the Director of Basketball Operations after 25+ years of a military and coaching background.  Seriously, try to compare that to a 20-something year-old AAU coach (with a recent DUI) making $300,000 a year. 


 :lol:


Again for the retarded:

Number of years of Division One basketball Coaching/Administrative experience prior to current employer:

Dalonte Hill:  3 years

Ronnie Chalmers:  Zero
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: sonofdaxjones on May 16, 2008, 01:41:21 PM
Ben what is Ronnie "another dad hire for ku" Chalmers' salary??

Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Ben on May 16, 2008, 01:41:26 PM

...and again, Ronnie Chalmers is NOT AN ASSISTANT COACH.  The man is making a modest salary as the Director of Basketball Operations after 25+ years of a military and coaching background.  


Again, what is his salary?  Also, don't comingle military service and coaching experience.  That's just stupid.  



Why don't you look up the job description for Director of Baskeball Operations?  Discipline and organization skills are at the top of the list.  Better yet... why don't you give me a full-length, detailed description of what it would take to qualify for the job of Director of Basketball Operations.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: sonofdaxjones on May 16, 2008, 01:43:24 PM
What is his salary??

We don't care what his job description is (Jesus are you in for an eye opener when you hit the real world), how much money does ku pay the man??
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Saulbadguy on May 16, 2008, 01:44:01 PM
So now K-State fans have come full circle... it went from the high school's fault to Bill Self's in less than 30 minutes.
It's just one of those things you assume when a basketball program is on probation as much as ku is.


Amazingly, ku and K-State are tied for the same number of major NCAA infractions... but don't let facts get in the way of your theory.

Dax has already pwn3d you on this subject. I suggest you bow out now.



LOL... your athletic department was penalized three times in the '90's alone... in three different sports.  'Pad just pretends like it doesn't matter because some of the infractions occurred in non-revenue sports.
Uh, ku would do well to say that minor sports don't matter because they generally suck in all of them.  For that matter, go to Phog.net and mention wbb, volleyball, or whatever and you will get flamed.  
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: catzacker on May 16, 2008, 01:45:49 PM
I don't care about how much ronnie makes, frankly, considering the last two players to lead ku to a national championship had their dads on the bench, Ronnie (and Ed) probably weren't paid enough.

I really want to know if Self never, ever knew Shady's academic trouble and then wondered to himself how it all magically went away.  
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Ben on May 16, 2008, 01:46:43 PM
What is his salary??

We don't care what his job description is (Jesus are you in for an eye opener when you hit the real world), how much money does ku pay the man??



How the f*ck should I know, 'Pad?



So now K-State fans have come full circle... it went from the high school's fault to Bill Self's in less than 30 minutes.
It's just one of those things you assume when a basketball program is on probation as much as ku is.


Amazingly, ku and K-State are tied for the same number of major NCAA infractions... but don't let facts get in the way of your theory.

Dax has already pwn3d you on this subject. I suggest you bow out now.



LOL... your athletic department was penalized three times in the '90's alone... in three different sports.  'Pad just pretends like it doesn't matter because some of the infractions occurred in non-revenue sports.
Uh, ku would do well to say that minor sports don't matter because they generally suck in all of them.  For that matter, go to Phog.net and mention wbb, volleyball, or whatever and you will get flamed.  


You do realize that ku just won Big 12 titles in baseball and softball in '06, right?  
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: sonofdaxjones on May 16, 2008, 01:48:09 PM
I agree, K-State has to get into the dad hiring business, been saying that for years.  Lots of "Friend of the Family" stuff as well with KSU boosters befriending and financially supporting entire families of prospective major NCAA D1 talent. 

Well Ben, you keep saying he doesn't make "much" money, how much money is "not much"??  Well, as per usual you can't tell us. 
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Ben on May 16, 2008, 01:49:08 PM
I agree, K-State has to get into the dad hiring business, been saying that for years.  Lost of "Friend of the Family" stuff as well with KSU boosters befriending and financially supporting entire families of prospective major NCAA D1 talent. 

Well Ben, you keep saying he doesn't make "much" money, how much money is "not much"??  Well, as per usual you can't tell us. 


For crying out loud... you guys brought in the #1 player in the country along with Bill Walker and finished 21-12.

 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: fatty fat fat on May 16, 2008, 01:50:12 PM
Seriously, he couldn't pass algebra. As a senior in HS.

Christ.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: sonofdaxjones on May 16, 2008, 01:50:41 PM
Ben trying to change the subject as per usual.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Ben on May 16, 2008, 01:52:40 PM
Ben trying to change the subject as per usual.   :rolleyes:


Once again... my post was in direct response to your comments.  You want to talk about getting "down and dirty" with the recruiting business... but you guys brought in the best player in the country to go along with a guy that was regarded by many as a top 10 recruit and still couldn't finish higher than 3rd in the Big 12 and 21-12 overall. 

 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: sonofdaxjones on May 16, 2008, 01:57:39 PM
Yeah, because we all know what a weak league the Big 12 was this last year, and we all know how Freshman dominated teams have cleaned up in the Big 12.

Albeit, I don't recall in one post talking about the win loss records, conference finish etc. etc. of any Big 12 team in this entire thread. 



Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Ben on May 16, 2008, 02:02:43 PM
Yeah, because we all know what a weak league the Big 12 was this last year, and we all know how Freshman dominated teams have cleaned up in the Big 12.

Albeit, I don't recall in one post talking about the win loss records, conference finish etc. etc. of any Big 12 team in this entire thread. 







Sorry, was that little dose of reality too much for you to handle?  Oh, and I seem to remember a certain freshman-dominated team winning the conference in '06, but I disgress....
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: sonofdaxjones on May 16, 2008, 02:10:09 PM
Well dumbass that same "freshman oriented" in 2006 team was whom several years later????

Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Ben on May 16, 2008, 02:14:56 PM
Better then, better now.  I must admit... I enjoy arguing with you Dax.  You're the kind of guy I'd like to have on my side.


::: group hug :::


Have a great weekend.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: steve dave on May 16, 2008, 02:16:55 PM
My god, I turn my back for 2 seconds, come back, and Dax has totally destroyed BMW  :eek:

Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: fatty fat fat on May 16, 2008, 02:18:19 PM
fwiw, word on campus is Beasley set the curve in calc 1, and didn't even have to take the calc 2 final.

Arthur? Can't pass algebra.

Good stuff.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: scottb1987 on May 16, 2008, 02:19:03 PM
So now K-State fans have come full circle... it went from the high school's fault to Bill Self's in less than 30 minutes.
It's just one of those things you assume when a basketball program is on probation as much as ku is.


Amazingly, ku and K-State are tied for the same number of major NCAA infractions... but don't let facts get in the way of your theory.
Dax has already pwn3d you on this subject. I suggest you bow out now.



LOL... your athletic department was penalized three times in the '90's alone... in three different sports.  'Pad just pretends like it doesn't matter because some of the infractions occurred in non-revenue sports.

they don't matter.  football and basketball please, tia.


Well in that case... *****2008 National Champions in men's basketball (37-3)*****  +  2008 Orange Bowl Champions in football (12-1)

Fixed it for you, you forgot your asteriks
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: catdude33 on May 16, 2008, 02:21:50 PM
Is BMW seriously trying to argue that hiring a D1 assistant to be a D1 assistant somewhere else is worse than hiring a players dad, with zero experience, to be ANYTHING within a D1 college basketball program?  Come on BMW, you know better than this.  Stop being retarded.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Ben on May 16, 2008, 02:22:04 PM
So now K-State fans have come full circle... it went from the high school's fault to Bill Self's in less than 30 minutes.
It's just one of those things you assume when a basketball program is on probation as much as ku is.


Amazingly, ku and K-State are tied for the same number of major NCAA infractions... but don't let facts get in the way of your theory.
Dax has already pwn3d you on this subject. I suggest you bow out now.



LOL... your athletic department was penalized three times in the '90's alone... in three different sports.  'Pad just pretends like it doesn't matter because some of the infractions occurred in non-revenue sports.

they don't matter.  football and basketball please, tia.


Well in that case... *****2008 National Champions in men's basketball (37-3)*****  +  2008 Orange Bowl Champions in football (12-1)

Fixed it for you, you forgot your asteriks



Oh yeah... nice.  I sometimes forget that ku was the winningest National Champion in the history of college basketball with 37 wins.  Also the only National Champion to win a Final Four consisting of all #1 seeds.  Damn, it's great to be a Jayhawk.


Toodles!

 :ku:
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: SUPERKSUFAN on May 16, 2008, 02:30:58 PM

Toodles!


 :lol:
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: sonofdaxjones on May 16, 2008, 02:32:29 PM
Where were we??  Oh yeah, the sleaze factor at ku.

I wonder if the NCAA will try and investigate the date of the grade changes and then look at when ku first became involved with Arthur . . . doubtful.

Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: ksuno1stunner on May 16, 2008, 02:40:13 PM
this thread is gay
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: GoodForAnother on May 16, 2008, 03:08:54 PM
Please note when his aau coach was getting $2,000 (probably more under the table) to "talk" at the ku basketball camp.





At K-State they give AAU coaches $300,000 salaries.

 :rolleyes:

Completely legal, and much less sleazy than paying a player's dad.  


How is paying a 20-something AAU coach $300,000 a year any more ethical than hiring a guy with a military and coaching background as the Director of Basketball Operations?  It's not like the job requires overwhelming coaching experience... hell, your head basketball coach probably has less coaching experience than Ronnie Chalmers. 





It's all about the way you say things.

You say, "20-something AAU coach," I say, "player with 4 years assistant coaching experience."

You say, "military and coaching background," I say, "top-rated recruit's father who coached for five years in the Alaskan high school ranks."
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: GoodForAnother on May 16, 2008, 03:12:55 PM
We don't pay an AAU coach $300,000 a year.  We pay our top assistant $300,000 a year.  He's not an AAU coach.  Hasn't been for about six years or so.

You guys paid some dude from Texas $2,000 to come talk.

There is a slight difference.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: SUPERKSUFAN on May 16, 2008, 03:15:48 PM
We don't pay an AAU coach $300,000 a year.  We pay our top assistant $300,000 a year.  He's not an AAU coach.  Hasn't been for about six years or so.

You guys paid some dude from Texas $2,000 to come talk.

There is a slight difference.
and charge the City of Lawrence $6,400 for canceled hotel reservations
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: sys on May 16, 2008, 03:16:33 PM
this thread is gay

qft.  v.  bookcat.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: leawoodcat on May 16, 2008, 03:17:05 PM
'Pad, my posts are in direct response to some of your comments.  You want to talk about AAU coaches getting paid... fine, but don't be a little bitch when I point out the fact that your school pays an AAU coach $300,000 a year to bring in a bunch of kids from the DC Assault.

It is definitely high for an assistant, but hasn't he been worth every penny of it?

What is missing in this discussion is that there is a HUGE difference between hired a father than an AAU coach. You are actually buying a player. 'Te can't pass his salary on to a player and Beasley very easily could have just asked out of his commitment. 

The thing about the ku DOB position is that I am sure there was a large stack of qualified candidates who have done very similar jobs with other schools and they gave it to Daddy Chalmers who really only had one qualification which was better than most if not all of the other applicants - his son.

Seriously, BMW, you might try finding a debate you can win.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Darrell Arthur on May 16, 2008, 03:25:55 PM
wut
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: SuperSoulFighter on May 16, 2008, 04:40:21 PM
The fact is that ku won the national title.  They also won the Orange Bowl in January.

WHY IN THE HOLY HELL HAVEN'T WE:

1. HIRED KIDS' FATHERS
2. CHANGED PLAYERS GRADES
3. PAID PEOPLE TO TAKE TESTS
4. PAID FOR RECRUITS AND THEIR FAMILY'S TRIPS

Simply hiring somebody's AAU couch is obviously not enough.  If we're going to "play the game" then we need to "PLAY THE GODDAMN GAME!"

There is no reason that ku should out-cheat us.  The only thing that we might have a problem matching is the vast quantity of freshman whores that ku throws at their basketball players.

Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Legore on May 16, 2008, 05:35:57 PM
The fact that you even have to explain the difference between Dalonte Hill and Chalmers dad to ku fans says all you need to know about how ku fans think.  If Hill gives Beasley money out of his salary it's an NCAA violation.  When Chalmers gives his son money out of his salary it's his allowance.  Doesn't seem like it would be that hard to understand.   As far as package deals go they're not even in the same league.

Hill is the equivalent of the Townsend dude on the ku staff only Hill never got multiple NCAA programs on probation prior to coming to KSU. 
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: VA-Hawk on May 16, 2008, 07:29:11 PM
We did what we were supposed to. We reviewed his official transcripts just like the NCAA clearinghouse did. There was no way to know his "official" school transcripts were bogus.
[/quote]

Seriously, what part of this NCAA bylaw is not in play here?

14.1.2 Validity of Academic Credentials. As a condition and obligation of membership, it is the responsibility of a member institution to determine the validity of the information on which the eligibility of a student-athlete is based. Therefore, it is the responsibility of a member institution to determine whether a transcript is valid for purposes of applying appropriate NCAA legislation to the eligibility of a student-athlete when the institution receives notification, or otherwise has cause to believe, that a student-athlete's high school, preparatory school or two-year college transcript is not valid.


[/quote]
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: treysolid on May 16, 2008, 08:49:12 PM
i still don't get whole "military experience" thing.  i used to play on a city league softball team with a couple of army guys on it, so by ben's logic, that means i have military experience, right? 
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Winters on May 17, 2008, 09:08:59 AM
I bet he slept with that teacher to boost those grades! :yuck:
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: LimestoneOutcropping on May 17, 2008, 10:13:37 AM
fwiw, word on campus is Beasley set the curve in calc 1, and didn't even have to take the calc 2 final.

Arthur? Can't pass algebra.

Good stuff.


Actually, Arthur did in fact "pass" it.

Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: LimestoneOutcropping on May 17, 2008, 10:17:03 AM
i still don't get whole "military experience" thing.  i used to play on a city league softball team with a couple of army guys on it, so by ben's logic, that means i have military experience, right? 

My brother has been military for past 18 years.  I have played football, baseball, basketball, Nintendo with him.  I taught him how to cheat at Clue! 

18 years of military experience.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: geezer on May 17, 2008, 01:37:20 PM
I can't believe I read this entire thread.
BTW whoever registered as Darrell Arthur and now has 6 posts of wut is pretty funny.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: cyclist on May 17, 2008, 01:39:29 PM
I can't believe I read this entire thread.
BTW whoever registered as Darrell Arthur and now has 6 posts of wut is pretty funny.

Darrell Arthur is another of waks's socks...

:ohno: :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Darrell Arthur on May 17, 2008, 01:45:15 PM
I can't believe I read this entire thread.
BTW whoever registered as Darrell Arthur and now has 6 posts of wut is pretty funny.

Darrell Arthur is another of waks's socks...

:ohno: :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:

wut i play bassketbal
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: BullHawkWheel on May 18, 2008, 01:09:28 AM
I think we'll send Lew and MF'n Dooley down to Texas.  Bloodbath.

Seriously, what part of this NCAA bylaw is not in play here?

14.1.2 Validity of Academic Credentials. As a condition and obligation of membership, it is the responsibility of a member institution to determine the validity of the information on which the eligibility of a student-athlete is based. Therefore, it is the responsibility of a member institution to determine whether a transcript is valid for purposes of applying appropriate NCAA legislation to the eligibility of a student-athlete when the institution receives notification, or otherwise has cause to believe, that a student-athlete's high school, preparatory school or two-year college transcript is not valid.



So the NCAA is calling themselves invalid?  The NCAA CLEARED HIM.  They deemed him eligible to play.  if anything, the only thing an investigation will prove is the incompetence of the ncaa to accurately grant eligibility.  to try to spin this and say that ku had anything to do with Darrell Arthur's HS grades is pretty comical. 
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: BullHawkWheel on May 18, 2008, 01:23:23 AM
Please note when his aau coach was getting $2,000 (probably more under the table) to "talk" at the ku basketball camp.





At K-State they give AAU coaches $300,000 salaries.

 :rolleyes:

Completely legal, and much less sleazy than paying a player's dad.  


How is paying a 20-something AAU coach $300,000 a year any more ethical than hiring a guy with a military and coaching background as the Director of Basketball Operations?  It's not like the job requires overwhelming coaching experience... hell, your head basketball coach probably has less coaching experience than Ronnie Chalmers. 





It's all about the way you say things.

You say, "20-something AAU coach," I say, "player with 4 years assistant coaching experience."

You say, "military and coaching background," I say, "top-rated recruit's father who coached for five years in the Alaskan high school ranks."
[/quote/]



ronnie' hs coaching experience is moot.  he is not as basketball coach.  he is not one of the coaches making the gameplan, recruiting, taking stats, etc..  he is director of operations.  this is non basketball stuff.  main thing is DISCIPLINE.  he is in charge of keeping them on track and making sure they dont frack up.  i think his 25 yrs of military experience including DRILL INSTRUCTOR qualifies him to perform this certain job.  we just lucked out that we could kill 2 birds with one stone.  sign a top 10 kid who won us a nc, and as icing on the cake bring his dad who luckily fills a relevant need on our staff.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: treysolid on May 18, 2008, 09:41:18 AM
Please note when his aau coach was getting $2,000 (probably more under the table) to "talk" at the ku basketball camp.





At K-State they give AAU coaches $300,000 salaries.

 :rolleyes:

Completely legal, and much less sleazy than paying a player's dad.  


How is paying a 20-something AAU coach $300,000 a year any more ethical than hiring a guy with a military and coaching background as the Director of Basketball Operations?  It's not like the job requires overwhelming coaching experience... hell, your head basketball coach probably has less coaching experience than Ronnie Chalmers. 





It's all about the way you say things.

You say, "20-something AAU coach," I say, "player with 4 years assistant coaching experience."

You say, "military and coaching background," I say, "top-rated recruit's father who coached for five years in the Alaskan high school ranks."
[/quote/]



ronnie' hs coaching experience is moot.  he is not as basketball coach.  he is not one of the coaches making the gameplan, recruiting, taking stats, etc..  he is director of operations.  this is non basketball stuff.  main thing is DISCIPLINE.  he is in charge of keeping them on track and making sure they dont frack up.  i think his 25 yrs of military experience including DRILL INSTRUCTOR qualifies him to perform this certain job.  we just lucked out that we could kill 2 birds with one stone.  sign a top 10 kid who won us a nc, and as icing on the cake bring his dad who luckily fills a relevant need on our staff.


tell that to brandon rush's parole officer.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: leawoodcat on May 18, 2008, 11:23:23 AM
I think we'll send Lew and MF'n Dooley down to Texas.  Bloodbath.

Seriously, what part of this NCAA bylaw is not in play here?

14.1.2 Validity of Academic Credentials. As a condition and obligation of membership, it is the responsibility of a member institution to determine the validity of the information on which the eligibility of a student-athlete is based. Therefore, it is the responsibility of a member institution to determine whether a transcript is valid for purposes of applying appropriate NCAA legislation to the eligibility of a student-athlete when the institution receives notification, or otherwise has cause to believe, that a student-athlete's high school, preparatory school or two-year college transcript is not valid.



So the NCAA is calling themselves invalid?  The NCAA CLEARED HIM.  They deemed him eligible to play.  if anything, the only thing an investigation will prove is the incompetence of the ncaa to accurately grant eligibility.  to try to spin this and say that ku had anything to do with Darrell Arthur's HS grades is pretty comical. 

While I think most of us agree that ku is unlikely to get in trouble, I think it is very likely they were complicit with the grade change. Let's think logically for once:

Arthur is a recruit who is at great risk of not qualifying. ku is in touch with him regularly. Would it not be highly probable that the coaches who call him would talk about his academics, encourage him  and, yes, ask him how he did on his tests? 

If so, either Arthur told them the truth ,that he was flunking every math test he took, or Arthur was lying to them.

ku can hide behind the NCAA all they want, but it is not unlikely that they were complicit with the changing of a grade. It would be incredulous to believe that Arthur was not complicit with the grade changes and lied to the NCAA.

Yes, nothing will likely happen to ku.  Yet we all know that ku won the National Championship with a key player who clearly should not have been eligible. Congrats.







Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Ben on May 18, 2008, 08:44:27 PM
Go eat a d*ck, K-State fans... Arthur will be filing a lawsuit against the Dallas television station and when all is said and done could be compensated up to $30-40 million.  It's completely illegal to disclose a high school student's grades.  Furthermore, these are nothing more than allegations from a teacher who was FIRED from South Oak Cliff. 
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: fatty fat fat on May 18, 2008, 08:46:08 PM
Go eat a d*ck, K-State fans... Arthur will be filing a lawsuit against the Dallas television station and when all is said and done could be compensated up to $30-40 million.  It's completely illegal to disclose a high school student's grades.  Furthermore, these are nothing more than allegations from a teacher who was FIRED from South Oak Cliff. 

Go solve a quadratic equation...oh wait. You can't.



 :lol:
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: fatty fat fat on May 18, 2008, 08:54:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/fatty4ksu
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Ben on May 18, 2008, 08:56:41 PM
You give me a quadratic equation... I'll give you a least squares regression problem.  We'll see who prevails.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: catzacker on May 18, 2008, 08:58:28 PM
http://www.youtube.com/fatty4ksu

fatty solve for 'x' please

x = jersey + beasley + walker

Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: LimestoneOutcropping on May 19, 2008, 02:06:33 PM
Go eat a d*ck, K-State fans... Arthur will be filing a lawsuit against the Dallas television station and when all is said and done could be compensated up to $30-40 million.  It's completely illegal to disclose a high school student's grades.  Furthermore, these are nothing more than allegations from a teacher who was FIRED from South Oak Cliff. 

I think the same lawfirm that is supposed to drop the report on KSU will represent him.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: sonofdaxjones on May 19, 2008, 02:39:14 PM
Ben gets so  :curse: :curse: :curse: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: phagallenblowsballs on May 19, 2008, 04:36:50 PM
Go eat a d*ck, K-State fans... Arthur will be filing a lawsuit against the Dallas television station and when all is said and done could be compensated up to $30-40 million.  It's completely illegal to disclose a high school student's grades.  Furthermore, these are nothing more than allegations from a teacher who was FIRED from South Oak Cliff. 

Isnt eating dick another ku "trend"?  I think we'll (ksu) pass on this trend.

And I bet sonofosonofdaxjones is the same poster that got "abused in the rectum" by Mr CJ Giles....any takers?
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: GoodForAnother on May 19, 2008, 04:42:02 PM
Go eat a d*ck, K-State fans... Arthur will be filing a lawsuit against the Dallas television station and when all is said and done could be compensated up to $30-40 million.  It's completely illegal to disclose a high school student's grades.  Furthermore, these are nothing more than allegations from a teacher who was FIRED from South Oak Cliff. 


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: LimestoneOutcropping on May 19, 2008, 04:42:26 PM
Go eat a d*ck, K-State fans... Arthur will be filing a lawsuit against the Dallas television station and when all is said and done could be compensated up to $30-40 million.  It's completely illegal to disclose a high school student's grades.  Furthermore, these are nothing more than allegations from a teacher who was FIRED from South Oak Cliff. 

Isnt eating dick another ku "trend"?  I think we'll (ksu) pass on this trend.

And I bet sonofosonofdaxjones is the same poster that got "abused in the rectum" by Mr CJ Giles....any takers?

Quality first post.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: Cat Maniac on May 19, 2008, 10:22:18 PM
Go eat a d*ck, K-State fans... Arthur will be filing a lawsuit against the Dallas television station and when all is said and done could be compensated up to $30-40 million.  It's completely illegal to disclose a high school student's grades.  Furthermore, these are nothing more than allegations from a teacher who was FIRED from South Oak Cliff. 

Since it really wasn't his grade, is it actually illegal?

 :confused:
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: sonofdaxjones on May 19, 2008, 10:35:09 PM
Why do they always bring their man on man fantasies over here??

Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: phogdog on August 08, 2008, 04:03:47 PM
http://www.kansas.com/sports/updates/story/488059.html

Ya still beat us at your place
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: MOKSUAZ on August 08, 2008, 04:05:52 PM
WUT?!?!?!?!?
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: honk4tad on August 08, 2008, 07:16:05 PM
 :peek:
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: The42Yardstick on August 08, 2008, 07:30:40 PM
Fantastic thread, IMO.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: catdude33 on August 08, 2008, 07:37:48 PM
Quote
Arthur's high school finds no problem with grade changing

Probably could have chosen a better headline.
Title: Re: Serious D. Arthur Question for the board
Post by: mcmwcat on August 09, 2008, 01:27:49 PM
Quote
Arthur's high school finds no problem with grade changing

Probably could have chosen a better headline.

that's basically the gist of the story