KSUFans Archives
Fan Life => The Endzone Dive => Topic started by: Kat Kid on April 10, 2008, 07:10:10 PM
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Anyone want to post this on GPC?
We'll reap what we sow
The farm bill is loaded with pork and environmentally disastrous provisions.
By Daniel Imhoff
April 10, 2008
If you've ever driven through the southern end of California's Central Valley in September, you're familiar with the grids of lint-strewn cotton fields that blur by for nearly 2 1/2 hours. You might even have pondered the wisdom of planting such a thirsty crop as cotton on a million acres -- an area larger than Yosemite National Park -- in a state facing a water crisis. Then again, you might ask a similar question about the half a million acres of rice, a grain adapted to the monsoons of Asia, on the valley's northern end.
Cheap irrigation water is part of the equation, but there is another common denominator. It's a massive federal legislation package passed every five years known as the farm bill, which House and Senate members are scrambling to reauthorize by an April 18 deadline. Over the last decade, the farm bill has allowed the U.S. Department of Agriculture to shower tens of billions of dollars in subsidies on the nation's cotton and rice farmers (along with corn, soybean, wheat, sugar and milk producers). These subsidies flow whether growers need them or not. They flow even as they damage the environment and our nutritional well-being. They flow, all the while enabling the biggest farms to consolidate into mega-farms.
It wasn't always this way. The farm bill emerged during the Dust Bowl and Great Depression as a temporary financial safety net for family farmers. It included programs to promote soil conservation and distribute food surpluses to the needy. In the seven decades since that genie was let out of the bottle, however, the farm bill has become a high-stakes game of political horse-trading that has changed how we farm and what we eat. Today, more than a third of the budget goes to an elite group of commodity farms that grow grains and oilseed crops, mainly for feeding livestock and making processed foods (and now, fuels).
When current farm bill negotiations started in 2006, a proverbial food fight erupted. An array of nonprofit organizations, including Oxfam, Bread for the World and the Sustainable Agriculture Coalition, pushed for a bill that would emphasize farming livelihoods, more effective environmental protection and better nutrition. Prices on nearly all commodities, except cotton, have been soaring. Average 2008 farm household income is anticipated to reach $90,000 -- nearly 20% above the national average. Meantime, commodity farmers were set to receive $13 billion in direct and indirect payments, disaster bailouts, crop insurance and (some worthy) conservation incentives in 2008 alone. Surely, reformers argued, this was the right time to stop throwing money at giant farming operations already making hay in current markets.
They lobbied for a $250,000-per-farm subsidy cap, but that got struck down by a status-quo Senate. They pushed for more locally grown produce in public school cafeterias, a noble effort but minimally successful. The efforts to cut cotton farming subsidies -- which distort global trade -- fell short. They fought for full funding for the Conservation Security Program, which rewards farmers for good land stewardship -- reducing use of chemicals, diversifying crops, saving water, etc. Here, reformers won a large increase, but the fund remains vulnerable; year-to-year, it often gets robbed to fund commodity programs.
A few worthy new programs also were added: funds for organic farming research and to help pay organic certification fees; an expansion of local farmers markets; assistance for beginning farmers; and support for "specialty crop" producers, who for decades have been locked out of the subsidy game. (Specialty crops is farm bill-speak for crops that are actually edible, such as fruits, nuts and vegetables, which many California farmers supply to the nation.)
But, by and large, the farm bill song remains the same: Commodity agribusiness gets the lion's share; reformers get table scraps. Absent a more vocal public outcry, the agribusiness lobby, which spent $80 million in 2007, again holds the winning hand.
What can we citizens expect if the proposed $300-billion farm bill is signed into law? Federally subsidized feed -- corn, soybeans and cottonseed -- for animal factory farms that spread disease, greenhouse gases and dangerous working conditions wherever they set up shop. (Farm bill "environmental quality" programs will even pay up to $450,000 for the construction of lined "lagoons" to be filled with lethal concentrations of manure.) The continuation of America's obesity campaign, which ensures the cheapest and most widely available foods are made up of such high-calorie ingredients as high-fructose corn syrup, refined flours, saturated fats and unhealthy meat and dairy products. And more federally backed exports of California's water -- in the form of cotton and rice, mostly sold overseas.
But here's the one that's really hard to stomach. More than $4 billion in permanent disaster assistance to growers in the Northern Plains. The brainchild of Montana Democrat and Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, this is essentially a trust fund to guarantee income to farmers plowing up prairies and grasslands -- lands prone to drought and erosion -- to plant corn and wheat. Many observers fear a second Dust Bowl.
No final bill has been passed, and President Bush, who signed the extravagant 2002 farm bill, has threatened a veto if considerable reforms aren't made to commodity programs. There is still time to let everyone in Congress know that they should vote on the farm bill as if the nation's very health, future and security is at stake. Because it is. And we deserve better.
Daniel Imhoff is the author of "Food Fight: The Citizen's Guide to a Food and Farm Bill."
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Garth will be all over you like flies on cow manure.
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Average household income for farmer @ $90.000. How impoverished they are.
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Like 80% of the farm bill is food stamps. Let's cut that farm subsidy first. :popcorn: :dancin: :fiesta:
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Like 80% of the farm bill is food stamps. Let's cut that farm subsidy first. :popcorn: :dancin: :fiesta:
Let's cut all subsidies and just regulate/tax. If I see any more millionaires begging for bailouts/handouts I'm going to puke.
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Honestly, what do you expect when the balance of power tips from the private to public sector? Slash the size & scope of government, slash the amount of regulation, slash taxes, and you won't have to worry about any of it ... and you'll get a far more dynamic and productive nation to boot. :dancin:
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Price floors (subsidies) are terribly disruptive to the entire world food supply. The problem is that it's all controlled by lobbyists, so essentially, the lunatics are running the asylum.
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The Ethanol Mandate will disrupt the global food supply orders of magnitude more than any subsidy ever has.
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The Ethanol Mandate will disrupt the global food supply orders of magnitude more than any subsidy ever has.
ethanol from grain is one of the stupidest ideas humans have ever come up with. grain-fattened beef is up there too.
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The Ethanol Mandate will disrupt the global food supply orders of magnitude more than any subsidy ever has.
ethanol from grain is one of the stupidest ideas humans have ever come up with. grain-fattened beef is up there too.
Agree on ethanol. The grain-fattened beef does taste better. FWIW.
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Average household income for farmer @ $90.000. How impoverished they are.
Is that AGI? That can be very misleading, because most farmers have pretty big incomes, but a lot of expenses, too.
Most farmers I know would be cool if subsidies were eliminated. And it really is an aristocratic profession, in a way. You pretty much have to be born into farming to do it. It's damn near impossible for some random person from the suburbs to just say, "I want to start farming" and go do it full time.
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Average household income for farmer @ $90.000. How impoverished they are.
Is that AGI? That can be very misleading, because most farmers have pretty big incomes, but a lot of expenses, too.
Most farmers I know would be cool if subsidies were eliminated. And it really is an aristocratic profession, in a way. You pretty much have to be born into farming to do it. It's damn near impossible for some random person from the suburbs to just say, "I want to start farming" and go do it full time.
The full time part is true. But farming is a job that is very easy to get into on the side because it is one of the few were you can have a regular full time job as well. I know a lot of people that work a reg. 9-5 and have some cattle and wheat on the side. Crop sharing is another way to get into farming with little upfront cost if you have access to the equipment and time on your hands. Many a farmer will lease/rent you a tractor for a pretty reasonable price and many a freakin' rich landowner will give you a circle of ground for a cut of whatever you grow. My brother cropshared a circle of corn this year and made a killing. He has a full time job, no equipment and very little money up front. Now, corn will not sell for what it did this year every season but it's not hard to get into on the side.
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The equipment thing is kind of a biggie. I don't know anyone that leases equipment to random dudes. Plus, you have to put in a lot of cash up front (fuel, fertilizer, seed, not cheap) and hope it rains so you can get your payoff in six months. Risky as hell.
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Risky as hell.
Yeah. There are some things you can control, but I've always thought farming was pretty much like gambling with your life every year.
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The equipment thing is kind of a biggie. I don't know anyone that leases equipment to random dudes. Plus, you have to put in a lot of cash up front (fuel, fertilizer, seed, not cheap) and hope it rains so you can get your payoff in six months. Risky as hell.
Risky no doubt. But, you can easily get a farm loan from any rural bank for the list above. Rural banks fire out farm loans to anyone. The key to the equipment is knowing someone that has some and just asking. This kind of goes back to your, "Not anyone from the suburbs" thing because obviously a lot of people in JoCo don't know many farmers but anyone that lives in rural KS knows 50 people with farm equipment and most farmers are notoriously trusting (to their detriment in some instances).
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The equipment thing is kind of a biggie. I don't know anyone that leases equipment to random dudes. Plus, you have to put in a lot of cash up front (fuel, fertilizer, seed, not cheap) and hope it rains so you can get your payoff in six months. Risky as hell.
Risky no doubt. But, you can easily get a farm loan from any rural bank for the list above. Rural banks fire out farm loans to anyone. The key to the equipment is knowing someone that has some and just asking. This kind of goes back to your, "Not anyone from the suburbs" thing because obviously a lot of people in JoCo don't know many farmers but anyone that lives in rural KS knows 50 people with farm equipment and most farmers are notoriously trusting (to their detriment in some instances).
farm loans are even scarier than just putting up the cash.
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My in-laws are farmers, they sell Pioneer seed along with farming soy, wheat, corn, etc. I think it would suck, he works 7 days a week always doing crap around the farm, and customers are always needing their seed orders.
I always mention to my wife how stupid I think it is that they have a farm with no chickens. If I had a farm, i'd try to make it entirely self-sufficient, with cows, pigs, chickens, etc. You could feed the garbage to the pigs, they'd be happy.
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The equipment thing is kind of a biggie. I don't know anyone that leases equipment to random dudes. Plus, you have to put in a lot of cash up front (fuel, fertilizer, seed, not cheap) and hope it rains so you can get your payoff in six months. Risky as hell.
Risky no doubt. But, you can easily get a farm loan from any rural bank for the list above. Rural banks fire out farm loans to anyone. The key to the equipment is knowing someone that has some and just asking. This kind of goes back to your, "Not anyone from the suburbs" thing because obviously a lot of people in JoCo don't know many farmers but anyone that lives in rural KS knows 50 people with farm equipment and most farmers are notoriously trusting (to their detriment in some instances).
farm loans are even scarier than just putting up the cash.
Duh, but farmers don't deal in cash. Even big timers deal strictly on credit. If any farmer worth his salt ever amasses any amount of cash and DOESN'T buy more land or equipment he's not a REAL farmer.
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My in-laws are farmers, they sell Pioneer seed along with farming soy, wheat, corn, etc. I think it would suck, he works 7 days a week always doing crap around the farm, and customers are always needing their seed orders.
My dad is a much lazier farmer. He pretty much only works 7 days a week during wheat harvest, and once in a while when the cows are having babies. He visits us in KC, like, all the time. HIS FARM DOESN'T HAVE DEBT, EITHER!
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My in-laws are farmers, they sell Pioneer seed along with farming soy, wheat, corn, etc. I think it would suck, he works 7 days a week always doing crap around the farm, and customers are always needing their seed orders.
My dad is a much lazier farmer. He pretty much only works 7 days a week during wheat harvest, and once in a while when the cows are having babies. He visits us in KC, like, all the time. HIS FARM DOESN'T HAVE DEBT, EITHER!
They told me the secret to making $$$ in farming is to not have any debt on the land and equipment. They always try to get me to drive the combine, I refuse. Looks scary. :ohno:
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They always try to get me to drive the combine, I refuse. Looks scary. :ohno:
Duh, farm stuff is uber-scary :ohno: Plus, if you &@#% something up it isn't a, "oops, haha, I chipped some paint, sorry bro." It's, "Holy F*cking hell! I ran a $200K combine into your $75k sprinkler system and totally f*cked that sh*t up!"
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They always try to get me to drive the combine, I refuse. Looks scary. :ohno:
Duh, farm stuff is uber-scary :ohno: Plus, if you frack something up it isn't a, "oops, haha, I chipped some paint, sorry bro." It's, "Holy F*cking hell! I ran a $200K combine into your $75k sprinkler system and totally f*cked that sh*t up!"
I totally f*cked up some crap when I was little. Like, majorly.
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They always try to get me to drive the combine, I refuse. Looks scary. :ohno:
Duh, farm stuff is uber-scary :ohno: Plus, if you frack something up it isn't a, "oops, haha, I chipped some paint, sorry bro." It's, "Holy F*cking hell! I ran a $200K combine into your $75k sprinkler system and totally f*cked that sh*t up!"
I totally f*cked up some crap when I was little. Like, majorly.
DO TELL
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The worst was when I was like 11 and completely smashed a grain cart auger on one of those huge telephone polls that cut across fields and don't follow the roads. I was crying and sh*t, but everyone was cool, because I was 11. That was by far the worst. Lots of other little stuff, but nothing really memorable.
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The worst was when I was like 11 and completely smashed a grain cart auger on one of those huge telephone polls that cut across fields and don't follow the roads. I was crying and sh*t, but everyone was cool, because I was 11. That was by far the worst. Lots of other little stuff, but nothing really memorable.
I was once hauling ass (like, 19 mph) down some dirt road in a new swather and came upon some crapty old bridge with concrete side rails and just assumed I could fit. I about went through the windshield and old man Dave was not impressed.
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Did your farms have "farm dogs"? They have like 4. They "keep the coyotes away". All I see them do is kill cats.
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The worst was when I was like 11 and completely smashed a grain cart auger on one of those huge telephone polls that cut across fields and don't follow the roads. I was crying and sh*t, but everyone was cool, because I was 11. That was by far the worst. Lots of other little stuff, but nothing really memorable.
I was once hauling ass (like, 19 mph) down some dirt road in a new swather and came upon some crapty old bridge with concrete side rails and just assumed I could fit. I about went through the windshield and old man Dave was not impressed.
LOL!
I hit a mailbox once with a combine. Smashed the f*ck out of it. We had to go buy a new one. :peek:
Did your farms have "farm dogs"? They have like 4. They "keep the coyotes away". All I see them do is kill cats.
No. Coyotes are pussies. They don't do sh*t. I guess there's been a dog or two in the past, but they all get hit by cars and die.
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Did your farms have "farm dogs"? They have like 4. They "keep the coyotes away". All I see them do is kill cats.
Dogs just showed up (cats to). We never actually bought or obtained a dog or cat any other way. They could all stay if they liked Ol' Roy dogfood because that's what they got. Plus, if the dogs chase cattle you had to shoot them. Some would get shot, like a lot of times, and still run away. They would later show up like nothing happened and if they didn't chase cattle they were cool to stay and eat Ol' Roy dogfood. Agree with Rusty, coyotes are harmless. It's just an excuse for rednecks to shoot something.
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Did your farms have "farm dogs"? They have like 4. They "keep the coyotes away". All I see them do is kill cats.
Dogs just showed up (cats to). We never actually bought or obtained a dog or cat any other way. They could all stay if they liked Ol' Roy dogfood because that's what they got. Plus, if the dogs chase cattle you had to shoot them. Some would get shot, like a lot of times, and still run away. They would later show up like nothing happened and if they didn't chase cattle they were cool to stay and eat Ol' Roy dogfood. Agree with Rusty, coyotes are harmless. It's just an excuse for rednecks to shoot something.
Yeah, that's how they got their dogs. Just show up.
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Oh, actually one of the farm dogs mauled me when I was two or three years old (I still have a noticeable scar on my face). Grandpa busted a cap in his ass.
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Oh, actually one of the farm dogs mauled me when I was two or three years old (I still have a noticeable scar on my face). Grandpa busted a cap in his ass.
LOL, I bet Grandpa held the gun sidewise...gangsta style.
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Did your farms have "farm dogs"? They have like 4. They "keep the coyotes away". All I see them do is kill cats.
farmers hate to admit they keep animals around just cause they like them.
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My best farm accident story: (I worked for a farmer for 3 summers) I was hauling bails out of ditches with a small tractor and took the wrong angle out of the ditch. Ended up breaking off one of the front wheels. It was in my first month on the job as a HS JR, scared the crap out of me. Also bent the heck out of a disc driving down a narrow road with rock faces on each side. Other than that, I was pretty safe.
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Did your farms have "farm dogs"? They have like 4. They "keep the coyotes away". All I see them do is kill cats.
farmers hate to admit they keep animals around just cause they like them.
Exactly
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:banghead: getting up at 3am to drive in circles
:) :shy: :blank: :sleep: :eek:
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I tipped my uncles old Ford pickup on its side when I was in HS. Since it was a good old truck, all we had to do was grab the door handle and pull the door dent back out then bend the mirror back out. Of course, it did have many many coffee cans of nuts and bolts in the back. I'm sure we didn't manage to pick a good majority of those up. The biggest expense was about 20 gallons of diesel fuel dripping out of tank in the back into the ditch.
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:banghead: getting up at 3am to drive in circles
:) :shy: :blank: :sleep: :eek:
That was actually the best. Rural AM radio in the middle of the night is mind blowing.
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My two worst farming problems:
1. I was driving a really old tractor with a flatbed trailer hooked up to it that three co-workers were dumping feed off of and I lined up to go in (you tried to get like within 3 inches because the barrels all weighed 100lbs+ and I completely took on the corner of a concrete/rebar enforced feed trough at like 10 mph. Knocked over feed, knocked over coworkers, scared the sh1t out of cattle (only funny part) and got me tossin barrels instead of sittin' pretty in the driver's seat. No biggie really because I couldn't back up/park it.
2. At the dairy farm all of the cows are kept on concrete so there is just a massive amount of liquid crap that has to be dealt with and I worked the skid steer (open no windshield or anything) loading the sh1t spreader one day and didn't realize how you couldn't fill the bucket more than half full (unless you were good/not jerky) so I got "slimed" like a bad episode of Double Dare.
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And it really is an aristocratic profession, in a way. You pretty much have to be born into farming to do it. It's damn near impossible for some random person from the suburbs to just say, "I want to start farming" and go do it full time.
QFT for the most part but it does depend on what, precisely, you want to do. Most people could locate a few acres of pasture for sale and run a small number of cattle; they won't be efficient but as a hobby it can be done. Same with crops: there are antique tractors and 2-row combines out there that can be had for fairly reasonable prices and you can always find 40 acres for sale somewhere but it will take a mechanical savant to keep that sort of equipment operating. And unless you've taken a vow of poverty you're not going to make a living or build a business starting out in these manners.
To really get rolling in crop production you'll need ~$1M to purchase your equipment and another $2-3M minimum to purchase enough land to have the cash flow necessary to replace the equipment when it wears out. In a really good year your ROI will be in the 5% range (assuming you paid cash and didn't finance anything), in an average year it will be less than half that. The family farm is basically a hobby and/or a way to speculate on the future value of farmland, nothing more.
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The worst was when I was like 11 and completely smashed a grain cart auger on one of those huge telephone polls that cut across fields and don't follow the roads. I was crying and sh*t, but everyone was cool, because I was 11. That was by far the worst. Lots of other little stuff, but nothing really memorable.
I was once hauling ass (like, 19 mph) down some dirt road in a new swather and came upon some crapty old bridge with concrete side rails and just assumed I could fit. I about went through the windshield and old man Dave was not impressed.
in my younger days i used to swerve to the side of the roads to hit signs with the disk and chisel... never did anything to the equipment but always fun to watch the signs fly around... had to stop when our neighbor (worked for DOT) got an idea of what was going on.
accidents for children on the farm are just a matter of time. i've driven a truck into a tree, feed bunks, damn near ripped the hitch off a disk, bent 2 hydro swing swather hitches, etc... the ol man can only get so mad cause he realizes some 50yrs ago he did the same thing.
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When my grandpa was too old to harvest, but before anyone was willing to tell him that, his combine got hit by a train. Talk about f'ing stuff up. He got knocked out of the cab. On the plus side, he survived and got a helicopter ride out of it. On the downside, he was pretty much forced into retirement after that, which sucked. Because he loved that stuff.
Also, a farm dog owned by my other grandpa bit me right by the mouth when I was about three. You can see the scar, pretty easily if you know what you're looking for, but it's easy to miss. I'm pretty sure that dog got put in a burlap sack and drowned. Along with chasing cattle, biting the grandkids is a trait that is not looked upon favorably in farm dogs.
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farm dogs can be a pain in the old arse. we had a German shepherd mutt that was a teddy bear but one day snapped and bit my cousin on top of the head, he got a trip to the KState vet school to get test for rabies and put down. chasing cattle can cost farmers in many different ways. we usually try the bb gun route first then if that doesn't work step it up the "big guns"
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When my grandpa was too old to harvest, but before anyone was willing to tell him that, his combine got hit by a train. Talk about f'ing stuff up. He got knocked out of the cab. On the plus side, he survived and got a helicopter ride out of it. On the downside, he was pretty much forced into retirement after that, which sucked. Because he loved that stuff.
Also, a farm dog pwn3d by my other grandpa bit me right by the mouth when I was about three. You can see the scar, pretty easily if you know what you're looking for, but it's easy to miss. I'm pretty sure that dog got put in a burlap sack and drpwn3d. Along with chasing cattle, biting the grandkids is a trait that is not looked upon favorably in farm dogs.
By far the best filter-&@#% ever.
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lol @ all of your pussy grandfathers. when my grandfather's dog owned my younger brother's face, he was like, "meh, prolly the kid's fault." after that, my grandmother made him tie it up when especially small, especially retarded kids were around, but mostly it was like "hey dumbasses, leave the dog alone, he doesn't like you."
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when my grandfather's dog pwn3d my younger brother's face, he was like, "meh, prolly the kid's fault." after that, my grandmother made him tie it up when especially small, especially retarded kids were around, but mostly it was like "hey dumbasses, leave the dog alone, he doesn't like you."
He just couldn't bring himself to kill the dog.
Farmer version of FP, TC, etc. imo
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When my grandpa was too old to harvest, but before anyone was willing to tell him that, his combine got hit by a train. Talk about f'ing stuff up. He got knocked out of the cab. On the plus side, he survived and got a helicopter ride out of it. On the downside, he was pretty much forced into retirement after that, which sucked. Because he loved that stuff.
Also, a farm dog pwn3d by my other grandpa bit me right by the mouth when I was about three. You can see the scar, pretty easily if you know what you're looking for, but it's easy to miss. I'm pretty sure that dog got put in a burlap sack and drpwn3d. Along with chasing cattle, biting the grandkids is a trait that is not looked upon favorably in farm dogs.
By far the best filter-frack ever.
qft,
my mom has a cousin that got his hands mangled by a hay baylor back in the day.
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my mom has a cousin that got his hands mangled by a hay baylor back in the day.
did anyone shoot the bailer? sideways, gangster style?
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my mom has a cousin that got his hands mangled by a hay baylor back in the day.
did anyone shoot the bailer? sideways, gangster style?
it ended up in a creek.
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This thread has reminded me that no matter what, man has conquered nature by man's ability to bust a cap in any animal that bites man's offspring for being retarded.
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This thread has reminded me that no matter what, man has conquered nature by man's ability to bust a cap in any animal that bites man's offspring for being retarded.
Unless of course said animal is on the endangered species act at which point busting a cap in its ass is likely to end with one's family sporting cement shoes at the bottom of a lagoon somewhere.