KSUFans Archives
Sports => Snyder's Electronic Cyber Space World => Topic started by: chum1 on July 23, 2006, 10:52:05 PM
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Gone are the days of the old Wildcat offense that was quarterback run, running back run, quarterback run.
http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/story/5772240
God, that sounds good. I'm not at all sentimental about the option offense. Not for a second.
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Yeah, I'm really not gonna miss scoring 30+ every game, either.
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Gone are the days of the old Wildcat offense that was quarterback run, running back run, quarterback run.
http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/story/5772240
God, that sounds good. I'm not at all sentimental about the option offense. Not for a second.
Jesus &@#%. Consider not posting on this board ever again.
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I second that.
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Whoaaa...I'm so dizzy...I'm confused...where am I?
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/889/367610.gif)
We've had two (TWO!) good seasons in the last five years (one of which was only salvaged with a win in the conference championship game). These are desperate times. We need a total overhaul.
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Those two "good" seasons where better than anything Mizzou, ku, BU, OSU, TTU have accomplished in a season since the 60's.
I'd give up my friendship with "ds43fan" to experience 2002 again. What a fun team/season that was.
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Chum said he's not a fan of the option offense, not that he doesn't realize that KSU was successful because of it. Relax.
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Those two "good" seasons where better than anything Mizzou, ku, BU, OSU, TTU have accomplished in a season since the 60's.
Did I miss a memo instructing us to lower our expectations?
Chum said he's not a fan of the option offense, not that he doesn't realize that KSU was successful because of it.
Thanks for the clarification. I'll try to be a little more diplomatic: After the past two seasons, I'm looking forward to any and all changes. I won't miss anything that gets replaced. And of all the changes that will be taking place, my strongest personal preference concerns the option offense. I'm not the biggest fan of it.
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Change is....good.
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I'll take option football over becoming the kings of the 3-5 yard dump pass any day...which I'm afraid we're about to be...
And, for the record, KSU was FAR from an "option" team.
If the OL still sucks ass, it won't matter.
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I don't care if they 5 yard dump pass it all day long, as long as they're scoring and moving the ball.
What will piss me off is if it's always a 5 yard dump pass on 3rd and 8 ... ala a certain NFL team I know.
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This seems like a fair breakdown.
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I don't care if they 5 yard dump pass it all day long, as long as they're scoring and moving the ball.
What will piss me off is if it's always a 5 yard dump pass on 3rd and 8 ... ala a certain NFL team I know.
Exactly my fear.
I actually like the way USC calls plays...power running game (of course, their OL doesn't suck)...and deep strikes...
We need some taller receivers eventually.
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Our accomplishments the past 5 years will trump anything we do in the next 5 years.
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I think Ron Prince has king of the pre-christmas bowl game written all over him.
He'll be okay I think, but 8 or 9 wins is about the best its going to get IMO, and most years it'll be 7-5, 6-6, and 4-7 this year wouldn't shock me in the least.
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Yes, I don't see many seasons where we go 11-2..where our 2 losses come at a combined 7 points, and we end the season outscoring teams 254-30. Filthy.
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I see puss ball on offense ... I see a defense that may build back into a real group of hitters, that doesn't give up a lot of points.
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I see puss ball on offense
When I started watching a lot of ACC football, I was amazed at how good the offenses looked. They're less physical than the offenses in the BXII, but the players are much more skilled and teams move faster and with more fluidity. (I'd say pretty much the same thing about the ACC's basketball teams as well.) I wouldn't call it puss ball, though. I'd save that one for the PAC-10.
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The offense we had been running, that Snyder invented, is the single greatest thing to happen to football since the forward pass.
In 10 years, 80% of offenses in all of football will resemble it very closely. It is a huge mistake to go away from it, taking a clear step backwards.
With that being said, our new offense still could be good with the right person at quarterback, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it isn't as different as some believe, less pure option and fullbacks, but similar in other respects.
And on the ACC, of course their offenses look great, that happens when you have incredible athletes, but anyone who saw Texas in the NC saw what happens when you have a tremendous athlete running Snyder's offense, it becomes the most unstopable force imaginable.
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The offense we had been running, that Snyder invented, is the single greatest thing to happen to football since the forward pass.
In 10 years, 80% of offenses in all of football will resemble it very closely. It is a huge mistake to go away from it, taking a clear step backwards.
Isn't it odd that it would take teams twenty years to catch onto the greatest thing to happen since the forward pass? Why isn't it catching on more?
And on the ACC, of course their offenses look great, that happens when you have incredible athletes, but anyone who saw Texas in the NC saw what happens when you have a tremendous athlete running Snyder's offense, it becomes the most unstopable force imaginable.
We've had athletes that compare favorably to those on teams like Clemson, Virginia, and NC State. I'd love to have a Vince Young type of player be our quarterback. Unfortunately, we weren't able to land the only one that has ever come along. In any case, USC's defense wasn't exactly a monster.
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Snyder's offense was a juggernaut.
With the right people in the offense, getting 400-500 yards of offense was the norm. Rarely, did you see a Snyder offense that didn't make that happen. The 1998 offense scored over 600 points of offense that year. In 2000, that offense scored almost that same amount. In 2002 and 2003, over 500 points were scored during the season, and almost 5000 yards of offensive production.
The key, though, is getting the right people into the system and getting them to flourish in it. Look at Nick Leckey. No one wanted him more than Snyder and became the only true freshman lineman to start on a Snyder team in 2000. That says a lot when you consider who was playing for us that year.
However, it was also predictable and you could hear fans just grumble when they knew what the play was. When I was at Snyder's final game, the biggest complaint was about how predictable we were. Of course, once Archer sealed it, the place went nuts.
Snyder was an offensive genius. Prince would do well to get some pointers from him.
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Isn't it odd that it would take teams twenty years to catch onto the greatest thing to happen since the forward pass? Why isn't it catching on more?
It is more and more all the time. We only started using it in '97, so it hasn't even been 10 years since it came into existence. The more national championships that are won using it, the more other teams will start to pick it up.
P.S.
Legend? I've never heard of you.
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It is more and more all the time. We only started using it in '97, so it hasn't even been 10 years since it came into existence. The more national championships that are won using it, the more other teams will start to pick it up.
You said that it would be another ten years before 80% of the teams would be using it. So, I figured 1997 to 2016 is about twenty years. As of now, I don't see the evidence to support such a trend, at least not from the top teams. Va Tech is the only one I can think of that has consistently integrated a lot of designed QB runs into their offense over an extended period of time.
P.S.
Legend? I've never heard of you.
It's a dumb joke. I still like that post, though.
http://mb21.scout.com/fkansasstatefrm14
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This is a bullcrap thread.
Prince is also recruiting Michael Bishop type players. Look at the dual threats he's offered.
If he lands one then the system will change to fit abilitiy. Thats what he said. Fit system to players.
:fiesta:
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This is a bull@#%$ thread.
Prince is also recruiting Michael Bishop type players. Look at the dual threats he's offered.
If he lands one then the system will change to fit abilitiy. Thats what he said. Fit system to players.
:fiesta:
and that's partly why I say even our supposed "West Coast offense" might not be what you think it is.
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I loved the Chad May offense.
MCMW
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Our accomplishments the past 5 years will trump anything we do in the next 5 years.
Not a Prince fan, eh?
There's a good chance you're right about this though. Sad to say we would have the same result if Snyder would have stayed.
I'm remaining optomistic, however.
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Our accomplishments the past 5 years will trump anything we do in the next 5 years.
I wholeheartedly disagree with that.
I think we have a great chance to at least equal the last 5, which basically means making it to 2 Championship games and 3 bowl games.
We can do that.
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Prince is also recruiting Michael Bishop type players...If he lands one then the system will change to fit abilitiy. Thats what he said. Fit system to players.
Is this the same Prince that once said our scheduling philospohy would remain the same? And that no changes to the uniforms would be made? How was Hagans utilized at UVA?
I loved the Chad May offense.
That was a fun offense.
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opcat pretty much destroyed you there "chum#1"
This is a bull@#%$ thread.
Prince is also recruiting Michael Bishop type players. Look at the dual threats he's offered.
If he lands one then the system will change to fit abilitiy. Thats what he said. Fit system to players.
:fiesta:
:love:
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I don't understand what people mean with the damn fiesta curtain thingy. I never have.
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This is for you, fatty:
http://www.shower-curtains.com/fiesta-shower-curtain.html
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That was a fun offense.
It was a blast to watch.
Compare the types of players Prince is recruiting to what we had in the program then...pretty similar.
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Do you guys honestly think Prince will put out a team better than the 2002 or 2003 squads? I mean, one of his team may ACCOMPLISH more (Luckily win the CCG, get a easy BCS opponent..win) but those were both top 10/5 squads that were a few pieces away from a NC appearance.
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Do you guys honestly think Prince will put out a team better than the 2002 or 2003 squads? I mean, one of his team may ACCOMPLISH more (Luckily win the CCG, get a easy BCS opponent..win) but those were both top 10/5 squads that were a few pieces away from a NC appearance.
Hard to tell. The 2002 and 2003 teams were probably the best units in the nation. Had Ell not got injured, it would be back to back NC's.
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Do you guys honestly think Prince will put out a team better than the 2002 or 2003 squads?
No, but that would be the case regardless of the offensive scheme.
those were both top 10/5 squads that were a few pieces away from a NC appearance.
Had Ell not got injured, it would be back to back NC's.
I must be lost after all. If you have more than one loss, you didn't just miss out on the BCS championship game. There aren't ten teams that just missed being in the championship game.
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/889/367610.gif)
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Do you guys honestly think Prince will put out a team better than the 2002 or 2003 squads?
No, but that would be the case regardless of the offensive scheme.
those were both top 10/5 squads that were a few pieces away from a NC appearance.
Had Ell not got injured, it would be back to back NC's.
I must be lost after all. If you have more than one loss, you didn't just miss out on the BCS championship game. There aren't ten teams that just missed being in the championship game.
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/889/367610.gif)
Of course, the losses kept them out, but in both years, when KSU had losses, Ell was out or just coming back off injury.. and let's not forget that the losses were by less than 14 points COMBINED each year.
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I don't get the wabash station reference. At, at all.
:numb:
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Of course, the losses kept them out, but in both years, when KSU had losses, Ell was out or just coming back off injury.. and let's not forget that the losses were by less than 14 points COMBINED each year.
In 2002 Miami and Ohio State both went undefeated in the regular season. Even if we had gone undefeated we would still have been behind each in both polls and, consequently, out of the BCS championship game.
Additionally, consider the following:
UGA lost one regular season game by 7 points.
USC lost two regular season games by a combined 10 points.
OU lost two regular season games by a combined 14 points
Iowa lost one regular season game by 5 points.
Texas lost two regular season games by a combined 15 points.
If we’re entitled to say that we just missed out on playing in the national championship game, so are all of these other teams. They are just as entitled to make excuses for their losses as we are. It would be totally absurd for a fan of any of the above schools to approach a fan another and say, “our teams just missed meeting in the 2002 BCS championship game.” There are too many permutations for this to be a worthwhile assessment. The claim in question, however, entails that this would not be absurd at all.
You can do the same for 2003, but don’t forget to include all of the teams with three regular season losses as well.
I don't get the wabash station reference. At, at all.
Wabash = absurd, convoluted theories + a low tolerance for dissension
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I can't wait to hear what the Snyder offense haters have to say when we ring up 3 on the board like Virginia did last year.
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Snyder Offense Haters?
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Do you guys honestly think Prince will put out a team better than the 2002 or 2003 squads? I mean, one of his team may ACCOMPLISH more (Luckily win the CCG, get a easy BCS opponent..win) but those were both top 10/5 squads that were a few pieces away from a NC appearance.
True and I am the biggest Ell Roberson fan alive and I don't know if we'll ever have a player quite of his caliber, but I don't think it is out of the realm of possibilities that we are good (great) under Prince immediately.
I would like to hope Prince will pull a Stoops and win the National Title in his second year.
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I can't wait to hear what the Snyder offense haters have to say when we ring up 3 on the board like Virginia did last year.
When's the last time KSU's been shut out?
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1996 Colorado
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The Last Time Kansas State…
…played in a bowl game…2003 (Fiesta Bowl vs. Ohio State)
…missed a bowl game…2005
…pitched a shutout…2003 (Iowa State)
…was shutout…1996 (Colorado)
…scored 50 points…2005 (North Texas)
…went undefeated…never
…won a conference title…2003 (Big 12)
…had a 3,000-yard passer…never
…had a 1,000-yard rusher…2004 (Darren Sproles)
…had a 1,000-yard receiver…2003 (James Terry)
…had a first-round draft choice…2003 (CB Terence Newman)
via www.collegefootballnews.com
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1996 Colorado
Ah, the Brian Kavanaugh offense.
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It seems like at some point last season, I heard that it had been a LONG time since KSU had even scored less than 20 in a game...
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I remember that KSU and USC (?) were the only two teams to score at least 20 in every game in 2004.
We went from the UT game in 2002 to the ku game in 2005 without scoring fewer than 20.
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That is impressive.
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That is impressive.
And with that we should recheck the first post of this thread.
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Did we really utilize the "option" offense that much in 2004/2005?
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And with that we should recheck the first post of this thread.
I checked. My preference is still the same. I'm sure yours is, too. The difference is that I'm not confusing an offense's success with it's scheme. I always thought that success was determined more by things like bigger, stronger, faster players and good coaching. If there really was such a close relationship between scheme and success, wouldn't everyone run the same offense?
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And with that we should recheck the first post of this thread.
I checked. My preference is still the same. I'm sure yours is, too. The difference is that I'm not confusing an offense's success with it's scheme. I always thought that success was determined more by things like bigger, stronger, faster players and good coaching. If there really was such a close relationship between scheme and success, wouldn't everyone run the same offense?
That's the point. The people in the system is what made it work. Snyder's offense required he get the right people in it to work effectively, although he created this option based system when Bishop came around. The Single Wing offense Snyder pretty much wrote the book on getting the right players for and making it work.
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1996 Colorado
i remember this game...wasn't the weather in cu really bad that night? i think cu's only td was in spec teams or from a turnover. neither team could score.
i think there was a long streak before this one too...if it weren't for this game, we'd have the longest non-shutout streak in the nation (since @wash in 1991?)?
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1996 Colorado
i remember this game...wasn't the weather in cu really bad that night? i think cu's only td was in spec teams or from a turnover. neither team could score.
i think there was a long streak before this one too...if it weren't for this game, we'd have the longest non-shutout streak in the nation (since @wash in 1991?)?
'96 Colorado was 0 to 12. Could've been all field goals... who knows.
The time before that was again against colorado in 91 score: 0 to 10; then '89 arizona state 0-31; then '87 colorado again 0-41; '86 Northern Iowa 0-17 AND Nebraska in the same year 0-38; Colorado again in '85 0-30. those are all the shutouts I could find in the past 20 years.
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96 CU, -12 windchill at KO. It was a very cold night and the field was a sheet of ice until after the half. That was my only trip to Boulder.
The offensive discussion is nice, but offense has been far from our problem in the last two years, though certainly it wasn't great. We've just had mediocre teams the last couple years; more so IMHO subpar special teams that didn't create points/field position on a regular basis combined with a defense that was bend but not break that broke too often. We've been inconsistent at best the past two season for various reasons; subpar athletes/play by both lines, subpar recruiting leading to lack of depth/overall team speed (which really affects special teams), and what appeared to be a coaching staff in need of some major changes.
That said, I have no idea what the result of the next couple of years will be. My initial reaction is that I like Prince but the man hasn't coached a game yet. My tendancy is to believe that at best we may be the next Texas Tech (not necessarily in terms of offense, but a consistent lower tier bowl team with the occasional Cotton Bowl appearance) of the Big 12 and won't likely be a national force like we were in the late 90s early 00s, but I could be wrong.
As far as Prince's offense goes, I'll wait and see. Yes, it will be very different, but I guarantee that if he can average 25 points a game over time that the nature of the offense won't matter. Snyder's offense was brilliant over the course of time, and his switch too a focus on QB running game with a vertical passing game combined with some power run was very tough to defend. However, Prince had to put his own stamp on the program and he's going to run what he knows, and with his experience with several NFL coaches plus a former NFL coach in Grogh I'm not surprise it will look more like an offense you would see on Sundays.
I do not think most teams will go to QB run games b/c its tough to find the players to run it, and most coaches know that UT's success with it was not something you can simply reproduce b/c they got that once in 15-20 year player in Vince Young that made winning a NC running half a dozen plays out of 1 or 2 formations a reality. Michael Bishop was the same-type player for us, we just fell short of what UT/Young was able to do.
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I went to that 1996 CU game too, it was cold as hell in Boulder that night.
If I remember correctly, they had to plow the field at halftime.
I specifically remember that night for a different reason though, it was the night I discovered New Belgium's Sunshine Wheat at a bar somewhere in Boulder where they sold 32oz mugs of it for $5.