KSUFans Archives
Sports => Frank Martin's OOD sponsored by the "Angriest Fans in America" => Topic started by: michigancat on February 28, 2008, 07:05:28 AM
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One can only appreciate Martin's goal to bring the very best talent to Kansas State. But it's also fair to warn that many previous Wildcat coaches have had a similar mission statement, but come up short.
The players being cheered today came under the most unique of circumstances. Michael Beasley, Bill Walker, Jacob Pullen, etc., each came because of Bob Huggins, and/or, the hiring of the respective AAU and junior college coaches of the desired players.
With no disrespect to Kansas State, these players likely couldn't have found Manhattan on a Kansas map prior to their signing.
Huggins left K-State after one season, primarily to go home to his alma mater of West Virginia. But in private conversations, he admitted that recruiting was going to be much more difficult than expected.
It's just the way it's been at Kansas State for decades.
Mitch Richmond only came when KSU hired Dana Altman, who was his junior college coach. Steve Henson, and Lon Kruger before him, were hardly high-profile recruits. Ed Nealy had it down to K-State or an Ivy League school. K-State hired assistant coach Mark Reiner to secure the talents of Tyrone Ladson, with Curtis Redding coming along as the back-end of the package deal. Had Rolando Blackman not come to K-State, he would have played at Duquesne. And K-State can thank former North Carolina coach Dean Smith for the arrival of Mike Evans.
No matter the sport, it's been the same when it comes to recruiting high school talent to KSU. The best coaches Kansas State has ever had — Bill Snyder in football and Cliff Rovelto in track — will say so.
Oh, there was the Cinderella story of homebred Kendra Wecker, Laurie Koehn and Nicole Ohlde staying close to home, but these tales are few and far between.
This isn't meant to be doom-and-gloom stuff, but it's only what's been visible to one and all for decades.
:dancin: :dancin: :dancin:
http://www.themercury.com/K%2DStateSports/article.aspx?articleId=7d4aa56d8c274b9bb98ce48cc95209c4
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He kind of ruined it when he compared to WBB.
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Amazing that he took the time to write about something other than his kids. I am in desperate need of a Travis or Kelly update!!! :mad:
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He kind of ruined it when he compared to WBB.
I thought he ruined it when he listed a decade's worth of All-American's to illustrate how KSU needs special circumstances to recruit. JMO.
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One premise that is irrelevant is this 'finding Manhattan on a map' stuff. Honestly, student athletes would probably be just as hard-pressed to find a lot of 'major' college cities on a map, such as South Bend, State College, Gainesville, Austin, Lawrence, Auburn, Chapel Hill, East Lansing, Norman, Boulder or Athens, just to name a few. The important thing in recruiting is having name recognition built upon an extended record of athletic success and TV exposure. We're headed the right direction, especially if we can put together a nice run of victories as the season winds up.
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We just might have the most inexperienced football and basketball coaches in the nation with the biggest chips on their shoulders. Will Franks stubbornness make his career at KSU a short one or make him a winner that moves on to something bigger? Stay tuned.
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It's simple really:
- Bad coaches who lose and find themselves going into self preservation mode talk about how hard it is to recruit to Manhattan. These individuals are responsible for the untrue characterization of KSU and Manhattan.
- Good coaches who win don't make excuses and have a much easier time recruiting. It is these individuals who speak about how Manhattan is actually a positive selling point in recruiting.
Bottom line, you can't sell what you don't believe in, no matter what it is. Winners believe in themselves and those around them. Losers doubt themselves and everyone around them.
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It's simple really:
- Bad coaches who lose and find themselves going into self preservation mode talk about how hard it is to recruit to Manhattan. These individuals are responsible for the untrue characterization of KSU and Manhattan.
Also good coaches who happen to be dumbass drunks.
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has anyone stopped for a second to think that maybe it is, in fact, hard to recruit to manhattan?
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has anyone stopped for a second to think that maybe it is, in fact, hard to recruit to manhattan?
It is compared to a lot of places. Compared to the rest of the Big XII, it shouldn't be significantly harder.
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Geography education is overlooked and pathetic in high schools these days. IMHO this could work to our advantage. Sportscenter proximity is the most important thing to an athlete.
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We have an odd fan base/administration (in general and including myself)….we lambast a coach/columnist/radio talk show host for asserting that it is difficult to recruit to Manhattan and in the same breathe talk about finding a "right fit" because Manhattan is a "unique" place (unique basically being a nice way to describe the difficulty in getting kids to come to KSU)....then when we do get those recruits to come here, the person that did that was a miracle worker OR was using tactics/methods that, while common practice in their industry, are looked upon as not the traditional way of doing things. Christ, ku hired Ronnie Chalmers, Ed Manning, paid Wilt Chamberlin...UCLA practically laughs at how much their boosters paid all their players and yet Wooden is a saint.
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has anyone stopped for a second to think that maybe it is, in fact, hard to recruit to manhattan?
It is compared to a lot of places. Compared to the rest of the Big XII, it shouldn't be significantly harder.
imo we're in the 8-12 tier of hardness to recruit to in the b12, just imo
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has anyone stopped for a second to think that maybe it is, in fact, hard to recruit to manhattan?
It is compared to a lot of places. Compared to the rest of the Big XII, it shouldn't be significantly harder.
imo we're in the 8-12 tier of hardness to recruit to in the b12, just imo
just bball, or in general? because, like, Boulder should be easy to recruit to because of setting/location or whatever, but they really don't recruit well at all in bball.
list tiers, plz.
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gotta take everything into consid, cause recruits do imo.
tiers (schools not listed in any order)
Us- ISU, KSU, NU, TT
Them- UT, ku, OU , OSU (facilities + recent tradition), MU (facilities), BU (barely), CU (Boulder), A&M
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has anyone stopped for a second to think that maybe it is, in fact, hard to recruit to manhattan?
It is compared to a lot of places. Compared to the rest of the Big XII, it shouldn't be significantly harder.
imo we're in the 8-12 tier of hardness to recruit to in the b12, just imo
Around 8 is probably right.
Here is my ranking in terms of recruiting ease based upon location alone:
1) Austin
2) Boulder
3) College Station
4) Norman
5) Lincoln
6) Lawrence
7) Columbia
8) Manhattan
9) Stillwater
10) Ames
11) Waco
12) Lubbock
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gotta take everything into consid, cause recruits do imo.
tiers (schools not listed in any order)
Us- ISU, KSU, NU, TT
Them- UT, ku, OU , OSU (facilities + recent tradition), MU (facilities), BU (barely), CU (Boulder), A&M
If you take into consideration "everything", CU is easily the hardest place to recruit for bball in the Big 12.
ku and UT are clearly tier 1.
aTm could possibly be in it's own tier due to Houston proximity/facilities.
OU/OSU/MU/BU/KSU/ISU/maybe TT/maybe NU are all about the same.
CU would be last.
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Our biggest geographic disadvantage is our distance from a signifcant TV market and metro area.
Also, speaking of geography and sportscenter ... how many student athletes can find Bristol, Conn., on a map??
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1) Austin
2) Boulder
3) College Station
4) Norman
5) Lincoln
6) Lawrence
7) Columbia
8) Manhattan
9) Stillwater
10) Ames
11) Waco
12) Lubbock
:lol:
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being on natl tv lots and enjoying good relationships with aau coaches are 7-8 times more important than manhattan's location in recruiting.
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being on natl tv lots and enjoying good relationships with aau coaches are 7-8 times more important than manhattan's location in recruiting.
QFT, I wouldn't trade Curtis Malone sitting at pretty much every Big 12 home game for Ames' proximity to Des Moines, or even Norman's incredible proximity to OKC!
Only an idiot would.
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gotta take everything into consid, cause recruits do imo.
tiers (schools not listed in any order)
Us- ISU, KSU, NU, TT
Them- UT, ku, OU , OSU (facilities + recent tradition), MU (facilities), BU (barely), CU (Boulder), A&M
If you take into consideration "everything", CU is easily the hardest place to recruit for bball in the Big 12.
ku and UT are clearly tier 1.
aTm could possibly be in it's own tier due to Houston proximity/facilities.
OU/OSU/MU/BU/KSU/ISU/maybe TT/maybe NU are all about the same.
CU would be last.
you're mixed up. if the "only" thing you're looking at is basketball, then cu sux. if you take a look at the entire picture and look at everything, then cu becomes more attractive.
to say that OSU, OU, MU, and KSU are on the same tier is a like you're smoking loco weed. i know you can't be ignoring our last 20 years so i got to assume you're ignoring everyone else's in the conference.
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Amazing that he took the time to write about something other than his kids. I am in desperate need of a Travis or Kelly update!!! :mad:
I think we know the update and it is, they are doing incredibly awesome...as expected.
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gotta take everything into consid, cause recruits do imo.
tiers (schools not listed in any order)
Us- ISU, KSU, NU, TT
Them- UT, ku, OU , OSU (facilities + recent tradition), MU (facilities), BU (barely), CU (Boulder), A&M
If you take into consideration "everything", CU is easily the hardest place to recruit for bball in the Big 12.
ku and UT are clearly tier 1.
aTm could possibly be in it's own tier due to Houston proximity/facilities.
OU/OSU/MU/BU/KSU/ISU/maybe TT/maybe NU are all about the same.
CU would be last.
you're mixed up. if the "only" thing you're looking at is basketball, then cu sux. if you take a look at the entire picture and look at everything, then cu becomes more attractive.
to say that OSU, OU, MU, and KSU are on the same tier is a like you're smoking loco weed. i know you can't be ignoring our last 20 years so i got to assume you're ignoring everyone else's in the conference.
Um, I think you're mixed up. PISSclams.
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has anyone stopped for a second to think that maybe it is, in fact, hard to recruit to manhattan?
It is compared to a lot of places. Compared to the rest of the Big XII, it shouldn't be significantly harder.
QFT.
Stillwater.
Ames.
both of those schools have at least a little success in hoops with E. Sutton and Eustachy (when he owned ku...I enjoyed that)...... over the last decade while we were sucking pond water.
Neither of those towns have white sandy beaches.....and 75 degrees in February. It comes down to coaching and the type of staff your team is rolling with. Helps to have the AD's support as well (Wesier HATED Wooly, for instance).......
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Location (no order):
UT, CU
everyone else
Tradition - recent or nearly recent success (no order):
UT, ku
A&M, OSU
everyone else
Facilities (no order):
UT, OSU
everyone else
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the whole cu location thing that stupid big 12 flatlanders always bring up is truly stupid.
piss and i know a lot of bball players. and mostly they have no interest in snow, cold, skiing, mountains, ice, cold and snow, etc.
a&m, bu, ou and osu have way better bball locations than cu.
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Well, after this season we've got more to help recruiting than we've had in years:
"K-State, isn't that were Michael Beasley went to school? I saw them on ESPN a couple times and read about him in Sports Illustrated."
Its not like we've had anything close to that in years.
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Well, after this season we've got more to help recruiting than we've had in years:
"K-State, isn't that were Michael Beasley went to school? I saw them on ESPN a couple times and read about him in Sports Illustrated."
Its not like we've had anything close to that in years.
Also helpful:
"I coached the number one pick in this year's NBA draft".
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Srsly, is no one else laughing at Jesus putting Lincoln 5th in location? Lincoln is terrible.
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Srsly, is no one else laughing at Jesus putting Lincoln 5th in location? Lincoln is terrible.
Norman is a bigger craphole of a town than anywhere. But I guess it's close to "Bricktown".
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Srsly, is no one else laughing at Jesus putting Lincoln 5th in location? Lincoln is terrible.
After the top few, it's really hard to sort them out untill you get down to the bottom. 5th for Lincoln was just off the cuff. Where would you rank Corntown?
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Lincoln is a capital city and it's bigger than Manhattan, so they've got that going for them.
I can opine on this subject a bit more objectively than some others, being that I moved to Kansas from Texas in the middle of my senior year and I got to experience the KSU and ku campuses as a out of state student. I grew up 30 minutes north of Austin and attended many school functions at Baylor, UT, SWT-San Marcos, U of Houston and visited the A&M campus once with my dad. The UT campus I was most familiar with as I had a yearbook seminar there in 7th grade, went to many Austin Symphony fieldtrips (Bass Concert Hall), many visits to the LBJ library on campus and got to go all over Austin with my dad. I loved it and always planned on going there. The Baylor campus I was also familiar with as we had some field trips there too, and Houston and A&M.
So when I moved to Kansas I got to visit Lawrence and Manhattan as I was 'school shopping'. Neither of them jumped out at me as bad or good compared to everything else I had seen. I was practical enough to know going out of state to UT in Austin was not a great idea when I could just go to ku or KSU. I decided on KSU as it was closer to my parents and I enjoyed myself at my first football game there (35-0 home shutout of Minnesota in '94). So yes, Dr. Wefald is right, sports are a window on a university. Especially when we're talking state schools where when you are on the undecided degree, you can pretty much flip a coin.
But that's just me. If I were on a basketball scholarship who knows.
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A big problem recruiting to Manhattan is getting direct flights for recruits. Once you get in the city it's just like most college towns. Didn't Weiser recently ask the NCAA if schools like KSU who are more than two hours away from a major airport could fly recruits in on charter flights? I think the request was shot down but we need the NCAA to revisit that and get it approved because that would make it a lot easier.
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Srsly, is no one else laughing at Jesus putting Lincoln 5th in location? Lincoln is terrible.
After the top few, it's really hard to sort them out untill you get down to the bottom. 5th for Lincoln was just off the cuff. Where would you rank Corntown?
1. Austin
2. Boulder
3. Lawrence
4. Manhattan
5. Columbia
6. Norman
7. Waco
8. Stillwater
9. Ames
10. Lincoln
11. Lubbock
NR: College Station (never been there, can't judge)