KSUFans Archives
Fan Life => The Endzone Dive => Topic started by: Kat Kid on November 07, 2007, 07:56:03 PM
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Minuteman's high-tech border barrier called 'a cow fence'
By Abbie Boudreau and Ken Shiffman
CNN
COCHISE COUNTY, Arizona (CNN) -- It was supposed to be 14 feet high and topped with razor wire. It was also supposed to send a message to Washington that if the government wouldn't seal off the southern border, volunteers could.
Almost two years later, the reality is a five-strand barbed-wire barrier that ranchers dismiss as a mere cattle fence.
The fence to help stop illegal immigration was the dream of Chris Simcox, the founder and president of the Minuteman Defense Corps.
The group has chapters throughout the country, with Minuteman members from as far away as New Hampshire making the trip down to Arizona to participate in citizens' border patrols. They are doing a job Simcox says the federal government is not doing well enough.
Simcox, who participated in border patrols as recently as October, has said, "If elected officials will not lead, then it's up to the citizens."
Volunteers say they heeded Simcox's call because they believe illegal immigration is a grave threat to the security of the United States. They say that they are patriots hoping to make a difference and that they want to help make the United States safe in the wake of the terrorist attacks of 9/11.
"Here we were, grandparents, and we were willing to go down to the border and do something our government wouldn't do," explained Sandy Doty, a former member of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps. VideoWatch how fence has not met volunteers' expectations »
On the Minuteman Web site and in e-mails to members, Simcox asked for donations while making big promises, including a vow to build a fence along the border. It was not just any fence; it was to be 2,000 miles of state-of-the-art fencing at a cost of $55 million.
Simcox described it as "our high-tech, double-layered gauntlet of deterrent."
The fence was described on the Minuteman Web site as 14 feet high, with security cameras and sensors, topped with razor wire and flanked by ditches to stop vehicles. Simcox referred to it as an "Israeli-style" fence, similar to the barrier Israel has erected to keep Palestinians from crossing from the West Bank.
Many Minuteman state and national leaders said that the fence proposal was a complete surprise to them.
"All of a sudden we hear, 'We are going to build a fence if the government doesn't build it!' We all looked at each other and said, 'What!'" said David Jones, a former Minuteman member.
Donations started flowing in. One man actually mortgaged his home and contributed more than $100,000. And on Memorial Day of last year, there was a groundbreaking ceremony on John Ladd's Arizona ranch. But what the Minutemen were building was not a tall, Israeli-style fence.
Former member Bob Wright said, "It wasn't until they actually started the ceremony that it became clear. It was gonna be a cow fence!"
It was a five-strand barbed wire fence that would keep Ladd's cattle in and keep Mexican cattle out. Ladd said he is happy with the fence. But some Minuteman leaders were stunned. In their first-ever interview, these former Simcox lieutenants told CNN they believed that the groundbreaking was a ploy by Simcox to raise even more money.
As a group, these leaders started to question Simcox about how donations were being spent. They wanted to him to provide specifics as to how much money was being raised and how it was being used.
"To this day, we still don't know how much the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps has raised. We don't have a clue, not a clue," Wright said.
They said they wanted to know why the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps was not spending money to help volunteers patrol the borders.
"We needed equipment, and we were not getting equipment," Jones said.
They demanded that Simcox meet them in person to address their concerns and answer their questions. They say he refused to meet with them and subsequently fired them.
Simcox now says that he never promised to build the high-tech security fence on Ladd's ranch. And he insists the barbed-wire fence really does protect the country.
As the Minutemen strung their wire on Ladd's property, another Arizona border rancher, Richard Hodges, agreed to allow Simcox to build nearly a mile of that Israeli-style fence on his land.
That was 10 months ago. CNN visited Hodges' ranch a few weeks ago and found an as-yet-unfinished, tall, wire-mesh fence. There is no razor wire, no trenches, no cameras, which were to be the fancy facial-recognition type.
In a news release, Simcox claimed an Alabama company was going to provide those cameras, but the company told CNN it has made no deal to provide cameras and hasn't heard from the Minutemen in 18 months.
And what happened to all the money donated to the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps is in question.
Simcox posted his group's most recent tax filing and an independent audit on the Minuteman Web site. In the audit, the largest expense listed, by far, is for "professional services," with no further details given.
Meanwhile, Simcox continues to solicit donations to build a fence. But, lately, it sounds as though he is lowering expectations, saying the fence is really just a symbol, a way to prod the government into building a real barrier.
CNN asked Simcox for responses to all of the allegations made by the former insiders. He replied that all of the allegations, as well as CNN's investigation, are "a witch hunt" and "part of a smear campaign." Simcox declined several CNN requests for an interview.
Paul Newman, the board supervisor of Cochise County, Arizona, where Simcox has been building his barbed wire fences, said Simcox's plan for a border fence was a pipe dream from the very beginning. He explained that because the border is a patchwork of public and private land, a private fence builder could never get permission to build on all of it.
Not only would there be wide gaps all along a fence built by the Minutemen, but in October 2006, President Bush signed into law an authorization for nearly 700 miles of federal fence along the Mexico border.
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good deal for the rancher.
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The Minutemen are doing great work defending the invasion. Too bad their own government is letting that invasion in without firing a shot.
The policy on the border should be to cross at authorized crossing or be fired upon.
American sovereignty is at stake. Check out the dozens of people who have been kidnapped or killed by drug lords around Laredo, TX. Mexicans have crossed the border and executed and abducted journalists, law enforcement officers, and ordinary citizens, including two teenage girls who have been reportedly been taken across the border as gifts for a druglord. If we don't shut the border down, civil war will result. People are tired of the government betraying them. The Minutemen are only the beginning.
Of course, they're decried by those on the left who shout down anyone who disagrees with them. See Columbia University. Those same leftists apparently aren't too thrilled about borders and individual governments.
A borderless society comes straight from the works of Marx and Ingalls.
Most reasonable Americans will die before they live under that kind of regime.
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The Minutemen are doing great work defending the invasion. Too bad their own government is letting that invasion in without firing a shot.
The policy on the border should be to cross at authorized crossing or be fired upon.
American sovereignty is at stake. Check out the dozens of people who have been kidnapped or killed by drug lords around Laredo, TX. Mexicans have crossed the border and executed and abducted journalists, law enforcement officers, and ordinary citizens, including two teenage girls who have been reportedly been taken across the border as gifts for a druglord. If we don't shut the border down, civil war will result. People are tired of the government betraying them. The Minutemen are only the beginning.
Of course, they're decried by those on the left who shout down anyone who disagrees with them. See Columbia University. Those same leftists apparently aren't too thrilled about borders and individual governments.
A borderless society comes straight from the works of Marx and Ingalls.
Most reasonable Americans will die before they live under that kind of regime.
lofflepoops.
You're f*cking insane.
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There's a reasonable argument. Don't argue the points, just call the other guy stupid or insane. Exactly what I was saying about the shout-down leftists.
Point: Me
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I didn't read past "defending the invasion".
FWIW.
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I bet the right wing/left wing split on this board can be found in the pheasant hunting thread.
also, agree with Rus that "defending the invasion" in lollerpalooza
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I bet the right wing/left wing split on this board can be found in the pheasant hunting thread.
also, agree with Rus that "defending the invasion" in lollerpalooza
I don't think I can be defined in a right or left wing. Both contradict themselves so much. I'm very anti abortion, but also very anti death penalty. I like pheasant hunting, but I also worry about taking care of the environment (you would think most hunters would worry about the environment, but that isn't the case 99% of the time.)
I'm mostly a Kat Kid-ist. I pretty much repeat what he repeats from his political blogs, (because I agree with most of it). Kind of like how he should repeat what I repeat from music blogs. We'd, like be, the ultimate cool person if that happened.
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heard that common lily allen song?
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heard that common lily allen song?
Yeah, very cool. I caught a snippet on the blogs a while back.
Overall, I'm not a big Common fan (too preachy/wordy, not flowy enough), but that song is good.
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heard that common lily allen song?
Yeah, very cool. I caught a snippet on the blogs a while back.
Overall, I'm not a big Common fan (too preachy/wordy, not flowy enough), but that song is good.
same here on the common theory. song is waaay cool.
im still trying to find my password...ive been wanting to add, but cant. :-[
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I bet the right wing/left wing split on this board can be found in the pheasant hunting thread.
also, agree with Rus that "defending the invasion" in lollerpalooza
I don't think I can be defined in a right or left wing. Both contradict themselves so much. I'm very anti abortion, but also very anti death penalty. I like pheasant hunting, but I also worry about taking care of the environment (you would think most hunters would worry about the environment, but that isn't the case 99% of the time.)
I'm mostly a Kat Kid-ist. I pretty much repeat what he repeats from his political blogs, (because I agree with most of it). Kind of like how he should repeat what I repeat from music blogs. We'd, like be, the ultimate cool person if that happened.
I use to be anti-abortion...until I realized the right is also anti-abortion.
I switched immed.
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heard that common lily allen song?
Yeah, very cool. I caught a snippet on the blogs a while back.
Overall, I'm not a big Common fan (too preachy/wordy, not flowy enough), but that song is good.
same here on the common theory. song is waaay cool.
im still trying to find my password...ive been wanting to add, but cant. :-[
can't you have them email it to you?
you could also just start w/ a new account, too.
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the real rofllering will be after the US builds their big border fence. watching guatemalans fly to canada and stroll south will keep me on the floor for days.
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Canadians trying to enter our country and spread their damned free healthcare and clean air!
(http://weblogs.elearning.ubc.ca/ross/archives/headbar6.jpg)
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mexico has a better health care system than the US. seriously.
and they don't have crazy mexican patriots threatening to kill americans that use their clean, professional, tax-payer subsidized facilities.
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mexico has a better health care system than the US. seriously.
I love Mexico...just not Matamoras :scared:
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the entire border region is really ugly.
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the entire border region is really ugly.
especially the far east Matamorasy area.
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holy frack, dirty sanchos is one crazy sum biatch. just don't go all tim mcveigh/terry nichols. we don't need to make kansas look any more retarded(see: evolution v fairy tales in schools)
oh ya, and steve dave, do you just assume all hunters are dirty sancho confederate flag waving crazies? i love hunting and would definetly align myself more with donkeys than elephants, that would be if i considered a two party system to be worth a crap.
rusty, have you listened to much ...trail of dead? i just went back and listened to their source tags and codes album, it is really really good.
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I am a social liberal and fiscal conservative. Registered Libertarian. I don't hunt. I was not assuming everyone that hunted was a right wing crazy. Ted Nugent (< what I picture when I think of hunting) can fill you in on the rest.
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sweet dude, libertarian. i would have registered as one of those, but i guess i didn't for the same reason i have didn't vote for nader for prez in the last election. i didn't vote for anyone instead.
social liberal and fiscal conservative? are you bipolar or do you just hate yourself?
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social liberal and fiscal conservative? are you bipolar or do you just hate yourself?
I like people to be able to do and say whatever they want but I don't like having to pay for it.
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I like people to be able to do and say whatever they want but I don't like having to pay for it.
me and steve dave, like this:
:kugayfight:
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I like people to be able to do and say whatever they want but I don't like having to pay for it.
me and steve dave, like this:
:kugayfight:
:blush:
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rusty, have you listened to much ...trail of dead? i just went back and listened to their source tags and codes album, it is really really good.
No.
Do you have a last.fm profile? You should get one. I just fired mine up this week, and it's pretty cool.
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rusty, have you listened to much ...trail of dead? i just went back and listened to their source tags and codes album, it is really really good.
No.
Do you have a last.fm profile? You should get one. I just fired mine up this week, and it's pretty cool.
no, if io listen to any internet radio, i use the yahoo launchcast one cuz their rating system is pretty good and i have well over 1000 bands rated as well as several 'stations' i think they call them moods. those thingsare all about the rating systems, how is last.fm's?
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seems to be pretty good.
What I like is you can see what everyone else is listening to.
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holy frack, dirty sanchos is one crazy sum biatch. just don't go all tim mcveigh/terry nichols. we don't need to make kansas look any more retarded(see: evolution v fairy tales in schools)
oh ya, and steve dave, do you just assume all hunters are dirty sancho confederate flag waving crazies? i love hunting and would definetly align myself more with donkeys than elephants, that would be if i considered a two party system to be worth a crap.
rusty, have you listened to much ...trail of dead? i just went back and listened to their source tags and codes album, it is really really good.
Here we go with calling the other guy crazy again rather than listening to what they have to say.
I'm hardly a Timothy McVeigh type. Its well known that Americans favor closing the border and limiting access to illegal aliens, but elected officials repeatedly fail to act on the people's behalf. It is very much an Enlightenment (18th C Jefferson/Locke type Enlightenment--not the same that modern libs have dubbed themselves so they can tell everyone else what to do and think) idea that when a government fails to act on behalf of the people, that the people have a right to change the government. Not saying I'm going to do it, but discontent over the situation is growing.
Most avid outdoorsmen are active environmentalists, just not environmental activists. Big difference. One acts, the other talks. Afterall, why would we destroy the thing we love to do in our spare time?
And I hardly wave a confederate flag. If other people want to, that's fine. Their freedom.
I sense a growing division in our house, and a house divided shall not stand. I choose not to be one of those driving the wedge.
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Its well known that Americans favor closing the border and limiting access to illegal aliens, but elected officials repeatedly fail to act on the people's behalf. It is very much an Enlightenment (18th C Jefferson/Locke type Enlightenment--not the same that modern libs have dubbed themselves so they can tell everyone else what to do and think) idea that when a government fails to act on behalf of the people, that the people have a right to change the government.
Um, you can change the government by electing new elected officials.
And you're not "driving the wedge"? LOL. OK.
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You should read Thoreau. He took principled stands AND walked about nature. Try on Walden's Pond.
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Its well known that Americans favor closing the border and limiting access to illegal aliens, but elected officials repeatedly fail to act on the people's behalf. It is very much an Enlightenment (18th C Jefferson/Locke type Enlightenment--not the same that modern libs have dubbed themselves so they can tell everyone else what to do and think) idea that when a government fails to act on behalf of the people, that the people have a right to change the government.
Um, you can change the government by electing new elected officials.
And you're not "driving the wedge"? LOL. OK.
In theory, yes. I'd like to say that still works. But sadly, both parties are basically the same and there are enough braindead people beholden to one or the other that it keeps going back and forth. Special interests so dominate both sides that they say a bunch of good stuff during the campaign then change once they're in office so they can keep those funding sources in for reelection. Those that are engaged know the real score. America cannot continue on this course where one side demonizes the other for the sake of their own group's power.
Am I driving the wedge in this thread? I'm trying to reach out and get people to work together. For that I'm being called "insane". Being blinded by hate for other Americans is no way to go through life. Listen to what they have to say. Debate with them. Don't call them crazy--unless they're 911-truther of SCM (warzone guy) types. Then, yeah, that's crazy.
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Its well known that Americans favor closing the border and limiting access to illegal aliens, but elected officials repeatedly fail to act on the people's behalf. It is very much an Enlightenment (18th C Jefferson/Locke type Enlightenment--not the same that modern libs have dubbed themselves so they can tell everyone else what to do and think) idea that when a government fails to act on behalf of the people, that the people have a right to change the government.
Um, you can change the government by electing new elected officials.
And you're not "driving the wedge"? LOL. OK.
In theory, yes. I'd like to say that still works. But sadly, both parties are basically the same and there are enough braindead people beholden to one or the other that it keeps going back and forth. Special interests so dominate both sides that they say a bunch of good stuff during the campaign then change once they're in office so they can keep those funding sources in for reelection. Those that are engaged know the real score. America cannot continue on this course where one side demonizes the other for the sake of their own group's power.
Am I driving the wedge in this thread? I'm trying to reach out and get people to work together. For that I'm being called "insane". Being blinded by hate for other Americans is no way to go through life. Listen to what they have to say. Debate with them. Don't call them crazy--unless they're 911-truther of SCM (warzone guy) types. Then, yeah, that's crazy.
LOL
No one takes you seriously because your arguments are so disingenuous they must be purposefully so.
Your first post is what you really feel, then you backpedaled when you saw that everyone thought you were a paranoid freak.
The idea that events in Laredo, TX define the entire situation is insane. If you care to check, crime rates for undocumented immigrants are lower than those of Americans.
"Invasion?" Really? Compare immigration rates between now and throughout U.S. History (as a percentage of population). Look at the disgraceful way in which our immigration policy is handled (compare Cuban vs. Dominican). How many work visas do we give for agricultural or manual labor work? Which taxes do undocumented immigrants pay or not pay? How many &@#%ing Iraqis have we given refugee status and allowed to immigrate? Does "invasion" begin to give justice to the complexity of this issue?
Our current immigration policy is humiliating and a big reason why we have lost standing in the world. The entire system is broken, but not for the reasons you give. Your rhetoric is straight from the uninformed corner of Glenn Beck and completely ignorant of and disinterested in actual facts. If you care to learn something check out Pew Hispanic Center, read Portes and Rumbaut's extensive study of second generation in "Legacies: The Story of the Second Generation" or their more recent "Immigrant America: A Portrait." These are serious scholars who research things instead of yelling about them. You could also check out the U.S. Government Census numbers to at least give yourself some numbers to consider.
Throwing political bombs is a lot easier than shaping an informed position based in fact. I have beliefs that guide where I look and what I choose to believe, that's called perspective. I would recommend you inform yourself enough to find a coherent one for yourself. Using rhetoric that has no basis in reality and serves only to ramp up an ill-informed debate and avoid the issues at hand is unproductive if you truly seek a dialogue. I don't think you do.
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in·va·sion /ɪnˈveɪʒən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-vey-zhuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. an act or instance of invading or entering as an enemy, esp. by an army.
2. the entrance or advent of anything troublesome or harmful, as disease.
3. entrance as if to take possession or overrun: the annual invasion of the resort by tourists.
4. infringement by intrusion.
Tell me how these two definitions aren't met by the chaos across the entire border? And the first definition...there have been documented cases of Mexican army troops north of the Rio Grande, and they weren't there trying to grab some of their people who got away.
Yeah, our policy is a disgrace. I'm not denying that. Wet foot/dry foot is stupid.
Laredo isn't the entire problem. Not by a long shot. Talk to any bordertown.
I'm not backing down. The border must be closed. You want to fix health care? Closing the border would be a great start. The people of southern California would love to be able to go to the emergency room without paying for their care and that of six others who can't pay because they are not legally being paid to work in this country.
All I ask is that people come into my house through the front door, not break in through a back window.
I appreciate you trying to debate this time instead of calling someone who disagrees with you crazy (in most of your post anyway).
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in·va·sion /ɪnˈveɪʒən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-vey-zhuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. an act or instance of invading or entering as an enemy, esp. by an army.
2. the entrance or advent of anything troublesome or harmful, as disease.
3. entrance as if to take possession or overrun: the annual invasion of the resort by tourists.
4. infringement by intrusion.
Tell me how these two definitions aren't met by the chaos across the entire border? And the first definition...there have been documented cases of Mexican army troops north of the Rio Grande, and they weren't there trying to grab some of their people who got away.
Yeah, our policy is a disgrace. I'm not denying that. Wet foot/dry foot is stupid.
Laredo isn't the entire problem. Not by a long shot. Talk to any bordertown.
I'm not backing down. The border must be closed. You want to fix health care? Closing the border would be a great start. The people of southern California would love to be able to go to the emergency room without paying for their care and that of six others who can't pay because they are not legally being paid to work in this country.
All I ask is that people come into my house through the front door, not break in through a back window.
I appreciate you trying to debate this time instead of calling someone who disagrees with you crazy (in most of your post anyway).
1. an act or instance of invading or entering as an enemy, esp. by an army.
2. the entrance or advent of anything troublesome or harmful, as disease.
3. entrance as if to take possession or overrun: the annual invasion of the resort by tourists.
4. infringement by intrusion.[/quote]
1. Undocumented immigrants are troublesome/harmful? You clearly haven't read the literature on their crime rates vs. U.S. citizens. Harmful? If every illegal were deported tomorrow our economy could not find enough people to replace the jobs while still allowing for frictional unemployment. You can lament the downfalls of the status quo, but what you seem to be advocating is muuuuch worse. Illegal immigrants are the only people who don't pay hospital bills? Fascinating! I wonder how many medical malpractice suits illegals bring. Undocumented immigrants pay property taxes, payroll taxes, don't receive their federal and state witholdings and pay into social security which they won't receive. I would love to here what a study showed about their tax burden to services received compared to their cohorts by socio-economic status.
2. If you really think that Mexico is somehow going to re-claim the southwestern U.S. then I don't even know where to begin. Mexican soldiers have been spotted North of the Rio Grande? Ok. I would welcome Mexico attempting to invade the U.S. That is laughable.
3. Infringement by intrusion? I guess. But to act as though illegal immigration is some malevolent plot by the Mexican people or the Mexican government is unhinged. The reason they come is because jobs are available. They wouldn't pay upwards of $5,000 to come here to not work. I would like a guest worker program that made it reasonably easy and advantageous for employers and employees to be documented instead of not. What is your solution? Stop the invasion by closing the borders? Good luck with that. They aren't coming because we have too much legal immigration.
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I just think stopping the illegal immigration "invasion" is the most hateful way to "help" the country.
There's an endless supply of problems that concern me a lot more than people that want to come here and work.
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Yeah, our policy is a disgrace. I'm not denying that. Wet foot/dry foot is stupid.
so explain to me why we shouldn't fix this first before we just start shooting people that just want to mow your lawn?
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nevermind. 2 immigration threads, 2 concert threads. too confusing. sanch, just try not to sound so red dawnish and then people will actually listen to you a lot more. when you start with that kill em all type rederick, it tends to make people tune out whatever logical points you might make.
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in·va·sion /ɪnˈveɪʒən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-vey-zhuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. an act or instance of invading or entering as an enemy, esp. by an army.
2. the entrance or advent of anything troublesome or harmful, as disease.
3. entrance as if to take possession or overrun: the annual invasion of the resort by tourists.
4. infringement by intrusion.
Tell me how these two definitions aren't met by the chaos across the entire border? And the first definition...there have been documented cases of Mexican army troops north of the Rio Grande, and they weren't there trying to grab some of their people who got away.
Yeah, our policy is a disgrace. I'm not denying that. Wet foot/dry foot is stupid.
Laredo isn't the entire problem. Not by a long shot. Talk to any bordertown.
I'm not backing down. The border must be closed. You want to fix health care? Closing the border would be a great start. The people of southern California would love to be able to go to the emergency room without paying for their care and that of six others who can't pay because they are not legally being paid to work in this country.
All I ask is that people come into my house through the front door, not break in through a back window.
I appreciate you trying to debate this time instead of calling someone who disagrees with you crazy (in most of your post anyway).
1. an act or instance of invading or entering as an enemy, esp. by an army.
2. the entrance or advent of anything troublesome or harmful, as disease.
3. entrance as if to take possession or overrun: the annual invasion of the resort by tourists.
4. infringement by intrusion.
1. Undocumented immigrants are troublesome/harmful? You clearly haven't read the literature on their crime rates vs. U.S. citizens. Harmful? If every illegal were deported tomorrow our economy could not find enough people to replace the jobs while still allowing for frictional unemployment. You can lament the downfalls of the status quo, but what you seem to be advocating is muuuuch worse. Illegal immigrants are the only people who don't pay hospital bills? Fascinating! I wonder how many medical malpractice suits illegals bring. Undocumented immigrants pay property taxes, payroll taxes, don't receive their federal and state witholdings and pay into social security which they won't receive. I would love to here what a study showed about their tax burden to services received compared to their cohorts by socio-economic status.
[/quote]
Not all. Where did I say all? Do we need to add to the problems that we already have. I welcome immigrants. I just want them to come in the front door.
2. If you really think that Mexico is somehow going to re-claim the southwestern U.S. then I don't even know where to begin. Mexican soldiers have been spotted North of the Rio Grande? Ok. I would welcome Mexico attempting to invade the U.S. That is laughable.
Recently there were reports of Mexican troops turning their machine guns on local law enforcement so as to be able to let drug smugglers into the US. Its not a military invasion from Mexico that I'm afraid of. But their troops have zero business crossing the border without our permission. What other country on earth would let a foreign army in without permission or a fight? Then those troops are there to provide cover for the worst among them, feeding a crime problem.
It is being taught in many textbooks in Mexico that the southwest US belongs to them still.
3. Infringement by intrusion? I guess. But to act as though illegal immigration is some malevolent plot by the Mexican people or the Mexican government is unhinged. The reason they come is because jobs are available. They wouldn't pay upwards of $5,000 to come here to not work. I would like a guest worker program that made it reasonably easy and advantageous for employers and employees to be documented instead of not. What is your solution? Stop the invasion by closing the borders? Good luck with that. They aren't coming because we have too much legal immigration.
A guest worker program would be the front door that I've been talking about.
When I say "close the border" I don't mean stop any Mexican from coming in. I mean close the hemmoraging and make it orderly. It would be the humane thing to do on this side of the border. Cut the coyotes off. Shut down the "rape trees". Stop people dying by the dozen in the back of a semi trailer. Stop dying in the desert. Stop people living in shacks with beds rented for 3 different 8-hour shifts.
Without borders we have anarchy. We must stop it now. Make it orderly. Then I'll talk path to citizenship. Doing nothing is not an option.
Nevermind what else might be getting shipped across the border by OTM's.
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Dirty Sanchez- Your actual policy proposals sound somewhat reasonable, but you need to really get a grasp on the rhetoric vs. reality.
So what if Mexican schools teach kids they have a right to the U.S. Southwest? If we really want to re-visit the Mexican-American War and talk about fairness, we could but the U.S. doesn't look so rosey. Unless this has some sort of tangible effect (and no Mexican immigration is not some conspiracy to populate our states and then start a revolution or secessionist movement, that is insane) then it is meaningless. Did you know that in Japan students learn that Hiroshima was a terrible tradgedy????!!
As for the Mexican Army over the border. If you truly believe that the Mexican army is consistently operating in U.S. territory as some sort of vigilante drug smuggling menace, then you are insane. There is certainly a healthy amount of corruption in the Mexican army, there are certainly many drugs that are smuggled into the U.S. through Mexico. Both of these facts have much less to do with border issues and much more to do with the recreational drug habits of Americans and the profit potential of drug trafficing.
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There is certainly a healthy amount of corruption in the Mexican army, there are certainly many drugs that are smuggled into the U.S. through Mexico. Both of these facts have much less to do with border issues and much more to do with the recreational drug habits of Americans and the profit potential of drug trafficing.
Much easier to blame Mexicans, IMO.
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I'd be all for giving most of the Southwest back to Mexico FWIW.
Mostly desert.
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I'd be all for giving most of the Southwest back to Mexico FWIW.
Mostly desert.
I like New Mexico and SoCal.
I also like Nortenos.
I could go either way. Texas could go and I'd be cool.
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I like SoCal. Maybe we could offer Utah and keep SoCal? I don't know, these invaders are pretty demanding.
I hate New Mexico, though.
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I'd be all for giving most of the Southwest back to Mexico FWIW.
Mostly desert.
I like New Mexico and SoCal.
I also like Nortenos.
I could go either way. Texas could go and I'd be cool.
I would like to offer up a trade of NM and S. TX for the Baja Peninsula. I know, bad trade for them but the worst they can do is turn it down.
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I'd be all for giving most of the Southwest back to Mexico FWIW.
Mostly desert.
I like New Mexico and SoCal.
I also like Nortenos.
I could go either way. Texas could go and I'd be cool.
I would like to offer up a trade of NM and S. TX for the Baja Peninsula. I know, bad trade for them but the worst they can do is turn it down.
If you ran for office (ANY office) based on this platform alone, I would vote for you.
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Yeah! Baja >>>>>>>>>>>> NM and TX South of Austin
I like NM though. I could settle for retaining Durango,CO and picking up CABO WABO AND THE RED ROCKER!!!11!
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i think most mexicans would prefer if the us annexed the north rather than giving them our swest.
the $5000 figure is way off. at least for mexicans crossing from mexico. much cheaper.
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Dirty Sanchez- Your actual policy proposals sound somewhat reasonable, but you need to really get a grasp on the rhetoric vs. reality.
Ditto
So what if Mexican schools teach kids they have a right to the U.S. Southwest? If we really want to re-visit the Mexican-American War and talk about fairness, we could but the U.S. doesn't look so rosey. Unless this has some sort of tangible effect (and no Mexican immigration is not some conspiracy to populate our states and then start a revolution or secessionist movement, that is insane) then it is meaningless. Did you know that in Japan students learn that Hiroshima was a terrible tradgedy????!!
We purchased the territory. And, yeah, the bombing of Hiroshima was a tragedy. Shame it had to come to that, but it had to be done.
As for the Mexican Army over the border. If you truly believe that the Mexican army is consistently operating in U.S. territory as some sort of vigilante drug smuggling menace, then you are insane. There is certainly a healthy amount of corruption in the Mexican army, there are certainly many drugs that are smuggled into the U.S. through Mexico. Both of these facts have much less to do with border issues and much more to do with the recreational drug habits of Americans and the profit potential of drug trafficing.
Some reports have come in as high as 200 incursions since 1996.
Close the porous border, help solve both issues.
I'm out for the weekend. Toodles.