KSUFans Archives
Sports => Snyder's Electronic Cyber Space World => Topic started by: michigancat on May 25, 2006, 10:34:23 AM
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I saw that we're paying Huggins an assload of money. Why did we get a FB coach on the cheap? Could we have pulled off a "big time" hire, or at least made a run at a guy like Butch Davis after we swung and missed on Leavitt? Why or why not?
**Note: please save the "Prince is our coach...we should support him...nothing we can do...blah...blah" comments.**
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I saw that we're paying Huggins an assload of money. Why did we get a FB coach on the cheap? Could we have pulled off a "big time" hire, or at least made a run at a guy like Butch Davis after we swung and missed on Leavitt? Why or why not?
**Note: please save the "Prince is our coach...we should support him...nothing we can do...blah...blah" comments.**
What proof do you have that Prince won't PROVE to be a BIG TIME HIRE !! :confused:
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By "big time" I meant someone that had accomplished something of substance in their career, such as be a successful HC at a BCS conference or something.
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Huggins was a pretty unique situation, as he was unemployed and not really in a bidding war situation.
Not sure there was a football coach a similar situation, can you think of any?
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Huggins was a pretty unique situation, as he was unemployed and not really in a bidding war situation.
Not sure there was a football coach a similar situation, can you think of any?
Butch Davis!
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We could have done any number of things, but there are things such as coach interest. We'd have to assume Butch would have had an interest in KSU. We don't know if that would be the case.
We do know that Huggins wanted back in, and I think we had an in because he and Fogler were good friends. Fogler was hired to sell KSU to a coach. All the pieces, so to speak were in place for this to happen. If Weiser had hired someone else, could we have gotten Huggins?
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We could have done any number of things, but there are things such as coach interest. We'd have to assume Butch would have had an interest in KSU. We don't know if that would be the case.
Why wouldn't he be interested?
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A Butch Davis is looking to move on after a couple of years ... yes kids, that would've happened.
The KSU administration hired a guy who if he does well KSU can mold into a decade plus on the job coach.
It's a risk, but if it works out it pays off in spades.
The Administration is attempting Bill Snyder Jr.
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A Butch Davis is looking to move on after a couple of years ... yes kids, that would've happened.
The KSU administration hired a guy who if he does well KSU can mold into a decade plus on the job coach.
It's a risk, but if it works out it pays off in spades.
The Administration is attempting Bill Snyder Jr.
See, I would rather have Butch Davis be wildly successful for five years than have Ron Prince be moderately successful for 10. Bill Snyder is the new Jack Hartman, and that ain't good.
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:violin:
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We could have done any number of things, but there are things such as coach interest. We'd have to assume Butch would have had an interest in KSU. We don't know if that would be the case.
Why wouldn't he be interested?
The question works both ways.. why WOULD he be interested?
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Rusty - WTF??
Low 20 something KSU fans simply don't have any perspective.
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I've got plenty of perspective...and if they aren't in a bowl this year...call me worried.
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We could have done any number of things, but there are things such as coach interest. We'd have to assume Butch would have had an interest in KSU. We don't know if that would be the case.
Why wouldn't he be interested?
The question works both ways.. why WOULD he be interested?
Dollar signs. We have money. We're paying Huggins. Is KSU such a bad job that a highly successful unemployed coach wouldn't consider us for $2 mil/year?
Dax - no perspective? Have you seen KSU basketball for the last 15 years? In order to avoid the next Lon Kruger, KSU tried to hire "decade plus on the job coaches" twice. Both were horrible failures.
I totally understand why they did what they did - I am questioning whether it was the right thing to do. Hell, Beilema was worth $900k to us...did we talk serious cash with any other candidates?
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I've got plenty of perspective...and if they aren't in a bowl this year...call me worried.
That's not the point Nation.
I didn't say I don't expect things ... I guesss someone needs to define "wildly successful" because my definition of that probably isn't possible at KSU.
Rusty ... the only reason why Asbury and Wooldridge were "decade" plus is because Jon Wefald had his head up his ass.
By decade plus, I mean a guy who has good success and that you can mold into somebody that feels to ingrained to move on.
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We could have done any number of things, but there are things such as coach interest. We'd have to assume Butch would have had an interest in KSU. We don't know if that would be the case.
Why wouldn't he be interested?
The question works both ways.. why WOULD he be interested?
Dollar signs. We have money. We're paying Huggins. Is KSU such a bad job that a highly successful unemployed coach wouldn't consider us for $2 mil/year?
Dax - no perspective? Have you seen KSU basketball for the last 15 years? In order to avoid the next Lon Kruger, KSU tried to hire "decade plus on the job coaches" twice. Both were horrible failures.
I totally understand why they did what they did - I am questioning whether it was the right thing to do. Hell, Beilema was worth $900k to us...did we talk serious cash with any other candidates?
Right. Coaching is all about money.
:jerkoff:
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From what I've heard, Prince was offered the job primarily because he absolutely blew everyone away when he interviewed. He was not a leading candidate at that time. He came in extremely well prepared with binders crammed full of his research on KSU, plans, and timelines; said all the right things; and made a such a strong impression that they decided the search was over.
The rest of the questions don't interest me so much. None of the big time candidates that we realistically could have landed would give me any more reason to be optomistic about the future success of the team. (I'm not saying that I have a great degree of optimism now.) Butch Davis could win in Miami (technically not a BCS school at the time, I believe). Fantastic. What does that do for us? Jim Leavitt has had one winning team in a joke of a BCS conference, but is still clearly not ready to compete with the big boys. How is this good for us? Any other names out there?
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Leavitt would have been fantastic.
Dude looks like Stoops. Good enough for me.
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we couldnt have gotten any of the coaches you guys keep throwing out there. i wouldnt want butch davis. not that he isnt a good coach but more that he doesnt seem like a decent person. people could have said that about huggins but butch davis actually seems like an ass. id have loved to have leavitt and would have preferred venables but apparently there was something wrong with him. patterson turned us down (sort of), hawkins ended up at colorado which is fine with me. im not sure who else we could have ever gotten to come to kstate. lets face it. this isnt exactly a college football mecca.
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Rusts, Davis is not the football equivalent of Huggy
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Leavitt would have been a great choice for KSU but part of coaching is about building a program, not so much about money. Leavitt owns that system down there and made a good program from less than what KSU had.
Davis had success at Miami, and there is no doubt he'd have had success in Manhattan, but realistically, Davis would not come to KSU.
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Where is Butch Davis coaching now?
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Where is Butch Davis coaching now?
Exactly.
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By "big time" I meant someone that had accomplished something of substance in their career, such as be a successful HC at a BCS conference or something.
You mean like our the head football coaching hire prior to Prince?
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By "big time" I meant someone that had accomplished something of substance in their career, such as be a successful HC at a BCS conference or something.
You mean like our the head football coaching hire prior to Prince?
lightening does not strike twice.
it amazes me when people expect everything that happens in the past to happen again. would you rather have somebody who hasn't proven himself, or somebody who is well known and is an established coach?
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By "big time" I meant someone that had accomplished something of substance in their career, such as be a successful HC at a BCS conference or something.
You mean like our the head football coaching hire prior to Prince?
it amazes me when people expect everything that happens in the past to happen again. would you rather have somebody who hasn't proven himself, or somebody who is well known and is an established coach?
lightening does not strike twice.
I want somebody who is the "right fit" for our program and who wants to be here awhile......somebody who can relate to K-State.....somebody who can relate to Kansans.......somebody who is young and energetic.........
That doesnt sound that Butch Davis to me. :rolleyes:
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Please Prince, don't suck.
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i think everyone realizes prince is a gamble but isnt that what weiser has proven hes willing to do? huggins is a gamble too, although in a different way. im still waiting for someone to come up with a coach that would have been better than prince. the only options so far either turned us down or were butch davis/brent venables. lets just support prince and if/when he fails then we can say it was the wrong decision but he hasnt even coached a game or finished a real recruiting class yet so we should give him a chance.
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lightening does not strike twice.
it amazes me when people expect everything that happens in the past to happen again. would you rather have somebody who hasn't proven himself, or somebody who is well known and is an established coach?
Wrong quote...lightning actually strikes multiple times. And really it puts the wrong spin on the whole Snyder era. It wasn't some chance thing that happened.
Snyder was an unproven head coach...never been a head coach. He came from a major school and had a plan. He had ties to the region and he had a plan. He demanded the things that would require success for the program.
Now we have another unproven coach. He has a plan to propel the program beyond the base that Snyder's built. He's not taking things for granted. It's true we don't know how it's going to turn out, but he's making changes that I'm sure are in line with his plan. Snyder did plenty of things that made people scratch their heads...but after unprecedented success we all accept them. It doesn't mean things can't be done differently now and still achieve the same level of success.
So the point is that we have a great gnashing of teeth because Ron Prince isn't Bill Snyder.....well, duh. But, in reality we've been down this path before, Bill Snyder was unlike any other head football coach and he was just as unproven.
What I want is the same thing everyone wants, winning football. No one can tell me where not going to get that any more than I can say we will. The history of football (and sports) is littered with proven coaches that couldn't repeat the feat, just as much as unproven coaches who couldn't get it done.
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Snyder's resume when hired was much better than Prince's now. He was a freaking offensive wizard at Iowa, and looking back, it was pretty incredible that he came to the craptiest job in division I history.
That said, he still left us with basically one of the worst jobs in a BCS league...
We could have done any number of things, but there are things such as coach interest. We'd have to assume Butch would have had an interest in KSU. We don't know if that would be the case.
Why wouldn't he be interested?
The question works both ways.. why WOULD he be interested?
Dollar signs. We have money. We're paying Huggins. Is KSU such a bad job that a highly successful unemployed coach wouldn't consider us for $2 mil/year?
Dax - no perspective? Have you seen KSU basketball for the last 15 years? In order to avoid the next Lon Kruger, KSU tried to hire "decade plus on the job coaches" twice. Both were horrible failures.
I totally understand why they did what they did - I am questioning whether it was the right thing to do. Hell, Beilema was worth $900k to us...did we talk serious cash with any other candidates?
Right. Coaching is all about money.
:jerkoff:
Apparently we have none of the other intangibles...that's fine...why is KSU such a bad job to this day?
1. No natural recruiting base.
2. Rural setting?
3. Always playing second fiddle to...Nebraska???
Help me out here, people.
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Apparently we have none of the other intangibles...that's fine...why is KSU such a bad job to this day?
1. No natural recruiting base.
2. Rural setting?
3. Always playing second fiddle to...Nebraska???
Help me out here, people.
those things plus $$$$$$$
although i think its second fiddle to texas, ou, aTm, nebraska, even osu on a certain level. we are, other than i think baylor, the poorest school in the big 12.
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Apparently we have none of the other intangibles...that's fine...why is KSU such a bad job to this day?
1. No natural recruiting base.
2. Rural setting?
3. Always playing second fiddle to...Nebraska???
4. No tradition beyond the last 15 years under Snyder.
5. National media perception as juco U.
Ultimately, I think our problem is that we're "KSU under Snyder," we're not "KSU."