You talk about how Georgia fans hold an inflated perception of their place in the national scene. Can you give us rankings of schools and their prestige and place in the national scene? I am a huge Penn State fan (I went there) and would like to know where you place them.
Here's what makes this question so intriguing. By any quantitative standard, Georgia has been a far better program than Penn State for some time now. Heck, the Nittany Lions have had four losing seasons this decade, while the Dawgs haven't won less than eight games in a season. And yet, I would tell you without a moment's hesitation that Penn State is a national power while Georgia is not.
So I suppose this raises a question: What exactly constitutes a "national power?" To be honest, I don't have a specific answer. Obviously, a history of on-field success (national championships, major bowls) is the key component, but the program must also continue to maintain relevance -- after all, Minnesota has a bunch of national titles on its mantle, but no one views the Gophers as a national power.
No, it's something more than wins and losses. It's a certain cachet or aura. It's the way a program is perceived by the public. Let me put it to you this way:
Suppose we went to, say, Montana. And suppose we found 100 "average" college football fans (not necessarily message-board crazies, but not twice-a-year viewers, either) and put them in a room. If I held up a Michigan helmet, my guess is all 100 would know exactly what it was. If I held up a picture of the USC song girls, all 100 would know who they were. If I happened to bring Joe Paterno along with me, all 100 would say, "Hey, look, it's Joe Paterno!"
But if I held up a Georgia "G" helmet, how many of them do you think would be able to identify it off the top of their head? And with all due respect to Mark Richt, if we secretly inserted him into a police lineup, how many of them would actually say, "Hey, look, it's Mark Richt!" (I swear, Dawgs fans, I'm not trying to pile on Georgia. It's just the example I was given. Don't hate me. Here -- Larry Munson is a god.)
So with this admittedly vague yet somehow telling criteria as my guide, I will accept Adam's challenge and rank the "prestige level" of all 66 BCS schools (including Notre Dame) by dividing them into four tiers.
Kings
Alabama, Florida, Florida State, Miami, Michigan, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Penn State, Tennessee*, Texas and USC.
* Tennessee is the lone school in the group that caused any hesitation. The Vols would have been a no-brainer 10 years ago, but they have fallen off the map a bit lately. In the end, I figured those 100 fans in Montana still know "Rocky Top," the checkered end zones and that Peyton Manning went there.
Barons
Auburn, Clemson, Colorado, Georgia, LSU*, Texas A&M, UCLA, Virginia Tech, Washington and Wisconsin.
* While LSU is clearly a premier program right now, its big-picture tradition does not match those of the 13 kings. However, if the Tigers were to add another national title here in the next couple of years, they may well graduate to that group.
Knights
Arizona State, Arkansas, Boston College, Cal, Georgia Tech, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas State, Maryland, Michigan State, Missouri, N.C. State, Oklahoma State, Ole Miss, Oregon, Oregon State, Pittsburgh, Purdue, Stanford, Syracuse*, South Carolina, Texas Tech, Virginia, West Virginia and Washington State.
* In normal times, Syracuse would qualify as one of the barons, but they're just so darn bad and so irrelevant right now.
Peasants [/u]
Arizona, Baylor, Cincinnati, Connecticut, Duke, Minnesota, Indiana, Iowa State, Kansas, Kentucky, Mississippi State, North Carolina, Northwestern, Rutgers*, South Florida*, Wake Forest and Vanderbilt.
* Rutgers is another program that could be on its way up a tier, and South Florida is here by default because it's essentially a start-up.
There is one school intentionally missing from the list, and that's because I have no idea where to put it: Louisville. History-wise, the Cardinals are peasants, but the program has completely reinvented itself over the past decade and now gets mentioned with the kings and barons. For now, we'll just say: TBD.
Already anticipating what may be my biggest barrage of hate mail yet, all I ask is that you spare me any lists of all-time winning percentages, bowl wins, conference titles and whatnot. Remember -- being called a "powerhouse" is more about public perception than it is reality. Better yet, just apply the Montana test.
LOL. Nebraska is not in the top tier.
If Alabama is in the top tier, Nebraska should be there too.
If Alabama is in the top tier, Nebraska should be there too.
Ditto Notre Dame.
It could be called "haven't pissed a drop in a decade" tier.
Where is Creighton on that list?
Where is Creighton on that list?
lollicane at Creighton in every sport. That's like being from Poland.
Where is Creighton on that list?
lollicane at Creighton in every sport. That's like being from Poland.
And yet Creighton makes the NCAA Tournament consistently...and you....don't.
Maybe it's not just your football program that's third rate...NIT appearances, Texas Bowl bids, what's next? Josh Freeman competing in the Special Olympics?
:lol:
LOL at anyone who thinks that a team that had Jammal Lord as their starting quarterback for two years is elite. :rolleyes:
LOL at anyone who thinks that a team that had Jammal Lord as their starting quarterback for two years is elite. :rolleyes:
LOL at anyone who thinks that a team soon to have Josh Freeman as their starting QB for the second year is anything other than 3rd rate.
:flush: 3rd Rate K-State!!!
LOL @ Corn fans needing validation from a sports writer.
LOL @ Corn fans needing validation from a sports writer.
Our primary validation actually comes from winning, and the annual beatdown of 3rd Rate K-State is particularly enjoyable.We're going to once again remind you why you're 3rd rate in Lincoln this year.:ustupid:
LOL @ Corn fans needing validation from a sports writer.
Our primary validation actually comes from winning, and the annual beatdown of 3rd Rate K-State is particularly enjoyable.
We're going to once again remind you why you're 3rd rate in Lincoln this year.
Don't forget that, due to UN having such a miserable basketball program, he is also a Creighton Basketball Bandwagon jumper. As for myself, I root for KSU football, (when they are having a good season) ku basketball, (except when they lose in the first round of the NCAA) and WSU baseball. (Except when they don't make it to Omaha.) Also, when WSU went to the Sweet 16, I rooted for them. Oh, and the Chiefs when they are having a good season. Hell, I'm also a big Notre Dame fan, even though I have never been anywhere near South Bend, and don't know anybody who has. And I like the Spurs now too, and the Patriots. Hey Creighton/Nubraska bandwagon guy: don't you ever want to kick your own ass? God, just pretending to be a bandwagon fan for two minutes makes me feel all sick inside.LOL @ Corn fans needing validation from a sports writer.
Our primary validation actually comes from winning, and the annual beatdown of cornhole state is particularly enjoyable.
We're going to once again remind you why you're 3rd rate in Lincoln this year.
"WE"
I get the impression you didn't even go to nu but instead are a weak bandwagon jumper. Is that right, or am I mistaken? Feel free to take your time in formulating an answer.
Sorry, but to be concidered a top program, you have to actually beat a top 10 team. Last year NU got humiliated by every top-10 team they played. Even got humiliated by OSU.Dude, check out 1997, National Champs. Is this the first week with the new keyboard? when was Gay-State National Champs in football? :violin:
Nebraska has been nobody for 10 years now.
Don't forget that, due to UN having such a miserable basketball program, he is also a Creighton Basketball Bandwagon jumper. As for myself, I root for KSU football, (when they are having a good season) ku basketball, (except when they lose in the first round of the NCAA) and WSU baseball. (Except when they don't make it to Omaha.) Also, when WSU went to the Sweet 16, I rooted for them. Oh, and the Chiefs when they are having a good season. Hell, I'm also a big Notre Dame fan, even though I have never been anywhere near South Bend, and don't know anybody who has. And I like the Spurs now too, and the Patriots. Hey Creighton/Nubraska bandwagon guy: don't you ever want to kick your own ass? God, just pretending to be a bandwagon fan for two minutes makes me feel all sick inside.LOL @ Corn fans needing validation from a sports writer.
Our primary validation actually comes from winning, and the annual beatdown of cornhole state is particularly enjoyable.
We're going to once again remind you why you're 3rd rate in Lincoln this year.
"WE"
I get the impression you didn't even go to nu but instead are a weak bandwagon jumper. Is that right, or am I mistaken? Feel free to take your time in formulating an answer.
Actually just 6, and we had a fairly good run before that so who cares.
Nope, Michigan was the Championship team in 1997. :-*
I will give that to you though. Being runner up in 1997 is still not too bad.
NU has been nobody for 9 years.
Gay-State
Nope, Michigan was the Championship team in 1997. :-*
I will give that to you though. Being runner up in 1997 is still not too bad.
NU has been nobody for 9 years.
Nope, NU won it in 1997, we have the hardware to prove it. Vegas has Nebraska a 10 point favorite had Michigan not hidden in the Rose bowl.