KSUFans Archives
Sports => Snyder's Electronic Cyber Space World => Topic started by: ksuno1stunner on April 24, 2007, 01:44:19 AM
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http://members.tripod.com/peitsch/99recruits.htm
DT - Anthony Bates ---------- 6'1'' 280 4.80 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) (RIP)
WR - LaRoy Bias ------------- 6'0'' 180 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
LB - Josh Buhl --------------- 6'0'' 193 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
WR - Derrick Evans -------- 5'11'' 165 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
DT - Mario Fatafehi ---------- 6'2'' 295 4.95 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
OL - John Gardner ---------- 6'10'' 280 5.00 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
RB - Joe Hall ----------------- 6'2'' 260 4.59 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
LB - Bryan Hickman --------- 6'2'' 215 4.60 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
TE - Thomas Hill ------------- 6'5'' 250 4.80 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
DE - Cliff Holloman ---------- 6'3'' 265 4.75 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
OL - Oshin Honarchian ------ 6'5'' 280 5.20 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
DE - Thomas Houchin ------- 6'4'' 240 4.80 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
RB - Rashad Jackson ------- 5'10'' 190 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
WR - Ricky Lloyd ------------5'10'' 180 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
OL - Matt Martin ------------- 6'6'' 260 4.90 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
RB - Danny Morris ----------- 6'0'' 200 4.50 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
DT - Justin Montgomery -----6'2'' 280 4.90 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
LB - Terry Pierce ------------ 6'3'' 235 4.60 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
FB - Brandt Quick ----------- 6'1'' 235 4.70 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
OL - Ben Rettele ------------ 6'4'' 280 5.10 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
QB - Ell Roberson ----------- 6'1'' 190 4.50 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
DE - Andrew Shull ----------- 6'5'' 225 4.79 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
DB - Rashad Washington ---- 6'4'' 210 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
DB - Errick Wilson ----------- 6'0'' 170 4.58 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
DE - Corey White ------------ 6'3'' 235 4.80 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
WR - George Williams ------- 6'1'' 190 4.38 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
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http://members.tripod.com/peitsch/99recruits.htm
DT - Anthony Bates ---------- 6'1'' 280 4.80 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) (RIP)
WR - LaRoy Bias ------------- 6'0'' 180 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
LB - Josh Buhl --------------- 6'0'' 193 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
WR - Derrick Evans -------- 5'11'' 165 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
DT - Mario Fatafehi ---------- 6'2'' 295 4.95 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
OL - John Gardner ---------- 6'10'' 280 5.00 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
RB - Joe Hall ----------------- 6'2'' 260 4.59 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
LB - Bryan Hickman --------- 6'2'' 215 4.60 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
TE - Thomas Hill ------------- 6'5'' 250 4.80 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
DE - Cliff Holloman ---------- 6'3'' 265 4.75 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
OL - Oshin Honarchian ------ 6'5'' 280 5.20 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
DE - Thomas Houchin ------- 6'4'' 240 4.80 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
RB - Rashad Jackson ------- 5'10'' 190 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
WR - Ricky Lloyd ------------5'10'' 180 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
OL - Matt Martin ------------- 6'6'' 260 4.90 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
RB - Danny Morris ----------- 6'0'' 200 4.50 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
DT - Justin Montgomery -----6'2'' 280 4.90 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
LB - Terry Pierce ------------ 6'3'' 235 4.60 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
FB - Brandt Quick ----------- 6'1'' 235 4.70 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
OL - Ben Rettele ------------ 6'4'' 280 5.10 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
QB - Ell Roberson ----------- 6'1'' 190 4.50 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
DE - Andrew Shull ----------- 6'5'' 225 4.79 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
DB - Rashad Washington ---- 6'4'' 210 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
DB - Errick Wilson ----------- 6'0'' 170 4.58 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
DE - Corey White ------------ 6'3'' 235 4.80 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
WR - George Williams ------- 6'1'' 190 4.38 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)
Lol at Bias 4 stars & Terry Pierce @ 2.
ksuno1stunner.....do you have anymore from years that aren't in the rivals database, it would be interesting to look back and see.
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Some good memories there.
Terry Pierce - 2 stars. Wow.
George Williams - great game in the big comeback in Stillwater, pretty much nothing else in his career.
Fatefehi, Roberson, and Washington all pretty much lived up to their stars. LaRoy Bias and Danny Morris, not so much. Cliff Holloman was a solid but not great player.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Stunner put those stars up on his own. I don't think that is what anyone else rated them as.
(Give the 1999 class stars!)
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Some good memories there.
Terry Pierce - 2 stars. Wow.
George Williams - great game in the big comeback in Stillwater, pretty much nothing else in his career.
Fatefehi, Roberson, and Washington all pretty much lived up to their stars. LaRoy Bias and Danny Morris, not so much. Cliff Holloman was a solid but not great player.
Really, the defensive recruiting was incredible. Pretty much everyone was a starter or solid contributer by 2003 except Corey White and Erick Wilson (<-???). I mean, that's really awesome.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Stunner put those stars up on his own. I don't think that is what anyone else rated them as.
(Give the 1999 class stars!)
That could be. It looks about what those guys were rated when they were signed though.
And Rusty is right, that was a pretty good class, especially on defense.
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Wasn't the 1999 class recruited, primarily, by BV, Mike Stoops, and the fat man? I think the exception was Pierce who Bennett brought in. And people want to give Snyder so much credit.
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danny morris was a solid 4 star player....but only if you consider st play.
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danny morris was a solid 4 star player....but only if you consider st play.
True, solid on ST. When you consider his impact at RB though, he was probably more like a 3 star contributor. Not a bad thing, but not a star. I think for a 4 star to live up to expectations they have to make All Big 12 in some form.
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yeah, morris and eric gooden arrived in back to back years as fairly highly touted oklahoma rbs. neither ever really did much at rb though.
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yeah, morris and eric gooden arrived in back to back years as fairly highly touted oklahoma rbs. neither ever really did much at rb though.
Gooden was the most upright running RB I've ever seen try to play D1. And he was well over 6'. Don't know how that guy got as touted as he was.
And I'll give Morris credit that he did play through knee problems in his time at KSU which probably affected his abilities.
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Is anyone here pretending that our recruiting has ever been top twenty caliber? Just checking.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Stunner put those stars up on his own. I don't think that is what anyone else rated them as.
(Give the 1999 class stars!)
Yes...I may be getting old, but I'm pretty sure that there wasn't a single 4-star in that class (rivals). Definitely not seven. The top guys in that class were Buhl and Roberson who were both 3 star. The vast majority of that class was 2-star. I don't think K-State was amoung the top 50 classes overall. Back in those days, we were happy to get a three star player. All JUCOs were just automatically 2-star. From the 97 class to the 00 class (our best teams ever) there were a grand total of 2 players higher than 3-stars. The football rankings are a joke and always have been. Took me 10 years to figure that out.
I think what Stunner is asking people to do is read the descriptions on the link of each player, then rank them as though you didn't know how they actually performed.
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Is anyone here pretending that our recruiting has ever been top twenty caliber? Just checking.
As it was rated or how it turned out?
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Is anyone here pretending that our recruiting has ever been top twenty caliber? Just checking.
As it was rated or how it turned out?
As it was rated. There's a big misconception about how highly the recruits of that era were rated. Some seem to think that they were rated higher than our recruits of the past five years or so. That is simply not true.
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Back in those days, we were happy to get a three star player.
In 1999, we weren't too far removed from having a celebration when we landed a running back that could run a 4.5 40.
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Is anyone here pretending that our recruiting has ever been top twenty caliber? Just checking.
As it was rated or how it turned out?
As it was rated. There's a big misconception about how highly the recruits of that era were rated. Some seem to think that they were rated higher than our recruits of the past five years or so.
Not really. Most KSU fans pull out the "Terrence Newman stars don't matter" argument all the time.
I think the real argument should be that following football recruiting is about as silly as it can get, because you can't tell how good a class really was until at least 4 years later. Obviously, our classes from 2000-02 or 03 were pretty crapty, regardless of star ratings.
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Is anyone here pretending that our recruiting has ever been top twenty caliber? Just checking.
As it was rated or how it turned out?
As it was rated. There's a big misconception about how highly the recruits of that era were rated. Some seem to think that they were rated higher than our recruits of the past five years or so. That is simply not true.
See, I think our recruiting was "top 20" caliber during that time, but only because of how it produced, rather than the number of stars next to their names as seniors in highschool.
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Is anyone here pretending that our recruiting has ever been top twenty caliber? Just checking.
As it was rated or how it turned out?
As it was rated. There's a big misconception about how highly the recruits of that era were rated. Some seem to think that they were rated higher than our recruits of the past five years or so.
Not really. Most KSU fans pull out the "Terrence Newman stars don't matter" argument all the time.
I think the real argument should be that following football recruiting is about as silly as it can get, because you can't tell how good a class really was until at least 4 years later. Obviously, our classes from 2000-02 or 03 were pretty @#%$ty, regardless of star ratings.
1. KSU fans are wildly inconsistent. 2. Football recruiting would be fun if we were actually competing for major players on a regular basis. 3. I don't think that there is much of a correlation of any kind between the success of a particular player and his recruting ranking let alone a correlation between the success of a team and any of its recruiting classes.
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Is anyone here pretending that our recruiting has ever been top twenty caliber? Just checking.
As it was rated or how it turned out?
As it was rated. There's a big misconception about how highly the recruits of that era were rated. Some seem to think that they were rated higher than our recruits of the past five years or so. That is simply not true.
See, I think our recruiting was "top 20" caliber during that time, but only because of how it produced, rather than the number of stars next to their names as seniors in highschool.
Well, then that's just a stupid made up stat to make yourself feel better about recruiting because it is nothing more than another way of stating that we had a winning team. No one else rates recruiting that way. Why should KSU fans?
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Jackson and Washington should probably either both be three or both be four. They were both about the same caliber and had the same hype coming out of high school. Jackson ended up getting into trouble and Washington didn't work out at RB so they moved him to safety. I still remember how big the Wichita city league game against each other was. The front page of the Eagle had Rashad vs. Rashad as the headliner.
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Again, this why I laugh when people piss and moan about our recruiting and do so in a manner that implies that KSU was some sort of 4 and 5 star recruiting machine under Snyder.
Then the fallback is, "well look at the recruiting classes for Florida, Texas, Ohio State, USC, all national champions." Point noted, however, college football doesn't play its national championship through to the end. College football uses an overwrought popularity contest just to determine who gets to play for a National Championship. It's quite possible depending how their schedule plays out over the last couple of weeks of the season, for a school to project forward who they might face in a possible National Championship. Literally having 2 to 3 weeks to put together preliminary game plans on possible opponents, and then have 6 weeks to prepare for the actual opponent and the game itself.
Lets see how Jim Tressel, Mack Brown, Bobby Stoops, and Pete Carroll do with a week to prepare in a playoff system.
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Again, this why I laugh when people piss and moan about our recruiting and do so in a manner that implies that KSU was some sort of 4 and 5 star recruiting machine under Snyder.
Then the fallback is, "well look at the recruiting classes for Florida, Texas, Ohio State, USC, all national champions." Point noted, however, college football doesn't play its national championship through to the end. College football uses an overwrought popularity contest just to determine who gets to play for a National Championship. It's quite possible depending how their schedule plays out over the last couple of weeks of the season, for a school to project forward who they might face in a possible National Championship. Literally having 2 to 3 weeks to put together preliminary game plans on possible opponents, and then have 6 weeks to prepare for the actual opponent and the game itself.
Lets see how Jim Tressel, Mack Brown, Bobby Stoops, and Pete Carroll do with a week to prepare in a playoff system.
Better than we would... Tressel, Stoops, and Carroll are all extremely good coaches. Its not just their players. I think the jury is still out on Brown. He's a good motivator, and he looked good in the Rose Bowl with VY, but maybe that was only because of VY.
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Again, this why I laugh when people piss and moan about our recruiting and do so in a manner that implies that KSU was some sort of 4 and 5 star recruiting machine under Snyder.
No, they're implying they have no idea if Prince is as good at identifying hidden gems and developing talent as Snyder. They'd be cool with 2 and 3 stars if Prince had Snyder's pre-exodus track record.
Since Prince pretty much talked crap on Snyder's late recruiting and has no track record, "star rating" is what people are going to use to measure Prince's recruiting success, at least until we have more information.
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Is anyone here pretending that our recruiting has ever been top twenty caliber? Just checking.
As it was rated or how it turned out?
As it was rated. There's a big misconception about how highly the recruits of that era were rated. Some seem to think that they were rated higher than our recruits of the past five years or so. That is simply not true.
See, I think our recruiting was "top 20" caliber during that time, but only because of how it produced, rather than the number of stars next to their names as seniors in highschool.
Well, then that's just a stupid made up stat to make yourself feel better about recruiting because it is nothing more than another way of stating that we had a winning team. No one else rates recruiting that way. Why should KSU fans?
It's not a matter of rating, rather evaluating how that class played out over time. It's fine if everyone wants to get excited over a top 15 recruiting class (2002), I'd rather get excited because in 3-4 years we actually won something with those recruits as the core of the team instead of going through 2 losing seasons their 3rd and 4th years.
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The whole "building the middle depth of the team" theme really seems to have worked. You don't see as much of a dropoff as we use to... It was like, "oh god, Buhl is out, who the hell is this white boy..." I'm very happy with what Prince has done.
Some signings I wasn't in favor with, such as Drinkgern and Roepke. Luckily neither of them are working out...
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Is anyone here pretending that our recruiting has ever been top twenty caliber? Just checking.
As it was rated or how it turned out?
As it was rated. There's a big misconception about how highly the recruits of that era were rated. Some seem to think that they were rated higher than our recruits of the past five years or so. That is simply not true.
See, I think our recruiting was "top 20" caliber during that time, but only because of how it produced, rather than the number of stars next to their names as seniors in highschool.
Well, then that's just a stupid made up stat to make yourself feel better about recruiting because it is nothing more than another way of stating that we had a winning team. No one else rates recruiting that way. Why should KSU fans?
It's not a matter of rating, rather evaluating how that class played out over time. It's fine if everyone wants to get excited over a top 15 recruiting class (2002), I'd rather get excited because in 3-4 years we actually won something with those recruits as the core of the team instead of going through 2 losing seasons their 3rd and 4th years.
Again, you're not talking about recruiting, then. You're talking about winning. There's nothing wrong with that. I just fail to see why so many KSU fans have trouble making these distinctions.
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Again, this why I laugh when people piss and moan about our recruiting and do so in a manner that implies that KSU was some sort of 4 and 5 star recruiting machine under Snyder.
Then the fallback is, "well look at the recruiting classes for Florida, Texas, Ohio State, USC, all national champions." Point noted, however, college football doesn't play its national championship through to the end. College football uses an overwrought popularity contest just to determine who gets to play for a National Championship. It's quite possible depending how their schedule plays out over the last couple of weeks of the season, for a school to project forward who they might face in a possible National Championship. Literally having 2 to 3 weeks to put together preliminary game plans on possible opponents, and then have 6 weeks to prepare for the actual opponent and the game itself.
Lets see how Jim Tressel, Mack Brown, Bobby Stoops, and Pete Carroll do with a week to prepare in a playoff system.
Better than we would... Tressel, Stoops, and Carroll are all extremely good coaches. Its not just their players. I think the jury is still out on Brown. He's a good motivator, and he looked good in the Rose Bowl with VY, but maybe that was only because of VY.
The problem is we'll never know, and a short turnaround against an unfamiliar, well coached opponent negates both talent and coaching to a degree. Every good coach already has a preliminary game plan done for every opponent next season. You don't get that luxury in a playoff system.
I think the biggest thing overall for a school like KSU as others have noted is have a lot of good players, they don't have to be superstars, and plenty of good depth.
It was a lot of fun winning a ton of games with guys like Nyle Wiren and Travis Ochs.
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Again, you're not talking about recruiting, then. You're talking about winning.
The two obviously aren't connected in any way.
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Again, you're not talking about recruiting, then. You're talking about winning.
The two obviously aren't connected in any way.
I didn't say that. I'm just saying that it's completely meaningless to conclude that UF had the best recruting a few years ago based on the fact that they won the national title. It's just as meaningless as concluding that UF had the best facilities based on the fact that they won the national title. Or the best coaches. Or the best trainers. Or the best equipment. This view of recruting doesn't bring anything new to the discussion - it is just a way of restating that we had a winning team.
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I think that the way KSU fans follow recruiting has tempered over the years. There used to be much more hype following it, but I think as we had more Chris Boggas and Daniel Davis types the enthusiasm became more realistic.
And as far as stars go, the "diamond in the rough" method can work in football to build a really solid program, but there is no doubt the teams that stay in the top 10 year after year usually have a lot of 4 star players and not very many 2 star players. Your odds get better of finding players the more of those 4 star guys you bring, even if many don't live up to their hype. As has been talked about before, out of any football class if you can consistently have 12 or so of the 25 become contibutors you're doing pretty well. Our problem was that lately as the program took a down turn that number was much lower in the single digits. Its a nice story that our (arguably) top 3 players right now (Watts, Nelson, and Campbell) are former walk-ons, but its not the make-up of a program that is going to compete for the north title on a consistent basis.
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Is anyone here pretending that our recruiting has ever been top twenty caliber? Just checking.
As it was rated or how it turned out?
As it was rated. There's a big misconception about how highly the recruits of that era were rated. Some seem to think that they were rated higher than our recruits of the past five years or so. That is simply not true.
See, I think our recruiting was "top 20" caliber during that time, but only because of how it produced, rather than the number of stars next to their names as seniors in highschool.
Well, then that's just a stupid made up stat to make yourself feel better about recruiting because it is nothing more than another way of stating that we had a winning team. No one else rates recruiting that way. Why should KSU fans?
It's not a matter of rating, rather evaluating how that class played out over time. It's fine if everyone wants to get excited over a top 15 recruiting class (2002), I'd rather get excited because in 3-4 years we actually won something with those recruits as the core of the team instead of going through 2 losing seasons their 3rd and 4th years.
Again, you're not talking about recruiting, then. You're talking about winning. There's nothing wrong with that. I just fail to see why so many KSU fans have trouble making these distinctions.
So when Snyder was hauling in top 40-60 classes and finishing in the top 25, was it just that every single recruiting service was retarded or that Snyder and Co. were excellent recruiters/evaluators, or that Snyder and Co. were magicians that could take crap talent and win 11 games?
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I'm just saying that it's completely meaningless to conclude that UF had the best recruting a few years ago based on the fact that they won the national title. It's just as meaningless as concluding that UF had the best facilities based on the fact that they won the national title.
OK.
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So when Snyder was hauling in top 40-60 classes and finishing in the top 25, was it just that every single recruiting service was retarded or that Snyder and Co. were excellent recruiters/evaluators, or that Snyder and Co. were magicians that could take crap talent and win 11 games?
It could be that there is a lot more that goes into a winning team than how its players were evaluated out of high school. I don't know why you didn't consider this option.
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My contention is that the "experts" are pretty good at figuring out the top 5 to 10 out of highschool at each position. After that, they are just completely lost, and they don't have a friggin clue about JUCO. However, since they can get the top few correct, and the big name schools (Ohio St. UT, Florida schools ect.) get all those players, they keep their credibility. The "stars matter" camp will always point to the fact that the top ten teams are generally the top 10 recruiting schools. Since K-State doesn't fall in that catagory, it's a complete waste of time to follow the recruiting rankings.
I am convinced that K-State has had so many 5-star busts, because Rivals just throws 4 or 5 stars on almost every JUCO that commits to K-State in response to how good the 96 class turned out. They have been trying to figure out how to account for the Bishop, Kelly, McDonald factor for years...without actually having to watch JUCO players. The 96 class was the first class I followed during recruiting. It wasn't even top 40 at the time, but in hindsight, it probably should have been number 1. It's the reason we started to get top 25 classes...not because we were getting better talent, but because the "experts" were trying to adjust for what we were getting. They continually guessed wrong for years.
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I think most of the services have gotten "better" at how they do their rankings; they get much more film and have gotten better on how they evaluate it. That said, college football still shows that recruiting rankings are at best an inexact science on a consistent basis.
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So when Snyder was hauling in top 40-60 classes and finishing in the top 25, was it just that every single recruiting service was retarded or that Snyder and Co. were excellent recruiters/evaluators, or that Snyder and Co. were magicians that could take crap talent and win 11 games?
It could be that there is a lot more that goes into a winning team than how its players were evaluated out of high school. I don't know why you didn't consider this option.
I think I'm confused, because I complete agree with that line of thinking. I don't put too much stock into football recruiting rankings, but at the same time I understand that, generally speaking, the rankings do in part provide some insight in predicting future success.
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There was an ESPN column in the late 90's early 00's that had a composite top 25 ranking for the previous x number of years and compared it with a composite top 25 recruiting list for the same number of years. The correlation between the two lists was striking. Snyder's teams were singled out for being the sole program that showed up highly on the former list, by not on the later one.
What that tells me is that you can build a great team without highly ranked recruiting classes, but it's not that likely. Prince has yet to show that he has that kind of ability. And the odds are strongly against him if he doesn't sign highly regarded classes.
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It could be that there is a lot more that goes into a winning team than how its players were evaluated out of high school.
Not really, no.
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It could be that there is a lot more that goes into a winning team than how its players were evaluated out of high school. I don't know why you didn't consider this option.
True, but what changed for KSU, starting with the 2004 season? The coaching staff only lost one person over Snyder's last 4 seasons. The S&C program didn't change. The facilities didn't change. What made us start losing?
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It could be that there is a lot more that goes into a winning team than how its players were evaluated out of high school.
Not really, no.
You can't win this argument. You think there is a one-to-one correlation between recruiting and winning.
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It could be that there is a lot more that goes into a winning team than how its players were evaluated out of high school. I don't know why you didn't consider this option.
True, but what changed for KSU, starting with the 2004 season? The coaching staff only lost one person over Snyder's last 4 seasons. The S&C program didn't change. The facilities didn't change. What made us start losing?
Hell if I know. It probably has something to do with a growing apathy in general, though. The recruiting process certainly didn't change that much, did it?
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Hell if I know. It probably has something to do with a growing apathy in general, though. The recruiting process certainly didn't change that much, did it?
Who was apathetic? The coaches?
Is there a one-to-one correlation between apathy and wins?
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It could be that there is a lot more that goes into a winning team than how its players were evaluated out of high school. I don't know why you didn't consider this option.
True, but what changed for KSU, starting with the 2004 season? The coaching staff only lost one person over Snyder's last 4 seasons. The S&C program didn't change. The facilities didn't change. What made us start losing?
Poor recruiting.
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Hell if I know. It probably has something to do with a growing apathy in general, though. The recruiting process certainly didn't change that much, did it?
Who was apathetic? The coaches?
Whoever it was, there were too many of them.
Is there a one-to-one correlation between apathy and wins?
Enough apathy is sufficient for losing. There's no question about that. Now that I think about it, the notion of complacency probably provides a better stab-in-the-dark explanation than apathy.
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Enough apathy is sufficient for losing. There's no question about that. Now that I think about it, the notion of complacency probably provides a better stab-in-the-dark explanation than apathy.
Is apathy (or lack thereof) a stronger factor in determining wins/losses than evaluation of high school talent?
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Enough apathy is sufficient for losing. There's no question about that. Now that I think about it, the notion of complacency probably provides a better stab-in-the-dark explanation than apathy.
Is apathy (or lack thereof) a stronger factor in determining wins/losses than evaluation of high school talent?
You ask weird questions, man. Apathy can trump talent. That's all you need for the explanation of the downfall.
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Sometimes people get comfortable. Sometimes they don't work as hard as they used to. Sometimes change is good.
1 of 2 changes were necessary when Snyder retired; Snyder retiring or Snyder firing most of his staff.
We'll see if the change that happened ends up good. Year 1 was a success even with the finish.
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Prince has yet to show that he has that kind of ability.
Did everyone know that snyder was going to be the winner he turned out to be in his first year?
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I'll give a captain obvious statement: The fall of the program was due to the same reasons as the rise of the program: (1) KSU had talented assistant coaches (6 went on to be head coaches, 7 if you count Del Miller) that (2) brought in talented players (whether they had stars or not is irrelevant) in part because of (3) the lack of success by OU and UT and (4) developed and motivated those players to play at a high level....We were never the same program since the players that BV, Mike Stoops, and the fat man recruited graduated. Recruiting drove the rise and fall, the assistants facilitated that recruiting (and development).
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There was an ESPN column in the late 90's early 00's that had a composite top 25 ranking for the previous x number of years and compared it with a composite top 25 recruiting list for the same number of years. The correlation between the two lists was striking. Snyder's teams were singled out for being the sole program that showed up highly on the former list, by not on the later one.
What that tells me is that you can build a great team without highly ranked recruiting classes, but it's not that likely. Prince has yet to show that he has that kind of ability. And the odds are strongly against him if he doesn't sign highly regarded classes.
I don't remember that particular column, but I do remember that teams like VaTech, Oregon, Oregon St., Wisconson and Southern Miss. (to name a few) were doing very well without the top recruiting classes. K-State was clearly the best at it though. Even Nebraska and OU of the 90's are decent examles, as NU class were generally in the 20's while they were winning multiple MNCs and OUs (prestoops) were in the teens while not making or barely making bowl games.
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Chum, look at the schools we were beating out then.
Then look at right now.
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Chum, look at the schools we were beating out then.
Then look at right now.
If you're saying that we're going to suck, I have to agree.
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Chum, look at the schools we were beating out then.
Then look at right now.
If you're saying that we're going to suck, I have to agree.
I got you to sidestep. Best moment of my life.
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I was trying not to be mean. Now, which time frames are we talking about? This is critical for arriving at your predetermined desired answer, so think ahead carefully.
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I was trying not to be mean. Now, which time frames are we talking about? This is critical for arriving at your predetermined desired answer, so think ahead carefully.
We should check out 1999 first.
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http://members.tripod.com/peitsch/99recruits.htm
DT - Anthony Bates ---------- 6'1'' 280 4.80 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) I feel bad. (RIP)
WR - LaRoy Bias ------------- 6'0'' 180 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top 50 midlands. Top 30 wr.
LB - Josh Buhl --------------- 6'0'' 193 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top 20 lb. Beat out NU, SU, Baylor.
WR - Derrick Evans -------- 5'11'' 165 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top 10 wr in Big 12 region. Beat CU, CSU, ASU, WSU, and Michigan.
DT - Mario Fatafehi ---------- 6'2'' 295 4.95 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) 1st team Juco AA. Beat out BYU, ASU NU, UW, and WSU.
OL - John Gardner ---------- 6'10'' 280 5.00 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top 5 OL in MoKan region. Beat ku, CU, CSU, NW.
RB - Joe Hall ----------------- 6'2'' 260 4.59 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Beat UNLV, Bama, OU, and Utah.
LB - Bryan Hickman --------- 6'2'' 215 4.60 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top 100 in TX. Beat MU, Cuse, ASU, and TAMU.
TE - Thomas Hill ------------- 6'5'' 250 4.80 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Played for 2 years.
DE - Cliff Holloman ---------- 6'3'' 265 4.75 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top 5 Juco player. Could be 5 stars I guess. Beat ku, Tennessee, Purdue, and Houston.
OL - Oshin Honarchian ------ 6'5'' 280 5.20 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top 100 Juco. Beat South Carolina.
DE - Thomas Houchin ------- 6'4'' 240 4.80 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Nothing special, beat Tulsa.
RB - Rashad Jackson ------- 5'10'' 190 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top KS rb.
WR - Ricky Lloyd ------------5'10'' 180 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Nothing special.
OL - Matt Martin ------------- 6'6'' 260 4.90 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Nothing special.
RB - Danny Morris ----------- 6'0'' 200 4.50 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top 10 rb in nation. Beat out Ohio State, OSU, OU, Tennessee, CSU.
DT - Justin Montgomery -----6'2'' 280 4.90 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Nothing special.
LB - Terry Pierce ------------ 6'3'' 235 4.60 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Committed to MU, then switched.
FB - Brandt Quick ----------- 6'1'' 235 4.70 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top 20 at FB. Beat Tulane, NW, MSU, LSU.
OL - Ben Rettele ------------ 6'4'' 280 5.10 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Nothing special.
QB - Ell Roberson ----------- 6'1'' 190 4.50 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top 25 qb. Named top offensive player in TX. Beat Arizona, ND, and Mizzou.
DE - Andrew Shull ----------- 6'5'' 225 4.79 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top de in MO.
DB - Rashad Washington ---- 6'4'' 210 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top MoKan player.
DB - Errick Wilson ----------- 6'0'' 170 4.58 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Juco placement.
DE - Corey White ------------ 6'3'' 235 4.80 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Beat MU and OSU, Juco placement.
WR - George Williams ------- 6'1'' 190 4.38 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Good stats, and fast.
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No, it is one-one.
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No, it is one-one.
What else could it be?
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The fall of the program IMO happened 80% due to the talent/experience at the assistant coach positions. From coordinator all the way down. Bielma was the last gifted coordinator we had, and look what he's doin as a HC. If Snyder could've somehow hung on to him another couple years, he would be the HC right now. Why Snyder couldnt get the same level of coordinators, etc in as he did in the 90's is unknown. Maybe it was apathy on his part, maybe the well just ran dry and he ran out of connections.
KSU's talent level (perception wise out of high school) has never been among the nations elite. Snyder (and more importantly assistants) ability to spot talent and develop it diminished in the last years of his tenure. Hence, suckage.
And...a lot of the lack of supposed talent had to do with everyone finally picking up on Snyder's brilliance of gleaning the JUCO ranks for top talent. He truly was an innovator there.
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http://members.tripod.com/peitsch/99recruits.htm
DT - Anthony Bates ---------- 6'1'' 280 4.80 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) I feel bad. (RIP)
WR - LaRoy Bias ------------- 6'0'' 180 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top 50 midlands. Top 30 wr.
LB - Josh Buhl --------------- 6'0'' 193 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top 20 lb. Beat out NU, SU, Baylor.
WR - Derrick Evans -------- 5'11'' 165 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top 10 wr in Big 12 region. Beat CU, CSU, ASU, WSU, and Michigan.
DT - Mario Fatafehi ---------- 6'2'' 295 4.95 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) 1st team Juco AA. Beat out BYU, ASU NU, UW, and WSU.
OL - John Gardner ---------- 6'10'' 280 5.00 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top 5 OL in MoKan region. Beat ku, CU, CSU, NW.
RB - Joe Hall ----------------- 6'2'' 260 4.59 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Beat UNLV, Bama, OU, and Utah.
LB - Bryan Hickman --------- 6'2'' 215 4.60 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top 100 in TX. Beat MU, Cuse, ASU, and TAMU.
TE - Thomas Hill ------------- 6'5'' 250 4.80 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Played for 2 years.
DE - Cliff Holloman ---------- 6'3'' 265 4.75 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top 5 Juco player. Could be 5 stars I guess. Beat ku, Tennessee, Purdue, and Houston.
OL - Oshin Honarchian ------ 6'5'' 280 5.20 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top 100 Juco. Beat South Carolina.
DE - Thomas Houchin ------- 6'4'' 240 4.80 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Nothing special, beat Tulsa.
RB - Rashad Jackson ------- 5'10'' 190 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top KS rb.
WR - Ricky Lloyd ------------5'10'' 180 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Nothing special.
OL - Matt Martin ------------- 6'6'' 260 4.90 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Nothing special.
RB - Danny Morris ----------- 6'0'' 200 4.50 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top 10 rb in nation. Beat out Ohio State, OSU, OU, Tennessee, CSU.
DT - Justin Montgomery -----6'2'' 280 4.90 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Nothing special.
LB - Terry Pierce ------------ 6'3'' 235 4.60 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Committed to MU, then switched.
FB - Brandt Quick ----------- 6'1'' 235 4.70 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top 20 at FB. Beat Tulane, NW, MSU, LSU.
OL - Ben Rettele ------------ 6'4'' 280 5.10 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Nothing special.
QB - Ell Roberson ----------- 6'1'' 190 4.50 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top 25 qb. Named top offensive player in TX. Beat Arizona, ND, and Mizzou.
DE - Andrew Shull ----------- 6'5'' 225 4.79 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top de in MO.
DB - Rashad Washington ---- 6'4'' 210 4.40 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Top MoKan player.
DB - Errick Wilson ----------- 6'0'' 170 4.58 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Juco placement.
DE - Corey White ------------ 6'3'' 235 4.80 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Beat MU and OSU, Juco placement.
WR - George Williams ------- 6'1'' 190 4.38 (http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif)(http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/database/stargold.gif) Good stats, and fast.
What am I supposed to compare this to? A list of the 2007 class? In order to make a fair comparison, I'll need some help with GPC's mythical "also offered by" portion of that list.
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It's all in fun.
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Here's a fun analogy. Suppose you sample two versions of the same dinner, each prepared by a different chef. The dinner on plate A tastes much, much better to you than the dinner on plate B. It's just not even close. Should you conclude on that basis alone that the ingredients used to make the dinner on plate A were superior to those used to make the dinner on plate B? Of course not. Perhaps, for example, the chef who prepared the dinner on plate A actually had inferior ingredients, but is just the vastly superior chef.
In the very same way, one shouldn't conclude that a recruiting class was good solely because the team is good a few years down the road.
Edit made for clarification
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Ever notice how close most iron chef battles are?
**HINT** They use the same ingredients.
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LOL. Purely manufactured drama for television.
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Oh! Bullsh1t! They have judges!
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I'm concerned about chum's lack of EMAW and sign waving. :frown:
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I just took a huge powercat-shaped dump. It was purple.
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i love landing 4-5 star players but lets be honest, the place where star ratings matter the most is the NCAA football 07 if you can develop talent, and some times the scouts cant even see anyone so they just give them like 2 stars