KSUFans Archives
Sports => Snyder's Electronic Cyber Space World => Topic started by: WildCatzPhreak on April 19, 2007, 02:21:30 PM
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I'll start off by admitting that I don't know a lot about any of our teams pre 2002. Why? Well I got to K-state in 04, and while I was a K-state fan throughout my life, I didn't start paying attention(or caring) about any details other than W/L/Bowl game until about halfway through high school. So I don't know about a lot of studs on past teams we've had.
Here goes anyways. Help me fill out mine, and fill out your own.
1st team offense:
QB: Michael Bishop
HB: Darren Sproles
FB: Rock Cartwright??
RG:??
RT:??
C:??
LT:??
LG:??
TE: ??
WR: Lockett
WR: ??
1st team defense:
DE: ??
DL: ??
NT: ??
DL: ??
DE: ??
LB: Mark Simeneau
LB: Gary Spani
LB: ??
CB: Terrence Newman
CB: ??
SS: ??
FS: ??
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1st team offense:
QB: Ell
HB: Darren Sproles
FB: Rock Cartwright??
RG: Lilja
RT:Weiner
C:Leckey
LT:McCintosh
LG:?
TE: Shad Meier
WR: Lockett
WR: Morgan
1st team defense:
DE: Chris Johnson
DL: Fatafehi
DL: Reese
DE: Darren Howard
LB: Mark Simeneau
LB: Spani
LB: Terry Pierce/Jeff Kelly (too hard)
CB: Terrence Newman
CB: Chris Canty
SS: Mendez
FS: Jon McGraw
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Goolsby would be my choice over Rock at FB. Didn't run the ball much but hit harder than anyone we have ever had on offense. Also, he gets extra credit fo rbeing a hell of a basketball player.
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Travis Wilson was a darn good fullback as well. Ran the option and qb leads outstanding.
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Bishop > Roberson.
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Bishop > Roberson.
QFT
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Bishop>>>>>>>>>>Roberson
at fumbling in the biggest games in school History.
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I think Ryan Young at LT was better than McIntosh. Put Mac at LG, since he could play anywhere along the line.
What about Evan Simpson at DT?
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Bishop>>>>>>>>>>Roberson
at fumbling in the biggest games in school History.
Once. We wouldn't have been close to where we were if it weren't for Bishop. Ell screwed us over in regards to our second Fiesta Bowl.
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Roberson would have won it all in 98.
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Roberson would have won it all in 98.
Wow, I used to tell you to stick to football, but your football thoughts are almost worse than your basketball ones.
Almost.
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Michael Bishop was by far the best QB KSU has ever had. On this issue their can be no debate.
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Give me a break, the 03 team could have easily contended for a national championship. And had Ell not gotten hurt he would have contended for the heisman and probably won after the throttling of the Sooners.
Look at their career stats, and the stats from 98 and 03. Pretty much even.
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The only reason people don't give ell his due is because of the hotel incedent.
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Give me a break, the 03 team could have easily contended for a national championship. And had Ell not gotten hurt he would have contended for the heisman and probably won after the throttling of the Sooners.
Look at their career stats, and the stats from 98 and 03. Pretty much even.
No.
With Ell at QB or not, a team that loses to Marshall at home does not deserve to mentioned as a national title contender.
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The "Team" didn't lose to marshall, the "Team" didn't pitch the ball to a Dlineman on the goal line. The "team" didn't drop the winning pass in the endzone. The "team" didn't keep calling qb run plays for Jeff Schwinn.
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They were like number 4 when they lost that game, they were 6 preseason, Ell and Darren were both preseason Heisman contenders and Ell was leading ESPN's heisman chart when he was injured.
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I imagine their career stats are about the same, considering Ell played for 3 seasons and Bishop for two.
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They lost to MARSHALL.
With or without Ell, we didn't have the ability to stop their rungame. It was disgusting.
I'll go to my grave thinking the 98 team was our best team. (Unless Prince or his successor surprises the hell out of me.) 03 was a close second.
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Every list needs to include
Wiren
Bishop
Randolph/Canty/Newman
Mendez
Ryan Young
Barrret Brooks
Jeff Kelly
Leckey
Colston
Gramattica
Snyder
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Swift and probably even Hill were better than Shad Meier :ustupid:
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and yes Goolsby could make any running back look good, Hickson and Laurence were not that great of runners. Cartwright was probably a better runner, but when did we ever run it to our fullback.
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1st team offense:
QB: Ell
HB: Darren Sproles
FB: Rock Cartwright??
RG: Lilja
RT:Weiner
C:Leckey
LT:McCintosh
LG:?
TE: Shad Meier
WR: Lockett
WR: Morgan
1st team defense:
DE: Chris Johnson
DL: Fatafehi
DL: Reese
DE: Darren Howard
LB: Mark Simeneau
LB: Spani
LB: Terry Pierce/Jeff Kelly (too hard)
CB: Terrence Newman
CB: Chris Canty
SS: Mendez
FS: Jon McGraw
1st team offense:
qb: bishop
hb: sproles
fb: cartwright
rt: weiner
g: lilja
c: leckey
g: jacox
lt: young
te: meier
wr: lockett
wr: morgan
1st team defense:
de: beisel (maybe alexander or wiren)
dt: fatafehi (maybe singletary)
dt: colston
de: howard
lb: simoneau
lb: spani
lb: kelly
cb: newman
cb: scott
ss: cooper
fs: mendez
hb for 2 hb sets - switzer
3rd wr - coleman
nickel back - canty
dime back - randolph
kick returns - coleman
punt returns - allen
kicker - martin
punter - snyder
equip. mgr. - shorty
pc - brooks vs. weiner was tough for me.
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Cooper!!!! :lol: Biggest waste of space i've ever seen. he was just lucky he played on the best K-state teams of all time
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Cooper!!!! :lol: Biggest waste of space i've ever seen. he was just lucky he played on the best K-state teams of all time
you just flunked ksu 101.
please transfer to the craphole 90 mins east.
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Cooper!!!! :lol: Biggest waste of space i've ever seen. he was just lucky he played on the best K-state teams of all time
you just flunked ksu 101.
please transfer to the craphole 90 mins east.
you are joking right?
Who couldnt make the tackle on Sir Parker? Jared Cooper
Who probably had more late hits and unsportsman-like conduct calls than anybody in KSU history? Cooper
Who was surrounded by the best D in KSU history? Cooper
were you like 5 years old in 98? :ustupid:
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name the dbs in ksu history with more tackles.
now name the players, any position, in ksu history with more unassisted tackles.
if cooper's success was due to all the great defenders around him making plays, he wouldn't be that high on the unassisted list, would he?
as for the sirr parker crap, that makes as much sense as saying bishop sux cause he fumbled.
you really are an assclown.
fyi -- i bet you have no clue on the first two points i made. i further bet you will not want to educate yourself.
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Who probably had more late hits and unsportsman-like conduct calls than anybody in KSU history? Cooper
McKinney will probably rival that by the end of next year
On another note, my brother caught a Frisbee with Jared's cell phone number on the back of it at the Alamo Bowl pep rally.
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Pretty good list SPS.
Here's my changes to your list.
Weiner should be at LT and Young at RT.
I'll put Campbell at TE.
Wiren over Bisel.
Canty over Scott.
And I like Coop, but I'll take the versatility of Washington at SS.
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Remember when Ell fumbled away the Texas game in 2003? Driving late when we had the lead, fumbled it. VY came in and threw the long pass and Texas took the game. That leads to the Okie State loss also. I'm not taking anything away from Ell, he had a great career and Bishops fumble was bigger but still...
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/recap?gid=200310040083
(Spare me the inevitable "it was his first game back from injury" argument. I know it.)
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No. 1 QB: Bishop
No. 2 QB: Jonathan Beasley, only QB to lead K-State to back-2-back bowl wins. Not saying he was as good as Roberson, but he was steady.
KR, PR: David Allen, Aaron Lockett
Defense: Travis Ochs, Josh Buhl, Mario Smith
Cooper did pile up the penalties, and he had his coverage flaws, but he brought that nasty streak, that fierce attitude, to the defense. Surround him with playmakers, and let him be the "loose cannon."
R.J.
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Specail Teams all around greatest player - Crash Ecklar.
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Any list that doesn't have Quentin Neujhar at center is wrong. There will be no exceptions made to this rule. UNANIMOUS All Big 8 by coaches and writers (on EVERY ballot) back in 93 when NU, OU, and CU were all still national contenders every year.
Off soap box.
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Remember when Ell fumbled away the Texas game in 2003? Driving late when we had the lead, fumbled it. VY came in and threw the long pass and Texas took the game.
Yes, I remember it well. I remember that the Texas defender who caused the fumble did a damn good job at stripping the ball. Texas was a good team that year.
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BTW, Roberson is the #1, Bishop is the #2. I know how exciting Bishop was, I was there with most of you, but what most of us tend to forget is how often Bishop ran into busted plays. He threw alot of passes in the dirt and alot of times his runs went nowhere. And he got stuffed in Lincoln baaaad.
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ROBERSON
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Thank god others see the light.
I will admit that I am very biased because I never saw Bishop play and don't have an emotional attachment to him.
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nobody agrees with u cire the only thing close to agreeing with you was the guy that said "surround him with good players and he is good
i cant believe you would take cooper over washington, mendez, and gordon
and show me the stats that says he had the most tackles of anbody in the secondary
BTW safties usually do get a lot of "unassisted tackles" because they are the last resort, look how many solos Watts has in his career dumbass
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Swift and probably even Hill were better than Shad Meier :ustupid:
Swift maybe, forgot about him, but you bring up hill had too many injuries.
Chris Johnson has to be on the list, isn't he the career leader in sacks?
McGraw and Mendez are both light years better than Coop, so was Rashaad Washington.
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BTW, Roberson is the #1, Bishop is the #2. I know how exciting Bishop was, I was there with most of you, but what most of us tend to forget is how often Bishop ran into busted plays. He threw alot of passes in the dirt and alot of times his runs went nowhere. And he got stuffed in Lincoln baaaad.
Yeah, Roberson never threw any passes in the dirt. :rolleyes: I've had season tickets since 1995 so I had the chance to see both of them in person. Bishop was one of the most physically gifted QB's you will ever see. The guy could throw it accurately off his back foot about 70 yards. He could juke you on the run, or he could bulldoze you and keep on going. He had it all. Roberson was good, but he was certainly no Michael Bishop. Also, I can't believe Darnell McDonald hasn't made this list. He had some of the hugest games ever for us.
Cireksu, how can you say Roberson is better if you never saw Bishop play? This baffles me.
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i was just thinking the same thing about darnell, i think he was our second best wr of all time behind morgan.
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Cooper was good in 98 and 99, but he regressed during his senior year in 2000. In fact, he was almost a weak spot as I recall. Wasn't he hit by an automobile or something that offseason?
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There is no question who the #1 QB at KSU is. None whatsoever. Anyone who says Roberson either never saw Bishop play or else is 12 years old.
Michael Bishop was a special player. I go back and watch my tapes from 1998 and can't believe how good that team was. It would have probably beaten the 2003 team about 35-14.
Jeebus, people. All you have to remember is that aTm was ranked 10th in the polls and 8th in the BCS going into that game, and it was a HUGE upset...stunning...when they won.
That Kansas State team pounded everyone it played until it came down to Nebraska, Mizzou, and aTm.
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Anyone who says Roberson either never saw Bishop play or else is 12 years old.
Yeah, it seems like everyone that has seen both play rate Bishop much higher. It's pretty clear why people favor Roberson.
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That Kansas State team pounded everyone it played until it came down to Nebraska, Mizzou, and aTm.
.........and Purdue.
:blindfold:
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I meant never saw him in person. Bottom line, I think at best they were equals, had Roberson come along first, he would be held in the same esteem. And had he not had his "altercation" he would be held in higher esteem. Roberson did 2 things that Bishop could not, pisspound NU in Lincoln, and pisspound the greatest team of all time to get the big 12 CCG. The 98 team was great, but the 03 team was not far behind if at all. The 00 team was pretty good, and the 03 team was in a complete different world.
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I saw virtually every second of every game that both Bishop and Roberson played and there is no doubt in my mind that Roberson was better.
He was Snyder's vision of what a quarterback should be, which was a perfect vision, and he was nearly perfect in the role.
Run first, throw deep, throw hard.
Win games.
The Bishop supporters almost certainly cannot get past Roberson's sophomore year...
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The Bishop supporters almost certainly cannot get past Roberson's sophomore year...
It's his horrible throwing accuracy for me. That's kind of an important element of the game for QB's. FYI.
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Also, the 2003 team was better than the 1998 team for one reason: Roberson and Sproles.
That combination will never again be matched by any tandem we ever have.
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The Bishop supporters almost certainly cannot get past Roberson's sophomore year...
It's his horrible throwing accuracy for me. That's kind of an important element of the game for QB's. FYI.
56% or so as a senior, I believe.
Plenty good enough for a "running quarterback".
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Anyone who says Roberson either never saw Bishop play or else is 12 years old.
Yeah, it seems like everyone that has seen both play rate Bishop much higher. It's pretty clear why people favor Roberson.
anybody here ever heard of LYNN DICKEY or STEVE GROGAN?
I never saw them in college, and you can't compare stats b/c they were on much less talented teams. However, if you consider that each had long and successful careers as starting QBs in the NFL, then both are arguably >>> than Bishop and Roberson.
At least Spani made the list.
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Contrary to the belief of homer and insane (PoetWarrior) KSU fans, we were also nowhere near a national championship with Roberson. Bishop was clearly more of a winner.
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Anyone who says Roberson either never saw Bishop play or else is 12 years old.
Yeah, it seems like everyone that has seen both play rate Bishop much higher. It's pretty clear why people favor Roberson.
anybody here ever heard of LYNN DICKEY or STEVE GROGAN?
I never saw them in college, and you can't compare stats b/c they were on much less talented teams. However, if you consider that each had long and successful careers as starting QBs in the NFL, then both are arguably >>> than Bishop and Roberson.
At least Spani made the list.
Yeah, you're probably right. I think lists like this are stupid. I just commented due to the Roberson lovers who are even more stupid.
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Paul Coffman should have made the list too, but his douchebag son Chase ruined it for him.
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Anyone who says Roberson either never saw Bishop play or else is 12 years old.
Yeah, it seems like everyone that has seen both play rate Bishop much higher. It's pretty clear why people favor Roberson.
anybody here ever heard of LYNN DICKEY or STEVE GROGAN?
I never saw them in college, and you can't compare stats b/c they were on much less talented teams. However, if you consider that each had long and successful careers as starting QBs in the NFL, then both are arguably >>> than Bishop and Roberson.
At least Spani made the list.
Yeah, you're probably right. I think lists like this are stupid. I just commented due to the Roberson lovers who are even more stupid.
More stupid than Michael Bishop?
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IIRC, Roberson was rated a 95 on the ps2 game.
Also, IIRC, the running game set up long passes, debunking the "low passing accuracy = bad quarterback" theory. Didn't we average around 20 yards per reception during the Bishop/Beasley/Roberson era?
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somewhere on the depth chart I'm sticking in WR Smith & Fernandez
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kst8cat - coop tore his pec and wasn't quite the same after that. but he's cashed a nfl paycheck every year since, and that aint shabby.
i cant believe you would take cooper over washington, mendez, and gordon
and show me the stats that says he had the most tackles of anbody in the secondary
BTW safties usually do get a lot of "unassisted tackles" because they are the last resort, look how many solos Watts has in his career dumbass
goCATSgo - you're so stupid it aint funny. you have no idea what you're talking about.
mendez was a free safety, and that's where i put him. gordon was a CORNERBACK.
here's the link that has cooper all over the boards with tackles: http://www.kstatesports.com/pdf5/41380.pdf?SPSID=3064&SPID=212&DB_OEM_ID=400 (http://www.kstatesports.com/pdf5/41380.pdf?SPSID=3064&SPID=212&DB_OEM_ID=400)
#12 in career total tackles, only dbs ahead of him are hundley (fs) with 4 more tackles and mendez, another fs, with 3 more tackles. you'll note that washington and gordon don't make the top twenty-five.
as for your blithering stupidity about safeties and unassisted tackles, well, look at the list.
cooper at #4, behind three lbs (simoneau, buhl and spani). ahead of mendez. and there's more front 7 players on the unassisted tackles list than dbs.
cooper was also second team all american by at least one publication. please name another ksu strong safety that ever got that recognition. you won't find one. you also wont find a ksu ss with third team recognition. or honorable mention.
end of the day, cooper dominates every other ksu ss in history in total tackles, unassisted tackles, all-american recognition.
but he missed a tackle his freshman season.
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You know why these type of threads aren't stupid?
It's the offseason.
As far as some of the older guys like Lynn Dickie are concerned, I think they were great for their time. But if you lined up a team of each player in their prime, would you honestly rather have someone like Bishop/Roberson or Dickie? The choice is pretty easy for me.
The game is just different now than it was back then.
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but he missed a tackle his freshman season.
Actually I think it was Jeramitrius Butler (freshman) that got burned on that slant by Sir Parker as I recall. He was caught off balance and fell down at Parker's feet. But maybe Coop missed the tackle later in the play, though. I'm not going to rewatch it to find out.
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2003 team better than 1998?
http://catzone.cjonline.com/allcenturyteam.shtml (http://catzone.cjonline.com/allcenturyteam.shtml)
The 2003 team lost three regular season games, including to Marshall - in Manhattan. That loss right there should disqualify any comparisons. Yes, Schwinn was the quarterback, and the coaches called a lousy gameplan (Schwinn out ran Sproles, if I remember correctly), but the defense and special teams underperformed that day, too. I'm not saying the 2003 team wasn't good. It recovered and ended the season playing as well as anyone, which is what usually counts.
But, the 1998 squad was special. Simply because K-State had never seen anything like it before, at least, not dressed as a Wildcat. The 1998 team is the only K-State team, I believe, to have an undefeated regular season, and come within 3 minutes of playing in the national championship game (we would have dominated Tennessee). The 1998 squad was ranked #2 in the nation. The defense didn't give up more than nine points until the Nebraska game (30). And if you want to compare breakthroughs, Bishop lead K-State to its first win against NU in 30 years. Bishop's two year record is 22-3. He was the first Wildcat to be invited to the Heisman ceremonies, even though Ricky Williams was a lock to win the award. For the season, the team scored 610 points vs. giving up 197 on defense. Fumbles and penalties were the glaring deficiencies of that season. After losing to Texas AM, the coaching staff was raided. The collective spirit of the team, fan base, and university was sapped. Bishop tried to will the team to victory over Purdue (Drew Brees, Roosevelt Colvin), but the team was uninspired. Loosing its coaches caught up to the defense, and it surrendered the game-deciding touchdown in the final 30 seconds. The final two games were definitely not the way to end a story book season, but nothing less, the 1998 team was magic.
R.J.
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I meant never saw him in person. Bottom line, I think at best they were equals, had Roberson come along first, he would be held in the same esteem. And had he not had his "altercation" he would be held in higher esteem. Roberson did 2 things that Bishop could not, pisspound NU in Lincoln, and pisspound the greatest team of all time to get the big 12 CCG. The 98 team was great, but the 03 team was not far behind if at all. The 00 team was pretty good, and the 03 team was in a complete different world.
Oklahoma wasn't the greatest team of all time. They lost to LSU right after they lost to us in 2003.
The reason Bishop didn't beat NU in Lincoln was because the NU team was coached by Tom Osborne and they went on to win the national championship. Whereas Ell played a team coached by Frank Solich who was fired right after that season.
Things that Bishop has that Ell doesn't.
A Davey O'Brien award. A 22-3 all time collegiate record. A Fiesta Bowl Victory. A number 1 ranking at one point. 2 junior college national championships (24-0). An invite to the Heisman Trophy ceremony. A win over every Big XII team. Minutes in a junior college baseball game. Two seasons as a starter in Div. 1 football. Can say that he's been drafted, is still playing professionally and has minutes/completions in an NFL game. A penis. Talent.
Bishop >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ell Roberson
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Specail Teams all around greatest player - Crash Ecklar.
Brice Freaking Libel. That guy seemed to be in on every tackle for fifteen years in a row. I was amazed that a white kid, no bigger than me, could create so much havoc on a football field.
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i would almost bet my life on joe gordon being a ss or fs. I remember he was #1 and played from like 92-95
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i would almost bet my life on joe gordon being a ss or fs. I remember he was #1 and played from like 92-95
i would advise against betting your life on that.
here's a little joe gordon background:
big 8 all conference - 1994, 1995 at cornerback
kevin saunders award - 1996 at cornerback
team captain - 1996 at cornerback
1995 hm all american (by nfl draft report) at cornerback
1994 aloha bowl mvp - at cornerback
1996 hula bowl - at cornerback
it's possible you're confusing him with chuck marlowe, a fs. or you really don't know your ksu history. and can't read the records file i provided.
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i would almost bet my life on joe gordon being a ss or fs. I remember he was #1 and played from like 92-95
K-State wasn't entirely healthy either. All-American Chris Canty, who was arrested for drunken driving last month, apparently hadn't had enough to drink Wednesday, as he was forced to leave due to dehydration. One play later Canty's replacement, Demetric Denmark, was burned deep by BYU's James Dye. Sarkisian found him for a 32-yard touchdown with 10:55 to play. Cougar kicker Ethan Pochman's point after was good to cut the gap to 15-12.
The Cougars got the ball back at their own 40 with five minutes remaining. Two quick completions to Chad Lewis and Kaipo McGuire gave the Cougs first down at the K-State 31. A three-yard scramble by Sarkisian and an incomplete pass to McGuire — in which the Cougar receiver's helmet was knocked off by a vicious hit by safety Mario Smith — and BYU was faced with a 3rd-and-7 at the 28.
Canty was still out with dehydration, however, and the Wildcats' other star cornerback Joe Gordon left the game after getting banged up. That left freshman corner Lamar Chapman in man-to-man coverage against BYU senior K.O. Kealaluhi.
Didn't realized Canty had been picked up for a Dewey that year. Anyway, sometimes I confuse Mario Smith with Joe Gordon. Then again, I was only eighteen when Gordon was drafted, and I was only a freshman, and not nearly the fan I would become the next year.
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canty withdrew from thorpe consideration after the dui. he hands down would have won it that year.
and he was dehydrated because he had too much to drink. the night before.
that bastard.
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Also, the 2003 team was better than the 1998 team for one reason: Roberson and Sproles.
That combination will never again be matched by any tandem we ever have.
for a football guy you kinda sux
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This is it. After 20 or so minutes of exhaustive research...
Offense
QB- Bishop
RB- Sproles
WR- K. Lockett
WR- Morgan
WR- Mike Smith
TE- Coffman
LT- Brooks
LG- Leckey
C- Neujahr
RG- Jacox
RT- Weiner
Defense
DE- Howard
DT- Colston
DT- Fatafehi
DE- Alexander
LB- Spani
LB- Barta
LB- Simoneau
CB- Newman
CB- Canty
FS- Mendez
SS- Washington
K- Gramatica
P- Snyder
KR- Aaron Lockett
Honorable Mention- Ell Roberson, Terry Pierce, Veryl Switzer, Steve Grogan, Lynn Dickey, Ryan Young, Jeremetrius Butler, Darnell McDonald, Justin Swift, Kenny McEntyre, Josh Scobey, Nyle Wiren, Ben Leber, Rock Cartwright, Jarrod Cooper, Dyshod Carter.
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This is it. After 20 or so minutes of exhaustive research...
Offense
QB- Bishop
RB- Sproles
WR- K. Lockett
WR- Morgan
WR- Mike Smith
TE- Coffman
LT- Brooks
LG- Leckey
C- Neujahr
RG- Jacox
RT- Weiner
Defense
DE- Howard
DT- Colston
DT- Fatafehi
DE- Alexander
LB- Spani
LB- Barta
LB- Simoneau
CB- Newman
CB- Canty
FS- Mendez
SS- Washington
K- Gramatica
P- Snyder
KR- Aaron Lockett
Honorable Mention- Ell Roberson, Terry Pierce, Veryl Switzer, Steve Grogan, Lynn Dickey, Ryan Young, Jeremetrius Butler, Darnell McDonald, Justin Swift, Kenny McEntyre, Josh Scobey, Nyle Wiren, Ben Leber, Rock Cartwright, Jarrod Cooper, Dyshod Carter.
This is a good list spanning the years. Having not seen a lot of those guys play in person, my list would be '97-'03 heavy and probably not be fairly representative. That being said your list sucks for having Ben Leber and not Jeff Kelly in the honorable mention.
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This is it. After 20 or so minutes of exhaustive research...
Offense
QB- Bishop
RB- Sproles
WR- K. Lockett
WR- Morgan
WR- Mike Smith
TE- Coffman
LT- Brooks
LG- Leckey
C- Neujahr
RG- Jacox
RT- Weiner
Defense
DE- Howard
DT- Colston
DT- Fatafehi
DE- Alexander
LB- Spani
LB- Barta
LB- Simoneau
CB- Newman
CB- Canty
FS- Mendez
SS- Washington
K- Gramatica
P- Snyder
KR- Aaron Lockett
Honorable Mention- Ell Roberson, Terry Pierce, Veryl Switzer, Steve Grogan, Lynn Dickey, Ryan Young, Jeremetrius Butler, Darnell McDonald, Justin Swift, Kenny McEntyre, Josh Scobey, Nyle Wiren, Ben Leber, Rock Cartwright, Jarrod Cooper, Dyshod Carter.
You win :thumbsup:
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Goolsby would be my choice over Rock at FB. Didn't run the ball much but hit harder than anyone we have ever had on offense. Also, he gets extra credit fo rbeing a hell of a basketball player.
Goolsby?
Rock is a career NFL guy and was a terrific blocking as well as recieving fb. Travis Wilson is still probably the best we've had at this level.
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This is it. After 20 or so minutes of exhaustive research...
Offense
QB- Bishop
RB- Sproles
WR- K. Lockett
WR- Morgan
WR- Mike Smith
TE- Coffman
LT- Brooks
LG- Leckey
C- Neujahr
RG- Jacox
RT- Weiner
Defense
DE- Howard
DT- Colston
DT- Fatafehi
DE- Alexander
LB- Spani
LB- Barta
LB- Simoneau
CB- Newman
CB- Canty
FS- Mendez
SS- Washington
K- Gramatica
P- Snyder
KR- Aaron Lockett
Honorable Mention- Ell Roberson, Terry Pierce, Veryl Switzer, Steve Grogan, Lynn Dickey, Ryan Young, Jeremetrius Butler, Darnell McDonald, Justin Swift, Kenny McEntyre, Josh Scobey, Nyle Wiren, Ben Leber, Rock Cartwright, Jarrod Cooper, Dyshod Carter.
how can you put lockett ahead of david allen as KR?
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I seriously can't believe that cire's arguments gloss over the fact that he never saw Bishop play. That alone is indicative of the ignorance.
I saw Bishop play in person 17 times in two years. I followed Ell's career closely.
To say that people don't think Roberson is better because of the hotel incident, or that the 2003 team could've won the NC or whatever pathetic argument you have is stupid.
Bishop as a starter: 23-3
Ell: 24-11 by my count *excluded beginning of 2002 until colorado game/wasn't sure about 2001 starters
Using their best years (senior seasons)
Bishop's help on Offense: ('98 season) Aaron Lockett (928 yards 6TDs), Darnell McDonald (1,092 yards 9TDs) Eric Hickson (169 attempts for 902 yards ? on TDs)
Ell's help on Offense: Darren Sproles (statistically speaking the single greatest season a KSU running back has ever had 1,986 yards 16 TDs 6.49 YPC!!!) James Terry (1,232 yards is a single season school record and 13TDs)
Bishop vs. Roberson:
Throwing
Bishop: 2,844 yards 23 TDs 164/295 56%
Roberson: 2,545 24 TDs 152/294 52%
Running
Bishop: 748 yards 14 TDs
Roberson: 975 yards 15 TDs
Factoring in that Ell Roberson had at his side a running back putting up eye popping numbers and a Heisman candidate in his own right and lost many more games than 'the Bish' I think it is safe to say that Bishop was better. Although the numbers were closer than I expected, Bishop also only had the benefit of two yrs. in the system straight from JuCo.
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This is it. After 20 or so minutes of exhaustive research...
Offense
QB- Bishop
RB- Sproles
WR- K. Lockett
WR- Morgan
WR- Mike Smith
TE- Coffman
LT- Brooks
LG- Leckey
C- Neujahr
RG- Jacox
RT- Weiner
Defense
DE- Howard
DT- Colston
DT- Fatafehi
DE- Alexander
LB- Spani
LB- Barta
LB- Simoneau
CB- Newman
CB- Canty
FS- Mendez
SS- Washington
K- Gramatica
P- Snyder
KR- Aaron Lockett
Honorable Mention- Ell Roberson, Terry Pierce, Veryl Switzer, Steve Grogan, Lynn Dickey, Ryan Young, Jeremetrius Butler, Darnell McDonald, Justin Swift, Kenny McEntyre, Josh Scobey, Nyle Wiren, Ben Leber, Rock Cartwright, Jarrod Cooper, Dyshod Carter.
how can you put lockett ahead of david allen as KR?
That was a tough one. They both had good numbers. I just felt that Allen had some better special teams to work with and A-Lock never really recovered after the Polamalu hit. Bottom line- pretty even in terms of production- I just thought Lockett brought more to the table.
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This is it. After 20 or so minutes of exhaustive research...
Offense
QB- Bishop
RB- Sproles
WR- K. Lockett
WR- Morgan
WR- Mike Smith
TE- Coffman
LT- Brooks
LG- Leckey
C- Neujahr
RG- Jacox
RT- Weiner
Defense
DE- Howard
DT- Colston
DT- Fatafehi
DE- Alexander
LB- Spani
LB- Barta
LB- Simoneau
CB- Newman
CB- Canty
FS- Mendez
SS- Washington
K- Gramatica
P- Snyder
KR- Aaron Lockett
Honorable Mention- Ell Roberson, Terry Pierce, Veryl Switzer, Steve Grogan, Lynn Dickey, Ryan Young, Jeremetrius Butler, Darnell McDonald, Justin Swift, Kenny McEntyre, Josh Scobey, Nyle Wiren, Ben Leber, Rock Cartwright, Jarrod Cooper, Dyshod Carter.
how can you put lockett ahead of david allen as KR?
That was a tough one. They both had good numbers. I just felt that Allen had some better special teams to work with and A-Lock never really recovered after the Polamalu hit. Bottom line- pretty even in terms of production- I just thought Lockett brought more to the table.
it just seems like teams were always more concerned about david allen beating them than they were with lockett. i have no statistical evidence to back me up but im pretty sure teams kicked away from allen more than they did lockett.
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BTW, Roberson is the #1, Bishop is the #2. I know how exciting Bishop was, I was there with most of you, but what most of us tend to forget is how often Bishop ran into busted plays. He threw alot of passes in the dirt and alot of times his runs went nowhere. And he got stuffed in Lincoln baaaad.
Yeah, Roberson never threw any passes in the dirt. :rolleyes: I've had season tickets since 1995 so I had the chance to see both of them in person. Bishop was one of the most physically gifted QB's you will ever see. The guy could throw it accurately off his back foot about 70 yards. He could juke you on the run, or he could bulldoze you and keep on going. He had it all. Roberson was good, but he was certainly no Michael Bishop. Also, I can't believe Darnell McDonald hasn't made this list. He had some of the hugest games ever for us.
Cireksu, how can you say Roberson is better if you never saw Bishop play? This baffles me.
Bishop was a harder thrower. Roberson could be more accurate. Bishop was a harder runner. Roberson was more sneaky. Bishop got into a bad streak easier and melted down harder. Roberson could've taken that 1998 team to the title game.
Don't get me wrong, I thought Bishop was amazing seeing him in person, but I believe numbers and results will back me up in saying Roberson was better. I think the novelty of being ranked #1 in 1998 and being on top like that for the first time as KSU fans is the source of the good feelings we remember. By Roberson's time we were getting anxious that 1998 would never happen again, and we were a bit more jaded in 2003.
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bishop WAS our offense in 98.
Seriously, by the end of the year it was just him.
His RB's blew.
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I think it was more that the offense as a whole blew because bishop was so limited in his understanding and what they could call.
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that offense averaged 48.33 points per game.
that, is, insane.
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i still cant believe that there are people saying roberson was better than bishop. roberson lost 3 games in 1 season with a crappy big 12 north. bishop lost 3 games in 2 years with a MUCH better big 12 north. roberson never got us even close to a national championship. bishop's only fault is that he choked away the biggest game of his career. roberson choked away games that didnt matter as much.
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I think it was more that the offense as a whole blew because bishop was so limited in his understanding and what they could call.
that offense averaged 48.33 points per game.
that, is, insane.
Fatty just killed Cire.
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I think it was more that the offense as a whole blew because bishop was so limited in his understanding and what they could call.
that offense averaged 48.33 points per game.
that, is, insane.
Fatty just killed Cire.
Schedule was terrible. Terrraaaabbbblllleee.
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Don't get me wrong, I thought Bishop was amazing seeing him in person, but I believe numbers and results will back me up in saying Roberson was better. I think the novelty of being ranked #1 in 1998 and being on top like that for the first time as KSU fans is the source of the good feelings we remember. By Roberson's time we were getting anxious that 1998 would never happen again, and we were a bit more jaded in 2003.
Agreed 100% except for your whole post. Bishop was 10 times the player Roberson was and I refuse to believe you saw Bishop in person if you still think Ell was better. Unless you did, in which case it is 420 so I will give you a break this one time.
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I think it was more that the offense as a whole blew because bishop was so limited in his understanding and what they could call.
that offense averaged 48.33 points per game.
that, is, insane.
Fatty just killed Cire.
Schedule was terrible. Terrraaaabbbblllleee.
43 ppg in big 12 play.
Lowest PPG outing = 16 pts @#14 CU
2nd lowest PPG outing = 31 pts @MU
Holy &@#%.
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Lowest output 03 20 pts. twice, Marshall (W/O roberson) and @ texas. don't hold the point output of the 03 team against them bc of the shoddy run defense.
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43 ppg in big 12 play.
Lowest PPG outing = 16 pts @#14 CU
2nd lowest PPG outing = 31 pts @MU
Holy *&^^.
Fantastic. What do you think the score would be '98 vs. '03?
EDIT: It would be 41-24 for those keeping score. Who won?
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Lowest output 03 20 pts. twice, Marshall (W/O roberson) and @ texas. don't hold the point output of the 03 team against them bc of the shoddy run defense.
it was a great offense. you said the 1998 offense "blew"
That is the point of my last couple of posts, to show how retarded those statements were.
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my statement about the 98 offense was in reference to numerous people stating that Bishop was the whole team in 98, which IMO meant that he didn't know the offense and did more than was designed. Hence the fumble in the biggest game in KSU fb history. And the Schedule was horrible in 98 and kept us borderline on the CCG despite the "dominance".
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my statement about the 98 offense was in reference to numerous people stating that Bishop was the whole team in 98, which IMO meant that he didn't know the offense and did more than was designed. Hence the fumble in the biggest game in KSU fb history. And the Schedule was horrible in 98 and kept us borderline on the CCG despite the "dominance".
The 1998 big 12 schedule was just as/if not more difficult than the 2003 slate.
Roberson had terrible turnovers as well. He also never took us to the biggest game in KSU fb history. Michael Bishop did. Texas A&M gave up 15 ppg during the 1998 season. THAT WAS A REALLY GOOD DEFENSE.
this made zero sense
my statement about the 98 offense was in reference to numerous people stating that Bishop was the whole team in 98, which IMO meant that he didn't know the offense and did more than was designed.
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my statement about the 98 offense was in reference to numerous people stating that Bishop was the whole team in 98, which IMO meant that he didn't know the offense and did more than was designed. Hence the fumble in the biggest game in KSU fb history. And the Schedule was horrible in 98 and kept us borderline on the CCG despite the "dominance".
it could have also had to do with the fact that there were 2 other undefeated teams at the time.
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my statement about the 98 offense was in reference to numerous people stating that Bishop was the whole team in 98, which IMO meant that he didn't know the offense and did more than was designed. Hence the fumble in the biggest game in KSU fb history. And the Schedule was horrible in 98 and kept us borderline on the CCG despite the "dominance".
Luckily, the '98 team avoided Marshall at home.
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wait, this dude never even saw MB play?
&@#% this.
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Big 12 CCG
Roberson 1
Bisop 0
never saw him in person.
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Big 12 CCG
Roberson 1
Bisop 0
never saw him in person.
thats not true. bishop was there too. roberson just won.
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Good stuff.
Big 12 CCG
Paul Thompson 1
Nate Hybl 1
Ell Roberson 1
:rolleyes:
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Big 12 CCG>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any thing from 98
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does anyone else get the impression that cire is still only 16 years old?
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God, I hope we eventually have the: bishop v. freeman conversation. Probably won't happen but we can always hope :love:
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does anyone else get the impression that cire is still only 16 years old?
Awesome. I'd kill to be 16 again.
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I think it was more that the offense as a whole blew because bishop was so limited in his understanding and what they could call.
I want to kill you with my bare hands.
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Big 12 CCG>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any thing from 98
I can't even begin to unpack the stupidity of this.
1. You realize that we were for all intents and purposes "penciled in" to the Nat'l Championship game? We had to get out of the fourth quarter and we were there. It didn't happen. We melted down. It had next to nothing to do with Bishop. He carried us all season. We were ranked number 1 in the nation. We didn't lose to Marshall at home, I could go on. There was never a point during the '98 season until the unthinkable happened where we were not absolutely sure we were going to win the game. 2003? Not so much.
2. ROBERSON HAD DARREN SPROLES IN HIS BACKFIELD. CONSIDER. PONDER. READ MY POST FROM EARLIER. PONDER. BLOW YOUR &@#%ING HEAD OFF BECAUSE IT CLEARLY IS JUST FOR DECORATION.
3. We "achieved" more in 2003, but if that is all you want to hang your hat on as a fan then you have no soul. In 98 we went for it. We went big. We fell just short, but there is no way that any K-State fan who was there in '98 could rank 2003 ahead of it. No way. I feel like a grandpa here (I am 21) but you have no idea what you are talking about. No. Idea. At. All. :curse: :yuck: