KSUFans Archives
Sports => Frank Martin's OOD sponsored by the "Angriest Fans in America" => Topic started by: michigancat on April 06, 2007, 11:06:33 AM
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That's what I'm thinking.
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I think we can agree on that. It really wouldn't be that bad compared to other guys on our list BUT just the fact that we'd be losing Dalonte makes it undesirable. Anybody w/o Dalonte should = no deal.
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We need both together.
Otherwise we should look elsewhere.
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We need both together.
Otherwise we should look elsewhere.
We are so screwed...
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No Hill. No Beasley or Sutton. That simple.
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If Dalonte doesn't come with FM (which I think he would if he got a good amount of cash) then I don't want Martin. We can go get less of a risk hire if we are going to kiss our recruiting class goodbye.
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Martin with Dalonte appears to be our best shot at not having back-to-back 0-16 seasons in the Big XII.
Dalonte with someone else appears to be our second-best shot.
No Dalonte = 0-32 Big XII record over the next two years.
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I'm on board with this idea. One thing I'm not sure I buy: Martin is not a "short term" or quick fix. Is it my purple drink :koolaid:, or does he exhibit serious potential as a great lead man? He's not just a Huggy prop guy as many would like to say. I say give him 2 to 3 years to show his stuff at this level. My opinion: He did a lot of coaching while Huggy was glaring/cussing/yelling/whining at the refs. Maybe he only has HC experience at the HS level....He would not be the 1st to go bigtime at the next level.
Bottom line: Nearly everything in life goes differently than conventional wisdom and widespread expectation. Frank Martin as a "quick fix" is that kind of statement.
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Yes. The relevant question is, "How much are the Scumbag, Tim Floyd, and others who'd like to have the #1 class in the nation willing to pay Hill?" Well, that along with, "Is KSU willing and able to pay him more?"
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I think Dolonte Hill should be retained regardless of the head coach. Without him, we are talking about a complete overhaul. In that case, we are just hoping for a lucky Snyder type hire.
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Yes. The relevant question is, "How much are the Scumbag, Tim Floyd, and others who'd like to have the #1 class in the nation willing to pay Hill?" Well, that along with, "Is KSU willing and able to pay him more?"
Hire Frank and I think Dalonte stays. Moving again would really suck and I doubt it is something he probably wants to do right now. I'm pretty sure he likes Manhattan and KSU and he has a big chance at coaching a really good team next year if he sticks here. We just need to hurry up and hire the two of them and make the buyout on Dalonte absolutely HUGE.
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I think Dalonte stays, I'm sure Beas doesn't want the hoopla surrounding more recruiting. Likely he'll only be here a year anyway.
I seriously don't get all the Martin hate, I'm telling you it's lose/lose this year and he has the most upside.
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Hire Frank and I think Dalonte stays.
Not good enough. A week ago we though Huggins was staying and it wasn't even the money that made him leave. Assistant coaches make little in comparison to head coaches so it would be relatively easy for Huggins or someone else to double whatever we're offering Hill. Nail his ass down to the point that it's nearly a financial impossibility for anyone else to hire him.
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The way I see it there are two ways to keep most of our current recruits, and hiring Frank Martin by himself is not one of them. One way is to promote FM to HC under the condition that DH stays as an assistant. If DH is gone the only other way to perhaps keep some guys here is to make the "home run" hire, as Rusty says. Hire a big name and hope he can talk Beasley, Walker, etc, to stick around despite the turnover. However I will say that if DH goes, I'm pretty sure we'd have to hire Phil Jackson to keep Beasley. He was committed to Charlotte :confused: for that guy.
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if hill doesnt stay it is the death of our basketball program. hope everyone is excited to go to women's nit games again.
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Our program is dead no matter what, but retaining Hill would postpone the actual time of death to April 2008 rather than now.
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We need to be smart and overpay both men this year. Don't haggle. Don't test the waters and see how much you can get them for. Pile money on their doorsteps and pray. :billypopcorn:
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(http://www.themillionaireconference.com/images/money-pile.jpg)
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Yes. That's the only way I want Frank Martin. They might as well be co-head coaches.
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could we hire the two as assistants or somewhere else in the program and get a HC like Steve Henson who would love to be here and would stay here?
just putting it out there
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Frank Martin and Delonte Hill have to be a "package deal". Otherwise you move on.
If they can come in and get some success early, then they might be able to build off of it. Learning on the job as a HC in the Big 12 would be much easier with Walker and Beasley. We'll seel.
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Martin + Hill + Myscoach + Beas + Sutton + Walker + Pullen + Brown + Mysjuco > anything we have any chance of getting at this stage of the game. Long term we may suck but it is better than short term sucking along with long term sucking.
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It's obvious that most of you think that Hill is the main recruiter you need to keep. Why would you not go after a guy like Fox or Lowery along with offering Hill a substantial raise to stay on the staff with a new coach. I guarantee that a new coach is going to want to have Michael Beasley on his team and would be fine with that arrangement.
Frank Martin just seems like a huge risk as a head coach without at least seeing if you can get a more proven commodity.
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It's obvious that most of you think that Hill is the main recruiter you need to keep. Why would you not go after a guy like Fox or Lowery along with offering Hill a substantial raise to stay on the staff with a new coach. I guarantee that a new coach is going to want to have Michael Beasley on his team and would be fine with that arrangement.
Frank Martin just seems like a huge risk as a head coach without at least seeing if you can get a more proven commodity.
That would be ideal but I don't see DH staying unless we hire FM.
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It's obvious that most of you think that Hill is the main recruiter you need to keep. Why would you not go after a guy like Fox or Lowery along with offering Hill a substantial raise to stay on the staff with a new coach. I guarantee that a new coach is going to want to have Michael Beasley on his team and would be fine with that arrangement.
I don't think he's work for someone with less "star power" than Huggins at KSU (besides Martin, of course).
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It's obvious that most of you think that Hill is the main recruiter you need to keep. Why would you not go after a guy like Fox or Lowery along with offering Hill a substantial raise to stay on the staff with a new coach. I guarantee that a new coach is going to want to have Michael Beasley on his team and would be fine with that arrangement.
Frank Martin just seems like a huge risk as a head coach without at least seeing if you can get a more proven commodity.
I'm all for hiring Hill as the number 1 assisstant right now and having him help in the interview for HC process...LOCK THAT GUY UP!
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I think we've got to realize Hill and Martin are connected. Hill will only work for Martin b/c he knows him now and they know K-State now. And Martin is only going to be an assistant for one man.
The only way Martin and Hill are possibilities is Martin as HC and Hill as an assistant. Any other hopes are pipe dreams.
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It's obvious that most of you think that Hill is the main recruiter you need to keep. Why would you not go after a guy like Fox or Lowery along with offering Hill a substantial raise to stay on the staff with a new coach. I guarantee that a new coach is going to want to have Michael Beasley on his team and would be fine with that arrangement.
Frank Martin just seems like a huge risk as a head coach without at least seeing if you can get a more proven commodity.
That would be ideal but I don't see DH staying unless we hire FM.
Hasn't Hill only worked with Frank Martin for only 1 season? Why do you think Hill would stay for Martin, but not for a guy that is more proven? Especially if you offer him more money to stay than other people will offer him.
Seriously, unless you guys let Beasley out of his LOI, he is stuck. Hill's best opportunity right now is to take a raise, stay at KSU, and coach Beasley for a year no matter who the head coach is.
As a Kansas fan, it isn't good for the Big 12 to go completely down the crapper. I'll be honest, I would just assume that ISU and Nebraska get good and KSU and MU can continue to suck, but that doesn't appear to be a likely scenario at least in the short term. I think a hire of Frank Martin would be a panic move by your AD and it really isn't looking towards the long term success. I think you guys at least need to go out and do a real search. If they interview some cadidates and still go with Frank Martin, then whatever. But Weiser wouldn't be doing his job if he hires a guy whose only head coaching experience is high school if he hires Martin without at least exploring his possibilities.
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I think we've got to realize Hill and Martin are connected. Hill will only work for Martin b/c he knows him now and they know K-State now. And Martin is only going to be an assistant for one man.
The only way Martin and Hill are possibilities is Martin as HC and Hill as an assistant. Any other hopes are pipe dreams.
I don't see it that way. To be honest I bet these two view each others as competitors at this point moreso than colleagues.
Why would either one of them stay here if not given the job they want?
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I think we've got to realize Hill and Martin are connected. Hill will only work for Martin b/c he knows him now and they know K-State now. And Martin is only going to be an assistant for one man.
The only way Martin and Hill are possibilities is Martin as HC and Hill as an assistant. Any other hopes are pipe dreams.
I don't see it that way. To be honest I bet these two view each others as competitors at this point moreso than colleagues.
Why would either one of them stay here if not given the job they want?
Um, they could coach two lottery picks?
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It's obvious that most of you think that Hill is the main recruiter you need to keep. Why would you not go after a guy like Fox or Lowery along with offering Hill a substantial raise to stay on the staff with a new coach. I guarantee that a new coach is going to want to have Michael Beasley on his team and would be fine with that arrangement.
Frank Martin just seems like a huge risk as a head coach without at least seeing if you can get a more proven commodity.
That would be ideal but I don't see DH staying unless we hire FM.
Hasn't Hill only worked with Frank Martin for only 1 season? Why do you think Hill would stay for Martin, but not for a guy that is more proven? Especially if you offer him more money to stay than other people will offer him.
Seriously, unless you guys let Beasley out of his LOI, he is stuck. Hill's best opportunity right now is to take a raise, stay at KSU, and coach Beasley for a year no matter who the head coach is.
As a Kansas fan, it isn't good for the Big 12 to go completely down the crapper. I'll be honest, I would just assume that ISU and Nebraska get good and KSU and MU can continue to suck, but that doesn't appear to be a likely scenario at least in the short term. I think a hire of Frank Martin would be a panic move by your AD and it really isn't looking towards the long term success. I think you guys at least need to go out and do a real search. If they interview some cadidates and still go with Frank Martin, then whatever. But Weiser wouldn't be doing his job if he hires a guy whose only head coaching experience is high school if he hires Martin without at least exploring his possibilities.
I agree with some of your sentiment. Weiser's not an idiot that he'll just hire Martin/Hill tomorrow and be done with it without considering other options. The issue is continuing to build success. Martin and Hill will probably wait like all people and give the process a chance. If KSU feels they aren't in the running, then they'll tell them and let them move on, but those two understand the process has to first get started.
All that means is that Beasley will have to wait as well. I'm sure he's smart enough to figure it out, and his mother will tell him that he can wait. He's got time to figure it out. I'm sure she's trying to understand what has just happened. The bottom line is, it's very early to make a decision, and that's what's going to drive K-Stater's crazy. The recruits have time as well, so it's not like they have to know today what the decision is going to be.
On the other hand, it makes sense to realize what's at stake. A quick hire means really, nothing, as K-State could say, "We'll give these guys a couple of years, structure a system to where it doesn't work out, shake hands and leave" but at least we'll have our class in tact and that shows that K-State is committed to the student athletes. Releasing them early just because the coach leaves sounds like a great idea, but it really isn't. It means that K-State doesn't want you because you're associated with another coach. Maybe the player doesn't like what happened either. K-State believes, as we should, the players should consider KSU as their best viable education option. That's not to say they'll stay for the entire four years, but they might in the right conditions. As of now, I would expect Beasley NOT to stay and bolt as soon as he's done his first year. Same with Walker, but on the other hand, the right coach might make them stay and be a better situation.
So this process is going forward. I don't expect a decision for at least a couple of weeks. I'm sure Weiser will give Martin and Hill opportunities to present their plan for KSU and if Weiser and Wefald buy into it, then they'll be our coach. I'm sure Weiser will tell them he also wants to check out other opportunities. They understand this. I'm sure they would love to get a decision quickly so they can continue working. As of now, they're still at KSU and we haven't dismissed them, so they are working for us.
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peas and carrots, abbot and costello, bold and daring (nah), martin and hill sounds better. I like martin a lot, and the recruiting skills that each have are mad in nature. Question- which one was the "senior" coach under the Anti-Christ currently known as Huggins?
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MJ the problem with that thinking is that you've probably got until tomorrow afternoon to decide whether you want to try to keep Martin, Hill and the nation's #1 recruiting class. Most if not all of them will be on a plane to Morgantown before Monday. The Scumbag isn't going to let any grass grow under his feet so it's a lock that KSU doesn't have two weeks to string these guys along while exploring the options. Martin and Hill have ALL of the leverage in this situation.
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MJ the problem with that thinking is that you've probably got until tomorrow afternoon to decide whether you want to try to keep Martin, Hill and the nation's #1 recruiting class. Most if not all of them will be on a plane to Morgantown before Monday. The Scumbag isn't going to let any grass grow under his feet so it's a lock that KSU doesn't have two weeks to string these guys along while exploring the options. Martin and Hill have ALL of the leverage in this situation.
Maybe, but I think they're smart enough to realize that if they have an opportunity to get this team, they can wait. Huggins can wait too, he's in no hurry right now either. Time is on his side. He didn't exactly hire new assistants on day 2 when he got here.
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Hill could wait because he'll be taking Sutton & Beasley with him wherever he goes. Martin will have less options so he'll likely be on the first plane out. Whether Hill would stick around to be the proverbial bridesmaid to some schmuck he's never even met is another question entirely. Personally I think he'd squeeze WVU hard for a fat paycheck and choose the devil he knows. Hence Martin's timeline is likely KSU's timeline and it's going to be a very short one.