Thoughts on the Marshall Game

[mjrod]

Josh Heupel has already been mentioned.

Game 1:

http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&SPID=190&SPORT_TAB_SEL=03&DB_OEM_ID=300&SPSID=2469&ATCLID=11629

Game 2:

http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&SPID=190&SPORT_TAB_SEL=03&DB_OEM_ID=300&SPSID=2469&ATCLID=11673

Game 3:

http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&SPID=190&SPORT_TAB_SEL=03&DB_OEM_ID=300&SPSID=2469&ATCLID=11655

He didn't win a championship that year.  Far from it.  Of course, he was in Mike Leach's offense too.

[Fausto]

"Name a QB that came into a system in his first year, mastered it by game 3 and was lighting up the field."

Michael Bishop.

September 27, 1997   Kansas State 58 Bowling Green O

Of course, he was surrounded by Eric Hickson, Mike Lawrence, Darnell McDonald and an experienced O-Line (Weiner, Jacox, Young-all still in the NFL).  

Defense wasn't bad either.  Howard, Simoneau, Ochs, Kelly, Chapman etc.

It should be noted the game before that (Ohio) was essentially an Illinois State like escape, and the game after that a horrible loss to Nebraska.

[catzacker]

I really enjoy all the excuses people give for Meier.  The guy is a marginal Big 12 QB.  His arm is marginal and all that's missing from his release is a crow-hop.  He's not throwin the ball at a receiver's feet or throwing it to the other team (a Meier family tradition it seems) because he's not comfortable in the sytem, he's doing these things because he's a marginal QB.  Which is fine as I didn't expect anything more out of him and if the defense continues to play at the level it plays, we should stay in a lot of ball games.  

[mjrod]

I really enjoy all the excuses people give for Meier.  The guy is a marginal Big 12 QB.  His arm is marginal and all that's missing from his release is a crow-hop.  He's not throwin the ball at a receiver's feet or throwing it to the other team (a Meier family tradition it seems) because he's not comfortable in the sytem, he's doing these things because he's a marginal QB.  Which is fine as I didn't expect anything more out of him and if the defense continues to play at the level it plays, we should stay in a lot of ball games. 

I don't think anyone is making excuses for Meier.  I think people are just too presumptuous that he's not the type of QB we need in our system when you consider.. he's 3-0 right now as the starter.  Yes, it's been ugly, but again, this is a team game.

[michigancat]

Josh Heupel has already been mentioned.

Game 1:

http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&SPID=190&SPORT_TAB_SEL=03&DB_OEM_ID=300&SPSID=2469&ATCLID=11629

Game 2:

http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&SPID=190&SPORT_TAB_SEL=03&DB_OEM_ID=300&SPSID=2469&ATCLID=11673

Game 3:

http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&SPID=190&SPORT_TAB_SEL=03&DB_OEM_ID=300&SPSID=2469&ATCLID=11655

He didn't win a championship that year.  Far from it.  Of course, he was in Mike Leach's offense too.

You said:

Name a QB that came into a system in his first year, mastered it by game 3 and was lighting up the field.

Nothing about championships.  He did turn around a program that hadn't been to a bowl in five years. 

Should Heupel lighting it up not count because it was under Leach's system?

LMK.

I could also name plenty of true freshmen that had awesome first seasons, such as Chad Henne and Phillip Rivers.

[mjrod]

Josh Heupel has already been mentioned.

Game 1:

http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&SPID=190&SPORT_TAB_SEL=03&DB_OEM_ID=300&SPSID=2469&ATCLID=11629

Game 2:

http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&SPID=190&SPORT_TAB_SEL=03&DB_OEM_ID=300&SPSID=2469&ATCLID=11673

Game 3:

http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&SPID=190&SPORT_TAB_SEL=03&DB_OEM_ID=300&SPSID=2469&ATCLID=11655

He didn't win a championship that year.  Far from it.  Of course, he was in Mike Leach's offense too.

You said:

Name a QB that came into a system in his first year, mastered it by game 3 and was lighting up the field.

Nothing about championships.  He did turn around a program that hadn't been to a bowl in five years. 

Should Heupel lighting it up not count because it was under Leach's system?

LMK.

I could also name plenty of true freshmen that had awesome first seasons, such as Chad Henne and Phillip Rivers.

No, Stoops turned that program around, and it was stocked with talent.  Heuppel was brought in from Snow College to go with Leach's system to get it turned around.

The names you mentioned all had GREAT supporting casts in players and talent and coaching to get them going.   There is a lot more to it than just assuming the QB can make the program great.   It's a team game.   Heuppel was put in a system that he was familiary with.  Meier is learning a new one.  We go back to that recruiting thing about getting kids to fit your system.

[michigancat]

Kingsbury?

[mjrod]

Kingsbury?

Who's that?

[michigancat]

Kliff.

Game 2:  450 yards

http://texastech.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/090200aab.html

[mjrod]

So it's about yardage now?

I'm not following you here. 

[michigancat]

So it's about yardage now?

I'm not following you here. 

Did Kingsbury not "light it up"?

You challenged someone to name qb's that lit it up in a new system by game 3...Kliff fits the bill.

[Fausto]

Kingsbury?

Wow.  He had *mastered* the system so much in the next two games he threw 2 TD passes and 5 interceptions.  Game #3 TT beat North Texas by a mere Touchdown.

Game #3 Box score

http://members.door.net/nbclumber/2000-NCAA/2000FB-History/Game-03-box.htm

Clearly, that's *lighting it up*

[michigancat]

Also, I don't think Dylan would look good in any system right now.

[mjrod]

So it's about yardage now?

I'm not following you here. 

Did Kingsbury not "light it up"?

You challenged someone to name qb's that lit it up in a new system by game 3...Kliff fits the bill.

OK, so he lit it up by the third game.   How many more?  You got a lot of work to do.

[mjrod]

Also, I don't think Dylan would look good in any system right now.

There's no way to know unless he played in them.

The point still stands.  He is trying to learn a new system.   Of all the QB's you've mentioned (very few I might add) none of them mastered their system in the first year to be so successful other than maybe going to a bowl game.   At this point, there is nothing to suggest that Dylan couldn't get us there either.

[michigancat]

So it's about yardage now?

I'm not following you here. 

Did Kingsbury not "light it up"?

You challenged someone to name qb's that lit it up in a new system by game 3...Kliff fits the bill.

OK, so he lit it up by the third game.   How many more?  You got a lot of work to do.

WTF? More QB's to name?

Also, I don't think Dylan would look good in any system right now.

There's no way to know unless he played in them.

The point still stands.  He is trying to learn a new system.   Of all the QB's you've mentioned (very few I might add) none of them mastered their system in the first year to be so successful other than maybe going to a bowl game.   At this point, there is nothing to suggest that Dylan couldn't get us there either.

Going to a bowl game would be incredibly successful for this team, and Dylan.   I just believe there is more to suggest he won't get us to a bowl game.  I realize there's a new system, but I don't think he would be running Bill's offense any better.

[Dan Rydell]

If it takes at least a year to get comfortable with the system, then why are we training a senior who's going to be gone next year, instead of starting the guy who's going to be back?  Next year we just get to go through this all over again with Freeman?

[mjrod]

If it takes at least a year to get comfortable with the system, then why are we training a senior who's going to be gone next year, instead of starting the guy who's going to be back?  Next year we just get to go through this all over again with Freeman?

Not sure.  I wonder that myself.

[Fausto]

"I could also name plenty of true freshmen that had awesome first seasons, such as Chad Henne and Phillip Rivers."

Chad Henne, mastering the offense by the 3rd game of his first season...11-24 2 TDs and 3 INTs vs. San Diego State

Rivers there might be a better case for.

[mjrod]

Going to a bowl game would be incredibly successful for this team, and Dylan.   I just believe there is more to suggest he won't get us to a bowl game.  I realize there's a new system, but I don't think he would be running Bill's offense any better.

I think you're just being a negative nelly.    No way you can offer anything to suggest that Meier couldn't get us to a bowl game.

[AzCat]

Colt McCoy - 38/59 6TD 1INT with a QB rating of 159.5. 

Fact is that a QB will show his true colors pretty quickly.  The biggest adjustment coming into the college game is the speed of the opposing teams and as the examples above show, lots of frosh not only adjust to that but also pick up their new systems and don't traverse a years-long learning curve to reach top form.  Meier's a mediocre (at best) QB with a weak arm who often makes questionable decisions.  He isn't that good, he's never been that good, and he'll never be that good. 

[mjrod]

Colt McCoy - 38/59 6TD 1INT with a QB rating of 159.5. 

Fact is that a QB will show his true colors pretty quickly.  The biggest adjustment coming into the college game is the speed of the opposing teams and as the examples above show, lots of frosh not only adjust to that but also pick up their new systems and don't traverse a years-long learning curve to reach top form.  Meier's a mediocre (at best) QB with a weak arm who often makes questionable decisions.  He isn't that good, he's never been that good, and he'll never be that good. 

With all those people he has with a supporting cast, and playing RICE of all teams.

Good one.  He didn't do so well against OSU.

[AzCat]

I think you're just being a negative nelly.    No way you can offer anything to suggest that Meier couldn't get us to a bowl game.

Meier will show us that himself next weekend.  

[AzCat]

Meier's not a freshman MJ and he had a piss poor game against a I-AA team.  McCoy had a poor game ... against the #1 team in the nation while starting his 2nd game as a freshman.  See any relevant differences there?

[michigancat]

"I could also name plenty of true freshmen that had awesome first seasons, such as Chad Henne and Phillip Rivers."

Chad Henne, mastering the offense by the 3rd game of his first season...11-24 2 TDs and 3 INTs vs. San Diego State

Rivers there might be a better case for.

He went 25-40 for 240 @Notre Dame the previous week.

[Fausto]

"Colt McCoy - 38/59 6TD 1INT with a QB rating of 159.5."

Colt had a year under his belt as a redshirt. 

[AzCat]

And how many years does Meier have under his belt? 

[Fausto]

In this system (you KNOW the answer to this question!) less than a year.  3 total games.

[mjrod]

Meier's not a freshman MJ and he had a piss poor game against a I-AA team.  McCoy had a poor game ... against the #1 team in the nation while starting his 2nd game as a freshman.  See any relevant differences there?

Meier is in the first year of a new system, one that is different than the one he was in.

The biggest difference is the supporting cast.  I agree that Meier is a not the best QB, but do you think Colt would do well in one system and then go into another system and just get it by the second or third game?


I'm not disputing Meier is not a great QB.  What I'm disputing is the idea that he is incapable of leading us to a bowl game, or that he doesn't have the talent to do so.

The evidence is supported by the fact that relevance is clearly in the supporting cast unit and how it works.  Also note, Dylan is not responsible for the RUN game, which is an essential part of the system.  Also note, that Dylan was recruited into an option QB system.

[AzCat]

Reading defenses is reading defenses, hitting receivers is hitting receivers.  He's allegedly a bright kid, he shouldn't be having this much trouble being effective against inferior competition unless he just flat out sucks as a quarterback.  Don't get me wrong, I think he'd be a fine starting QB ... for Pitt State, Fort Hays or the like, but in the Big XII?  Give me a break.