Author Topic: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread  (Read 46671 times)

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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #375 on: October 23, 2017, 11:15:26 AM »
I have to be careful going back to watch, because now I'm ticked at that protection. That's easy to protect if guys communicate and know the situation. If you tell me you have Zuber (who I think is our best WR right now) 1 on 1 with no safety help and Delton throwing with the wind at his back, I take that shot every single time. Sucks that we couldn't provide basic protection for what should be a pretty safe shot down the field.

Offline Cire

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #376 on: October 23, 2017, 11:19:30 AM »
Zuber's route sucked too.  Not much of a "double" move, or pump fake by delton.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #377 on: October 23, 2017, 11:24:02 AM »
Zuber's route sucked too.  Not much of a "double" move, or pump fake by delton.

That's fair, but it wasn't atypical. It wasn't Lockett-esque by any means, but I don't think it was poor either. It was just pretty good discipline by the OU CB not to get his eyes in the backfield.

Offline SkinnyBenny

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #378 on: October 23, 2017, 11:34:02 AM »
I understand this, but I knew if we got a first down we would take a shot and I thought that we should. We got man coverage with no safety help, so a throw made sense, but there was an overestimation of Delton's ability to make the throw or make the right decision. The pass floated (Delton did get late pressure) and the Zuber wasn't able to make a play on the ball. It honestly was just a really bad throw. IIRC, the wind had already shifted to out of the north, so Delton had the wind at his back. If it works everyone thinks Dimel is a genius.


Absolutely. But....it didn't. In fact it backfired in spectacular fashion. I think in general the whole "yeah but if it worked you'd all be calling him a genius" thing is kinda missing the forest for the trees. If an OC dials up a play that ultimately works, then that OC is successful and has succeeded at his job. But if an OC dials up a play that could hypothetically work in a vacuum but that doesn't account for our offense's various weaknesses, and that play backfires badly, then it was indeed an awful call. Proof is in the pudding.

I mean, even _fan's expert post provided an alternative that would probably have been better:

Quote
To be fair, I think the pass should have been off of play action and a route that allowed for an easier (and safer) read and throw, but I had zero problem with a 1st down pass there.


Now that's not to say OCs have to be perfect on every single play to be successful, I'm just saying that I find it laughable for instance when  commentators go, "Yeah sure they lost the game on a stopped 2-point conversion when they could've kicked the PAT to go to overtime, but if they'd MADE the 2-point conversion, you'd all call him a genius!" Because it's like........yeah. No kidding. The success or failure of specific coaching decisions does indeed factor into whether they are good at their jobs or bad at their jobs.
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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #379 on: October 23, 2017, 11:42:33 AM »
That perspective makes sense.

I guess I would add the qualifier that there are definitely some play calls that stand no chance because they don't fit the a) situation, b) player's abilities, or c) the defense you are facing. I get that the answer of "if the players just execute, it should work" can be a cop out and I probably lean that direction more than I should. However, this is a situation where I can't fault any of those because IMO the main problem features a major protection error that gave the play no chance to succeed.

Offline kslim

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #380 on: October 23, 2017, 11:52:38 AM »
This has most likely been mentioned but needs to be rehashed.

We are up 21-7, with possession, four minutes or so remaining before half. We run for a first down. With the success we were having running the ball and our coach's strategy of owning the TOP, especially against a superior opponent, you would imagine that we would keep pounding the ball and run the clock.

Nope. Dipshit Dimel dials up a twenty yard out route on first down. Ball is intercepted. Completely inexcusable.
i agree but what’s more inexcusable is not running a play with a timeout and 6 seconds left before half. A simple 2 yard qb sneak would have made the difference in the ball hitting the goal post or being good and even more momentum
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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #381 on: October 23, 2017, 11:54:01 AM »
i agree but what’s more inexcusable is not running a play with a timeout and 6 seconds left before half. A simple 2 yard qb sneak would have made the difference in the ball hitting the goal post or being good and even more momentum

Agree 100% with this, but this staff has never had much ability to manage a clock, which is sad. That was just another terrible example to add to a long list.

Offline cfbandyman

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #382 on: October 23, 2017, 12:44:59 PM »
i agree but what’s more inexcusable is not running a play with a timeout and 6 seconds left before half. A simple 2 yard qb sneak would have made the difference in the ball hitting the goal post or being good and even more momentum

Agree 100% with this, but this staff has never had much ability to manage a clock, which is sad. That was just another terrible example to add to a long list.

I was shocked with did that and then shocked he hit the crossbar.
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Offline cfbandyman

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #383 on: October 23, 2017, 12:46:45 PM »
That perspective makes sense.

I guess I would add the qualifier that there are definitely some play calls that stand no chance because they don't fit the a) situation, b) player's abilities, or c) the defense you are facing. I get that the answer of "if the players just execute, it should work" can be a cop out and I probably lean that direction more than I should. However, this is a situation where I can't fault any of those because IMO the main problem features a major protection error that gave the play no chance to succeed.

Right, IMO the play was as much that as a bad throw by Delton, but not really a bad play, is he leads Zuber correctly we get a giant play and potentially a TD. I never had a problem with the call, just a problem with throwing it 5 yards behind him.
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Offline meow meow

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #384 on: October 23, 2017, 01:38:53 PM »
i liked it better when we'd win almost every game when we were leading at half

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #385 on: October 23, 2017, 01:42:44 PM »
That perspective makes sense.

I guess I would add the qualifier that there are definitely some play calls that stand no chance because they don't fit the a) situation, b) player's abilities, or c) the defense you are facing. I get that the answer of "if the players just execute, it should work" can be a cop out and I probably lean that direction more than I should. However, this is a situation where I can't fault any of those because IMO the main problem features a major protection error that gave the play no chance to succeed.

Right, IMO the play was as much that as a bad throw by Delton, but not really a bad play, is he leads Zuber correctly we get a giant play and potentially a TD. I never had a problem with the call, just a problem with throwing it 5 yards behind him.

I'm another thread I broke down the terrible protection we had that led to the bad throw. He had to throw off his back foot because a late blitz got in his face that we should have easily picked up.

Offline cfbandyman

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #386 on: October 23, 2017, 02:09:43 PM »
That perspective makes sense.

I guess I would add the qualifier that there are definitely some play calls that stand no chance because they don't fit the a) situation, b) player's abilities, or c) the defense you are facing. I get that the answer of "if the players just execute, it should work" can be a cop out and I probably lean that direction more than I should. However, this is a situation where I can't fault any of those because IMO the main problem features a major protection error that gave the play no chance to succeed.

Right, IMO the play was as much that as a bad throw by Delton, but not really a bad play, is he leads Zuber correctly we get a giant play and potentially a TD. I never had a problem with the call, just a problem with throwing it 5 yards behind him.

I'm another thread I broke down the terrible protection we had that led to the bad throw. He had to throw off his back foot because a late blitz got in his face that we should have easily picked up.

See that now, also agree. Mostly was agreeing with your assessment it wasn't a bad play call but good to know.
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Offline Mikeyis4dcats

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #387 on: October 23, 2017, 02:10:15 PM »
This has most likely been mentioned but needs to be re-hashed.

We are up 21-7, with possession, four minutes or so remaining before half. We run for a first down. With the success we were having running the ball and our coach's strategy of owning the TOP, especially against a superior opponent, you would imagine that we would keep pounding the ball and run the clock.

Nope. Dipshit Dimel dials up a twenty yard out route on first down. Ball is intercepted. Inexcusable.

I understand this, but I knew if we got a first down we would take a shot and I thought that we should. We got man coverage with no safety help, so a throw made sense, but there was an overestimation of Delton's ability to make the throw or make the right decision. The pass floated (Delton did get late pressure) and the Zuber wasn't able to make a play on the ball. It honestly was just a really bad throw. IIRC, the wind had already shifted to out of the north, so Delton had the wind at his back. If it works everyone thinks Dimel is a genius.

To be fair, I think the pass should have been off of play action and a route that allowed for an easier (and safer) read and throw, but I had zero problem with a 1st down pass there.

https://youtu.be/sqMxEd3meoM?t=5224

Watching this live I think the receiver ran the wrong route for the throw.   Receiver ran a post, and I think Delton thought he was running a corner.

Offline Cire

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #388 on: October 23, 2017, 02:16:48 PM »
This was a pump fake stop and go that we've been running FOREVER.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #389 on: October 23, 2017, 02:20:21 PM »
This was a pump fake stop and go that we've been running FOREVER.

Yep.

Delton just got smashed as he threw it.

I mean, we had token play action, but it wasn't a whole lot different than this (pump fake, double move), except Ell didn't under throw it (even though he threw into safety help).


Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #390 on: October 23, 2017, 03:00:11 PM »
A couple things about my tweet after I saw Barnes lose his crap on the sideline on Saturday.

1. Because twitter is racist and I didn't get the increased characters like scott did, I couldn't add that he had the freak out after he was pulled off of the field, after the punter mishandled the snap. He went on the field on first down, they'll pulled him, he lost it, they put him in and gave him the carry on second down.

2. I'll point it out now that I think it's over and hopefully I'm not snitching but Boom Massie like the tweet, well after the fact. Hopefully these dudes get these pretty obvious issues worked out, it's mad problematic that a d-lineman first found the tweet, then liked it.

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #391 on: October 24, 2017, 04:52:56 PM »
I understand this, but I knew if we got a first down we would take a shot and I thought that we should. We got man coverage with no safety help, so a throw made sense, but there was an overestimation of Delton's ability to make the throw or make the right decision. The pass floated (Delton did get late pressure) and the Zuber wasn't able to make a play on the ball. It honestly was just a really bad throw. IIRC, the wind had already shifted to out of the north, so Delton had the wind at his back. If it works everyone thinks Dimel is a genius.


Absolutely. But....it didn't. In fact it backfired in spectacular fashion. I think in general the whole "yeah but if it worked you'd all be calling him a genius" thing is kinda missing the forest for the trees. If an OC dials up a play that ultimately works, then that OC is successful and has succeeded at his job. But if an OC dials up a play that could hypothetically work in a vacuum but that doesn't account for our offense's various weaknesses, and that play backfires badly, then it was indeed an awful call. Proof is in the pudding.

I mean, even _fan's expert post provided an alternative that would probably have been better:

Quote
To be fair, I think the pass should have been off of play action and a route that allowed for an easier (and safer) read and throw, but I had zero problem with a 1st down pass there.


Now that's not to say OCs have to be perfect on every single play to be successful, I'm just saying that I find it laughable for instance when  commentators go, "Yeah sure they lost the game on a stopped 2-point conversion when they could've kicked the PAT to go to overtime, but if they'd MADE the 2-point conversion, you'd all call him a genius!" Because it's like........yeah. No kidding. The success or failure of specific coaching decisions does indeed factor into whether they are good at their jobs or bad at their jobs.

It's really hard for me to say the offensive coordinator called a bad play when the players fail to execute as badly as they did. I blame the staff as a whole for lack of preparation, but an offensive coordinator should be able to trust the players he recruits and places onto the field to be able to execute a basic play like that.

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #394 on: October 26, 2017, 01:47:33 AM »
BV is clearly the guy to take over. Knows poor play calling when he sees it. Count me in.

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #395 on: October 26, 2017, 07:29:59 AM »
Who will get the playing time now that Tanking has herniated ribs?  Surely there's a 5 heart walk-on waiting in the wings.
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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #396 on: October 28, 2017, 02:44:01 PM »
AAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Offline SdK

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #397 on: October 28, 2017, 02:44:39 PM »

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #398 on: October 28, 2017, 02:45:40 PM »
 :jerk:  playcall was fine, defense made a spectacular play
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

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Offline SkinnyBenny

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Re: Terrible KSU Coaching Decisions Thread
« Reply #399 on: October 28, 2017, 02:45:49 PM »
WE HAD FOURTH AND INCHES ON KU'S 4 YARD-LINE AND WE SET UP WITH DELTON IN SHOTGUN :lol: :lol:  :lol:


This is going to shock you guys, but we ran Delton out naked toward the right pylon and he was tackled short of the first down. Turnover on downs, thanks Dimel.
"walking around mhk and crying in the rain because of love lost is the absolute purest and best thing in the world.  i hope i fall in love during the next few weeks and get my heart broken and it starts raining just to experience it one last time."   --Dlew12