Author Topic: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....  (Read 1031410 times)

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Offline KITNfury

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14000 on: September 21, 2011, 03:41:41 PM »
Jack is a respect.
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Offline Trim

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Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14003 on: September 21, 2011, 03:44:46 PM »
Here is your five year 'commitment'.  I told all of you not to freak out.

Quote
Among the changes: removing of Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe; adopting common rules for individual networks like the Longhorn Network; phasing in revenue sharing from primary television rights; and requiring a commitment of rights of more than five years from conference schools, which would commit all of their game revenues to the Big 12 during that time and make moving to another league difficult to impossible.

Read more: http://newsok.com/source-ou-preferred-reformed-big-12-all-along/article/3606281#ixzz1YccTCQNo

Offline kstater

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14004 on: September 21, 2011, 03:46:52 PM »
Here is your five year 'commitment'.  I told all of you not to freak out.

Quote
Among the changes: removing of Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe; adopting common rules for individual networks like the Longhorn Network; phasing in revenue sharing from primary television rights; and requiring a commitment of rights of more than five years from conference schools, which would commit all of their game revenues to the Big 12 during that time and make moving to another league difficult to impossible.

Read more: http://newsok.com/source-ou-preferred-reformed-big-12-all-along/article/3606281#ixzz1YccTCQNo

:emawkid:

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14005 on: September 21, 2011, 03:48:48 PM »
Quote
The behind-the-scenes lobbying of OU and OSU began gaining traction in recent days. Yet as it did, there was a sense their leverage might be slipping. The OU source said there was a shift in the mood of Pac-12 leaders, largely because Texas was pushing to get special concessions and exemptions for its network.

So, on Tuesday morning, OU and OSU let the Pac-12 know that it wouldn't be applying for membership.

“Really, we kind of hoped that the announcement ... wouldn't come for another day or so,” the OU source said. “Every day we had gave us a little more leverage to talk about these reforms.”

But the Pac-12 issued a statement Tuesday evening saying it had no intentions to expand.

“They put out their statement because they thought ... Texas was going to stiff them again,” the source said.

When conference realignment talk heated up in the summer of 2010, Texas started the conversation with the Pac-12, meeting with the conference for four or five months, approaching OU and Texas A&M and others about heading West.

Then the Longhorns abruptly ended it, according to the OU source, announcing they weren't going to the Pac-12 before they'd even notified the league's leaders.

“They really felt burned,” the source said. “They told us in the future they don't think they're ever really going to want to do business with Texas.

“They're very angry with Texas.”

But ultimately, reforming and stabilizing the Big 12 was the goal for OU and OSU all along.

“We've been playing a bit of poker,” the OU source said. “That hand was a lot stronger (Tuesday) than (Wednesday), but so many things are already agreed to.

“If they'll all keep their word at the meeting (Thursday), we will have some substantial reforms and substantial stability.”

Read more: http://newsok.com/source-ou-preferred-reformed-big-12-all-along/article/3606281#ixzz1YcdZtXYF

Offline ArchE_Cat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14006 on: September 21, 2011, 03:49:06 PM »
BITB schooling Jack Harry on the potential success of Mizzou in the SEC.

Jack Harry says MU could average better than 6th place in a fourteen member SEC over a 20 year period.

 :lol:

have they averaged better than 6th place over their entire Big 12 run with two fewer teams and playing in the weaker division? 

Average finish (overall Big12):
Mizzou - 6.73
KSU - 5.8
KU - 9.06
A&M - 6.06

North Division:
Mizzou: 2.86
KSU: 2.80
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 03:53:14 PM by ArchE_Cat »

Offline kstater

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14007 on: September 21, 2011, 03:53:18 PM »


So, on Tuesday morning, OU and OSU let the Pac-12 know that it wouldn't be applying for membership.


I wonder how hard it was for Scott to stifle his laugh.



Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14009 on: September 21, 2011, 03:58:12 PM »
I can't wait until we can all grab some mugs of hot cocoa, sit next to a warm fire in our pj's, and listen to captaincrap tell us how this all really went down.

 :users: (Except it's cocoa, and I'm actually sitting next to a fire in my pj's.)

Offline catzacker

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14010 on: September 21, 2011, 04:14:08 PM »
Here is your five year 'commitment'.  I told all of you not to freak out.

Quote
Among the changes: removing of Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe; adopting common rules for individual networks like the Longhorn Network; phasing in revenue sharing from primary television rights; and requiring a commitment of rights of more than five years from conference schools, which would commit all of their game revenues to the Big 12 during that time and make moving to another league difficult to impossible.

Read more: http://newsok.com/source-ou-preferred-reformed-big-12-all-along/article/3606281#ixzz1YccTCQNo


that's a good start.  although structuring individual networks doesn't make the league any stronger, relative to other conferences. band-aid.   I’d like to see the rest of the conference move forward with its own network which would require handing over 3rd tier rights, if you didn’t, you don’t get any revenue from it.  I assume the tv rights means that if they left, for 5 years the big 12 conference would retain their rights?

Online MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14011 on: September 21, 2011, 04:23:54 PM »
Here is your five year 'commitment'.  I told all of you not to freak out.

Quote
Among the changes: removing of Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe; adopting common rules for individual networks like the Longhorn Network; phasing in revenue sharing from primary television rights; and requiring a commitment of rights of more than five years from conference schools, which would commit all of their game revenues to the Big 12 during that time and make moving to another league difficult to impossible.

Read more: http://newsok.com/source-ou-preferred-reformed-big-12-all-along/article/3606281#ixzz1YccTCQNo


that's a good start.  although structuring individual networks doesn't make the league any stronger, relative to other conferences. band-aid.   I’d like to see the rest of the conference move forward with its own network which would require handing over 3rd tier rights, if you didn’t, you don’t get any revenue from it.  I assume the tv rights means that if they left, for 5 years the big 12 conference would retain their rights?

You seem to be very much against capitalism.  I hate the conference controlling 3rd tier rights.  If K-State didn't control their own 3rd tier rights I'd be very afraid that the conference wouldn't/couldn't act in the best interest of each team.  I really don't see carriers falling all over themselves for a Big 12 version of the Big Ten Network.

Offline EllToPay

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14012 on: September 21, 2011, 04:27:00 PM »
I can't wait until we can all grab some mugs of hot cocoa, sit next to a warm fire in our pj's, and listen to captaincrap tell us how this all really went down.

 :users: (Except it's cocoa, and I'm actually sitting next to a fire in my pj's.)

 :cheers:  <--- except with cocoa and captain crap

Offline Acceleration Man

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14013 on: September 21, 2011, 04:27:27 PM »
Quote

Read more: http://newsok.com/source-ou-preferred-reformed-big-12-all-along/article/3606281#ixzz1YccTCQNo


 :surprised: I agree with everything OK is trying to do.  :love: Amazing chain of events... just hope that all this drama has TX in a position to make a few concessions without getting unreasonably bent out of shape. Amazing article.

I will say, I was unclear as well whether the five years meant "five years from now" or "five years after you join another conference". Is the second really do-able with network considerations? The former seems weak, especially for long-term stability, but still better than what we have in place now, obviously.

Offline catzacker

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14014 on: September 21, 2011, 04:34:35 PM »
Here is your five year 'commitment'.  I told all of you not to freak out.

Quote
Among the changes: removing of Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe; adopting common rules for individual networks like the Longhorn Network; phasing in revenue sharing from primary television rights; and requiring a commitment of rights of more than five years from conference schools, which would commit all of their game revenues to the Big 12 during that time and make moving to another league difficult to impossible.

Read more: http://newsok.com/source-ou-preferred-reformed-big-12-all-along/article/3606281#ixzz1YccTCQNo


that's a good start.  although structuring individual networks doesn't make the league any stronger, relative to other conferences. band-aid.   I’d like to see the rest of the conference move forward with its own network which would require handing over 3rd tier rights, if you didn’t, you don’t get any revenue from it.  I assume the tv rights means that if they left, for 5 years the big 12 conference would retain their rights?

You seem to be very much against capitalism.  I hate the conference controlling 3rd tier rights.  If K-State didn't control their own 3rd tier rights I'd be very afraid that the conference wouldn't/couldn't act in the best interest of each team.  I really don't see carriers falling all over themselves for a Big 12 version of the Big Ten Network.

I differ on the idea that “market” or “free market” principles should be and/or are present in a competitive arena.  For example, walmart doesn’t need target.  Dillons doesn’t need Hy-vee.  Texas needs OU.  Needs KSU (or fill in some school).  And they need them to be at a certain level.  People realized that when they reduced the scholarship limit.  That spread competition, which drives, ratings (i.e. more talent across more schools = more quality-ish inventory, you can’t just have texas and ou play every weekend).  From a competitive standpoint the remaining conferences (sans Big East) provide a much more attractive environment than the Big 12; the majority of the schools (in any conference) are not able to capitalize on the third tier rights so it provides no incentive to join – unless you are a handful of schools that could – and those schools (i.e. Ohio State, Michigan, Florida, etc.) have chosen to be in models that differ from the Big 12.  I’m not against Texas making money, charging astronomically more for tickets than KSU or requiring larger donations for certain levels, however I am against a model that has proven to be unstable.  Carriers would fall over themselves if Texas was signed up for the big 12 network.  

Offline Acceleration Man

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14015 on: September 21, 2011, 04:36:44 PM »
Also... (sitting here thinking)... all the Okie's are saying their leverage is not as strong since the announcement from the PAC, which I suppose is true, but on the other hand, really what leverage does TX have at this point? Who else in the conference do they have to convince to make these reforms other than TX??

Ironically, it doesn't seem as if TX has much leverage right now either because they've publicly said they favor staying in the BigXII, the PAC bridge seems burned (at least for now), ACC doesn't seem interested (plus kind of a weird move geographically), and they really don't want to be an independent. So a stable Big XII is the best option for TX by quite a large margin, so they basically have to concede everything within that margin, and realize that's the best they're gonna get, amirite?

 :kstategrad:

Offline TheHamburglar

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14016 on: September 21, 2011, 05:16:02 PM »
Also... (sitting here thinking)... all the Okie's are saying their leverage is not as strong since the announcement from the PAC, which I suppose is true, but on the other hand, really what leverage does TX have at this point? Who else in the conference do they have to convince to make these reforms other than TX??

Ironically, it doesn't seem as if TX has much leverage right now either because they've publicly said they favor staying in the BigXII, the PAC bridge seems burned (at least for now), ACC doesn't seem interested (plus kind of a weird move geographically), and they really don't want to be an independent. So a stable Big XII is the best option for TX by quite a large margin, so they basically have to concede everything within that margin, and realize that's the best they're gonna get, amirite?

 :kstategrad:

Texas' leverage is that they can keep doing the exact same thing they are doing now.  They don't need anything to change in order to get what they want.  OU has nowhere to go because they can't go anywhere without OSU, and OSU can't get into the SEC.  There is nothing OU can do to stop the LHN from airing the UT-KU game this year and 3 conference b-ball games.  Is the Big12 going to sue ESPN? No.  What is going to keep Texas from airing high school highlights?  UT's legal stance is that they are allowed to do it, that this was part of the original conception of the LHN when everyone in the Big12 decided to allow school networks.  UT will do want they want until OU leaves or sues.  There is no hard and fast rule in the Big12 that doesn't allow them to do these things, and I'm not sure the Big12 has the legal power to implement them now.  OU already tried to play the "we're leaving" card and lost.  Leverage at this point would be used to change the status-que, OU have very little leverage to change it and UT doesn't want it changed.  This is why we are going to be in this exact same position again down the road. 
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 05:19:26 PM by TheHamburglar »
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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14017 on: September 21, 2011, 05:19:58 PM »
Also... (sitting here thinking)... all the Okie's are saying their leverage is not as strong since the announcement from the PAC, which I suppose is true, but on the other hand, really what leverage does TX have at this point? Who else in the conference do they have to convince to make these reforms other than TX??

Ironically, it doesn't seem as if TX has much leverage right now either because they've publicly said they favor staying in the BigXII, the PAC bridge seems burned (at least for now), ACC doesn't seem interested (plus kind of a weird move geographically), and they really don't want to be an independent. So a stable Big XII is the best option for TX by quite a large margin, so they basically have to concede everything within that margin, and realize that's the best they're gonna get, amirite?

 :kstategrad:

Texas' leverage is that they can keep doing the exact same thing they are doing now.  They don't need anything to change in order to get what they want.  OU has nowhere to go because they can't go anywhere without OSU, and OSU can't get into the SEC.  There is nothing OU can do to stop the LHN from airing the UT-KU game this year and 3 conference b-ball games.  Is the Big12 going to sue ESPN? No.  What is going to keep Texas from airing high school highlights?  UT's legal stance is that they are allowed to do it, that this was part of the original conception of the LHN when everyone in the Big12 decided to allow school networks.  UT will do want they want until OU leaves or sues.  There is no hard and fast rule in the Big12 that doesn't allow them to do these things, and I'm not sure the Big12 has the legal power to implement them now. 

If OU is serious, a simple vote among the schools could give them all of their demands. It doesn't take a unanimous vote to change revenue distribution or other conference rules. Texas will either have to deal with the results or leave.

Offline SkinnyBenny

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14018 on: September 21, 2011, 05:20:08 PM »
crap, I mean it is ridiculous.  1 year ago: "Yeah, we're all cool over here with whatever you want to do network-wise!"  Now: "This is unfair!  I'm going to the SEC because I'm a little bitch!"
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Offline AbeFroman

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14019 on: September 21, 2011, 05:22:39 PM »
crap, I mean it is ridiculous.  1 year ago: "Yeah, we're all cool over here with whatever you want to do network-wise!"  Now: "This is unfair!  I'm going to the SEC because I'm a little bitch!"

No crap. Anyone who didn't see Texas trying to use a network for an advantage on recruiting (and making a billion more $$ than their conference foes) is a full on respect. I can't imagine every other AD/Prez/BoR was this retarded. That's a lot of retarded people.

Offline TheHamburglar

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14020 on: September 21, 2011, 05:28:48 PM »
Also... (sitting here thinking)... all the Okie's are saying their leverage is not as strong since the announcement from the PAC, which I suppose is true, but on the other hand, really what leverage does TX have at this point? Who else in the conference do they have to convince to make these reforms other than TX??

Ironically, it doesn't seem as if TX has much leverage right now either because they've publicly said they favor staying in the BigXII, the PAC bridge seems burned (at least for now), ACC doesn't seem interested (plus kind of a weird move geographically), and they really don't want to be an independent. So a stable Big XII is the best option for TX by quite a large margin, so they basically have to concede everything within that margin, and realize that's the best they're gonna get, amirite?

 :kstategrad:

Texas' leverage is that they can keep doing the exact same thing they are doing now.  They don't need anything to change in order to get what they want.  OU has nowhere to go because they can't go anywhere without OSU, and OSU can't get into the SEC.  There is nothing OU can do to stop the LHN from airing the UT-KU game this year and 3 conference b-ball games.  Is the Big12 going to sue ESPN? No.  What is going to keep Texas from airing high school highlights?  UT's legal stance is that they are allowed to do it, that this was part of the original conception of the LHN when everyone in the Big12 decided to allow school networks.  UT will do want they want until OU leaves or sues.  There is no hard and fast rule in the Big12 that doesn't allow them to do these things, and I'm not sure the Big12 has the legal power to implement them now. 

If OU is serious, a simple vote among the schools could give them all of their demands. It doesn't take a unanimous vote to change revenue distribution or other conference rules. Texas will either have to deal with the results or leave.

Yeah, we can change the rules within the Big12, but those rules don't affect the UT-ESPN contract.  It's not just UT that OU is trying to affect, its also ESPN.  I highly doubt that ESPN will let the Big12 dictate the content they can show on the LHN.  If the Big12 forces content reduction on LHN ESPN will fight to reduce the $ to UT.  If UT led ESPN to believe that they could show high school content and multiple games when the contract was signed I'm sure ESPN would claim breach of contract.   
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Offline Acceleration Man

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14021 on: September 21, 2011, 05:45:09 PM »
Also... (sitting here thinking)... all the Okie's are saying their leverage is not as strong since the announcement from the PAC, which I suppose is true, but on the other hand, really what leverage does TX have at this point? Who else in the conference do they have to convince to make these reforms other than TX??

Ironically, it doesn't seem as if TX has much leverage right now either because they've publicly said they favor staying in the BigXII, the PAC bridge seems burned (at least for now), ACC doesn't seem interested (plus kind of a weird move geographically), and they really don't want to be an independent. So a stable Big XII is the best option for TX by quite a large margin, so they basically have to concede everything within that margin, and realize that's the best they're gonna get, amirite?

 :kstategrad:

Texas' leverage is that they can keep doing the exact same thing they are doing now.  They don't need anything to change in order to get what they want.  OU has nowhere to go because they can't go anywhere without OSU, and OSU can't get into the SEC.  There is nothing OU can do to stop the LHN from airing the UT-KU game this year and 3 conference b-ball games.  Is the Big12 going to sue ESPN? No.  What is going to keep Texas from airing high school highlights?  UT's legal stance is that they are allowed to do it, that this was part of the original conception of the LHN when everyone in the Big12 decided to allow school networks.  UT will do want they want until OU leaves or sues.  There is no hard and fast rule in the Big12 that doesn't allow them to do these things, and I'm not sure the Big12 has the legal power to implement them now.  

If OU is serious, a simple vote among the schools could give them all of their demands. It doesn't take a unanimous vote to change revenue distribution or other conference rules. Texas will either have to deal with the results or leave.

Yeah, we can change the rules within the Big12, but those rules don't affect the UT-ESPN contract.  It's not just UT that OU is trying to affect, its also ESPN.  I highly doubt that ESPN will let the Big12 dictate the content they can show on the LHN.  If the Big12 forces content reduction on LHN ESPN will fight to reduce the $ to UT.  If UT led ESPN to believe that they could show high school content and multiple games when the contract was signed I'm sure ESPN would claim breach of contract.  

Regardless of TV contracts.... the conference's 8 other members can dictate rules for the conference as a whole (which then apply to TX), and TX relents because they have no other choice. Seems pretty simple to me.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 05:46:45 PM by Acceleration Man »

Offline TheHamburglar

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14022 on: September 21, 2011, 05:47:30 PM »
Also... (sitting here thinking)... all the Okie's are saying their leverage is not as strong since the announcement from the PAC, which I suppose is true, but on the other hand, really what leverage does TX have at this point? Who else in the conference do they have to convince to make these reforms other than TX??

Ironically, it doesn't seem as if TX has much leverage right now either because they've publicly said they favor staying in the BigXII, the PAC bridge seems burned (at least for now), ACC doesn't seem interested (plus kind of a weird move geographically), and they really don't want to be an independent. So a stable Big XII is the best option for TX by quite a large margin, so they basically have to concede everything within that margin, and realize that's the best they're gonna get, amirite?

 :kstategrad:

Texas' leverage is that they can keep doing the exact same thing they are doing now.  They don't need anything to change in order to get what they want.  OU has nowhere to go because they can't go anywhere without OSU, and OSU can't get into the SEC.  There is nothing OU can do to stop the LHN from airing the UT-KU game this year and 3 conference b-ball games.  Is the Big12 going to sue ESPN? No.  What is going to keep Texas from airing high school highlights?  UT's legal stance is that they are allowed to do it, that this was part of the original conception of the LHN when everyone in the Big12 decided to allow school networks.  UT will do want they want until OU leaves or sues.  There is no hard and fast rule in the Big12 that doesn't allow them to do these things, and I'm not sure the Big12 has the legal power to implement them now. 

If OU is serious, a simple vote among the schools could give them all of their demands. It doesn't take a unanimous vote to change revenue distribution or other conference rules. Texas will either have to deal with the results or leave.

Yeah, we can change the rules within the Big12, but those rules don't affect the UT-ESPN contract.  It's not just UT that OU is trying to affect, its also ESPN.  I highly doubt that ESPN will let the Big12 dictate the content they can show on the LHN.  If the Big12 forces content reduction on LHN ESPN will fight to reduce the $ to UT.  If UT led ESPN to believe that they could show high school content and multiple games when the contract was signed I'm sure ESPN would claim breach of contract.   

Regardless of TV contracts.... the conference's 8 other members can dictate rules for the conference as a whole (which then apply to TX), and TX relents because they have no other choice. Seems pretty simple to me.

I just don't think Texas can relent without backlash from ESPN on the LHN contract.  The question is who has more contractual power over UT, the Big12 or ESPN.  I don't know the answer to that.  My opinion is that it's ESPN because that puts more money in UT's pockets.  I just don't know which contract takes precedence or wording/power of the UT-Big12 contract.  Either way UT has problems that I don't think are going to go away easily.  I don't think they can just give in to OU/Big12 without ESPN problems.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 05:54:01 PM by TheHamburglar »
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Offline mcmwcat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14023 on: September 21, 2011, 06:27:48 PM »

Lowering the field usually sucks because it changes the sight lines for the existing seats.

Even when the current front row is super far back because of a dumb track?  Seems like they could keep the grade of the stadium exactly the same as it descends to the new field level.  
 :dunno:   <--non-architect shrug

uh.  yeah.  lowering the field would provide for better sight lines.

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #14024 on: September 21, 2011, 06:32:00 PM »

Lowering the field usually sucks because it changes the sight lines for the existing seats.

Even when the current front row is super far back because of a dumb track?  Seems like they could keep the grade of the stadium exactly the same as it descends to the new field level.  
 :dunno:   <--non-architect shrug

uh.  yeah.  lowering the field would provide for better sight lines.



This, but exactly the opposite.