Author Topic: _FANframes: Locked In  (Read 1778 times)

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Offline ksu_FAN

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_FANframes: Locked In
« on: September 30, 2013, 01:43:37 PM »
A breakdown of Lockett's big game in Austin: http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=3048


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Offline kslim

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Re: _FANframes: Locked In
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2013, 02:18:07 PM »
want the best for tlbl, good write up
@kslimlb3

Offline kostakio

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Re: _FANframes: Locked In
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2013, 02:52:26 PM »
A breakdown of Lockett's big game in Austin: http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=3048

great stuff thanks!  I'd be curious to see a similar analysis on the run game.  Specifically why the f is it so ineffective with Waters in the game?  Is the o-line just playing that poorly?   

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Re: _FANframes: Locked In
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2013, 03:09:01 PM »
Another great one from the bitb.

_FAN, in analyzing this game did you get the feeling the that waters failed to go through the necessary progressions and "Locked In" on his chosen receiver as seems to be the perception?

Offline ksu_FAN

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Re: _FANframes: Locked In
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2013, 04:08:28 PM »
Another great one from the bitb.

_FAN, in analyzing this game did you get the feeling the that waters failed to go through the necessary progressions and "Locked In" on his chosen receiver as seems to be the perception?

In this game there was no evidence of that. There would be forced throws and I didn't really think he forced any to Lockett. IMO he just made a lot of good reads and a lot of good throws.

Waters is not great at running, especially speed option, but he's solid and getting better every week in the passing game.

Offline Frankenklein

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Re: _FANframes: Locked In
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2013, 04:31:20 PM »
A breakdown of Lockett's big game in Austin: http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=3048

great stuff thanks!  I'd be curious to see a similar analysis on the run game.  Specifically why the f is it so ineffective with Waters in the game?  Is the o-line just playing that poorly?
The O-line had a huge hole opened for Waters when he butt fumbled at the goal line

Offline eastcat

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Re: _FANframes: Locked In
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2013, 05:08:45 PM »
Another great one from the bitb.

_FAN, in analyzing this game did you get the feeling the that waters failed to go through the necessary progressions and "Locked In" on his chosen receiver as seems to be the perception?

In this game there was no evidence of that. There would be forced throws and I didn't really think he forced any to Lockett. IMO he just made a lot of good reads and a lot of good throws.

Waters is not great at running, especially speed option, but he's solid and getting better every week in the passing game.

Zomg! Waters doing something 'good'? Not possible.
Quote from: Kim Carnes
Jake Waters and Will Spradling give us the best chance to win. Daniel Sams can't throw and Jevon Thomas isn't even smart enough to qualify, let alone learn HCBW's offense.

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Re: _FANframes: Locked In
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2013, 05:13:31 PM »
Waters will be a fantastic College QB if we give up on him running the football like Collin Klein. It is only going to frustrate him and he will get beat up (just like Klein).

Instead of that, we should have him do direct handoffs to Demarcus Robinson, Play action Passes, QB draws and throw the ball 40+ times per game.

He is completing 67% (28th in the country) and is getting 9.5 yards per pass (14th in the country).

I would enjoy seeing 70% of our gameplan be Waters and then see Sams the other 30% with Hubert (throwing the ball 1 out of 5 times or so)
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Offline ksu_FAN

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Re: _FANframes: Locked In
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2013, 08:34:10 AM »
Waters will be a fantastic College QB if we give up on him running the football like Collin Klein. It is only going to frustrate him and he will get beat up (just like Klein).

Instead of that, we should have him do direct handoffs to Demarcus Robinson, Play action Passes, QB draws and throw the ball 40+ times per game.

He is completing 67% (28th in the country) and is getting 9.5 yards per pass (14th in the country).

I would enjoy seeing 70% of our gameplan be Waters and then see Sams the other 30% with Hubert (throwing the ball 1 out of 5 times or so)

I agree with Snyder to an extent that Waters has to be a threat running the football, and I think he can do that. But don't ask him to run stuff that he isn't good at (especially speed option). For example, in the Texas game with Waters on the field K-State gained 58 yards on 20 carries on run play calls (not including sacks/scrambles). However, if you remove 7 speed option calls that gained -2 yards, K-State gained 60 rushing yards on 13 carries; 4 carries for 36 yards for Hubert and 9 for 24 for Waters (including 1 QB sneak). IMO the running game can become more efficient with Waters in the game if the staff evaluates play calling and puts Waters (and the team) in a more successful situation to run the ball.

IMO the past K-State quarterback that compares favorably to Waters is Matt Miller. Miller was the starter for his SR season and completed 64% of his passes, averaged 8.4 yards per attempt, and had 22 TDs to 11 INTs. Also rushed for 309 yards and averaged 2.4 yards per carry; so hardly a dynamic running threat; but skill set wise and athletically I'd say Waters is very similar to him. Miller threw the ball 1.9 times for every time he carried it; currently Waters is throwing 2.4 times for every carry, so that's not a terrible ratio. K-State had a solid running back duo with Hickson and Lawrence and 3 very good receivers in Lockett, Schweiger, and Running. That team ran the ball 63% of the time and threw it 37%, but only averaged 3.6 yards per carry. Offensively this team could potentially be very similar to that one if Waters plays the majority of the snaps at QB. This team won't be as good as that one because that one also possessed a great defense, but I think the offensive make up (and success) could be similar to that team.

Offline MadCat

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Re: _FANframes: Locked In
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2013, 09:07:30 AM »
Is speed option still effective with a fast QB? 

Offline TownieCat

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Re: _FANframes: Locked In
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2013, 09:12:07 AM »
Waters will be a fantastic College QB if we give up on him running the football like Collin Klein. It is only going to frustrate him and he will get beat up (just like Klein).

Instead of that, we should have him do direct handoffs to Demarcus Robinson, Play action Passes, QB draws and throw the ball 40+ times per game.

He is completing 67% (28th in the country) and is getting 9.5 yards per pass (14th in the country).

I would enjoy seeing 70% of our gameplan be Waters and then see Sams the other 30% with Hubert (throwing the ball 1 out of 5 times or so)

 :crossfingers:

Offline ksu_FAN

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Re: _FANframes: Locked In
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2013, 09:21:37 AM »
Is speed option still effective with a fast QB? 

It can be, but the back is just as important. We had some success with Klein because he could cut up underneath the QB defender and power his way to some yardage and he was good at waiting until the last moment to pitch. Waters pitches the ball way too early which allows the defense to recover, plus Hubert isn't a burner so its tough for him to get the edge. Also, Wilson was very good at blocking the edge for speed option and Gronk has struggled to execute that block, though this wasn't the problem against Texas because we only ran speed option from 1 back sets.

Offline unleashthemob

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Re: _FANframes: Locked In
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2013, 10:24:37 AM »
Waters will be a fantastic College QB if we give up on him running the football like Collin Klein. It is only going to frustrate him and he will get beat up (just like Klein).

Instead of that, we should have him do direct handoffs to Demarcus Robinson, Play action Passes, QB draws and throw the ball 40+ times per game.

He is completing 67% (28th in the country) and is getting 9.5 yards per pass (14th in the country).

I would enjoy seeing 70% of our gameplan be Waters and then see Sams the other 30% with Hubert (throwing the ball 1 out of 5 times or so)
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Offline PIPE

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Re: _FANframes: Locked In
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2013, 10:34:43 AM »
Waters will be a fantastic College QB if we give up on him running the football like Collin Klein. It is only going to frustrate him and he will get beat up (just like Klein).

Instead of that, we should have him do direct handoffs to Demarcus Robinson, Play action Passes, QB draws and throw the ball 40+ times per game.

He is completing 67% (28th in the country) and is getting 9.5 yards per pass (14th in the country).

I would enjoy seeing 70% of our gameplan be Waters and then see Sams the other 30% with Hubert (throwing the ball 1 out of 5 times or so)

I agree with Snyder to an extent that Waters has to be a threat running the football, and I think he can do that. But don't ask him to run stuff that he isn't good at (especially speed option). For example, in the Texas game with Waters on the field K-State gained 58 yards on 20 carries on run play calls (not including sacks/scrambles). However, if you remove 7 speed option calls that gained -2 yards, K-State gained 60 rushing yards on 13 carries; 4 carries for 36 yards for Hubert and 9 for 24 for Waters (including 1 QB sneak). IMO the running game can become more efficient with Waters in the game if the staff evaluates play calling and puts Waters (and the team) in a more successful situation to run the ball.

IMO the past K-State quarterback that compares favorably to Waters is Matt Miller. Miller was the starter for his SR season and completed 64% of his passes, averaged 8.4 yards per attempt, and had 22 TDs to 11 INTs. Also rushed for 309 yards and averaged 2.4 yards per carry; so hardly a dynamic running threat; but skill set wise and athletically I'd say Waters is very similar to him. Miller threw the ball 1.9 times for every time he carried it; currently Waters is throwing 2.4 times for every carry, so that's not a terrible ratio. K-State had a solid running back duo with Hickson and Lawrence and 3 very good receivers in Lockett, Schweiger, and Running. That team ran the ball 63% of the time and threw it 37%, but only averaged 3.6 yards per carry. Offensively this team could potentially be very similar to that one if Waters plays the majority of the snaps at QB. This team won't be as good as that one because that one also possessed a great defense, but I think the offensive make up (and success) could be similar to that team.


OMG, just had a college flashback....

was in Lucky's parting it up, me and my buddies standing in a circle, and Mitch Running just had to walk through our circle (I did not know who he was) and knocked my draft beer out of my hands, shattering it on the floor.  I looked at him as he was walking away, waiting for an apology, and when none came, I said  "what an a**hole ".....as I said that he was walking away, but I was looking in his direction, and some big ol dude  (assuming now must have been an OL guy) thought I was talking to him. I said no, and pointed to Running...this big dude said, "ya, we all think he is a big a**hole too, let me tell him you said that".

That's when my buddies said, "that's the football team, let's get out of here!". We bailed.

Another one of my buddies was on the other side of the football team and told me the next day he heard all the guys egging Running on to go kick my ass, and eventually they all went outside Lucky's looking for me...

Jeesh that would have been bad.....
Awaiting the inevitable KITN

Offline MadCat

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Re: _FANframes: Locked In
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2013, 10:55:42 AM »
Is speed option still effective with a fast QB? 

It can be, but the back is just as important. We had some success with Klein because he could cut up underneath the QB defender and power his way to some yardage and he was good at waiting until the last moment to pitch. Waters pitches the ball way too early which allows the defense to recover, plus Hubert isn't a burner so its tough for him to get the edge. Also, Wilson was very good at blocking the edge for speed option and Gronk has struggled to execute that block, though this wasn't the problem against Texas because we only ran speed option from 1 back sets.

Yeah, pitching too early seems like a dick move on Jake's part.  I wonder how Hubert feels about it.

Offline pissclams

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Re: _FANframes: Locked In
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2013, 11:46:07 AM »
Waters will be a fantastic College QB if we give up on him running the football like Collin Klein. It is only going to frustrate him and he will get beat up (just like Klein).

Instead of that, we should have him do direct handoffs to Demarcus Robinson, Play action Passes, QB draws and throw the ball 40+ times per game.

He is completing 67% (28th in the country) and is getting 9.5 yards per pass (14th in the country).

I would enjoy seeing 70% of our gameplan be Waters and then see Sams the other 30% with Hubert (throwing the ball 1 out of 5 times or so)

I agree with Snyder to an extent that Waters has to be a threat running the football, and I think he can do that. But don't ask him to run stuff that he isn't good at (especially speed option). For example, in the Texas game with Waters on the field K-State gained 58 yards on 20 carries on run play calls (not including sacks/scrambles). However, if you remove 7 speed option calls that gained -2 yards, K-State gained 60 rushing yards on 13 carries; 4 carries for 36 yards for Hubert and 9 for 24 for Waters (including 1 QB sneak). IMO the running game can become more efficient with Waters in the game if the staff evaluates play calling and puts Waters (and the team) in a more successful situation to run the ball.

IMO the past K-State quarterback that compares favorably to Waters is Matt Miller. Miller was the starter for his SR season and completed 64% of his passes, averaged 8.4 yards per attempt, and had 22 TDs to 11 INTs. Also rushed for 309 yards and averaged 2.4 yards per carry; so hardly a dynamic running threat; but skill set wise and athletically I'd say Waters is very similar to him. Miller threw the ball 1.9 times for every time he carried it; currently Waters is throwing 2.4 times for every carry, so that's not a terrible ratio. K-State had a solid running back duo with Hickson and Lawrence and 3 very good receivers in Lockett, Schweiger, and Running. That team ran the ball 63% of the time and threw it 37%, but only averaged 3.6 yards per carry. Offensively this team could potentially be very similar to that one if Waters plays the majority of the snaps at QB. This team won't be as good as that one because that one also possessed a great defense, but I think the offensive make up (and success) could be similar to that team.


OMG, just had a college flashback....

was in Lucky's parting it up, me and my buddies standing in a circle, and Mitch Running just had to walk through our circle (I did not know who he was) and knocked my draft beer out of my hands, shattering it on the floor.  I looked at him as he was walking away, waiting for an apology, and when none came, I said  "what an a**hole ".....as I said that he was walking away, but I was looking in his direction, and some big ol dude  (assuming now must have been an OL guy) thought I was talking to him. I said no, and pointed to Running...this big dude said, "ya, we all think he is a big a**hole too, let me tell him you said that".

That's when my buddies said, "that's the football team, let's get out of here!". We bailed.

Another one of my buddies was on the other side of the football team and told me the next day he heard all the guys egging Running on to go kick my ass, and eventually they all went outside Lucky's looking for me...

Jeesh that would have been bad.....

i hate to ruin your moment but mitch running was a nice guy.  i bet you deserved to lose your beer.


Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

New warning: Don't get in a fight with someone who doesn't even need to bother to buy ink.

Offline ksu_FAN

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Re: _FANframes: Locked In
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2013, 11:52:44 AM »
i hate to ruin your moment but mitch running was a nice guy.  i bet you deserved to lose your beer.

I have to admit, for a moment I thought bricks and dogs were about to be involved in this story...

Offline pissclams

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Re: _FANframes: Locked In
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2013, 11:57:48 AM »
i'm guessing the O-lineman was todd weiner, him and mitch, a couple of America's Most Wanted thug life gangstaz


Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

New warning: Don't get in a fight with someone who doesn't even need to bother to buy ink.

Offline PIPE

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Re: _FANframes: Locked In
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2013, 02:14:02 PM »
Didn't ever say Mitch running wasn't a nice guy...only encounter I ever had w/ him.  Never would have guessed him to be a football player, was my size.....

Anyway's, he did walk right through our circle and he did knock my draft bear out of my hands....when you are a poor college kid and you scrape by to purchase alcohol, that was a meltdown moment for me....

I would have been all like  :comehere: w/ Running, but get a big ol OL dude involved, and I am running away :Crybaby:
Awaiting the inevitable KITN

Offline Mr Bread

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Re: _FANframes: Locked In
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2013, 04:19:34 PM »
Didn't ever say Mitch running wasn't a nice guy...only encounter I ever had w/ him.  Never would have guessed him to be a football player, was my size.....

Anyway's, he did walk right through our circle and he did knock my draft bear out of my hands....when you are a poor college kid and you scrape by to purchase alcohol, that was a meltdown moment for me....

I would have been all like  :comehere: w/ Running, but get a big ol OL dude involved, and I am running away :Crybaby:

Mitch Running would have wrecked your crap, pipe.  Don't front.       
My prescience is fully engorged.  It throbs with righteous accuracy.  I am sated.