Author Topic: And it begins...  (Read 65156 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline FuzzyWuzzy

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 438
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #350 on: April 09, 2013, 11:01:37 PM »
sorry, was looking at minute %.  multiply by 1.26

Offline FuzzyWuzzy

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 438
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #351 on: April 09, 2013, 11:06:15 PM »
i will return when the alcohol has left me

Offline FuzzyWuzzy

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 438
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #352 on: April 09, 2013, 11:18:40 PM »
No, it's the best way. Points per possession is also a much better way to compare players than points per minute.

ok, JO had 3 times as many possessions as Bennett.  so multiply all Bennett's season totals by 3 if it makes you happy.

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40472
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #353 on: April 09, 2013, 11:19:51 PM »
you just have to have some sense of how the numbers translate to the visual.  8% is more than just a guy that has no moves, it's someone that is actively avoiding shooting.  like art could throw him a dob and he'd refuse to dob it and kick it out instead.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline FuzzyWuzzy

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 438
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #354 on: April 09, 2013, 11:45:03 PM »
No, it's the best way. Points per possession is also a much better way to compare players than points per minute.

ok, JO had 3 times as many possessions as Bennett.  so multiply all Bennett's season totals by 3 if it makes you happy.

actually, here's the per possession breakdown.  # of possessions is of course approximated and all numbers below are SeasonTotals/SeasonPossessions.  sorry for the awful formatting:

                    JO          Bennett
Points:         .93           .99 
FGM:           .41           .34 
FGA:            .81           .70 
FTM:            .17           .25   
FTA:            .43            .5   
Reb:            .99            1.25
O.Reb:         .45            .41 
D.Reb:         .54            .84   
Asst:           .08             .14 
TO:             .16             .20 
Steal:          .04             .04
Block:          .39             .89    :sdeek:
Fouls:          .48             .93   :lol:

Bennett was prolific at blocking shots and committing fouls.  He was also somewhat better at rebounding.  Otherwise, the two were pretty similar.  So...why was one a pariah and the other an adorable hero whose loss I should be mourning?  i just don't get it

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 37049
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #355 on: April 10, 2013, 12:00:27 AM »
No, it's the best way. Points per possession is also a much better way to compare players than points per minute.

ok, JO had 3 times as many possessions as Bennett.  so multiply all Bennett's season totals by 3 if it makes you happy.

actually, here's the per possession breakdown.  # of possessions is of course approximated and all numbers below are SeasonTotals/SeasonPossessions.  sorry for the awful formatting:

                    JO          Bennett
Points:         .93           .99 
FGM:           .41           .34 
FGA:            .81           .70 
FTM:            .17           .25   
FTA:            .43            .5   
Reb:            .99            1.25
O.Reb:         .45            .41 
D.Reb:         .54            .84   
Asst:           .08             .14 
TO:             .16             .20 
Steal:          .04             .04
Block:          .39             .89    :sdeek:
Fouls:          .48             .93   :lol:

Bennett was prolific at blocking shots and committing fouls.  He was also somewhat better at rebounding.  Otherwise, the two were pretty similar.  So...why was one a pariah and the other an adorable hero whose loss I should be mourning?  i just don't get it

It looks like it took one of them, on average, less than 6 possessions to foul out of the game.

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53675
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #356 on: April 10, 2013, 12:03:02 AM »
No, it's the best way. Points per possession is also a much better way to compare players than points per minute.

ok, JO had 3 times as many possessions as Bennett.  so multiply all Bennett's season totals by 3 if it makes you happy.

actually, here's the per possession breakdown.  # of possessions is of course approximated and all numbers below are SeasonTotals/SeasonPossessions.  sorry for the awful formatting:

                    JO          Bennett
Points:         .93           .99 
FGM:           .41           .34 
FGA:            .81           .70 
FTM:            .17           .25   
FTA:            .43            .5   
Reb:            .99            1.25
O.Reb:         .45            .41 
D.Reb:         .54            .84   
Asst:           .08             .14 
TO:             .16             .20 
Steal:          .04             .04
Block:          .39             .89    :sdeek:
Fouls:          .48             .93   :lol:

Bennett was prolific at blocking shots and committing fouls.  He was also somewhat better at rebounding.  Otherwise, the two were pretty similar.  So...why was one a pariah and the other an adorable hero whose loss I should be mourning?  i just don't get it

It looks like it took one of them, on average, less than 6 possessions to foul out of the game.

yeah his math isn't close to right (and I really don't know what he's trying to say, anyway). He should just be ignored on this subject.

Offline FuzzyWuzzy

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 438
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #357 on: April 10, 2013, 12:10:44 AM »
No, it's the best way. Points per possession is also a much better way to compare players than points per minute.

ok, JO had 3 times as many possessions as Bennett.  so multiply all Bennett's season totals by 3 if it makes you happy.

actually, here's the per possession breakdown.  # of possessions is of course approximated and all numbers below are SeasonTotals/SeasonPossessions.  sorry for the awful formatting:

                    JO          Bennett
Points:         .93           .99 
FGM:           .41           .34 
FGA:            .81           .70 
FTM:            .17           .25   
FTA:            .43            .5   
Reb:            .99            1.25
O.Reb:         .45            .41 
D.Reb:         .54            .84   
Asst:           .08             .14 
TO:             .16             .20 
Steal:          .04             .04
Block:          .39             .89    :sdeek:
Fouls:          .48             .93   :lol:

Bennett was prolific at blocking shots and committing fouls.  He was also somewhat better at rebounding.  Otherwise, the two were pretty similar.  So...why was one a pariah and the other an adorable hero whose loss I should be mourning?  i just don't get it

It looks like it took one of them, on average, less than 6 possessions to foul out of the game.

yea, and it took the other 10. whoopie!  but that does bring up the fact that the #possessions estimate appears to be inaccurate for individual players.  otherwise, the possessions that JO was in for were 3 minutes long and Bennett's were 6 minutes long.  i know for teams they use FGAs - Offrebs + TOs + (0.475 x FTAs) to calculate possesions.  i'm not sure how they get to individual players from there.  if you find more accurate individual possession numbers, let me know

Offline FuzzyWuzzy

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 438
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #358 on: April 10, 2013, 12:11:20 AM »
yeah his math isn't close to right (and I really don't know what he's trying to say, anyway). He should just be ignored on this subject.

my math is right if you trust statsheet :dunno:

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53675
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #359 on: April 10, 2013, 12:14:12 AM »
um, I don't think bennett averaged 1.25 rebounds per possession. If you can show me a link on statsheet that says he did, I may not trust statsheet. Until then, it's you.

Offline FuzzyWuzzy

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 438
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #360 on: April 10, 2013, 12:17:28 AM »
um, I don't think bennett averaged 1.25 rebounds per possession. If you can show me a link on statsheet that says he did, I may not trust statsheet. Until then, it's you.

please see my post above about #possessions reported by statsheet.  earlier, i posted links where you can divide the 2 numbers yourself to get rebounds per possession

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 37049
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #361 on: April 10, 2013, 12:21:29 AM »
um, I don't think bennett averaged 1.25 rebounds per possession. If you can show me a link on statsheet that says he did, I may not trust statsheet. Until then, it's you.

please see my post above about #possessions reported by statsheet.  earlier, i posted links where you can divide the 2 numbers yourself to get rebounds per possession

That formula is for calculating a team's total possessions over the course of a game. Where are you finding the box score statistics for only the minutes Jason Bennett was in the game?

Offline FuzzyWuzzy

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 438
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #362 on: April 10, 2013, 12:31:34 AM »
um, I don't think bennett averaged 1.25 rebounds per possession. If you can show me a link on statsheet that says he did, I may not trust statsheet. Until then, it's you.

please see my post above about #possessions reported by statsheet.  earlier, i posted links where you can divide the 2 numbers yourself to get rebounds per possession

That formula is for calculating a team's total possessions over the course of a game. Where are you finding the box score statistics for only the minutes Jason Bennett was in the game?

holy crap, i've already explained this.  I used the arithmetic expression SeasonTotal/SeasonPossessions to calculate per-possession statistics based on the data at statsheet.  Now, to do this I interpreted the individual statistic labelled by the term "possessions" to mean the number of possessions played by a player, because that is most consistent with the definition given for the team statistic which is also called "possessions."  maybe i jumped the gun with this assumption.  definitions can be found here:  http://statsheet.com/basketball_stats_glossary

The individual statistic called "possessions" might have nothing to do with the team statistic called "possessions" but it does not say so explicitly, so I assumed they are related somehow.  Obviously I don't know the answer to this "possessions" mystery, or I would have said so.  Obviously the  Statsheet website does not explain, or I would have read it and relayed the information to you.

if you want me to type another redundant post, i'll be happy to comply.  if you want to help me understand what they mean by the individual "possessions" statistic, i would be grateful for your help.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 12:39:46 AM by FuzzyWuzzy »

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 37049
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #363 on: April 10, 2013, 01:02:22 AM »
um, I don't think bennett averaged 1.25 rebounds per possession. If you can show me a link on statsheet that says he did, I may not trust statsheet. Until then, it's you.

please see my post above about #possessions reported by statsheet.  earlier, i posted links where you can divide the 2 numbers yourself to get rebounds per possession

That formula is for calculating a team's total possessions over the course of a game. Where are you finding the box score statistics for only the minutes Jason Bennett was in the game?

holy crap, i've already explained this.  I used the arithmetic expression SeasonTotal/SeasonPossessions to calculate per-possession statistics based on the data at statsheet.  Now, to do this I interpreted the individual statistic labelled by the term "possessions" to mean the number of possessions played by a player, because that is most consistent with the definition given for the team statistic which is also called "possessions."  maybe i jumped the gun with this assumption.  definitions can be found here:  http://statsheet.com/basketball_stats_glossary

The individual statistic called "possessions" might have nothing to do with the team statistic called "possessions" but it does not say so explicitly, so I assumed they are related somehow.  Obviously I don't know the answer to this "possessions" mystery, or I would have said so.  Obviously the  Statsheet website does not explain, or I would have read it and relayed the information to you.

if you want me to type another redundant post, i'll be happy to comply.  if you want to help me understand what they mean by the individual "possessions" statistic, i would be grateful for your help.

Well, the stats just don't make sense, so I'm pretty sure "possessions" does not mean what you think it does. I can't find an explanation for "possessions" for individual statistics on statsheet, but basketball-reference.com says they are
Quote
Poss: Individual Possessions. Used when a player ends his team's possession, either by attempting a free throw or a field goal, grabbing an offensive rebound, making an assist, or committing a turnover
If that is how statsheet calculates them as well, then the possession statistic wouldn't really be the number of times a player's team had the basketball, which would make sense considering the strange numbers.

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 44805
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #364 on: April 10, 2013, 03:38:52 AM »
JFC Fuzzy Wuzzy :facepalm:

Also no one has told you that you should mourn the loss of JO and dislike Bennett, do whatever the hell you want to do, none of us care. If you don't like JO that's your problem, it seems pretty clear that you had the preconceived notion that JO and Bennett were the same player. The numbers didn't bear that out. Inventing ways to interpret stats and contriving others talking points to make yourself seem right is pretty dumb, IMHO. 

Offline kso_FAN

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 29506
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #365 on: April 10, 2013, 07:03:33 AM »
I'm not sure what happened here. Weird interaction.

Offline Mr Bread

  • We Gave You Bruce
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 7867
  • I've distressing news.
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #366 on: April 10, 2013, 07:08:14 AM »
I'm not sure what happened here. Weird interaction.

 :lol:
My prescience is fully engorged.  It throbs with righteous accuracy.  I am sated.

Offline kso_FAN

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 29506
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #367 on: April 10, 2013, 07:23:59 AM »
I'm not sure what happened here. Weird interaction.

 :lol:

I mean, there are some pretty decent per 100 possession resources available to look at around here. We all agree Bennett was pretty good at shot blocking, but not good at pretty much everything else related to basketball. It takes a huge reach to compare him and is a slap in the face to JO.

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 44805
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #368 on: April 10, 2013, 10:05:08 AM »
The hope is that FW comes back on here at some point after sleeping off the hangover and apologizes for being a drunken fool

Offline Panjandrum

  • 5 o'clock Shadow Enthusiast
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 11221
  • Amateur magician and certified locksmith.
    • View Profile
    • Bring on the Cats [An SB Nation Blog]
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #369 on: April 10, 2013, 12:23:28 PM »
We all agree Bennett was pretty good at shot blocking, but not good at pretty much everything else related to basketball.

I'm shocked that anyone ever could have thought otherwise.

Offline 420seriouscat69

  • Don't get zapped! #zap
  • Wackycat
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 63922
  • #1 rated - gE NFL Scout
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #370 on: April 10, 2013, 12:31:20 PM »
So Omari just tweeted 39 days till graduation. He could transfer and play right away, right? If one more leaves, it's gotta be him.

Offline GoodForAnother

  • It was all a scheme I used to read emaw magazine
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 6045
  • You hate to see this Mike
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #371 on: April 10, 2013, 12:41:46 PM »
bennett used to eat like 3 gargantuans from jimmy johns a day

that's a 1.0 gpsm (garg per square meal)
emaw

Offline SwiftCat

  • #LIFE
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 3618
  • Depth Charge
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #372 on: April 10, 2013, 02:12:00 PM »
bennett used to eat like 3 gargantuans from jimmy johns a day

that's a 1.0 gpsm (garg per square meal)

Are you counting the ones he finished (threw away, ate the whole thing, gave to a friend) or the ones he ordered? Because if it's the former you aren't accounting for the ones he left on the table at JJ's.

Offline yosh

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 1003
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #373 on: April 10, 2013, 08:00:47 PM »
I'm going to give Fuzzy Wuzzy the benefit of the doubt and say he let some horrible posting snowball on him and cloud his BBIQ judgement.  I think he's smarter than he looked in this thread. 

I do think it's interesting to compare the freshman years of the two though:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?jordan-henriguez-roberts=2009-2010&p1=jordan-henriguez-roberts&p2=jason-bennett&remove=curtis-kelly

I really hated to see Bennett go.  Was really a waste.

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 44805
    • View Profile
Re: And it begins...
« Reply #374 on: April 10, 2013, 09:32:42 PM »
I'm going to give Fuzzy Wuzzy the benefit of the doubt and say he let some horrible posting snowball on him and cloud his BBIQ judgement.  I think he's smarter than he looked in this thread. 

I do think it's interesting to compare the freshman years of the two though:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?jordan-henriguez-roberts=2009-2010&p1=jordan-henriguez-roberts&p2=jason-bennett&remove=curtis-kelly

I really hated to see Bennett go.  Was really a waste.

Its reasonable to assume that if Bennett stayed here for 4 years he could have been better than JO. If FW had said that no one would have objected.